EPA Fines for Reflashing ECUs

[Fred H.]

FYI, the EPA is now actively seeking out and fining shops that are reflashing ECUs for any vehicle with a VIN number. The fine is approximatly $4,830 for each ECU they have modified. Even bankrupcy isn't an option, there is no way around the fine. It looks like the days of ECU reflashing are over.

Several companies have already been fined millions and put out of business.

 

[Konehead34]

 

[2andblue]

Yikes - looked it up, no joke…

 

[big0red4224]

Sort of. Here's text from several of the actual Consent Agreements: Violation of

"Section 203(a)(3)(B) of CAA, 42 U.S.C. § 7522(a)(3)(B), prohibits any person from manufacturing, selling, offering to sell, or installing parts or components where a principal effect is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative a motor vehicle emission control device or element of 2 design, where the person knows or should know that the part is being offered for sale or installed for such use."

 

[big0red4224]

But ultimately it would be up to flashers to defend themselves, and many cannot afford to.

 

[Fred H.]

No sort of about it. It's real. Cobb tuning got fined $1milion. PFI Speed also got fined. Another company got fined $300K.

EPA Fines Tuning Company $300,000 for Producing and Selling Emissions Defeat Devices

The EPA and Department of Justice hope this ruling puts all tuning companies on notice.

www.thedrive.com

 

[Road Runner]

FYI, the EPA is now actively seeking out and fining shops that are reflashing ECUs for any vehicle with a VIN number. The fine is approximatly $4,830 for each ECU they have modified. Even bankrupcy isn't an option, there is no way around the fine. It looks like the days of ECU reflashing are over.

Several companies have already been fined millions and put out of business.

WOW! First I heard/learned of this ...

 

[zrxmax]

The "Draconians" are at it again... It reminds me of when VW got slapped for leaning out the AF mixture a while back which improved economy but raised NOX levels. or something like that...

The Fun Police aren't going away anytime soon... so... it will take a massive effort to reverse the powers that be to calm them down and let the 1% have fun with tuning proms that make driving more fun...

 

[big0red4224]

Fred, they’re not going after everyone, they’re going after flashers for emissions circumvention. I don’t think that’s right either, but if there’s no emissions bypass/delete/etc, they’ve no leg to stand on.

 

[mjsrmiller9825]

Oh crap! Am I too late?

 

[Fred H.]

Fred, they’re not going after everyone, they’re going after flashers for emissions circumvention. I don’t think that’s right either, but if there’s no emissions bypass/delete/etc, they’ve no leg to stand on.

Wanna bet? I know of one motorcycle reflashing business they have already shut down. Any remaining ones are taking a huge risk, and I suspect will also be shut down very soon. They are actually actively raiding shops.

 

[big0red4224]

Fred, no, I don’t wanna bet. How about citing an actual example of a shop that has been raided that hasn’t done circumvention work?

 

[Fred H.]

 

[Fred H.]

 

[Fred H.]

 

[Fred H.]

 

[Fred H.]

 

[Fred H.]

And if you still don't believe me, pick up the phone and call Brocks, or Guhl and ask them if they can reflash your motorcycle ECU and see what they say for yourself.

 

[big0red4224]

If you would like me to go through all of your examples, I will, but that would be very time consuming. Your very first example, ModBargains.com may not now, but definitely did sell header-back cat-less exhausts. https://web.archive.org/web/2016090...-works-2.5-inch-scca-legal-exhaust-camaro.htm

 

[zarticus]

How about companys that just flash an ECU but don't actually uninstall/install the ECU itself into a customers bike ?

 

[Fred H.]

Don't believe me, I don't really care. Folks can find out on their own the hard way.

 

[Fred H.]

How about companys that just flash an ECU but don't actually uninstall/install the ECU itself into a customers bike ?

Those are one of the major the ones they are going after. ANY modification to ANY parameters in a ECU have to be CERTIFIED through the EPA. Period. You can't even change a checksum bit.

 

[big0red4224]

Those are one of the major the ones they are going after. ANY modification to ANY parameters in a ECU have to be CERTIFIED through the EPA. Period. You can't even change a checksum bit.

Weird. Can’t find that statute or ruling. There’s lots of government vagueness, but nothing anywhere near that absolute.

Period?

 

[zarticus]

Kawasaki can't even see if a bike has been flashed . How are the Epa going to know ?. With my KDS I can't tell my Ecu has been flashed "or not ". I guess they will just go after the company doing the flashing if there is a paper trail or they get turned in by someone or maybe even "sting" operations to set up people. Here in Florida there is not even vehicle inspections never mind emission test. If the EPA has that much of a hair across their Ass you would think they would go after states for no emission testing. I wonder if a flasher made the customer sign a paper saying the ECU will only be installed on a track bike that might givethem some legal ground to help defend them ?. Freaking big brother SUCKS !

 

[Scary Harry]

Emissions bypass or not?
If I flash my ECU to remove an OEM flaw to remove a jerky throttle, is that an emissions bypass?

https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2020/01/14/epa-launches-crackdown-on-emissions-defeat-device-makers

 

[chrismpero]

In other news,Connecticut wants to pass this:

Plural

openstates.org

 

[Fred H.]

They aren't going after owners of vehicles, they are going after the companies doing tuning and making and selling modifications. Read for yourself. The ECU/ECM is the controlling point for all engine operating parameters that insure a vehicle is not polluting. Any modification to it requires it to be recertified through the EPA. The EPA has started ACTIVELY going after companies that do tuning. It started with the diesel trucks, but their scope has now widened to other vehicles, including motorcycles. If you don't believe me, pick up the phone and call the EPA and ask them for yourself.

Vehicles and Engines Imports Hotline​

Phone: 734-214-4100

EPA Issues Enforcement Alert on Emissions Tampering

In December, the EPA issued an Enforcement Alert regarding aftermarket defeat devices that bypass or render inoperative required emissions control systems.

ehsdailyadvisor.blr.com

Enforcement and Inspection, Special Topics in Environmental Management​

EPA Issues Enforcement Alert on Emissions Tampering​

By Lisa Whitley Coleman Mar 2, 2021 Enforcement and Inspection, Special Topics in Environmental Management
Updated: Mar 2, 2021



In December 2020, the EPA issued an Enforcement Alert regarding aftermarket defeat devices that “bypass or render inoperative required emissions control systems, resulting in significant increases in harmful air emissions” from motor vehicles and nonroad equipment.


Cristi Kerekes / Shutterstock.com
The EPA resolved more than 70 cases in the past 5 years involving prohibitions against tampering under Section 203(a)(3) of the Clean Air Act (CAA) and 40 CFR 1068.101(b).
The Agency “remains concerned that regulated entities are continuing to ignore” these prohibitions.
Specifically, the rules state that “emissions-related parts and elements of design must not be changed, including any part, device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle, non-road equipment, motor vehicle engine, or non-road engine by an Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) for the specific purpose of controlling emissions.”


The Agency’s rules cover a comprehensive list of elements of design, devices, and parts, including:

• The onboard diagnostic system (OBD);
• Diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs);
• Sensors for oxygen, oxides of nitrogen (NOx), ammonia, particulate matter (PM), urea quality, and exhaust gas temperature;
• Diesel particulate filters (DPFs) and their sensors;
• Exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) systems;
• Diesel oxidation catalysts (DOCs);
• Selective catalytic reduction (SCR) systems;
• NOx adsorber catalyst (NAC) systems;
• Engine calibrations that affect engine combustion (e.g., fuel injection or ignition timing, injection pattern, fuel injection mass for each injection event, fuel injection pressure, EGR flowrate, mass air flowrate, and EGR cooler bypassing); and
• Any other part, device, or element of design installed on certified vehicles or engines in compliance with Title II of the CAA and its regulations, including parts and specifications included in the manufacturer’s tested prototype.

Section 203(a)(3) of the CAA is specific. Part B of this section clearly states it is a violation:
“ … for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to sell, or install, any part or component (i.e., ‘defeat device’) intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under Title II of the Clean Air Act, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put to such use.”
Part A of the 203(a)(3) statute further cements the violation, stating the prohibition against any person who knowingly removes or renders “inoperative (i.e., ‘tampering’) any such emissions control device or element of design.”

‘Reasonable Basis’ Is a Defense​

The EPA obviously focuses its enforcement efforts on devices that increase emissions. So, any person “who has a reasonable basis for knowing that use of such part will not adversely affect emissions performance” and who is involved in the manufacture, sale, or installation of aftermarket parts can claim the “reasonable basis” defense, provided he or she can show the device or modification will have no adverse impact on emissions in each of the following circumstances:

• The aftermarket part is identical in design and function to the part or component it replaced.
• The vehicle or engine, as modified, meets emissions standards when tested on the same tests the OEM used to certify the vehicle with the EPA.
• The California Air Resources Board (CARB) has issued an Executive Order (EO) that covers the same device or part on the same model vehicle on which the device or part was installed.

Costly Violations for Emissions Tampering​

The price tag for violations is steep—the maximum civil penalty is “$4,819 per defeat device manufactured, sold, or installed, or per vehicle tampered. A dealer or vehicle manufacturer who tampers with a vehicle may be subject to significantly higher civil penalties.”
For an example of the amount of penalties that can be applied in these types of cases, see the EPA information sheet on its settlement with Performance Diesel, Inc.
Companies whose operations involve these types of emissions-related devices are also advised to keep in mind that many states have additional regulations regarding these devices.
A previous defense was that the aftermarket defeat devices were produced for “competition only” use. The Agency had a practice of not enforcing these regulations against vehicles used solely for competition events. However, the EPA’s statistics show “that hundreds of thousands of diesel pickup trucks have had their emissions controls completely removed, and most or all the aftermarket defeat devices used to tamper these trucks were sold under the claim of ‘competition only.’ The sheer volume of aftermarket defeat devices belies the assertion that they are only for competition motorsports.”
The EPA has actively and strictly enforced actions against companies claiming “competition only” use. In the EPA’s action against Punch It Performance and Tuning, the company was required to stop manufacture and sale, turn over its intellectual property, and pay civil penalties to the tune of $850,000. That company further compounded its problems by transferring “real estate and monetary assets to one or more of the individual defendants in their personal capacities,” resulting in the EPA seeking further enforcement under the Federal Debt Collection Procedures Act.

 

[S Smith]

In other news,Connecticut wants to pass this:

Plural

openstates.org

Chris - after reading the proposed bill and the bill analysis document, I feel this is purely an attempt at a money grab on the backs of motorcyclists.

 

[chrismpero]

Chris - after reading the proposed bill and the bill analysis document, I feel this is purely an attempt at a money grab on the backs of motorcyclists.

Yes sir. We get taxed to death.

 

[big0red4224]

Thank you, Fred, for posting exactly what I was saying prior.


“Section 203(a)(3) of the CAA is specific. Part B of this section clearly states it is a violation:
“ … for any person to manufacture or sell, or offer to sell, or install, any part or component (i.e., ‘defeat device’) intended for use with, or as part of, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine, where a principal effect of the part or component is to bypass, defeat, or render inoperative any device or element of design installed on or in a motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine in compliance with regulations under Title II of the Clean Air Act, and where the person knows or should know that such part or component is being offered for sale or installed for such use or put to such use.”
Part A of the 203(a)(3) statute further cements the violation, stating the prohibition against any person who knowingly removes or renders “inoperative (i.e., ‘tampering’) any such emissions control device or element of design.”

‘Reasonable Basis’ Is a Defense​

The EPA obviously focuses its enforcement efforts on devices that increase emissions. So, any person “who has a reasonable basis for knowing that use of such part will not adversely affect emissions performance” and who is involved in the manufacture, sale, or installation of aftermarket parts can claim the “reasonable basis” defense, provided he or she can show the device or modification will have no adverse impact on emissions in each of the following circumstances:

• The aftermarket part is identical in design and function to the part or component it replaced.
• The vehicle or engine, as modified, meets emissions standards when tested on the same tests the OEM used to certify the vehicle with the EPA.”

 

[Fred H.]

No vehicle that has been reflashed and tuned for performance is going to meet the OEM certification tests and the onus to do the testing for recertification would be on the tuning shop at great expense. Vehicles are originally tuned to comply with EPA, retuning them for performance virtually insures they won't comply any more, thats how they get more power from them. I don't know why you're even arguing about this. The simple fact is that tuning shops are already shutting down because they know they can't comply.

 

[big0red4224]

As someone who has had multiple vehicles tuned, re-tuned, and even tuned myself, I can tell you that this statement is false. "retuning them for performance virtually insures they won't comply any more".

The crux of the matter is simple government overreach. The EPA is trying to push people out of this by being overly aggressive. The vast majority of tunes out there, often referred to as "Stage 1" or something similar, still meets all of the Clean Air requirements.

The statute does not say tuners have to test. It simply states that it has to meet standards when tested.

The government lives and dies on semantics.

If a tuner shuts down so they don't have to deal with the EPA, that's fine. But I can tell you the EPA will not win this in the end. The sky is not falling. We, as responsible owners, need to be aware of the bull that the EPA is trying to pull, so that we can tell our representatives, ACCURATELY, what the problem is.

Suggested reading: https://www.sema.org/epa-news

 

[texas.devops]

I find this very similar to what the ATF is doing with the redefinition of AR-pistols and the pistol braces. It's not much more than a money grab, as others have stated. They have absolutely zero statistics to show that crimes are being committed at an inordinately greater level by folks who tweak their pew-pews than by the lawless thugs who traffic drugs/humans/despair.

Gov't overreach is not actually reaching a zenith right now. It is something that happens in waves, characteristically under weak administrations. The ABC-agency leadership sees the oppty to take advantage so they get up on their high horses and start trying to legislate from the middle.

 

[Steve in sunny Fla]

Just one simple question... if there's only one way to tune to EPA compliance, why does the Concours have 2 tunes in the ECU from the factory?

Steve

 

[texas.devops]

Just one simple question... if there's only one way to tune to EPA compliance, why does the Concours have 2 tunes in the ECU from the factory?

Steve

VW-esque engineering Steve? LOL

Serious question: is one tune for Eco mode and the other for the non-Eco default?

 

[Steve in sunny Fla]

Serious question: is one tune for Eco mode and the other for the non-Eco default?

Correct. Heck, even our RAV4 has 2 different tune modes from the factory.

Steve

 

[FTB530]

Not something anybody is prepared for? You were breaking a law and you weren’t prepared to get caught you mean?

 

[Scary Harry]

Just one simple question... if there's only one way to tune to EPA compliance, why does the Concours have 2 tunes in the ECU from the factory?

Steve

I suspect the EPA gave them some wiggle room there. Like, if you meet this standard, you are in compliance. Anything better than that is icing on the cake.

So then, how do you prove you are making a cake to spec? And the icing to go with it?

 

[Steve in sunny Fla]

I suspect the EPA gave them some wiggle room there. Like, if you meet this standard, you are in compliance. Anything better than that is icing on the cake.

No, both maps would have to comply.I mean imagine if the eco map was a "gift" but mosty people used it because the average owner is "frugal". We use the ECO map on the rav4 all the time, it's only beein in sport mode to play around and see what it can do.

The bottom line is that there's alot of different ways to skin the cat.The idea that was floated previously was that aftermarket fueling needs to be richer. Factually, the factory tuning is often rich to keep the cats hot.

Here's another tidbit... the stock tuning on the Concours has more restrictive secondary throttles on the lower gears and more open throttles for higher gears. Do you think that was for EPA purposes? I don't, I think it was to keep the riders from killing themselves with to much acceleration early on. So not all the decisions made in the factory tune were done, IMO, for EPA compliance. As such, improvements can be made without messing up the a/f ratios the factory tuned to.
Steve

 

[Strawboss]

OK, so all this is for states where bikes are EPA emissions tested, is this correct?

 

[khager01]

Fred,

Unfortunately you are right. I had no idea they were cracking down on ECU reflashing, and if so I was hoping it would be limited to Diesel Trucks and Cars. Hoping that Motorcycles were too few to be on their radar, well that doesn't seem to be the case, look here on Guhl's website,

Fuel Injection Conversion - Guhl Motors

Fuel Injection Conversion Guhl Motors offers time-proven and race-winning methanol fuel injection conversions. PAGE UNDER CONSTRUCTION- MORE COMING SOON! Why Guhl? https://youtu.be/qWVfKM3ylMQ Don Guhl (#33) wins with the first ever methanol fuel injection conversion In the early 2000s, Don Guhl...

guhlmotors.com

 

[nickrides]

These 2 guys have been parked in front of my house all day in a panel van, dressed like the Blues Bros.
EPA?
I'm gonna throw a smoke bomb in there in a few minutes and see what happens.
Nick
2014 C-14

 

[maverick9611]

gonna watch this closely. not cool.

 

[Cra-z1000]

This will be devastating to a bunch of small businesses .

 

[connie_rider]

Fred put out good info. We should pay close attention.

I agree that there are multiple ways to program the bike that will pass an emissions test.
The ones in the stock ECU are not the only way to keep emissions (nor power) in line.
As Steve stated, the ECU's are programmed with a lot of things in mind.
I know that the edited program for our bikes, do keep the AFR values very close to stoichiometric.
{So I suspect that the bikes would pas, (or already are passing) emissions tests}

I also suspect that their primarily after the Diesels and Trucks that are putting out big volumes of emissions, and the big companies that are flooding the market with Programmers.

But big brother is out there, he wants his $$, and he likes his power.

Ride safe, Ted

 

[LSGiant]

Regarding multiple factory tunes. The manufacturer has to submit EPA compliance data for all tunes.

 

[Scary Harry]

These 2 guys have been parked in front of my house all day in a panel van, dressed like the Blues Bros.
EPA?
I'm gonna throw a smoke bomb in there in a few minutes and see what happens.
Nick
2014 C-14

 

[rogracer]

Clearly Flowers By Irene is the FBI.

 

[Steve in sunny Fla]

Fred,

Unfortunately you are right. I had no idea they were cracking down on ECU reflashing, and if so I was hoping it would be limited to Diesel Trucks and Cars. Hoping that Motorcycles were too few to be on their radar, well that doesn't seem to be the case, look here on Guhl's website,

Fuel Injection Conversion - Guhl Motors

Fuel Injection Conversion Guhl Motors offers time-proven and race-winning methanol fuel injection conversions. PAGE UNDER CONSTRUCTION- MORE COMING SOON! Why Guhl? https://youtu.be/qWVfKM3ylMQ Don Guhl (#33) wins with the first ever methanol fuel injection conversion In the early 2000s, Don Guhl...

guhlmotors.com

I called and spoke with Brock's. They are still flashing. "Business as usual". Maybe Fred has another source of information on them.

BTW... what folks don't know is that I have 02 sensor enabled flashes and have for over 3 years.

Steve

 

[funsize]

Clearly Flowers By Irene is the FBI.

Shhhhh, no one is supposed to know that is my job. LOL

 

[Scary Harry]

Clearly Flowers By Irene is the FBI.

 

[ursharkfuel]

This strays a little from the central theme, but is still on topic because it discusses the sources of these restrictions and raids.

I'm convinced the tree huggers will not be happy until all of us are living in high rise cubicles and taking mass transit to our government assigned jobs. They are after all the same folks making the new morality utopian world movies in Hollywood that preach this non-sense. If total government control and worship of the state is utopia.....I pray I don't live to see it!

Here in the People's Republic of California it has moved well beyond cars and trucks. Two-stroke engines were eliminated years ago and the California Air Resources Board (CARB) regulates down to small engine power equipment like weed whackers and lawnmowers. They even regulate BBQ grills and back yard fire pits for crying out loud. CARB This state has been actively considering a per mile use tax (and those we just sent to Washington) to stop those of us that live in the suburbs from commuting to work, never mind the fact gas taxes, vehicle registration taxes, and state add-on taxes built those roads we own but will need to pay to use like state and federal parks!

CARB Settles With OC-Based Kawasaki Over Clean-Air Allegations | KFI AM 640

More stimulating talk and news radio in Los Angeles and Orange County. Listen to Amy King, Bill Handel, Gary and Shannon, John Kobylt, Tim Conway Jr, Mo' Kelly, Coast to Coast AM, KFI News and more on KFI AM 640!

kfiam640.iheart.com

 

[maverick9611]

i thought it was taxafornia?

 

[Road Runner]

Shhhhh, no one is supposed to know that is my job. LOL

Lol, oops, "the cats out of the bag," so to speak, now

 

[ursharkfuel]

i thought it was taxafornia?

It is that as well.

 

[RICHKAWI]

In the future we may have to send our ECU's overseas to be flashed.
More work for China.

 

[horsenuts123]

I realize this is focused on flashing ECUs, but wouldn't it also apply to anything that would, or could, change the emissions of your vehicle? Exhausts, air filters, throttle bodies, etc. Except for tires, oil, and antifreeze you'd have to go to the dealership for oem everything...

 

[maverick9611]

 

[kv5e]

If a factory submits their vehicle for emissions certification and there are multiple modes of operation and they all pass then that is certification. That is why some vehicles have multiple options for engine performance.

In the long term, fossil fuel powered vehicles are the target for those who want to limit emissions into the atmosphere.

Until the leadership at the EPA changes, it looks like they are going "all in" on the niche markets that appeal to enthusiasts who modify their vehicles using third parties who receive pecuniary interest for making these changes.

 

[connie_rider]

(Maverick) Shhhhh!!

Err: Luckily, my bike is completely "stock".

Ride safe, Ted

 

[Just Cliff]

Err: Luckily, my bike is completely "stock".

Ride safe, Ted

I already turned you in & gave them a complete list of mods because you're such a hoodlum!

 

[ursharkfuel]

I already turned you in & gave them a complete list of mods because you're such a hoodlum!

You go Cliff, justice needs to be served! Just the thought of that slow RED thing polluting our pristine air is just insulting. He needs to be held accountable and made an example of for the good of the state! I'm in favor of forming a posse and going to find him

 

[Scary Harry]

I already turned you in & gave them a complete list of mods because you're such a hoodlum!

That makes two of us.

That slow RED thing of his is an EPA nightmare for sure.
Anyone who gets behind it is stuck in a cloud of CO, droplets of leaking low grade E-15 fuel, and the 45 MPH (max speed) because he doesn't know how to get out of 1st gear (does the gear shifter even work?). It's also been lowered so there is a shower of sparks just waiting to ignite the fuel leak from the rusted gas tank.

It's really sad that, Ted this person animal is even allowed on the road.

 

[FTB530]

I realize this is focused on flashing ECUs, but wouldn't it also apply to anything that would, or could, change the emissions of your vehicle? Exhausts, air filters, throttle bodies, etc. Except for tires, oil, and antifreeze you'd have to go to the dealership for oem everything...

A friend of mine posted a video a few years ago where the CHP was at Alice’s Resturant and they were writing tickets to motorcycle riders that had aftermarket pipes, she said she saw several get tickets. I would like to know what the outcome of those cases were!

 

[khager01]

A friend of mine posted a video a few years ago where the CHP was at Alice’s Resturant and they were writing tickets to motorcycle riders that had aftermarket pipes, she said she saw several get tickets. I would like to know what the outcome of those cases were!

Where is Alice’s Restaurant?

 

[2andblue]

Where is Alice’s Restaurant?

Alice’s Restaurant

 

[FTB530]

Where is Alice’s Restaurant?

Woodside Commifornia, I don’t recall why it is famous!

 

[ursharkfuel]

That makes two of us. View attachment 29841View attachment 29841

That slow RED thing of his is an EPA nightmare for sure.
Anyone who gets behind it is stuck in a cloud of CO, droplets of leaking low grade E-15 fuel, and the 45 MPH (max speed) because he doesn't know how to get out of 1st gear (does the gear shifter even work?). It's also been lowered so there is a shower of sparks just waiting to ignite the fuel leak from the rusted gas tank.

It's really sad that, Ted this person animal is even allowed on the road. View attachment 29842

OMG that's funny! I am not ashamed to say I laughed so hard I may have dribbled a tad......

 

[ursharkfuel]

A friend of mine posted a video a few years ago where the CHP was at Alice’s Resturant and they were writing tickets to motorcycle riders that had aftermarket pipes, she said she saw several get tickets. I would like to know what the outcome of those cases were!

Simple, they lost and paid their fines. Truth of the matter is, many of those stock pipes that got removed have compliance statements stamped into the metal. Yes, I have seen them over the years, but don't recall the exact verbiage, that it says something to the effect that removing or modifying these pipes is illegal. But that is far from an exact quote.

So here is the gig. I have always believed that my rights end, where the next person's begin - it is called mutual respect. I do not have to right to inflict myself or my personal beliefs on you or anyone else. Sure we can talk about it, and even debate the subject, but at the end of the day its a free country and you should be allowed to do what you want - so long as you respect the rights of others. And here comes the big but.......

But my next door neighbor DOES NOT have the right to wake up my entire family (and others in my neighborhood) early in the morning because he likes to take his obnoxious straight pipe equipped V Twin sneezer out for a ride at the a$$ crack of dawn every Saturday morning (and a few Sundays). Naturally that two wheeled POS rarely runs well, so he must endlessly gun it and tweak it for an extended period prior to departing only to high rev it in first gear the first mile or so. And by the way, before you try to say that the noise from the pipes saves lives, then please explain why the speakers must start blasting prior to engine up, and why they must continue to blast at the intersections when he is not moving or needing to be located for "safety" reasons, not to mention him hear horn or sirens. I rode my bike with him just once and he is a rolling accident waiting to happen! And I love the protective gear this "safety" conscious guy wears, like the helmet that could be easily mistaken for a Yamaka if he was Jewish. I'm sure he wears that highly protective item because he is so concerned about "safety." The fact is, he is an obnoxious a-hole that surrounds himself with noise 24/7 because everything he owns that can make a noise has been modified to make the most noise possible. Everyone I live around says they know when this a$$ is home or away by the peace in the neighborhood when he is away. It is a fact that he does not respect the rights of others who should not have to deal with the God awful noise he creates from sun up to sun down and sometimes late into the night. But the double standard come out when he goes to sleep at 8:30 or 9 PM and insists it should be completely quiet in the neighborhood for him or when his grand kids visit, but if he is entertaining you get to hear it into the early morning hours or again when he gets up sometimes before dawn! This behavior is known as disturbing the peace and it is not legal, not to mention there are community noise ordinances that should prevent it that he loves to violate with near impunity. I say impunity because the last police officer that visited spent an hour chatting with him about bikes and comparing notes on their V Twins and their favorite mods. I couldn't help but hear some of it because it was 20 or so feet from my open bedroom window. And I tend to love the cops, but that guy made my list.....

Yet the toxic neighbor is not alone. Should some jerk in a dead silent crowded residential area be allowed to blow it out at 2 AM, I assume on his way home from work nightly and wake up hundreds of people for a quarter mile in each direction. Noise tends to travel when its silent in the dead of night when there are no other vehicles moving, but this jackass gets to wake up ALL OF US up who like to have our windows open when its cool at night? Not to mention the dogs that bark for the next hour after he pissed them off! I guess this guy needs that noise to make sure he can "safely" avoid I guess bats or zombies that may attack if his bike could not rattle the foundations of the nearby homes. Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable excuse.

What a bunch of crap, noise is only noise and nothing else. I'm sorry, don't buy the loud pipes are safe fable. Some people just need to be seen and heard and that's the truth of it. The rest is a bunch of nonsense to justify inconsiderate behavior. Those that believe this myth would make their car/truck/van loud too if it was true, because they are not always visible in blind spots or on the other side of high profile vehicles. It's all nonsense and the reasons offered defy logic. My bike does have an aftermarket exhaust and can make plenty of noise, but my neighbors tell me they cant tell when I come or go each morning or evening, unlike "other people" in our neighborhood. Why? because unlike Mr. Noise, I feel compelled to be respectful of others and I refuse to "turn it up" unless I am on a highway or well away from people - I do not have that right nor should anyone else, with or without self restraint.

 

[Konehead34]

Arent u glad u KNOW who your freinds are ted....

These guys will throw momma from the train..

 

[connie_rider]

They do seem to be, just a bit tense today.
Hmmmm, must be jealously. (again)
I discovered that they really like my (stock) RED bike and act this way to cover their shame.
Or mebbe it's just that their jealous of "my extremely good looks and pleasing personality".

Ride safe, Ted
PS:

 

[FTB530]

Simple, they lost and paid their fines. Truth of the matter is, many of those stock pipes that got removed have compliance statements stamped into the metal. Yes, I have seen them over the years, but don't recall the exact verbiage, that it says something to the effect that removing or modifying these pipes is illegal. But that is far from an exact quote.

So here is the gig. I have always believed that my rights end, where the next person's begin - it is called mutual respect. I do not have to right to inflict myself or my personal beliefs on you or anyone else. Sure we can talk about it, and even debate the subject, but at the end of the day its a free country and you should be allowed to do what you want - so long as you respect the rights of others. And here comes the big but.......

But my next door neighbor DOES NOT have the right to wake up my entire family (and others in my neighborhood) early in the morning because he likes to take his obnoxious straight pipe equipped V Twin sneezer out for a ride at the a$$ crack of dawn every Saturday morning (and a few Sundays). Naturally that two wheeled POS rarely runs well, so he must endlessly gun it and tweak it for an extended period prior to departing only to high rev it in first gear the first mile or so. And by the way, before you try to say that the noise from the pipes saves lives, then please explain why the speakers must start blasting prior to engine up, and why they must continue to blast at the intersections when he is not moving or needing to be located for "safety" reasons, not to mention him hear horn or sirens. I rode my bike with him just once and he is a rolling accident waiting to happen! And I love the protective gear this "safety" conscious guy wears, like the helmet that could be easily mistaken for a Yamaka if he was Jewish. I'm sure he wears that highly protective item because he is so concerned about "safety." The fact is, he is an obnoxious a-hole that surrounds himself with noise 24/7 because everything he owns that can make a noise has been modified to make the most noise possible. Everyone I live around says they know when this a$$ is home or away by the peace in the neighborhood when he is away. It is a fact that he does not respect the rights of others who should not have to deal with the God awful noise he creates from sun up to sun down and sometimes late into the night. But the double standard come out when he goes to sleep at 8:30 or 9 PM and insists it should be completely quiet in the neighborhood for him or when his grand kids visit, but if he is entertaining you get to hear it into the early morning hours or again when he gets up sometimes before dawn! This behavior is known as disturbing the peace and it is not legal, not to mention there are community noise ordinances that should prevent it that he loves to violate with near impunity. I say impunity because the last police officer that visited spent an hour chatting with him about bikes and comparing notes on their V Twins and their favorite mods. I couldn't help but hear some of it because it was 20 or so feet from my open bedroom window. And I tend to love the cops, but that guy made my list.....

Yet the toxic neighbor is not alone. Should some jerk in a dead silent crowded residential area be allowed to blow it out at 2 AM, I assume on his way home from work nightly and wake up hundreds of people for a quarter mile in each direction. Noise tends to travel when its silent in the dead of night when there are no other vehicles moving, but this jackass gets to wake up ALL OF US up who like to have our windows open when its cool at night? Not to mention the dogs that bark for the next hour after he pissed them off! I guess this guy needs that noise to make sure he can "safely" avoid I guess bats or zombies that may attack if his bike could not rattle the foundations of the nearby homes. Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable excuse.

What a bunch of crap, noise is only noise and nothing else. I'm sorry, don't buy the loud pipes are safe fable. Some people just need to be seen and heard and that's the truth of it. The rest is a bunch of nonsense to justify inconsiderate behavior. Those that believe this myth would make their car/truck/van loud too if it was true, because they are not always visible in blind spots or on the other side of high profile vehicles. It's all nonsense and the reasons offered defy logic. My bike does have an aftermarket exhaust and can make plenty of noise, but my neighbors tell me they cant tell when I come or go each morning or evening, unlike "other people" in our neighborhood. Why? because unlike Mr. Noise, I feel compelled to be respectful of others and I refuse to "turn it up" unless I am on a highway or well away from people - I do not have that right nor should anyone else, with or without self restraint.

Simple, they lost and paid their fines. Truth of the matter is, many of those stock pipes that got removed have compliance statements stamped into the metal. Yes, I have seen them over the years, but don't recall the exact verbiage, that it says something to the effect that removing or modifying these pipes is illegal. But that is far from an exact quote.

So here is the gig. I have always believed that my rights end, where the next person's begin - it is called mutual respect. I do not have to right to inflict myself or my personal beliefs on you or anyone else. Sure we can talk about it, and even debate the subject, but at the end of the day its a free country and you should be allowed to do what you want - so long as you respect the rights of others. And here comes the big but.......

But my next door neighbor DOES NOT have the right to wake up my entire family (and others in my neighborhood) early in the morning because he likes to take his obnoxious straight pipe equipped V Twin sneezer out for a ride at the a$$ crack of dawn every Saturday morning (and a few Sundays). Naturally that two wheeled POS rarely runs well, so he must endlessly gun it and tweak it for an extended period prior to departing only to high rev it in first gear the first mile or so. And by the way, before you try to say that the noise from the pipes saves lives, then please explain why the speakers must start blasting prior to engine up, and why they must continue to blast at the intersections when he is not moving or needing to be located for "safety" reasons, not to mention him hear horn or sirens. I rode my bike with him just once and he is a rolling accident waiting to happen! And I love the protective gear this "safety" conscious guy wears, like the helmet that could be easily mistaken for a Yamaka if he was Jewish. I'm sure he wears that highly protective item because he is so concerned about "safety." The fact is, he is an obnoxious a-hole that surrounds himself with noise 24/7 because everything he owns that can make a noise has been modified to make the most noise possible. Everyone I live around says they know when this a$$ is home or away by the peace in the neighborhood when he is away. It is a fact that he does not respect the rights of others who should not have to deal with the God awful noise he creates from sun up to sun down and sometimes late into the night. But the double standard come out when he goes to sleep at 8:30 or 9 PM and insists it should be completely quiet in the neighborhood for him or when his grand kids visit, but if he is entertaining you get to hear it into the early morning hours or again when he gets up sometimes before dawn! This behavior is known as disturbing the peace and it is not legal, not to mention there are community noise ordinances that should prevent it that he loves to violate with near impunity. I say impunity because the last police officer that visited spent an hour chatting with him about bikes and comparing notes on their V Twins and their favorite mods. I couldn't help but hear some of it because it was 20 or so feet from my open bedroom window. And I tend to love the cops, but that guy made my list.....

Yet the toxic neighbor is not alone. Should some jerk in a dead silent crowded residential area be allowed to blow it out at 2 AM, I assume on his way home from work nightly and wake up hundreds of people for a quarter mile in each direction. Noise tends to travel when its silent in the dead of night when there are no other vehicles moving, but this jackass gets to wake up ALL OF US up who like to have our windows open when its cool at night? Not to mention the dogs that bark for the next hour after he pissed them off! I guess this guy needs that noise to make sure he can "safely" avoid I guess bats or zombies that may attack if his bike could not rattle the foundations of the nearby homes. Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable excuse.

What a bunch of crap, noise is only noise and nothing else. I'm sorry, don't buy the loud pipes are safe fable. Some people just need to be seen and heard and that's the truth of it. The rest is a bunch of nonsense to justify inconsiderate behavior. Those that believe this myth would make their car/truck/van loud too if it was true, because they are not always visible in blind spots or on the other side of high profile vehicles. It's all nonsense and the reasons offered defy logic. My bike does have an aftermarket exhaust and can make plenty of noise, but my neighbors tell me they cant tell when I come or go each morning or evening, unlike "other people" in our neighborhood. Why? because unlike Mr. Noise, I feel compelled to be respectful of others and I refuse to "turn it up" unless I am on a highway or well away from people - I do not have that right nor should anyone else, with or without self restraint.

Yea I would bet they payed their fines and rode off with the same pipe on their bike they had before court!

 

[khager01]

Woodside Commifornia, I don’t recall why it is famous!

Ok thanks I am in SoCal for the next several months, but I won’t be anywhere near the Bay Area so hopefully I will be safe from the CARB nazi’s. On another note Does anyone know why Newcombs Ranch is closed? And when is it going to reopen?

 

[Motomaniac]

Ok thanks I am in SoCal for the next several months, but I won’t be anywhere near the Bay Area so hopefully I will be safe from the CARB nazi’s. On another note Does anyone know why Newcombs Ranch is closed? And when is it going to reopen?

Newcomb's Ranch is closed I think mainly because it's for sale...no date when it is going to reopen... bit of a bummer. Always a great place to stop and check out the bikes and cars!

 

[zrxmax]

Simple, they lost and paid their fines. Truth of the matter is, many of those stock pipes that got removed have compliance statements stamped into the metal. Yes, I have seen them over the years, but don't recall the exact verbiage, that it says something to the effect that removing or modifying these pipes is illegal. But that is far from an exact quote.

So here is the gig. I have always believed that my rights end, where the next person's begin - it is called mutual respect. I do not have to right to inflict myself or my personal beliefs on you or anyone else. Sure we can talk about it, and even debate the subject, but at the end of the day its a free country and you should be allowed to do what you want - so long as you respect the rights of others. And here comes the big but.......

But my next door neighbor DOES NOT have the right to wake up my entire family (and others in my neighborhood) early in the morning because he likes to take his obnoxious straight pipe equipped V Twin sneezer out for a ride at the a$$ crack of dawn every Saturday morning (and a few Sundays). Naturally that two wheeled POS rarely runs well, so he must endlessly gun it and tweak it for an extended period prior to departing only to high rev it in first gear the first mile or so. And by the way, before you try to say that the noise from the pipes saves lives, then please explain why the speakers must start blasting prior to engine up, and why they must continue to blast at the intersections when he is not moving or needing to be located for "safety" reasons, not to mention him hear horn or sirens. I rode my bike with him just once and he is a rolling accident waiting to happen! And I love the protective gear this "safety" conscious guy wears, like the helmet that could be easily mistaken for a Yamaka if he was Jewish. I'm sure he wears that highly protective item because he is so concerned about "safety." The fact is, he is an obnoxious a-hole that surrounds himself with noise 24/7 because everything he owns that can make a noise has been modified to make the most noise possible. Everyone I live around says they know when this a$$ is home or away by the peace in the neighborhood when he is away. It is a fact that he does not respect the rights of others who should not have to deal with the God awful noise he creates from sun up to sun down and sometimes late into the night. But the double standard come out when he goes to sleep at 8:30 or 9 PM and insists it should be completely quiet in the neighborhood for him or when his grand kids visit, but if he is entertaining you get to hear it into the early morning hours or again when he gets up sometimes before dawn! This behavior is known as disturbing the peace and it is not legal, not to mention there are community noise ordinances that should prevent it that he loves to violate with near impunity. I say impunity because the last police officer that visited spent an hour chatting with him about bikes and comparing notes on their V Twins and their favorite mods. I couldn't help but hear some of it because it was 20 or so feet from my open bedroom window. And I tend to love the cops, but that guy made my list.....

Yet the toxic neighbor is not alone. Should some jerk in a dead silent crowded residential area be allowed to blow it out at 2 AM, I assume on his way home from work nightly and wake up hundreds of people for a quarter mile in each direction. Noise tends to travel when its silent in the dead of night when there are no other vehicles moving, but this jackass gets to wake up ALL OF US up who like to have our windows open when its cool at night? Not to mention the dogs that bark for the next hour after he pissed them off! I guess this guy needs that noise to make sure he can "safely" avoid I guess bats or zombies that may attack if his bike could not rattle the foundations of the nearby homes. Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable excuse.

What a bunch of crap, noise is only noise and nothing else. I'm sorry, don't buy the loud pipes are safe fable. Some people just need to be seen and heard and that's the truth of it. The rest is a bunch of nonsense to justify inconsiderate behavior. Those that believe this myth would make their car/truck/van loud too if it was true, because they are not always visible in blind spots or on the other side of high profile vehicles. It's all nonsense and the reasons offered defy logic. My bike does have an aftermarket exhaust and can make plenty of noise, but my neighbors tell me they cant tell when I come or go each morning or evening, unlike "other people" in our neighborhood. Why? because unlike Mr. Noise, I feel compelled to be respectful of others and I refuse to "turn it up" unless I am on a highway or well away from people - I do not have that right nor should anyone else, with or without self restraint.

This got me thinking again about modifying an exhaust cut out that works at the touch of a button. His Harley is loud... no doubt... just as I am sure being on WFO throttle when passing him with the exhaust cut out in the open position would remind him he isn't the only one that can make one's self heard. Besides, I haven't ran across a Harley yet that could keep up with my ego and my Connie at the same time.
Harley = over priced under performing stone age design engines... However... they are good to buy and sell... some people can't resist the opportunity to come off like a Hells Angels gangster. If they are businessmen or some other professional level position in life they let their facial hair start growing on Thursday so that by Sunday they have a new crop of stubble to complete the image thing when they go for a ride.

 

[connie_rider]

Frugal Cut out valve...
{Prolly designed by Harry}

Ride safe, Ted

 

[Scary Harry]

Gonna add one of those to my helmet so I can vent next time I get cut off by a cage driver.

 

[maverick9611]

i thought i was the hooligan? i ride a dorsoduro, klr692 motard and i ride dragon all the time. i need more skin in the game

 

[zrxmax]

Frugal Cut out valve...
{Prolly designed by Harry}

Ride safe, Ted

I would be embarrassed to reveal something with that level of Hillbilly engineering...

i thought i was the hooligan? i ride a dorsoduro, klr692 motard and i ride dragon all the time. i need more skin in the game

Nice looking moment in time on the Connie... however... what is a dorosoduro Kir 692 motard?

 

[maverick9611]

I would be embarrassed to reveal something with that level of Hillbilly engineering...

Nice looking moment in time on the Connie... however... what is a dorosoduro Kir 692 motard?

your joking i presume

 

[maverick9611]

im mr. motard!

 

[timdow507]

s have an aftermarket exhaust and can make

Simple, they lost and paid their fines. Truth of the matter is, many of those stock pipes that got removed have compliance statements stamped into the metal. Yes, I have seen them over the years, but don't recall the exact verbiage, that it says something to the effect that removing or modifying these pipes is illegal. But that is far from an exact quote.

So here is the gig. I have always believed that my rights end, where the next person's begin - it is called mutual respect. I do not have to right to inflict myself or my personal beliefs on you or anyone else. Sure we can talk about it, and even debate the subject, but at the end of the day its a free country and you should be allowed to do what you want - so long as you respect the rights of others. And here comes the big but.......

But my next door neighbor DOES NOT have the right to wake up my entire family (and others in my neighborhood) early in the morning because he likes to take his obnoxious straight pipe equipped V Twin sneezer out for a ride at the a$$ crack of dawn every Saturday morning (and a few Sundays). Naturally that two wheeled POS rarely runs well, so he must endlessly gun it and tweak it for an extended period prior to departing only to high rev it in first gear the first mile or so. And by the way, before you try to say that the noise from the pipes saves lives, then please explain why the speakers must start blasting prior to engine up, and why they must continue to blast at the intersections when he is not moving or needing to be located for "safety" reasons, not to mention him hear horn or sirens. I rode my bike with him just once and he is a rolling accident waiting to happen! And I love the protective gear this "safety" conscious guy wears, like the helmet that could be easily mistaken for a Yamaka if he was Jewish. I'm sure he wears that highly protective item because he is so concerned about "safety." The fact is, he is an obnoxious a-hole that surrounds himself with noise 24/7 because everything he owns that can make a noise has been modified to make the most noise possible. Everyone I live around says they know when this a$$ is home or away by the peace in the neighborhood when he is away. It is a fact that he does not respect the rights of others who should not have to deal with the God awful noise he creates from sun up to sun down and sometimes late into the night. But the double standard come out when he goes to sleep at 8:30 or 9 PM and insists it should be completely quiet in the neighborhood for him or when his grand kids visit, but if he is entertaining you get to hear it into the early morning hours or again when he gets up sometimes before dawn! This behavior is known as disturbing the peace and it is not legal, not to mention there are community noise ordinances that should prevent it that he loves to violate with near impunity. I say impunity because the last police officer that visited spent an hour chatting with him about bikes and comparing notes on their V Twins and their favorite mods. I couldn't help but hear some of it because it was 20 or so feet from my open bedroom window. And I tend to love the cops, but that guy made my list.....

Yet the toxic neighbor is not alone. Should some jerk in a dead silent crowded residential area be allowed to blow it out at 2 AM, I assume on his way home from work nightly and wake up hundreds of people for a quarter mile in each direction. Noise tends to travel when its silent in the dead of night when there are no other vehicles moving, but this jackass gets to wake up ALL OF US up who like to have our windows open when its cool at night? Not to mention the dogs that bark for the next hour after he pissed them off! I guess this guy needs that noise to make sure he can "safely" avoid I guess bats or zombies that may attack if his bike could not rattle the foundations of the nearby homes. Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable excuse.

What a bunch of crap, noise is only noise and nothing else. I'm sorry, don't buy the loud pipes are safe fable. Some people just need to be seen and heard and that's the truth of it. The rest is a bunch of nonsense to justify inconsiderate behavior. Those that believe this myth would make their car/truck/van loud too if it was true, because they are not always visible in blind spots or on the other side of high profile vehicles. It's all nonsense and the reasons offered defy logic. My bike does have an aftermarket exhaust and can make plenty of noise, but my neighbors tell me they cant tell when I come or go each morning or evening, unlike "other people" in our neighborhood. Why? because unlike Mr. Noise, I feel compelled to be respectful of others and I refuse to "turn it up" unless I am on a highway or well away from people - I do not have that right nor should anyone else, with or without self restraint.

Do you think it is worth it to give up being able to (illegally) modify our motorcycles to eliminate the "too loud" crowd? I personally don't think the mods done to MOST sport touring motorcycles are going to make a spits difference when it comes to emissions, and as for exhausts most are not too loud (OK Muzzy's is - but not often used on Concours), and who likes Big Brother looking over their shoulder? I also had a neighbor once with a LAF Harley that left for work at 4:30 AM. The D'head woke the entire street up every morning.

So on the one hand, I hate to see more restrictions which can and will lead to even more restrictions. But on the other, too much noise from vehicles is quite offensive and it seems out of control, at least here in the city.

If the EPA has it's way, maybe future Mr. HD can run the gunning engine sound through the stereo speakers on his electric motorcycle. Or via a bluetooth speaker on his badass bicycle. This will be by 2035 in The Socialist Republic of Taxifornia BTW.

 

[Steve in sunny Fla]

Actually, having read the epa statement posted here, and followed some of the links, I've grown curious why the OP made the point specifically about flashing? For example, the epa talkes about bypassing emissions devices. What about the motorcyle exhaust companies providing catless headers, which is all the rage in the Concours world right now . if there ever was a "bypass" that most assuredly qualifies. Why was the point of this post just about flashing?

Steve

 

[fartymarty]

Actually, having read the epa statement posted here, and followed some of the links, I've grown curious why the OP made the point specifically about flashing? For example, the epa talkes about bypassing emissions devices. What about the motorcyle exhaust companies providing catless headers, which is all the rage in the Concours world right now . if there ever was a "bypass" that most assuredly qualifies. Why was the point of this post just about flashing?

Steve

No doubt he was just conspiring against you and Ivan. Jeesh! Lighten up Frances.

.....or it could be that since he was one of the first to post about reflashing the ECU (back in the Guhl days), that he felt that he should follow up on flashing news in general. As for cat-less headers being all the rage....well just because Ted does something, I wouldn't call it a rage.
It's not as widespread as flashing is and not as economical either. Cat-less exhaust would certainly would be much more polluting than any viable
flash would by itself....but I seriously doubt there were any targets in mind with the OPs post.....not everything is a conspiracy. He may have increased your business this summer though, some that were putting off their flash might get busy sending in their ECUs. I hope you weren't planning a summer vacation.

 

[Steve in sunny Fla]

No doubt he was just conspiring against you and Ivan. Jeesh! Lighten up Frances.

.....or it could be that since he was one of the first to post about reflashing the ECU (back in the Guhl days), that he felt that he should follow up on flashing news in general. As for cat-less headers being all the rage....well just because Ted does something, I wouldn't call it a rage.
It's not as widespread as flashing is and not as economical either. Cat-less exhaust would certainly would be much more polluting than any viable
flash would by itself....but I seriously doubt there were any targets in mind with the OPs post.....not everything is a conspiracy. He may have increased your business this summer though, some that were putting off their flash might get busy sending in their ECUs. I hope you weren't planning a summer vacation.

Where did you get the ideas that I thought it was a conspiracy or that I needed to lighten up? Seriously, I'm getting questions daily, and seeing on other places online constantly. about folks putting on catless exhausts. Since the Black Widow system was released they can't keep them is stock. These are being shipped in from England. It really makes me wonder about how the epa and other government agencies work together, in that we are allowing importation and purchase of foriegn product to bypass our emissions laws, and yet cracking down and fining American companies for violations.

 

[connie_rider]

How did Ted get into this discussion? I was setting here being invisible.
By the way, When my system was (err) dinged,,, I didn't buy an "aftermarket" Catless system.
I installed an "OEM" ZX-14 Header on mine.
ie; My header was damaged and I had to find an inexpensive replacement.
(Shhhhhhh!!)

Your both making good points.
I like to think that he posted some info that he came across, and wanted to share with the group.
No motives, etc.
I am (however) wondering about the motives of the EPA.

Ride safe, Ted

 

[FTB530]

Actually, having read the epa statement posted here, and followed some of the links, I've grown curious why the OP made the point specifically about flashing? For example, the epa talkes about bypassing emissions devices. What about the motorcyle exhaust companies providing catless headers, which is all the rage in the Concours world right now . if there ever was a "bypass" that most assuredly qualifies. Why was the point of this post just about flashing?

Steve

How did Ted get into this discussion? I was setting here being invisible.
By the way, When my system was (err) dinged,,, I didn't buy an "aftermarket" Catless system.
I installed an "OEM" ZX-14 Header on mine.
ie; My header was damaged and I had to find an inexpensive replacement.
(Shhhhhhh!!)

Your both making good points.
I like to think that he posted some info that he came across, and wanted to share with the group.
No motives, etc.
I am (however) wondering about the motives of the EPA.

Ride safe, Ted

I am (however) wondering about the motives of the EPA

Two words! Money money!

 

[fartymarty]

Where did you get the ideas that I thought it was a conspiracy or that I needed to lighten up?

I thought it was implied by your questioning the OP's reason (motives?) for referencing flashing vs other mods such as cat-less pipes. My interpretation of your questions seemed to hint that he might have had a plan of some sort for not including the full spectrum of EPA prohibited mods vs just the re-flashing. However if I'm in error in interpreting your questions that way, then I fully apologize to you Steve.

As for Ted, well, I like to sprinkle a little Ted into every post I can. He is like a bit of yeast, in that he can lighten things up and make them more airy, or perhaps a bit like the parable of the leaven?....well maybe the latter is too much outside my knowledge base. As for his pipes having cats, only Ted knows for sure , however....

I was setting here being invisible.

......we all know he isn't invisible.

 

[zrxmax]

your joking i presume

Looks like a fun motorcycle to ride... however... I am kinda ignorant on that particular brand... so... it was new to me.

 

[Fred H.]

FYI, here's a link to the new EPA Tampering policy that was released in November last year. It specifically mentions ECU Tuners as well as other modifications.

EPA Tampering Policy - The EPA Enforcement Policy on Vehicle and Engine Tampering and Aftermarket Defeat Devices under the Clean Air Act | US EPA

EPA Tampering Policy - The EPA Enforcement Policy on Vehicle and Engine Tampering and Aftermarket Defeat Devices under the Clean Air Act.

www.epa.gov

 

[Steve in sunny Fla]

FYI, here's a link to the EPA Tampering policy. It specifically meantions ECU Tuners.

EPA Tampering Policy - The EPA Enforcement Policy on Vehicle and Engine Tampering and Aftermarket Defeat Devices under the Clean Air Act | US EPA

EPA Tampering Policy - The EPA Enforcement Policy on Vehicle and Engine Tampering and Aftermarket Defeat Devices under the Clean Air Act.

www.epa.gov

Fred, you seem to be very well educated on this subject. Clearly you have done much research.
I briefly read the current policy you posted, and it brings to mind a question for you... How is it that Dynojet which is a large business is able to offer Power Commanders and auto tuners to the whole of motorsports, and WHY would they choose to do so in the face of such stringent fines? It would seem to me that if the epa is looking to really make a dent, they'd start with the companies manufacturing the hardware to alter tuning, before they went after the users of the hardware.

Steve

 

[2andblue]

I would expect all professional companies performing tuning and/or selling devices have proper legal representation for their products.

These legal partners would have their eyes and ears wide open staying aware of all possible legal challenges while the tuners / device makers have their heads down doing what they do best.

I have not a clue what this legal oversight costs, an overhead for sure built into the product pricing, like insurance.

To Steve your question who should EPA target …. I got pulled over on the HWY as a teenager and provided my first performance award ‘warning’. I said to the officer (couldn’t keep my mouth shut) I was doing the same speed as everyone else why did I get pulled over and not the others that had caught up to me and were happy to leave me in the dust when I stopped. He responded he needed no specific reason to pull me over, if I was breaking the law that is all that matters.

 

[Scary Harry]

Somebody always gets eaten.

 

[ursharkfuel]

Do you think it is worth it to give up being able to (illegally) modify our motorcycles to eliminate the "too loud" crowd? I personally don't think the mods done to MOST sport touring motorcycles are going to make a spits difference when it comes to emissions, and as for exhausts most are not too loud (OK Muzzy's is - but not often used on Concours), and who likes Big Brother looking over their shoulder? I also had a neighbor once with a LAF Harley that left for work at 4:30 AM. The D'head woke the entire street up every morning.

So on the one hand, I hate to see more restrictions which can and will lead to even more restrictions. But on the other, too much noise from vehicles is quite offensive and it seems out of control, at least here in the city.

If the EPA has it's way, maybe future Mr. HD can run the gunning engine sound through the stereo speakers on his electric motorcycle. Or via a bluetooth speaker on his badass bicycle. This will be by 2035 in The Socialist Republic of Taxifornia BTW.

I could not agree more. A-holes like Mr. LAF Harley are doing their absolute best to get us all forced on to electric bicycles here in Taxifornia. When the tree huggers see him and his brothers with their smokin and chokin noise makers running around their neighborhoods, they fly to Sacramento or at least fire up their email to start getting their socialist elected officials all fired up to ban that too! Gump got it right when he said, "stupid is, as stupid does."

I guess when we can no longer buy gas and the state issues them their battery powered bikes they will attach playing cards to the forks so they flap in the spokes and make that "cool cruiser" sound. Wonder how an electric bike steers with ape hanger bars and accelerates 400 lbs. of chrome add-ons?!?

 

[Nice17connie]

The damn EPA needs to be shut down they are tyrants and they go against the right of the people to do what they want with Your money. Whatever happened to life liberty and a pursuit of happiness The pursuit of happiness means you can do what you want with your automobile motorcycle snowmobile four-wheeler anything diesel truck airplane boat EPA needs to be shut down. They are the biggest tyrants of this country.

 

[Nice17connie]

EPA better not come after me because I have mine done. That's all I'm going to say.

 

[fartymarty]

EPA better not come after me because I have mine done. That's all I'm going to say.

I'm sure they are trembling in fear in their offices right now just hoping and praying that their boss doesn't tell them to come after you.

 

[khager01]

Just speculating here that the EPA maybe going after the tuners because it is easier to enforce since they are altering ECUs that have a VIN number. The cat less exhaust and power commanders may be going on a track bike after all, even though a lot of track bikes were once street legal bikes.

 

[Steve in sunny Fla]

Just speculating here that the EPA maybe going after the tuners because it is easier to enforce since they are altering ECUs that have a VIN number. The cat less exhaust and power commanders may be going on a track bike after all, even though a lot of track bikes were once street legal bikes.

They are going after dedicated race vehicles that started out as a commercially purchased vehicle.

I'm all for clean air. That "rolling coal" crap was really an abomination. I've been peppered with soot too many times. But at some point, really? aren't they just flexing muscles?

I have asthma. My albuterol inhalers used to cost me 3.00. now they are 60.00 . WHY, because the propellent harmed the ozone layer? I guess us asthmatics were responsible for the destruction of life as we know it, so now we can breathe... if we can afford it.

 

[Nice17connie]

I'm sure they are trembling in fear in their offices right now just hoping and praying that their boss doesn't tell them to come after you.

|| Deleted for saying silly things that include politics and name calling ||