There was a bit of discussion in the C14 section about ABS. I ran into this video that I thought did a good job of showing the difference.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kO6ltk3a0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kO6ltk3a0
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ABS vs Non-ABS
- Thread starter Bud
- Start date
I was in this discussion on another forum. ABS is great, but over all it is making an awful lot of riders lazy. I saw a thread defending ABS on the other forum where folks would say they loved it, saves their butt 2-3 times A DAY! Others would say they just mash the brakes and activate the ABS all the time. I took an advanced riding course with my wife, and on my C10 I could out brake the BMW's with ABS because the riders never pushed their abilities feeling ABS will save them if needed. A lot of safety technical advances are great if they are used as a safety net, but it seems most people use them to dumb down their ability.
Just joined the Forum, first post. Two years ago I had a very large delivery truck make a left in front of me on a 55mph 4 lane. My 2006 BMW GSA did not have ABS and while panic stopping I had the rear wheel locked up but not the front. I could tell I wasn't going to get stopped in time and that if I hit the truck it would be in the passenger door, which would have been very bad, or, I would hit the truck in the cargo box, which was pretty high up. I would have had my torso hit the cargo box and my lower half would have gone under. Not a good option. I laid it down and I stopped just short of the truck but my bike hit it. I broke ten bones and had a punctured lung. I think ABS would have helped, and have decided that I will always buy bikes with ABS. When you are in a panic stop like that its not the same as practicing panic stops. You have too much going through your head trying to find ways out or minimize damage to be 100% focused on braking.
ABS isn't making riders lazy. Dual Clutch transmissions and electric bikes DO!
Since 1995 decline of almost 21% of manual gear box equipped cars in US market. That is SOLE indication of American motorists becoming indolent.
Note, ABS hasn't declined since then. On contrary, ABS has increased its spectrum of use.
BMW has already produced a self-driving motorcycle. Tested it on some track.https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/17847508/bmw-motorrad-self-driving-motorcycle
Can you see an enthusiast riding in a self-driving mode? Perhaps an nonfan of motorcycle who wants to impress peers?
Self-driving tech is THE major contributor to declining enthusiasm among motorists who are more interested in tech (bluetooth, navi and rear view cameras) which are contributing factors to drivers indolence!
DO not confuse safety item like ABS with indulgence of bluetooth or rear view camera!
Americans, it is FACT, are more disinterested in driving dynamics than they are in tech that contributes to brain atrophy!
Cheers!
Since 1995 decline of almost 21% of manual gear box equipped cars in US market. That is SOLE indication of American motorists becoming indolent.
Note, ABS hasn't declined since then. On contrary, ABS has increased its spectrum of use.
BMW has already produced a self-driving motorcycle. Tested it on some track.https://www.theverge.com/2018/9/12/17847508/bmw-motorrad-self-driving-motorcycle
Can you see an enthusiast riding in a self-driving mode? Perhaps an nonfan of motorcycle who wants to impress peers?
Self-driving tech is THE major contributor to declining enthusiasm among motorists who are more interested in tech (bluetooth, navi and rear view cameras) which are contributing factors to drivers indolence!
DO not confuse safety item like ABS with indulgence of bluetooth or rear view camera!
Americans, it is FACT, are more disinterested in driving dynamics than they are in tech that contributes to brain atrophy!
Cheers!
Not when your front tire meets cold/wet concrete slab sprinkled with post-accident antifreeze/oil mix.lather said:
All my bikes were non-ABS. C14 is the first ABS. I am strong proponent of this tech on any motor vehicle, more-so on a bike.
+1 ABS :great:RoadKillHeaven said:Not when your front tire meets cold/wet concrete slab sprinkled with post-accident antifreeze/oil mix.lather said:
All my bikes were non-ABS. C14 is the first ABS. I am strong proponent of this tech on any motor vehicle, more-so on a bike.
If ABS kicks in you have done something wrong, or missed an indicator that you should have already been going slower or begun stopping sooner.
As a CSC instructor and examiner for M2 to M Motorcycle licensing in Ontario, Canada - i have seen students come on course to play/practice first thing in the day and use ABS to the max as that is what they thought they should do. We give them a number of exercises in a closed parking lot - one of which of course is an emergency stop area.
I am now specifically instructing riders to work on their emergency skills for braking rather than using the ABS abilities they paid for. It is a totally different set of skills (ABS takes no skill at all!) and for sure proper emergency braking beats ABS braking anytime for a skilled and competent rider.
Weight transfer MUST occur to the front wheel (TIRE!) to allow expansion of the contact patch to increase traction. Increased traction = more braking power able to be applied. That has to be gradual (quick gradual - but don't grab the front brake!)
ABS turns brake function off then on (many times/really quickly) so that expansion of tire to pavement never occurs (or is minimised once enabled) if you just grab and trust your ABS. it may keep you upright and get you stopped but it will never beat proper manual application of brakes for shortness of path!
Scan to stay out of harms way. Practice emergency braking several times each year in controlled areas. Realise you are doing the first part wrong if you use the emergency stopping skills you have practiced more than once or twice each riding year (more if your lucky to be in a high mileage area>)
Would I pay for ABS on any new bike now? Probably. The increase in cost is not that much anymore. Will I replace my 86 to get it? NOPE!
Cal
As a CSC instructor and examiner for M2 to M Motorcycle licensing in Ontario, Canada - i have seen students come on course to play/practice first thing in the day and use ABS to the max as that is what they thought they should do. We give them a number of exercises in a closed parking lot - one of which of course is an emergency stop area.
I am now specifically instructing riders to work on their emergency skills for braking rather than using the ABS abilities they paid for. It is a totally different set of skills (ABS takes no skill at all!) and for sure proper emergency braking beats ABS braking anytime for a skilled and competent rider.
Weight transfer MUST occur to the front wheel (TIRE!) to allow expansion of the contact patch to increase traction. Increased traction = more braking power able to be applied. That has to be gradual (quick gradual - but don't grab the front brake!)
ABS turns brake function off then on (many times/really quickly) so that expansion of tire to pavement never occurs (or is minimised once enabled) if you just grab and trust your ABS. it may keep you upright and get you stopped but it will never beat proper manual application of brakes for shortness of path!
Scan to stay out of harms way. Practice emergency braking several times each year in controlled areas. Realise you are doing the first part wrong if you use the emergency stopping skills you have practiced more than once or twice each riding year (more if your lucky to be in a high mileage area
>)Would I pay for ABS on any new bike now? Probably. The increase in cost is not that much anymore. Will I replace my 86 to get it? NOPE!
Cal
Scan to stay out of harms way.
The only way to stay safe besides not riding at all.
The only way to stay safe besides not riding at all.
You guys all make good points, but...
In a dire emergency, the most frequent that really can hurt us, when someone pulls out in front of us because they are completely clueless, I don't want to have to modulate my braking to let the front end settle and increase my contact patch - the ABS controller will do that 100 times faster than I can, and deliver more braking, sooner, than I ever could. I just have to squeeze as hard as I possibly can, and let the computer do the rest... and it will do this to both tires at the same time. That 70/30 Front/Rear, the ABS controller can do it, every time it's asked to.
To make matters one more degree of difficulty... where is that horrible scenario most likely to occur? at an intersection. What to almost all intersections have? painted lines. Wet or dry, the friction coefficient of my tires on bare pavement is not the same as the lines. Again, the ABS controller will "take care of that detail" for me. My job is to clamp the brakes, and look for an escape.
Sorry, a racer CAN outbrake ABS, but they determine when they will apply the brakes, they know how much traction is available, and it is a smooth and consistent surface; not exactly what we face when we ride.
I purchased my wife's bike because it has ABS, and I got a C14 instead of another C10 mostly for the same reason.
I do not see myself ever going back to a non-ABS bike.
Good discussion guys! of course my opinion is the most valid :truce:
In a dire emergency, the most frequent that really can hurt us, when someone pulls out in front of us because they are completely clueless, I don't want to have to modulate my braking to let the front end settle and increase my contact patch - the ABS controller will do that 100 times faster than I can, and deliver more braking, sooner, than I ever could. I just have to squeeze as hard as I possibly can, and let the computer do the rest... and it will do this to both tires at the same time. That 70/30 Front/Rear, the ABS controller can do it, every time it's asked to.
To make matters one more degree of difficulty... where is that horrible scenario most likely to occur? at an intersection. What to almost all intersections have? painted lines. Wet or dry, the friction coefficient of my tires on bare pavement is not the same as the lines. Again, the ABS controller will "take care of that detail" for me. My job is to clamp the brakes, and look for an escape.
Sorry, a racer CAN outbrake ABS, but they determine when they will apply the brakes, they know how much traction is available, and it is a smooth and consistent surface; not exactly what we face when we ride.
I purchased my wife's bike because it has ABS, and I got a C14 instead of another C10 mostly for the same reason.
I do not see myself ever going back to a non-ABS bike.
Good discussion guys! of course my opinion is the most valid :truce:
Just pretend you have a friend that will offer you an opportunity to ride on his non-ABS enabled bike. You head out on the road and crank it on and almost immediately that bone-head driver you always watched out for appears right in front of you. No swerve opportunity - just stop or else!
You apply the most practised method you have to get stopped as fast as you can - and the front end immediately goes like its on grease. Because you don't know how to stop your bike in an emergency with anything less than ABS.
Now if you had practised emergency braking using the threshold technique (ie - increase the braking power as quickly as is safe to the threshold of almost losing traction) you may have actually gotten stopped or at least reduced speed enough for the hit to be survivable.
I teach riders to ride almost any version of bike and to understand the technique required to get the bike stopped as quickly and safely as possible. that requires weight transfer forward so that traction is maximised as soon as possible and maximum braking can progress at that time.
oh - and I also do my best to have them not ride with their fingers on the front brake all the time - as human reaction is to grab/clench; the micro-seconds required to move the hand to and begin squeezing the front brake scrubs off (valuable time - yes!) that grab factor that causes the front tire to skid and become useless.
i strongly beleive what i teach is valid and meets the needs in the majority of riding cases. ABS if you have it can meet a small subset of situations where traction has been compromised. It will (should) allow you to eventually get stopped in a controlled manner if you have time/space for ABS to do it. i am confident a trained and practiced rider can beat the stop time of an ABS all the way stop.
Cal
You apply the most practised method you have to get stopped as fast as you can - and the front end immediately goes like its on grease. Because you don't know how to stop your bike in an emergency with anything less than ABS.
Now if you had practised emergency braking using the threshold technique (ie - increase the braking power as quickly as is safe to the threshold of almost losing traction) you may have actually gotten stopped or at least reduced speed enough for the hit to be survivable.
I teach riders to ride almost any version of bike and to understand the technique required to get the bike stopped as quickly and safely as possible. that requires weight transfer forward so that traction is maximised as soon as possible and maximum braking can progress at that time.
oh - and I also do my best to have them not ride with their fingers on the front brake all the time - as human reaction is to grab/clench; the micro-seconds required to move the hand to and begin squeezing the front brake scrubs off (valuable time - yes!) that grab factor that causes the front tire to skid and become useless.
i strongly beleive what i teach is valid and meets the needs in the majority of riding cases. ABS if you have it can meet a small subset of situations where traction has been compromised. It will (should) allow you to eventually get stopped in a controlled manner if you have time/space for ABS to do it. i am confident a trained and practiced rider can beat the stop time of an ABS all the way stop.
Cal
I participate in IPSC training. I attend shooting range. I carry concealed gun in condition "0". Does it mean I am extremely proficient in a combat or superbly ready to defend myself? Hell No. But it is a start.
Same goes for average motorcycle rider, which I am, who can't or won't participate in riding classes or attend track to hone riding skills. Most of us aren't skilled enough to be "locked&loaded" at all times when riding motorbikes.
ABS will ameliorate any situation where "average" person isn't capable to prepare for emergency braking.
Electronics have much higher degree of reaction than human will ever posses.
ABS is NOT panacea to all emergency situations. But for most, it will work and save you from killing yourself or others.
But by all means, teach people how to control motorcycle in a bad situation. It is noble cause. I mean it.
Cheers...
Same goes for average motorcycle rider, which I am, who can't or won't participate in riding classes or attend track to hone riding skills. Most of us aren't skilled enough to be "locked&loaded" at all times when riding motorbikes.
ABS will ameliorate any situation where "average" person isn't capable to prepare for emergency braking.
Electronics have much higher degree of reaction than human will ever posses.
ABS is NOT panacea to all emergency situations. But for most, it will work and save you from killing yourself or others.
But by all means, teach people how to control motorcycle in a bad situation. It is noble cause. I mean it.
Cheers...
You have to remember that ABS was not developed to shorten stopping distances. The insurance industry crunched numbers a determined many accidents were a result of lose of steering control and stability during (panic) breaking. This line of reasoning ignores tailgating and target fixation. The ability to maintain threshold braking will result in shorter stopping distances than relying on abs even though the modern systems are greatly improved for original. That being said if you find yourself in a situation involving abs actuation start searching for a way past by steering to an escape route (should have already been planned by then)
I won't buy a bike again without ABS unless it is some classic where there's no other way to buy it.
I was commuting to work in Renton and passing through the "Renton S Curves" in morning rush hour traffic. I was getting off in a couple exits, but I saw the traffic backing up seriously and getting packed. It looked like they were moving, just at about 20 mph. I started looking for a hole to slip into and start making my way across four lanes of traffic. I saw one behind a delivery truck. Smaller than I liked and with no visibility...but it looked like the best plan at the time.
I pulled in behind him and immediately realized he was slowing down...a lot. What I didn't realize was that he was coming to a complete stop and I couldn't see anything in front of him. I grabbed the brakes on my Honda for all I was worth. After stopping, I wondered what that pulsing sensation was...and figured out that must've been the ABS kicking in. On dry clean pavement and while being upright.
Could I have stopped quicker without ABS? I don't know. I also know now that I should've gone a bit further down the road and picked a different vehicle to pull in behind. But like I said, it seemed like the best idea at the time. I've only had about 6-7 times when I've had to grab the brakes hard. I'd like that advantage of having ABS in the tool chest for when I do something like this that wasn't so smart.
Chris
I was commuting to work in Renton and passing through the "Renton S Curves" in morning rush hour traffic. I was getting off in a couple exits, but I saw the traffic backing up seriously and getting packed. It looked like they were moving, just at about 20 mph. I started looking for a hole to slip into and start making my way across four lanes of traffic. I saw one behind a delivery truck. Smaller than I liked and with no visibility...but it looked like the best plan at the time.
I pulled in behind him and immediately realized he was slowing down...a lot. What I didn't realize was that he was coming to a complete stop and I couldn't see anything in front of him. I grabbed the brakes on my Honda for all I was worth. After stopping, I wondered what that pulsing sensation was...and figured out that must've been the ABS kicking in. On dry clean pavement and while being upright.
Could I have stopped quicker without ABS? I don't know. I also know now that I should've gone a bit further down the road and picked a different vehicle to pull in behind. But like I said, it seemed like the best idea at the time. I've only had about 6-7 times when I've had to grab the brakes hard. I'd like that advantage of having ABS in the tool chest for when I do something like this that wasn't so smart.
Chris
I would much rather have MSC than ABS.....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHRWg91hv-M
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHRWg91hv-M
"I would much rather have MSC than ABS"
That makes better sense when rationalising the investment to me - and it really does include ABS in the MSC mix of tools.
For one thing - you are going around the curve while intentionally braking so yes you stay in your path better. But if you were actually trying to stop the quickest way possible I would be hard pressed to change my training/habit of straightening the bike out first to better enable hard braking.
Cool video. Hope that rider gets paid big to intentionally push the bike to a crash!
Cal
That makes better sense when rationalising the investment to me - and it really does include ABS in the MSC mix of tools.
For one thing - you are going around the curve while intentionally braking so yes you stay in your path better. But if you were actually trying to stop the quickest way possible I would be hard pressed to change my training/habit of straightening the bike out first to better enable hard braking.
Cool video. Hope that rider gets paid big to intentionally push the bike to a crash!
Cal
ConcoursKZ
Sport Tourer
Anyone who doesn't like ABS most likely has never owned a bike with it. Amazing technology. 60,000 on my bike and it was needed maybe 5 times. 1 of which saved me from death and 1 from hitting 4 deer. Non ABS would have been ugly.
I am all for ABS on the streets. It is true that a very good rider can probably stop as good or slightly better than ABS, (like mentioned before) there are way too many variables for the common rider. Wet spots, Painted lines, oil deposits on center of lanes, uneven pavement, dirt, other drivers. If I have help on the braking part, I can pay more attention on those. I've been riding sport bikes since 91 and put over 350k miles (estimate, I think its more). Right now I have a 05 R1 (love it), 10 ninja 250 and a 10 Concours with ABS. Taken all of them to the track. The ABS can surely bring that heavy concours to a stop really quick.
Also, when I first started riding and watching Motogp and other races I liked a racer named Arafumi Abe. He wasn't a mere-mortal rider and he passed away riding a scooter when a box truck made a left in front of him. I don't know if ABS would of helped him, but if a man on top of the game can go that way, I as a mere-mortal, would/will take advantages like ABS if I can get them.
Also, when I first started riding and watching Motogp and other races I liked a racer named Arafumi Abe. He wasn't a mere-mortal rider and he passed away riding a scooter when a box truck made a left in front of him. I don't know if ABS would of helped him, but if a man on top of the game can go that way, I as a mere-mortal, would/will take advantages like ABS if I can get them.
I'm a fan of ABS and buying my new to me 2104 C-14 with it was a major selling point for me to buy it.
Here's why: With ABS you can fully jam on the brakes; that part of the equation is over, fast. Then you can concentrate on doing what comes next to solve your problem, swerving or maneuvering to not hit what ever causing you to fully brake in the first place.
I've practiced full performance stops on my C-14 and I don't think I could beat my ABS with non-ABS.
With ABS the Connie stops quickly! And you can still steer.
My two cents from the cheap seats.
Here's why: With ABS you can fully jam on the brakes; that part of the equation is over, fast. Then you can concentrate on doing what comes next to solve your problem, swerving or maneuvering to not hit what ever causing you to fully brake in the first place.
I've practiced full performance stops on my C-14 and I don't think I could beat my ABS with non-ABS.
With ABS the Connie stops quickly! And you can still steer.
My two cents from the cheap seats.
I don't want to rain on your parade but your bike did not decelerate better sliding on its side than it would have had you kept it upright and hard on the brakes. You have created a thing in your mind that doesn't bear out in the physics of motorcycling. This is every crash story ive ever heard, "i knew i wasn't going to make it". Well, that means you mentally eliminated the option of the most effective deceleration tool at your disposal. You need to reexamine that thought process, and i realize that it's difficult because it's rooted in a traumatic experience. Always keep it upright and on the brakes. Stay safe out there.Dark Helmet said:
) ) )responding to a "one post" person, that posted over a year ago... is kind of moot.
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
just mentioning.. :truce: :beerchug: :beerchug:
MAN OF BLUES said:
Thanks Cpt Obvious, here's where i point out your response to a response by a one post person from over a year ago. Go ahead and reply again and we'll just keep the cycle going. :beerchug:
responding to a "one post" person, that posted over a year ago... is kind of moot.
:rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
just mentioning.. :truce: :beerchug: :beerchug:
Nickrides said:
Mine is non ABS (by choice -- distrust techno-gadgetry), but I'm inclined to think you are quite correct (especially for us average -- or less -- riders). My ABS will never malfunction, nor will it need maintenance, but I have tattooed in my head that if I ever lock the rear wheel in a panic stop, I need to keep it locked until I get stopped (to help mitigate high-siding), a habit I've used seldom -- but for years.
Yes, I recall the same technique from my MSF class. Great to keep in mind, for sure!dcstrng said:
I totally agree. I was riding in South Dakota and came upon a motorcycle wreck. The LEO came over and told me the rider had "laid it down". I replied that if he had enough skill to "lay it down", that he had enough skill to avoid the accident entirely. He thought for a second and chuckled at the logic in that.HeavyRotation said:
Chris
Gsled said:
THIS
ABS is not intended to shorten stopping distance. The owner's manuals for my GMC truck and Wee-Strom both contain statements that in some cases vehicles with ABS may take a LONGER distance to stop than those without. ABS is solely intended to prevent wheel lock, and thereby help the operator to maintain some modicum of control in a panic situation. Locked wheels are detrimental to control.
I came around a sweeping right curve on a county road several years ago with the Wee-Strom at about 50 MPH, and encountered a flock of peacocks, about a dozen or so, and they took up all of my lane. Opposing traffic on the other lane and a very deep ditch on the right shoulder made evasive maneuvers questionable, even if I had time to set it up, which I didn't. Admittedly, I also panicked (no one likes to admit that). I slammed the brakes, and managed to thread my way between a couple of the birds, with literally an inch or two to spare. I could feel the ABS pulsing the rear brake and I am absolutely convinced that it kept me from sliding out of control. A high-side then would probably have launched me into the opposing traffic. I'm certain in my own mind that the Concours "auto-lock" rear brake would have wrecked me. It would have been my own fault, but fault doesn't matter when yer dead.
On the other hand, I think that if ABS is truly saving your life on a daily basis, you need to rethink your riding habits.
I was a non ABS guy and thoughts were it dumbed down rider skill/ability. I changed my mind with my first ABS bike years ago. It was wonderful...However I'm not a fan of the brakes on my Concours, worst I've ever had in 40 years of riding. I don't believe it's the ABS, my thoughts are it's the 2012 model year specifically and it's more attributed to the "linked brakes" Mine suck. I've gone through everything, fluid and hard parts. People say you have to get used to it, or use the front only as it will apply both, yata yata yata. Shouldn't need to get used to crappy brakes.
Tundra said:
I believe ABS is a good thing on motorcycles.
I however dont care for linked brakes and particularity HATE how its done on the C14.
When I was shopping a Sport Tourer several years ago I tried a 2011 C14.
I so disliked the linked brakes, I promptly bought an FJR.
Just recently I found out that in 2010 they made the Gen 2 Connie 14 without linked brakes (and without ABS/Traction Control).
I would like ABS and traction control, but sought out and found a 2010 Non ABS bike.
I really like the brakes on this bike, heck I like the whole bike.
This, unfortunately will rank up there with a tire or oil thread. I am curious Roadkillheaven, you say abs is safety, however rear view cameras and blind spot avoidance is not. I disagree, as all of this is to help prevent unwanted occurances. It is how it is adapted by the users. It dumbs down a lot of operators. Traction control is another one. That rear view camera could save a child that runs behind a monster SUV from the passenger side. Even if you walked behind the truck before backing up and turned to watch as backing up. I have ridden with many riders that tailgate, and their response when I say anything is "I have abs, so I'm good". That is not dumbing down a rider? Or the guy I met years ago with an RR1000, all decked out and worked over. His riding buddy told me he never took the bike out of rain mode. He was petrified of it. Not dumbing down? I don't have a lot of miles, less than 400,000 street miles. I have raced a lot of different forms of bikes and cars but in no way claim to be an expert rider. I have avoided 2 animal hits because I didn't have abs, and have had none that would have been avoided if I had abs. I work on older abs bikes that have big issues with the abs systems as home care is not always easy or possible and some people can't afford or just don't believe in taking their bike to a dealer for maintenance. If you ride or plan on buying a newer bike, most likely you will have abs. Just make sure you keep practicing your braking so that time you nail the binders in the rain and there just happens to be an oil spot right there, the abs does what it should do and saves you. Not that you were't covering the brake and figured you didn't need to and now will be paying the piper. We all have different past experience and abilities, and there is no right or wrong on this. We all need to ride what we are comfortable with. But, that is just my opinion.
Funny, my interest in ABS started when I noticed new cars were out braking my C10 in emergency stops. Those people who cut in front then break hard to make a right hand exit turn usually are the culprits. They cut you off by entering your safe break lead and then brake hard. Couple of weeks back had a 38ish women in town blast about 18 inches past me in the right lane then made a left turn across my path. I had to out turn her to survive. Not sure if ABS would help in those situations as I have had only my limited skill set and the blind luck defensive situational awareness gives one. In traffic, I am like a very scared fighter pilot with no bullets these days! Cell phones be damned!
Oh, my brakes are up to snuff would think and newly rebuilt. Pads are EBC up front do not remember the pad type off the top. about 6k on them now. The rear pads are older and just about getting to wear point. I have new non sintered pads to go on this winter sometime. I am also working on Brembo caliper early model mounting plates at moment for front.
But still curious about ABS. One thing I have noted in my study of them on motorcycles is that there is no failsafe backup. Seems units mechanisms would be very susceptible to debris from brake fluid breakdown. Air trapped on poor bleeding too! Seems extra special care would be in order for maintenance. With the new lawsuits we might yet see some design changes. Fly by wire perhaps instead of the electro/mechanical solenoids. Also completely separate front /rear solenoids. Believe BMW did this early on. Time will tell.
Yeah as a of necessity would be fighter pilot, might like a rear view camera!
Oh, my brakes are up to snuff would think and newly rebuilt. Pads are EBC up front do not remember the pad type off the top. about 6k on them now. The rear pads are older and just about getting to wear point. I have new non sintered pads to go on this winter sometime. I am also working on Brembo caliper early model mounting plates at moment for front.
But still curious about ABS. One thing I have noted in my study of them on motorcycles is that there is no failsafe backup. Seems units mechanisms would be very susceptible to debris from brake fluid breakdown. Air trapped on poor bleeding too! Seems extra special care would be in order for maintenance. With the new lawsuits we might yet see some design changes. Fly by wire perhaps instead of the electro/mechanical solenoids. Also completely separate front /rear solenoids. Believe BMW did this early on. Time will tell.
Yeah as a of necessity would be fighter pilot, might like a rear view camera!
I hope you guys who faithfully rely on ABS rather than skill never have your ABS fail. I put over 100,000 miles on a Z1-R, and have over 50,000 miles logged on my 03 Connie, without ABS, and I like it. Learning trail-braking and other braking skills will save your butt. I have almost done a stoppy with my fully loaded Connie when a pickup driver pulling a trailer failed to look in my direction before pulling out in front of me. I also have no use for infotainment centers, self-driving vehicles, GPS, and other forms of distraction. Better to be prepared and aware.
I almost did a stoppy once. I was commuting south to work through the Renton S Curves... Normally, I'd start moving over from the HOV lane to my exit in a couple miles, but I could see the traffic was coming to a crawl. I find it difficult to maneuver a heavy bike in bumper to bumper traffic when you are barely moving fast enough to keep your balance, and you don't know if the guy to the side will give you enough room to move over, and you don't know if the vehicle in front of you will come to a full stop with no warning.Rastus said:
So I decided to move over a few lanes while traffic was still moving. I pulled in behind a delivery truck. Didn't like it, and while it wasn't as large of a space as I'd liked to have, it was more than anything else I could see available. By the way, we're slowing down from 60 mph. As soon as I pulled in behind the delivery truck, it started braking hard. I grabbed the brakes hard, maintaining my spacing only just barely. There was no time to think, only to react.
After we all got slowed down, I realized I'd felt this pulsing feeling in the brakes. Hmmm...must've been the ABS kicking in for the first time! Oh wow!! And this was on clean dry concrete pavement.
It made me a believer in ABS.
Chris
One of my previous bikes didn't have ABS, but newer models did. I didn't care too much about ABS at the time, but I was thinking that instead of holding onto the bike, to sell it then and not later. As time would go on, more and more bikes would have ABS and new buyers would be looking for that.
Bottom line...it wasn't whether I thought ABS was good or not, but what a prospective buyer would feel.
Chris
Bottom line...it wasn't whether I thought ABS was good or not, but what a prospective buyer would feel.
Chris
I'm not sure who posted this picture, but it was quite a few years ago. It was a COG member, I think. Not sure of the whole story, either, but I think it had something to do with not enough stopping distance. I saved it because it was just a very interesting picture.
If the OP is still around and objects, I'll delete this post and apologize.
If the OP is still around and objects, I'll delete this post and apologize.
Attachments
You can see the impact on the front rim and fender destruction. I suspect the car still moved forward a tad. I hope the rider was ok.
Another reason to leave lots of room out front.
Another reason to leave lots of room out front.