2008 C14 piston blow back

[djsammy1]

Hello. I have a 2008 Connie 32k and its been burning oil. No smoking or leaking. I am very good with keeping up with my maintenance and I don't abuse my bike. I use Mobile1 4T. I had the ECU flashed, Area P exhaust and K&N filter. The local shop said I will need a top end rebuild ...any recommendations is greatly appreciated. Feel free to text or call me anytime 571-241-4229. Thank you.

Dj

 

[connie_rider]

#1 How much oil are you using?
#2 Are you always checking the oil in the same manner?
,,,,ie; (on the stand, mebbe 10 minutes after running the engine to temp)
#3 Assuming it's not quarts;
,,,, Adding a little oil occasionally isn't a big deal. If the bike is running good, and not smoking. Run it.

Ride safe, Ted

 

[djsammy1]

#1 How much oil are you using?

Ride safe, Ted

First thank you for responding. Oil change only 4qts and with filter 4.5 ish. I also Add the oil run it and then check site glass. I changed the oil and then 2,000 miles later it needed over half a qt.

 

[connie_rider]

First thank you for responding. Oil change only 4qts and with filter 4.5 ish. I also Add the oil run it and then check site glass. I changed the oil and then 2,000 miles later it needed over half a qt.

On the stand? After all oil has had time run return to bottom of engine?
Some don't do that and error is possible.
I'd run it another 1000 - 2000 (while monitoring it) and see if it continues to go down.

Ride safe, Ted

 

[djsammy1]

#1 How much oil are you using? 4qts oil change only and 4.5-5 with filter
#2 Are you always checking the oil in the same manner? yes..ground level
,,,,ie; (on the stand, mebbe 10 minutes after running the engine to temp)
#3 Assuming it's not quarts;
,,,, Adding a little oil occasionally isn't a big deal. If the bike is running good, and not smoking. Run it. Yes it rides great....shop mechanic recommended 20w/50 semi synt

Ride safe, Ted

 

[djsammy1]

On the stand? After all oil has had time run return to bottom of engine?
Some don't do that and error is possible.
I'd run it another 1000 - 2000 (while monitoring it) and see if it continues to go down.

Ride safe, Ted

I do have some oil blow back oil specs on my garage door. not excessive but some. Should I unflash my ECU and put it back to stock?

 

[jwh20]

I'm not sure about Kawasaki's position on oil usage under warranty, but most auto warranties consider oil consumption above 1 qt. per 1000 miles to be excessive. So your 0.5 qt. @ 2000 miles is WAY below that.

I think your C14 is normal! Not only that but oil is way less expensive than engine rebuilds.

 

[djsammy1]

I'm not sure about Kawasaki's position on oil usage under warranty, but most auto warranties consider oil consumption above 1 qt. per 1000 miles to be excessive. So your 0.5 qt. @ 2000 miles is WAY below that.

I think your C14 is normal! Not only that but oil is way less expensive than engine rebuilds.

This is my second C14 and this is the fist issue I ever had. Once I return I will do another oil change and monitor it closely to see if HOPFULLY is was a one time deal and yes oil is WAAAAAY cheaper than a rebuild. Thanks.

 

[connie_rider]

You said that this is a 2008?
Why are you asking about warranty?

Should I unflash my ECU and put it back to stock?
A Flash does not effect oil consumption unless you are riding WOT all the time..

I do have some oil blow back oil specs on my garage door. not excessive but some.

You may have oil blowing "by" the rings. Not the same as blowback. To tell you the truth, I'm not even sure what "blowback" is?

Best way to check condition of engine (leaking rings) would be a compression test, or a leakdown test.
If the mechanic didn't check that, he KNOWS NOTHING, and is just telling you an approximate fix/cost, IF that was needed.

Ride safe, Ted

 

[djsammy1]

You said that this is a 2008?
Why are you asking about warranty?

Should I unflash my ECU and put it back to stock?
A Flash does not effect oil consumption unless you are riding WOT all the time..

Ride safe, Ted

No sir jwh20 made a reference. I am waaaay out of warranty. I ride pretty conservative occasionally I open it but nothing crazy

 

[nickrides]

1/2 QT in 2000 miles is Not only OK but i'd say very good.
Take that $ and go buy yourself something nice and don't worry about it.
Nick
2014 C-14

 

[djsammy1]

You said that this is a 2008?
Why are you asking about warranty?

Should I unflash my ECU and put it back to stock?
A Flash does not effect oil consumption unless you are riding WOT all the time..


You may have oil blowing "by" the rings. Not the same as blowback. To tell you the truth, I'm not even sure what "blowback" is?

Best way to check condition of engine (leaking rings) would be a compression test, or a leakdown test.
If the mechanic didn't check that, he KNOWS NOTHING, and is just telling you an approximate fix/cost, IF that was needed.

Ride safe, Ted

I agree especially for a $60 diagnostic fee. I’m pretty sure they rode and didn’t see or feel anything different. The cost would be between $2500-$3500. The problem is I contacted 5 shops and either they are booked or the job is too labor intensive and not interested doing the job. So I’m kinda stuck. One shop recommended to trade it in. I said no sir I am not that type. I will see it for parts if it comes down to that.

 

[djsammy1]

1/2 QT in 2000 miles is Not only OK but i'd say very good.
Take that $ and go buy yourself something nice and don't worry about it.
Nick
2014 C-14

I will take everyone’s advice and just monitor the oil consumption add oil when needed and take it from there. The mechanic recommended 20w/50 semi synthetic. Any thoughts. ?

 

[jwh20]

I will take everyone’s advice and just monitor the oil consumption add oil when needed and take it from there. The mechanic recommended 20w/50 semi synthetic. Any thoughts. ?

For most people 20W-50 matches the chart for operating temps unless you ride a lot in cold weather.

 

[lather]

I put 175,000 miles on my first 08. It used a half quart of oil per 1000 miles. It was still running as strong as new when it was totaled in a rear end crash.

 

[Just Cliff]

Until this thread popped up I had never heard of anybody having to add oil, didn't even know it was a thing.

I've never had to add to mine, but then I do ride like grandma & it's still low mileage.

 

[2andblue]

Closing in on 40K, ride it like I stole it as often as I can - change every 5,000 miles doesn’t burn a drop.

Wondering what is causing the oil burning? Valve guides leaking or rings?

As long as stays light amount of consumption ride it.

 

[djsammy1]

For most people 20W-50 matches the chart for operating temps unless you ride a lot in cold weather.

I try and ride year round lower teens gets a little chilly even with heated gear. I will try 20w/50 after this next oil change. Thank you.

 

[djsammy1]

Closing in on 40K, ride it like I stole it as often as I can - change every 5,000 miles doesn’t burn a drop.

Wondering what is causing the oil burning? Valve guides leaking or rings?

As long as stays light amount of consumption ride it.

Until this thread popped up I had never heard of anybody having to add oil, didn't even know it was a thing.

I've never had to add to mine, but then I do ride like grandma & it's still low mileage.

I agree 100%. This is a mystery to many. So we will see the final outcome. As much as i love this bike I cant see paying high $$$ for a top end rebuild if it comes to that.

 

[djsammy1]

Closing in on 40K, ride it like I stole it as often as I can - change every 5,000 miles doesn’t burn a drop.

Wondering what is causing the oil burning? Valve guides leaking or rings?

As long as stays light amount of consumption ride it.

As of now no leaks no smoke no performance lost just oil disappearing. Funny, I just change the oil and filter today put 4qts ran it for 10 miles on 4 quarts and the site glass is perfect with just 4qts . I will monitor the consumption. I normally will need over 4qts with filter change....

 

[djsammy1]

I change the oil and filter today added just 4qts 10w/40 Mobile 1, rode it for a good 10 miles let is sit rest of the day and here is the site glass. The oil in between both lines hot and cold. looks perfect for now. Lets see the change. Next oil change will be with 20w/50...

 

[rogracer]

If you don't see oil smoke in the exhaust I wouldn't worry about it. Have you checked your exhaust cam position sensor seal? They are well-known leakers.

 

[fartymarty]

I do have some oil blow back oil specs on my garage door. not excessive but some. Should I unflash my ECU and put it back to stock?

To tell you the truth, I'm not even sure what "blowback" is?

The terms as I've come to understand them over the years (I could be wrong, so view this post as a discussion, not a know it all tutorial).

blowby - air/fuel mixture and or exhaust gases blowing by the rings and down into the crankcase usually blowing oil mist out of the crank case breather. (I had a '61 144c.i. straight six Comet that I think had more air flow out the breather pipe than the exhaust pipe.)

blowback -
A) External oil leaks from grommets, "o" rings, gaskets, hoses etc. that "blowback" around the engine/transmission during riding covering almost everything and making it difficult to tell where the oil is leaking from as it accumulates on the garage floor in different places.

B) Air fuel mixture and or exhaust gases blowing back past a leaky intake valve and many times igniting with a loud pop in the intake area.

C) (two strokes) when a high performance tuned engine is set up for high rpm power band (usually with piston skirt controlled intake vs rotary valve intake) there will be air/fuel mixture "blowback" out of the carburetor at lower than power band rpm.

I'm assuming that the OP was referring to blowback type A). It seems doubtful that the top end needs rebuilding but it probably needs a valve clearance adjustment at 32K (has it ever had one?) and oil leaks could be checked for at that time.

 

[connie_rider]

The terms as I've come to understand them over the years (I could be wrong, so view this post as a discussion, not a know it all tutorial).

blowby - air/fuel mixture and or exhaust gases blowing by the rings and down into the crankcase usually blowing oil mist out of the crank case breather. (I had a '61 144c.i. straight six Comet that I think had more air flow out the breather pipe than the exhaust pipe.)

blowback -
A) External oil leaks from grommets, "o" rings, gaskets, hoses etc. that "blowback" around the engine/transmission during riding covering almost everything and making it difficult to tell where the oil is leaking from as it accumulates on the garage floor in different places.

B) Air fuel mixture and or exhaust gases blowing back past a leaky intake valve and many times igniting with a loud pop in the intake area.

C) (two strokes) when a high performance tuned engine is set up for high rpm power band (usually with piston skirt controlled intake vs rotary valve intake) there will be air/fuel mixture "blowback" out of the carburetor at lower than power band rpm.

I'm assuming that the OP was referring to blowback type A). It seems doubtful that the top end needs rebuilding but it probably needs a valve clearance adjustment at 32K (has it ever had one?) and oil leaks could be checked for at that time.

I still think it may be blowby.
He said that he had no oil leaks, nor smoke. (So, not A)
Type A is caused by excessive crankcase pressure. ie; Pressure coming by the rings, or faulty relief of pressure in the crankcase.

 

[djsammy1]

If you don't see oil smoke in the exhaust I wouldn't worry about it. Have you checked your exhaust cam position sensor seal? They are well-known leakers.

Yes I replaced it last year it was leaking on the headers and smoking. Thank you.

 

[djsammy1]

The terms as I've come to understand them over the years (I could be wrong, so view this post as a discussion, not a know it all tutorial).

blowby - air/fuel mixture and or exhaust gases blowing by the rings and down into the crankcase usually blowing oil mist out of the crank case breather. (I had a '61 144c.i. straight six Comet that I think had more air flow out the breather pipe than the exhaust pipe.)

blowback -
A) External oil leaks from grommets, "o" rings, gaskets, hoses etc. that "blowback" around the engine/transmission during riding covering almost everything and making it difficult to tell where the oil is leaking from as it accumulates on the garage floor in different places.

B) Air fuel mixture and or exhaust gases blowing back past a leaky intake valve and many times igniting with a loud pop in the intake area.

C) (two strokes) when a high performance tuned engine is set up for high rpm power band (usually with piston skirt controlled intake vs rotary valve intake) there will be air/fuel mixture "blowback" out of the carburetor at lower than power band rpm.

I'm assuming that the OP was referring to blowback type A). It seems doubtful that the top end needs rebuilding but it probably needs a valve clearance adjustment at 32K (has it ever had one?) and oil leaks could be checked for at that time.

GREAT info/feedback!!!! I haven't had any leaks at any point. I just had the valves checked and they were all in specs at that time about 6-7k miles ago. I feel the bike is running lean only because I do hear popping at times off the throttle. I had the ECU flashed like 6 months.

 

[IBAJIM]

Until this thread popped up I had never heard of anybody having to add oil, didn't even know it was a thing.

I've never had to add to mine, but then I do ride like grandma & it's still low mileage.

Actually from what I have read, riding like Grandma on a newer bike is not a good idea. It may prevent the compression rings from seating properly and result in blow-by.

Check this out and the pics toward the bottom of the page :

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

 

[djsammy1]

Actually from what I have read, riding like Grandma on a newer bike is not a good idea. It may prevent the compression rings from seating properly and result in blow-by.

Check this out and the pics toward the bottom of the page :

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

Thank you for the article. To be honest I agree with the article. I have always ran my engines pretty aggressively out the box and NEVER had any issues. I did notice a little more than normal metal shavings the first 2 or 3 oil changes but after that solid riding. Thanks again.

 

[djsammy1]

UPDATE!!!! My initial issue was burning oil and having to add oil 1/2qt after 2,000 miles. I had checked the following: oil leaks, oil drops/stains, smoke, spark plugs, valves were done 6-7 thousand miles ago (more now). I checked the oil on the center stand with a 2x4 under the front tire to make it level and with the bike in the up right position. I changed the oil (10/40 Mobile1 4T) at the 32,005 I am currently at 32,803 and the oil hasn't moved. Image 1 is from 7/18/21 connie picture is 8/01/21. Hasn't budged . Not sure what caused the low oil but seems to be fine. I know its still early but this is good news so far. Someone recommended 20w/50 but I was hesitant because I've been using the same oil for MANY years. I will continue to monitor and provide a few more updates. Thank you everyone for your support.

 

[djsammy1]

SAD, SAD,SAD day Well I had to add over half qt. around 1,500 after an oil change. I called around and it would be cheaper to do an engine swap instead of getting it fixed or just get another one. I will keep adding oil till the time comes. But if any talented individual needs a winter project, my bike may be available (I live in Maryland Montgomery County). Its sad with just 34,000 miles....Thank you all for your recommendations!!!

 

[Bud]

I bet it will survive a long time, even with the oil consumption. Don't let it get to you.

 

[Tim R]

I will take everyone’s advice and just monitor the oil consumption add oil when needed and take it from there. The mechanic recommended 20w/50 semi synthetic. Any thoughts. ?

I know, I know a different bike/motor/etc. But it might pertain. I did an oil change on my 900 with a semi synthetic 10 40. went a on COG ride that was spirited for maybe half of the approximate 170 mile round trip. I got home and parked the bike. A few days later I decided to take her out and put her on the center stand in the spot in my garage that I use to check oil on motorcycles. Your garage floor might look level but I found this is not always the case. So I use the same place in the garage. No boards under the front tire unless it is needed to level an slope. Which my back patio is.

Something in the back of my head said to check oil level before taking her out again. I found there was NO oil in the sight glass. The air filter had a small round spot on it which would be caused by blow by. So. I changed the oil and filter. I used 10 40 dino and installed a new air filter. I've been checking for oil consumption but 60 -70 mile trips are not showing oil consumption or blow by at all.

Yesterday, I went on an approximate 132 mile round trip. At times traffic was moving at a good pace at 70, 70+. Keep in mind speed limit is 60 with many campers and boats on the road. On the trip home I ran into and fought a horrible head wind. So the motor was working a bit harder IMHO than if the wind had a lessor velocity. A C14 would have not gotten blown around but the 900 sure did. I almost got blown off the road during a rather stiff gust. This had me trying to suck the seat cover off the seat when that happened. Having a windshield is nice compared to going old school nakid.

Checking the oil after sitting for about 10 hours and with cooler ambulant temperatures, I found the oil level to still on the full mark. (Maybe a 32nd lower) but this could be contributed to a significantly lower ambient temperature than when the oil was changed. The air filter was clean with no evidence of more than normal blow by. (which isn't much) In fact the air filter was pretty darn clean. The 900's air filter is made of white filter material which looks like paper. Blow by is ran through an oil separator then through a tube which goes to the bottom of the air box. This tube is directly under the bottom of the air filter with maybe an inch of clearance.

Take aways. When I changed the semi synthetic I found that the oil was extremely slick between the fingers. (a very inexpensive scientific test btw) This oil was fairly fresh by being changed at the start of the season. Most would think being slick is a good deal which of course it is. But I wonder if it was so slick the oil rings could not wipe the cylinder walls like they do with traditional dino. Previous to using the semi synthetic this bike virtually did not use oil between oil changes. I did not experience new oil seal leaks. I have read motors using synthetic will use a little oil. Using synthetic in my C14 has not seemed to be an issue. But I think I will use the semi synthetic and see what happens.

Some might wonder the condition of the cylinder head on the 900. This bike although 47 years old has abut 32K on the clock. Some might remember the bent valve saga I went through with this bike. So, intake valves are new with all new valve springs and seals including the exhaust side are relatively new. (maybe 4K) General health of the motor is good with the plugs burning with correct color. Starts easily MOST of the time. In general this is an easy starting bike. BTW, the OM requires oil changes at every 2k with a oil/filter change at every 4K. Typically I change both at 2k or there abouts. If the shifter gets cranky, this is a sure sign it wants new oil. Vale checks are done every 4K. Valve checks take me about 2 hours from Tank off to tank on. I wish I could say the same for the C14. I don't do those, I just pay the shop rate.

I am going to continue monitoring the oil level on the 900. Confidence in taking a long trip with this bike has been compromised. Not a big deal because if any real distance is involved, the C14 goes.

 

[Merle Lowe]

I've had cars that used more than that and still went many tens of thousands of miles. I'd just keep topping it off and monitor.

On the other hand, I'm visiting family in Howard county, so if you really want to let it go cheap, I could rent a trailer to get it home in Georgia.

 

[djsammy1]

I know, I know a different bike/motor/etc. But it might pertain. I did an oil change on my 900 with a semi synthetic 10 40. went a on COG ride that was spirited for maybe half of the approximate 170 mile round trip. I got home and parked the bike. A few days later I decided to take her out and put her on the center stand in the spot in my garage that I use to check oil on motorcycles. Your garage floor might look level but I found this is not always the case. So I use the same place in the garage. No boards under the front tire unless it is needed to level an slope. Which my back patio is.

Something in the back of my head said to check oil level before taking her out again. I found there was NO oil in the sight glass. The air filter had a small round spot on it which would be caused by blow by. So. I changed the oil and filter. I used 10 40 dino and installed a new air filter. I've been checking for oil consumption but 60 -70 mile trips are not showing oil consumption or blow by at all.

Yesterday, I went on an approximate 132 mile round trip. At times traffic was moving at a good pace at 70, 70+. Keep in mind speed limit is 60 with many campers and boats on the road. On the trip home I ran into and fought a horrible head wind. So the motor was working a bit harder IMHO than if the wind had a lessor velocity. A C14 would have not gotten blown around but the 900 sure did. I almost got blown off the road during a rather stiff gust. This had me trying to suck the seat cover off the seat when that happened. Having a windshield is nice compared to going old school nakid.

Checking the oil after sitting for about 10 hours and with cooler ambulant temperatures, I found the oil level to still on the full mark. (Maybe a 32nd lower) but this could be contributed to a significantly lower ambient temperature than when the oil was changed. The air filter was clean with no evidence of more than normal blow by. (which isn't much) In fact the air filter was pretty darn clean. The 900's air filter is made of white filter material which looks like paper. Blow by is ran through an oil separator then through a tube which goes to the bottom of the air box. This tube is directly under the bottom of the air filter with maybe an inch of clearance.

Take aways. When I changed the semi synthetic I found that the oil was extremely slick between the fingers. (a very inexpensive scientific test btw) This oil was fairly fresh by being changed at the start of the season. Most would think being slick is a good deal which of course it is. But I wonder if it was so slick the oil rings could not wipe the cylinder walls like they do with traditional dino. Previous to using the semi synthetic this bike virtually did not use oil between oil changes. I did not experience new oil seal leaks. I have read motors using synthetic will use a little oil. Using synthetic in my C14 has not seemed to be an issue. But I think I will use the semi synthetic and see what happens.

Some might wonder the condition of the cylinder head on the 900. This bike although 47 years old has abut 32K on the clock. Some might remember the bent valve saga I went through with this bike. So, intake valves are new with all new valve springs and seals including the exhaust side are relatively new. (maybe 4K) General health of the motor is good with the plugs burning with correct color. Starts easily MOST of the time. In general this is an easy starting bike. BTW, the OM requires oil changes at every 2k with a oil/filter change at every 4K. Typically I change both at 2k or there abouts. If the shifter gets cranky, this is a sure sign it wants new oil. Vale checks are done every 4K. Valve checks take me about 2 hours from Tank off to tank on. I wish I could say the same for the C14. I don't do those, I just pay the shop rate.

I am going to continue monitoring the oil level on the 900. Confidence in taking a long trip with this bike has been compromised. Not a big deal because if any real distance is involved, the C14 goes.

Thank you for that bit of information. I think I will take similar actions as in change the oil type and change the air filter to a cloth/paper filter (currently have a K&N). But as recommended, I am just going to ride it till it goes. I am in the market for an 2008/2009 no rush but hopefully find a good deal and keep my bike for parts. Sounds good in my head LOL...but have a slight case of clutter phobia and a bike as a paper weight in my garage wont last long!!!

 

[djsammy1]

I've had cars that used more than that and still went many tens of thousands of miles. I'd just keep topping it off and monitor.

On the other hand, I'm visiting family in Howard county, so if you really want to let it go cheap, I could rent a trailer to get it home in Georgia.

hmmmm....not yet lol....I'm having a hard time letting it go especially when she rides like a champ.

 

[2andblue]

Interestingly I had a moment of acute oil consumption / loss over our vacation. C-14 has 40K miles.

First 3,300 miles (before vacation) oil stayed completely level no change then during middle of trip and a single day of 400 miles sustained high speed and at times high RPM as well the oil level dipped. This oil level was checked same parking spot and location before riding and then next day before riding...

Went to Autozone grabbed a QT and added 8 ounces of oil back to full then rode another 1,500 miles with some of the same exhilaration and no oil loss..

Got home from trip, still full, changed oil next day @ 6,300 miles and now after 600 miles no change.

Unsure where the oil went other than through the combustion chamber? There are no leaks, coolant level is not added to in the reservoir. The day was very warm with a temp riding of 99*F in one location! Engine ran at at normal temp, two bars, except three as usual if sitting in traffic at a town for too long.

I glance at my oil often and never had this happen before - when I noticed oil was suddenly on lower side of sight glass I was extra aware to see if there was a whiff of smoke at startup (valve guide leak) but nothing .

I run Valvoline 10W40 Full Synthetic, have since 2nd oil change, and shoot for changing every 5,000 miles - this time a little over.

There was nothing alarming about the used oil color, smell, etc. There is no performance difference of the machine. I’m just going to ride it like I stole it and continue to monitor.

Wayne, Carol & Blue

 

[djsammy1]

Interestingly I had a moment of acute oil consumption / loss over our vacation. C-14 has 40K miles.

First 3,300 miles (before vacation) oil stayed completely level no change then during middle of trip and a single day of 400 miles sustained high speed and at times high RPM as well the oil level dipped. This oil level was checked same parking spot and location before riding and then next day before riding...

Went to Autozone grabbed a QT and added 8 ounces of oil back to full then rode another 1,500 miles with some of the same exhilaration and no oil loss..

Got home from trip, still full, changed oil next day @ 6,300 miles and now after 600 miles no change.

Unsure where the oil went other than through the combustion chamber? There are no leaks, coolant level is not added to in the reservoir. The day was very warm with a temp riding of 99*F in one location! Engine ran at at normal temp, two bars, except three as usual if sitting in traffic at a town for too long.

I glance at my oil often and never had this happen before - when I noticed oil was suddenly on lower side of sight glass I was extra aware to see if there was a whiff of smoke at startup (valve guide leak) but nothing .

I run Valvoline 10W40 Full Synthetic, have since 2nd oil change, and shoot for changing every 5,000 miles - this time a little over.

There was nothing alarming about the used oil color, smell, etc. There is no performance difference of the machine. I’m just going to ride it like I stole it and continue to monitor.

Wayne, Carol & Blue

THANK YOU!!!!! we have the same exact issue. Next time you start it put a white sheet or paper behind the exhaust and see what happens. I get a small amount of oil specs. Accelerate it a few times. I definitely have some blow by. If you read my post I have no smoke, leaks power loss, smells, radiator fluid is normal. I can ride about 2,000 miles before I have to add oil. So Far received 2 estimates over $4,000. 1 shop said its cheaper to do an engine swap than to fix it. Not doing that. I guess just ride it till it can run anymore.

 

[2andblue]

I think difference in our experiences is I had a sudden loss that developed in only 400 miles - one day. Morning to night somehow 8oz of oil went somewhere…? Has not happened before and has not happened since.

We will see what happens - like you though I’m not worried about it - I will though try the paper in exhaust stream and let you know the result.

 

[Tim R]

One more thought....if performance starts dropping off. If oil is escaping through the exhaust, your catalytic converter might be compromised.

 

[Merle Lowe]

THANK YOU!!!!! we have the same exact issue. Next time you start it put a white sheet or paper behind the exhaust and see what happens. I get a small amount of oil specs. Accelerate it a few times. I definitely have some blow by. If you read my post I have no smoke, leaks power loss, smells, radiator fluid is normal. I can ride about 2,000 miles before I have to add oil. So Far received 2 estimates over $4,000. 1 shop said its cheaper to do an engine swap than to fix it. Not doing that. I guess just ride it till it can run anymore.

"I guess just ride it till it can run anymore."

My prediction is that'll be a long time. As an example, when I got my 1990 Civic from my neighbor, it had a blown head gasket. When I popped the head off I found a giant gouge in the #3 hole and a heli-coil in the #3 plug hole. Coincidence? lol. Anyway, new head gasket installed at 250k and it's still going along with piston slap (believe it has a collapsed skirt) and about 60-psi on #3 at 335k. It chugs about 1 qt every 1000 miles and sounds like a diesel when it's cold but it keeps going. Puffs out blue smoke with every shift. I still spin it to the fuel cutoff and happily run it 80+ on the interstate which is about 4k rpm. If that wreck keeps running, then your C14 will be eternal. No worries.

 

[djsammy1]

One more thought....if performance starts dropping off. If oil is escaping through the exhaust, your catalytic converter might be compromised.

I read this post and . I kept hearing a tapping sound at start up and gradually got louder. I heard it on the highway a few times. My face smile indicator was a 2 out of 5. Got home removed the fine tupperware and whata ya know.. I was missing a header bolt on the left side. Added the bolt took it for a ride and face smile indicator was a 5 once again. So thank you.

 

[2andblue]

I think difference in our experiences is I had a sudden loss that developed in only 400 miles - one day. Morning to night somehow 8oz of oil went somewhere…? Has not happened before and has not happened since.

We will see what happens - like you though I’m not worried about it - I will though try the paper in exhaust stream and let you know the result.

No oil on paper. Added another 700 miles this weekend and no oil loss.

 

[djsammy1]

No oil on paper. Added another 700 miles this weekend and no oil loss.

Thats a good sign...lucky for you. This was my weekly test today 9/7/21. I rode over 200 miles on Monday and the oil level is fine. I will keep riding it till I get tired of adding oil and find another good deal on another Concours.

 

[GRR125]

In your initial post, you said the shop said a top-end job was indicated, but you didn't explain why they did that evaluation or came to that conclusion. In a later post you said the plugs were changed and valves done, but you didn't indicate if your oil consumption problem existed before that procedure. If before, did you inspect the plug condition? Were the valves checked by a reputable and experienced mechanic? How far out of spec were they? In other words, what is the history of your problem, when did it start to occur, and were there any changes made prior to the problem arising? You said you had the valves done 7k ago, and are now at 32k, so you were either 10k over-due, or 5k early for the valve check. Overly-tight valves, left too long, could burn a valve set and promote oil leakage.

Is it a Cal-spec bike with the smog plumbing, or 49-state version? Has the bike ever been over on its side?

If the photo you posted is the result of a single start-up, run thru a 4-into-1 exhaust, it sure appears like you've got a serious leak of soemthing. Does it do that on every start up? Does it smell like more like oil, gas or coolant?

What does the paper look like if you hold it behind the exhaust when running, after startup? In other words, is this something that is caused after shutting the bike down and letting it sit, or is it a constant condition while it's running? What is the color of oil in the engine after 800 miles? After 1500 miles?

A hassle, but it would be interesting if you were to mount up a four pipe exhaust to see if it's coming from all 4 cylinders, or isolated to one or two.

My reading of the FSM finds there are only three places oil could get into the exhaust flow: past the rings from the crankcase, overhead valve oil channels or crankcase breather hose.

The pragmatic way to determine the source would be to get a dry, and wet compression test done (ring leakage) and leak-down test done (valve leakage). That would tell you most of what you need to know to determine which direction to go.

HTH, Gary

 

[2andblue]

Thats a good sign...lucky for you. This was my weekly test today 9/7/21. I rode over 200 miles on Monday and the oil level is fine. I will keep riding it till I get tired of adding oil and find another good deal on another Concours.

Gary, in the next post from your last, added some real good points. I am curious though in three things that others may be able to easily replicate exactly what you did.

1. Was the paper test done when engine was cold and had sat?
2. How long did you hold the paper there to accumulate the ejection and at what distance?
3. Have you done the paper test on a warmed up engine and is result the same?

Thank You for sharing this most interesting topic.

 

[djsammy1]

In your initial post, you said the shop said a top-end job was indicated, but you didn't explain why they did that evaluation or came to that conclusion. In a later post you said the plugs were changed and valves done, but you didn't indicate if your oil consumption problem existed before that procedure. If before, did you inspect the plug condition? Were the valves checked by a reputable and experienced mechanic? How far out of spec were they? In other words, what is the history of your problem, when did it start to occur, and were there any changes made prior to the problem arising? You said you had the valves done 7k ago, and are now at 32k, so you were either 10k over-due, or 5k early for the valve check. Overly-tight valves, left too long, could burn a valve set and promote oil leakage.

Is it a Cal-spec bike with the smog plumbing, or 49-state version? Has the bike ever been over on its side?

If the photo you posted is the result of a single start-up, run thru a 4-into-1 exhaust, it sure appears like you've got a serious leak of soemthing. Does it do that on every start up? Does it smell like more like oil, gas or coolant?

What does the paper look like if you hold it behind the exhaust when running, after startup? In other words, is this something that is caused after shutting the bike down and letting it sit, or is it a constant condition while it's running? What is the color of oil in the engine after 800 miles? After 1500 miles?

A hassle, but it would be interesting if you were to mount up a four pipe exhaust to see if it's coming from all 4 cylinders, or isolated to one or two.

My reading of the FSM finds there are only three places oil could get into the exhaust flow: past the rings from the crankcase, overhead valve oil channels or crankcase breather hose.

The pragmatic way to determine the source would be to get a dry, and wet compression test done (ring leakage) and leak-down test done (valve leakage). That would tell you most of what you need to know to determine which direction to go.

HTH, Gary

Good morning. I will do my best to answer all questions.
per my records valves and plugs were done at 24,200 by a reputable mechanic that is aware I am a year round rider and does extra when my bike is in the shop. The problem started after the valves and plugs estimated 6,000-8,000 later (my initial estimation was off). I noticed the specs of oil on my garage door early July but ignored it but it got worse as time went on, so thats how I know it started this year and my oil was lower than usual for me. I keep it right in between the lines. Not sure if its a Cal spec. The bike has never been on its side. It does that at every start up and it dies down as the bike warms up but still spits a little. Surprisingly No smell of any kind not even oil normal exhaust smell. oil color is normal from 800-1500. A compression test has not been done. Ive reached out to 2 other reputable shops and they are assuming its the orings and seals. They are convincing me that its not worth the $$$ to fix and cheaper to do an engine swap due to cost of repairs. The bike rides great with no power loss, hesitation or indications of a problem..One other note to add is that I noticed it sounds like it rattles a little more at start up than the usual but than goes away. This is my second concours so I am familiar with the start up sound and this one is a little louder than it was before. Thank you for taking the time for the questions.

 

[djsammy1]

Gary, in the next post from your last, added some real good points. I am curious though in three things that others may be able to easily replicate exactly what you did.

1. Was the paper test done when engine was cold and had sat?
2. How long did you hold the paper there to accumulate the ejection and at what distance?
3. Have you done the paper test on a warmed up engine and is result the same?

Thank You for sharing this most interesting topic.

Hello...I rode about 60 miles parked the bike then about 3 hours later started it up and oil on the paper. so i would say it was cold.
I start the bike the normal rattle sound goes through its cycle and then the oil spits out. I would say for about 2-4 seconds (estimate). It continues to spit a very small amount.
I did do the test with the bike warmed up and it spits a little nothing like start up. It spits small specs every start up.
Thank you.
I think a compression test is needed to get a better diagnoses!!

 

[2andblue]

Hello...I rode about 60 miles parked the bike then about 3 hours later started it up and oil on the paper. so i would say it was cold.
I start the bike the normal rattle sound goes through its cycle and then the oil spits out. I would say for about 2-4 seconds (estimate). It continues to spit a very small amount.
I did do the test with the bike warmed up and it spits a little nothing like start up. It spits small specs every start up.
Thank you.
I think a compression test is needed to get a better diagnoses!!

WOW - My guess would be an exhaust valve guide - thus you are not blowing blue or fouling plugs and it’s heavier on startup since oil accumulated atop the valve.

 

[GRR125]

I agree with 2andblue - it sounds most likely to be a leaking valve or valve seal, as oil likely accumulates in the head when stopped, leading to start-up spitting but not much while running.
I don't think the cost of a valve job would come close to the cost of buying and replacing the entire engine, the condition of which you can only guess.
I would just ride it until performance is unacceptable or intolerable, then sell the entire bike for a replacement.

 

[2andblue]

GREAT info/feedback!!!! I haven't had any leaks at any point. I just had the valves checked and they were all in specs at that time about 6-7k miles ago. I feel the bike is running lean only because I do hear popping at times off the throttle. I had the ECU flashed like 6 months.

Do you feel comfortable to share what was the cost of the valve check where all valves were found to be in spec.? Did you get actual clearance measurements or instead a general all in spec diagnostic on the valve clearances ?

How long did it take the mechanic to check the valves?

Checking the valves is extraordinarily time consuming on this machine.

Were the valves ever checked before 25K?

 

[djsammy1]

Do you feel comfortable to share what was the cost of the valve check where all valves were found to be in spec.? Did you get actual clearance measurements or instead a general all in spec diagnostic on the valve clearances ?

How long did it take the mechanic to check the valves?

Checking the valves is extraordinarily time consuming on this machine.

Were the valves ever checked before 25K?

I will have to check in a few days the cost and if I was given a spec sheet. I called the shop but no notes were indicated soo hmmm...the work sheet just said adjustment and plugs. My bike was in the shop almost 2 days. I don't think they were ever checked. I am the second owner. Thank you.

 

[djsammy1]

I agree with 2andblue - it sounds most likely to be a leaking valve or valve seal, as oil likely accumulates in the head when stopped, leading to start-up spitting but not much while running.
I don't think the cost of a valve job would come close to the cost of buying and replacing the entire engine, the condition of which you can only guess.
I would just ride it until performance is unacceptable or intolerable, then sell the entire bike for a replacement.

So far I was told $3,500-$4,500 or I can do an engine swap for under $3,000 lol (crazy talk). I can find a good used for that price. I am currently kicking tires looking for another one in the mean time. Sad because it rides great. If I do decide to sell it, it will definitely be for parts or as is with the disclaimer of issues and my COG post for a better understanding of the issue and full awareness. I m not the type to sell a bike with ANY kind of issues, I like to live with a clean conscious. Thank you.

 

[Ivan_ipp]

If your oil in exhaust problem started after someone had your valve cover off, then 99% you have oil leaking into your exhaust port(s) through the dowel pin(s) that connect to the reed valves in the valve cover.

The valve cover will have to be removed again and replace the spark plug seals.

See attached photo.

 

[djsammy1]

If your oil in exhaust problem started after someone had your valve cover off, then 99% you have oil leaking into your exhaust port(s) through the dowel pin(s) that connect to the reed valves in the valve cover.

The valve cover will have to be removed again and replace the spark plug seals.

See attached photo.

I will drop it off next week and show the mechanic your recommendation and at the same time do another valve adjustment. This will be my last attempt. My issue has many baffled due to the reliability of the connie’s. I’m sure this attempt will cost $350-$500. But the bike rides so good it’s worth a try. Fingers crossed. Might be too early for a shop to do the job, fair weather riders are still out

 

[Bagger John]

Ivan's observation is pretty timely. I'm getting ready to pull the valve cover on my '12 and check clearances. All parts are inventoried and go in protective bins as I take them off the engine, and all parts, gaskets, seals, dowels, etc. are carefully cleaned and inspected as I replace them. That's probably why I take twice as long to do this job as compared to most.

I got my first C14 (an '08 ABS) with 5k on the clock. A buddy owned it and broke it in from new the same way I did my '12: Run the factory-supplied oil til 600mi on the clock, change oil and filter (using dino at this change) and finally to full synthetic at 3k. The '08 now has 22k on the clock and uses no oil. The '12 has 15k and has the usual weeping valve cover gasket. It consumes no oil otherwise and while I don't abuse either bike, they aren't ridden in Grandpa fashion by any means.

Good luck with getting yours fixed. Yes, the bike is worth it.

 

[djsammy1]

Ivan's observation is pretty timely. I'm getting ready to pull the valve cover on my '12 and check clearances. All parts are inventoried and go in protective bins as I take them off the engine, and all parts, gaskets, seals, dowels, etc. are carefully cleaned and inspected as I replace them. That's probably why I take twice as long to do this job as compared to most.

I got my first C14 (an '08 ABS) with 5k on the clock. A buddy owned it and broke it in from new the same way I did my '12: Run the factory-supplied oil til 600mi on the clock, change oil and filter (using dino at this change) and finally to full synthetic at 3k. The '08 now has 22k on the clock and uses no oil. The '12 has 15k and has the usual weeping valve cover gasket. It consumes no oil otherwise and while I don't abuse either bike, they aren't ridden in Grandpa fashion by any means.

Good luck with getting yours fixed. Yes, the bike is worth it.

thank you John.I will be looking for other options to get it fixed. I live in Montgomery County Maryland but willing to drive some distance if someone can recommend a reputable mechanic. The local shop is good but if someone can give a HIGHLY recommended experience concours mechanic, I would greatly appreciate the contact.

 

[2andblue]

Ivan's observation is pretty timely. I'm getting ready to pull the valve cover on my '12 and check clearances. All parts are inventoried and go in protective bins as I take them off the engine, and all parts, gaskets, seals, dowels, etc. are carefully cleaned and inspected as I replace them. That's probably why I take twice as long to do this job as compared to most.

I got my first C14 (an '08 ABS) with 5k on the clock. A buddy owned it and broke it in from new the same way I did my '12: Run the factory-supplied oil til 600mi on the clock, change oil and filter (using dino at this change) and finally to full synthetic at 3k. The '08 now has 22k on the clock and uses no oil. The '12 has 15k and has the usual weeping valve cover gasket. It consumes no oil otherwise and while I don't abuse either bike, they aren't ridden in Grandpa fashion by any means.

Good luck with getting yours fixed. Yes, the bike is worth it.

Just replace all rubber, would not bother with getting that much labor into it to just have a bad o-ring, seal, gasket that was reused lead to an oil leak. Murphs Kits sells a consolidated valve spec check kit.

 

[2andblue]

Ivan's observation is pretty timely. I'm getting ready to pull the valve cover on my '12 and check clearances. All parts are inventoried and go in protective bins as I take them off the engine, and all parts, gaskets, seals, dowels, etc. are carefully cleaned and inspected as I replace them. That's probably why I take twice as long to do this job as compared to most.

I got my first C14 (an '08 ABS) with 5k on the clock. A buddy owned it and broke it in from new the same way I did my '12: Run the factory-supplied oil til 600mi on the clock, change oil and filter (using dino at this change) and finally to full synthetic at 3k. The '08 now has 22k on the clock and uses no oil. The '12 has 15k and has the usual weeping valve cover gasket. It consumes no oil otherwise and while I don't abuse either bike, they aren't ridden in Grandpa fashion by any means.

Good luck with getting yours fixed. Yes, the bike is worth it.

Just replace all rubber, would not bother with getting that much labor into it to just have a bad o-ring, seal, gasket that was reused lead to an oil leak. Murphs Kits sells a consolidated valve spec check kit.

 

[djsammy1]

Just replace all rubber, would not bother with getting that much labor into it to just have a bad o-ring, seal, gasket that was reused lead to an oil leak. Murphs Kits sells a consolidated valve spec check kit.

Thank you for the recommendation. Just to be clear is this the kit you are referring too. I know for certain this started after the valve adjustment, due to the fact that I was given the removed spark plugs from my bike and they had normal wear nothing alarming. I will try your advice and try and schedule another valve adjustment, with the kit attached. Thank you.

 

[2andblue]

Thank you for the recommendation. Just to be clear is this the kit you are referring too. I know for certain this started after the valve adjustment, due to the fact that I was given the removed spark plugs from my bike and they had normal wear nothing alarming. I will try your advice and try and schedule another valve adjustment, with the kit attached. Thank you.

Yes correct, get this kit.

Then I would also suggest these oil pipe o-rings:

1. Kawasaki P/N: 670D1509
2. Quantity: 12

These are recommended in the FSM for replacement - from what I gather not many are replacing.

 

[djsammy1]

Yes correct, get this kit.

Then I would also suggest these oil pipe o-rings:

1. Kawasaki P/N: 670D1509
2. Quantity: 12

These are recommended in the FSM for replacement - from what I gather not many are replacing.

Thank you. I will talk to mechanic on Tuesday and show him the past posts and feel him out. Also, will it require to replace 12 Orings? Never heard of oil pipe o-rings?

 

[2andblue]

Thank you. I will talk to mechanic on Tuesday and show him the past posts and feel him out. Also, will it require to replace 12 Orings? Never heard of oil pipe o-rings?

There are removable oil pipes (must come out for cam removal to adjust the shims) that feed oil through the valve train, if you lose pressure from a weeping o-ring you will sacrifice lubrication. Replace the o-rings on the pipes at the valve adjustment per the Kawasaki Factory Service Manual is what I recommend.

Let us know how you turn out here.

 

[djsammy1]

There are removable oil pipes (must come out for cam removal to adjust the shims) that feed oil through the valve train, if you lose pressure from a weeping o-ring you will sacrifice lubrication. Replace the o-rings on the pipes at the valve adjustment per the Kawasaki Factory Service Manual is what I recommend.

Let us know how you turn out here.

I greatly appreciate you/everyone’s assistance. I will provide the results hopefully in a few weeks.

 

[Bagger John]

Yes correct, get this kit.

Then I would also suggest these oil pipe o-rings:

1. Kawasaki P/N: 670D1509
2. Quantity: 12

These are recommended in the FSM for replacement - from what I gather not many are replacing.

I did exactly this yesterday - have Murph's kit on-hand and when I ordered shims I got the O-rings too. All rubber and the plugs get replaced if I've got that much of the bike torn apart.

 

[djsammy1]

I did exactly this yesterday - have Murph's kit on-hand and when I ordered shims I got the O-rings too. All rubber and the plugs get replaced if I've got that much of the bike torn apart.

We’re you having a an oil issue or just preventive maintenance

 

[Bagger John]

We’re you having a an oil issue or just preventive maintenance

PM - valve adjustments.

If you're that far into the engine, you replace every rubber part you encounter in the process. Seals, gaskets, O rings have a finite life span before embrittlement occurs - it's the nature of the chemical beast.