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Black Widow Header

turbojoe78

Member
Member
I just came off of 2-3/4 years running a Muzzy full exhaust for a ZX14 and wanted to let people know what I am finding.
The Muzzy is built very much like the full Area-P system and uses the same flash with just about the same results.
After reading all the threads about the different systems that are out there for us now I started to question just what I wanted for my riding style.

Last January I updated to Shoodaben's newest premium flash. Steve asked me to let him know how I liked it after a few 1st gear 4K rpm WOT runs. WOW, both times I tried it, the traction control kicked in to keep the front wheel on the ground. The bike took off like a shot and after 6K was a whole other animal, you really need some wide open spaces to appreciate what the bike could do with that setup. Throughout the rest of the year I thought about what I had and what I was using it for. Most of my riding is commuting on the highway in moderate to heavy traffic. Although I had no problems with the way the bike performed I thought more and more about how much of the bikes performance I was using ... I wasn't using the bike for what it could do, I was using it for what I needed, knowing what it could do.

Last winter I bought myself a Black Widow header for Christmas. The install of the header went without a hitch, everything fit nice and tight and I followed it up with a 18” Delkevic Carbon Fiber Oval I had when running the stock head pipes. On 3/22/21 I received my re-flashed ECU (Shoodaben MRP) and have a little over 300 miles on it so far.
What I’ve noticed the most so far is the way the bike responds to light to medium throttle input in the 2K to 4K rpm range. It’s as if the motor were a tightly wound spring just waiting to be released. Small throttle increases seem so much stronger and sharper than they did with the Muzzy on. The Muzzy had no problem with getting out of its own way when I felt the need to get around slower traffic, but the BW seems to do the same thing with less twist of the wrist and is a little quicker to respond.

I haven’t seen any Dyno charts showing a C14 with the BW header or full system yet, but would be interested to see the torque curve as it seems to build torque real quick. I have Dyno charts of my bike with the stock exhaust, and with the Delk slip-on and may get it back on the Dyno when it warms up a little to compare the difference between the stock header and the BW.

The bike stock was impressive coming from a C10, but had issues with abrupt throttle responses that made it much less smooth. An ECU flash took care of most of the abruptness and the Delk slip-on made it sound like a bike that meant business. The Muzzy made the world above 6K rpm incredibly exciting but I just wasn’t going to that world very often, and I’m pretty sure my neighbors didn’t like the sound of the bike as much as I did at 5:15 AM. The performance I have with the BW now seems to fit the bill more than any combination of exhaust and flash I have had yet. It will get to triple digits in no time at all, is smooth from idle on up and feels stronger in the RPM range I ride the most in. Joe C
 
Good insights Joe - thanks for sharing!

Joe I believe there’s an event in NH this year - if you’re going let’s link up.
 
Nice writeup Joe. Folks need to learn to stop looking at peak HP #'s at peak rpms when buying performance goodies, and to target the range they really want to enjoy the most often.

For street riders, thinking more like "road race" tuning is going to be better than "drag race" tuning.

Steve
 
Steve can dyno runs be performed accurately at partial throttle, various gears etc.

If so - I think that would be a great addition to the advertising you do for your product and then to your point also different exhausts, different flash options.
 
I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on the BW header based on what has been shared here and in recent (other) posts. I know this is subjective, but how is the sound with this header vs. stock? I would like more sound over the stock, but I don't want to wake the dead if I happen to leave my neighborhood at 5:15 am. Is it someone tame unless I get ON it? I know it's subjective, depending on the individual, unless someone knows the dB differences.

By the way, I already have an Area P slip-on exhaust w/ Steve MRP flash.
 
i just installed bw full exhaust. sound db killer never installed and you won't have too the bw muffler is nice and long and absorbs plenty of the loud stuff. you will hear it when you whack it though. still not knarly loud. i had two brothers can on first which was a tad louder with the full system. here is the black round stainless bw can.
 

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I'm thinking about pulling the trigger on the BW header based on what has been shared here and in recent (other) posts. I know this is subjective, but how is the sound with this header vs. stock? I would like more sound over the stock, but I don't want to wake the dead if I happen to leave my neighborhood at 5:15 am. Is it someone tame unless I get ON it? I know it's subjective, depending on the individual, unless someone knows the dB differences.

By the way, I already have an Area P slip-on exhaust w/ Steve MRP flash.
RR; Based on my bike/OEM 2006 ZX-14 header/Area P Mufflers/MRP Flash, I think your nearly there. I feel the BW is similar to the header I have, but it is a better design. (same head pipe OD's, same cylinder pairing, etc, & "better layout")
The BW would be a lot easier to install as the ZX headers have 2 mufflers.
,,,,Making them fit a Connie takes some back yard engineering.

NOTE: I previously had the MR Flash on the bike, and moved to the MRP.
With my ZX header setup, the MRP worked better than the MR.
Power delivery is smoother in the lower throttle settings, and at WOT the acceleration is awesome.
Bottom line; The MRP works great with my set up, and the (2) Area P Mufflers aren't overly loud.

2andblue; On the partial throttle testing, I have some experience in doing partial throttle tests like this on Auto's. So, I'll take a swing at the answer.
It is doable, could be a tool to help in tuning, but probably not very useful for sharing.
Reason; It takes a thorough understanding of Dyno plots to understand what the Partial Throttle plots are showing. & Exact set ups (for comparison) are very hard to do.
ie; {partial throttle runs} are almost impossible to compare with on differing bikes, or bikes that are run on another dyno. Too many variables.

Ride safe, Ted
 
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RR; Based on my bike/OEM 2006 ZX-14 header/Area P Mufflers/MRP Flash, I think your nearly there. I feel the BW is similar to the header I have, but it is a better design. (same head pipe OD's, same cylinder pairing, etc, & "better layout") The MRP works great with my set up, and isn't overly loud.
NOTE: I previously had the MR Flash and the MRP was an improvement with the header.

2andblue; On the partial throttle testing, I have some experience in doing tests like this on Auto's. So, I'll take a swing at the answer.
It is doable, could be a tool to help in tuning, but probably not very useful for sharing.
Reason; It takes a thorough understanding of Dyno plots to understand what the Partial Throttle plots are showing. & Exact set ups (for comparison) are very hard to do.
ie; {partial throttle runs} are almost impossible to compare with on differing bikes, or bikes that are run on another dyno. Too many variables.

Ride safe, Ted
Understood on the variables, more difficult to have a control comparison.

With the correct control measures in place would provide tremendously valuable visuals to the curves discussed here.

Even then these possible visuals don’t convince all, e.g. conjecture / keyboard engineers - I recall one member noted there is no additional / significant usable power produced with an AreaP full exhaust - there is only a sound perceived performance improvement. LOL...
 
if you buy bw, don't buy on ebay. buy directly from bw, they will ship immediately it's quite painless. craftsmanship ship is par excellence
tidbits on install, tools, fyi can be found on chrismpero aftermarket header thread. it covers it all😉
 

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RR; Based on my bike/OEM 2006 ZX-14 header/Area P Mufflers/MRP Flash, I think your nearly there. I feel the BW is similar to the header I have, but it is a better design. (same head pipe OD's, same cylinder pairing, etc, & "better layout") The MRP works great with my set up, and isn't overly loud.
NOTE: I previously had the MR Flash and the MRP was an improvement with the header.

2andblue; On the partial throttle testing, I have some experience in doing partial throttle tests like this on Auto's. So, I'll take a swing at the answer.
It is doable, could be a tool to help in tuning, but probably not very useful for sharing.
Reason; It takes a thorough understanding of Dyno plots to understand what the Partial Throttle plots are showing. & Exact set ups (for comparison) are very hard to do.
ie; {partial throttle runs} are almost impossible to compare with on differing bikes, or bikes that are run on another dyno. Too many variables.

Ride safe, Ted
Thank you connie_rider! After having read the various posts, this sounds like the route to go, for me, getting rid of the cat in the stock header, among other improvements.
 
if you buy bw, don't buy on ebay. buy directly from bw, they will ship immediately it's quite painless. craftsmanship ship is par excellence
tidbits on install, tools, fyi can be found on chrismpero aftermarket header thread. it covers it all😉
Thanks! I believe I read that elsewhere too; another thread. Yes, I plan to purchase directly from manufaturer. Thanks for pointing me to the tips on how to install it.
 
The ebay listing shows the headers and the muffler that I selected to be in stock, where direct from the manufacturer only shows the headers themselves to be in stock. It has been that way for about 2 months when I was thinking about buying the BW for my bike.

Now I am not finding the mufflers either on ebay.

Is there something about buying from ebay that is bad?
 
As I recall, Ebay costs more. Also, you may not be dealing directly with the manufacturer.
ie; You may be dealing with an agent/seller of BW in the USA.

Justathought: It's possible that agent in USA may still have some in stock (they show 9 in stock), and BW in Eu. does not.

Ride safe, Ted
 
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i started out with header install only going with my two brothers can. i changed my mind and went bw can in the back. road runner i have two brothers ovel carbon fiber muffler/midpipe for sale if interested. im close to bama in georgia. bolts right on to bw header. make me a offer
 

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Maverick's offer is a good deal for someone. Would work on any C-14, and the TBR's sound great.

By the way; Has anyone seen a Dyno plot of a Connie with a Black Widow exhaust?
I tried to find one with no luck.

Ride safe, Ted
 
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Maverick's offer is a good deal for someone. Would work on any C-14, and the TBR's sound great.

By the way; Has anyone seen a Dyno plot of a Connie with a Black Widow exhaust?
I tried to find one with no luck.

Ride safe, Ted
I plan on getting one this season. I have a BW header and a Akra Slip on.
 
Sure, I'll be going to Robs Dyno service in Gardner Mass which is 1hr 45 mins from me in Connecticut. You're in PA?
 
I am in PA - always up for a nice ride. Scheeez might as well steam to the CA border.

Let me know when you are doing this and I’ll see what we can fit in. Have family in Fitchburg, MA, and all over eastern MA, NH, and ME...
 
Ok, thanks. (Just asking as I've heard of multiple locations).
I'm very happy with the MRP / my header set up, and have no need to try anything else.
This thing rocks!

Ride safe, Ted
 
headed to the dragon 4/22. will give a full report on performance. we have plenty of loop rides planned too. this will give me plenty of data.
 
i started out with header install only going with my two brothers can. i changed my mind and went bw can in the back. road runner i have two brothers ovel carbon fiber muffler/midpipe for sale if interested. im close to bama in georgia. bolts right on to bw header. make me a offer

Thanks for the offer maverick9611. I had the same two brother exhaust a couple of years ago and change to an Area P one. I understand my Area P will bolt right onto the bw header as well. Appreciated!

 
The ebay listing shows the headers and the muffler that I selected to be in stock, where direct from the manufacturer only shows the headers themselves to be in stock. It has been that way for about 2 months when I was thinking about buying the BW for my bike.

Now I am not finding the mufflers either on ebay.

Is there something about buying from ebay that is bad?

FYI: Just checked availability a few minutes ago and it still shows zero stock for anything other than the headers. << sad face >>

What's the deal dudes? Did y'all exhaust the supply of tig welding consumables (pun intended)? LOL
 
i started out with header install only going with my two brothers can. i changed my mind and went bw can in the back. road runner i have two brothers ovel carbon fiber muffler/midpipe for sale if interested. im close to bama in georgia. bolts right on to bw header. make me a offer

I'm interested to know more about the pricing, etc. Pls ping me when you get a chance (if it's still available - otherwise disregard). Thx, AB
 
headed to the dragon 4/22. will give a full report on performance. we have plenty of loop rides planned too. this will give me plenty of data.

How'd it go on the Dragon? Did y'all have good weather and were able to collect a large dataset? Inquiring minds want to know! Thx, AB
 
i posted info on aftermarket header thread. bounce over their and check it
 
if you buy header, i will sell ya the black stainless bw can/mid pipe to mate to it. im thinking of keeping the two brothers. I really like the carbon weave pattern. let me know. pm'd ya
 
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I just came off of 2-3/4 years running a Muzzy full exhaust for a ZX14 and wanted to let people know what I am finding.
The Muzzy is built very much like the full Area-P system and uses the same flash with just about the same results.
After reading all the threads about the different systems that are out there for us now I started to question just what I wanted for my riding style.

Last January I updated to Shoodaben's newest premium flash. Steve asked me to let him know how I liked it after a few 1st gear 4K rpm WOT runs. WOW, both times I tried it, the traction control kicked in to keep the front wheel on the ground. The bike took off like a shot and after 6K was a whole other animal, you really need some wide open spaces to appreciate what the bike could do with that setup. Throughout the rest of the year I thought about what I had and what I was using it for. Most of my riding is commuting on the highway in moderate to heavy traffic. Although I had no problems with the way the bike performed I thought more and more about how much of the bikes performance I was using ... I wasn't using the bike for what it could do, I was using it for what I needed, knowing what it could do.

Last winter I bought myself a Black Widow header for Christmas. The install of the header went without a hitch, everything fit nice and tight and I followed it up with a 18” Delkevic Carbon Fiber Oval I had when running the stock head pipes. On 3/22/21 I received my re-flashed ECU (Shoodaben MRP) and have a little over 300 miles on it so far.
What I’ve noticed the most so far is the way the bike responds to light to medium throttle input in the 2K to 4K rpm range. It’s as if the motor were a tightly wound spring just waiting to be released. Small throttle increases seem so much stronger and sharper than they did with the Muzzy on. The Muzzy had no problem with getting out of its own way when I felt the need to get around slower traffic, but the BW seems to do the same thing with less twist of the wrist and is a little quicker to respond.

I haven’t seen any Dyno charts showing a C14 with the BW header or full system yet, but would be interested to see the torque curve as it seems to build torque real quick. I have Dyno charts of my bike with the stock exhaust, and with the Delk slip-on and may get it back on the Dyno when it warms up a little to compare the difference between the stock header and the BW.

The bike stock was impressive coming from a C10, but had issues with abrupt throttle responses that made it much less smooth. An ECU flash took care of most of the abruptness and the Delk slip-on made it sound like a bike that meant business. The Muzzy made the world above 6K rpm incredibly exciting but I just wasn’t going to that world very often, and I’m pretty sure my neighbors didn’t like the sound of the bike as much as I did at 5:15 AM. The performance I have with the BW now seems to fit the bill more than any combination of exhaust and flash I have had yet. It will get to triple digits in no time at all, is smooth from idle on up and feels stronger in the RPM range I ride the most in. Joe C
Turbojoe,

I second everything you said, The biggest thing I noticed is it seems to be more snappy and responsive especially at light or partial throttle openings. Twice now I have launched unintentional wheelies, once while exiting a corner at about 4K RPMs Just a little quick snap of the wrist but not full throttle mind you, and the other time leaving the parking lot at work again just a partial throttle opening. I have the same setup as you BW header with an 18" CF Delkevic can, but with Ivan's flash. The flash was the biggest improvement, then later I got the slip-on and it was a minor improvement north of 5K rpm's, but after putting on the BW header, I seem to have much more mid-range, definitely more responsive, and I don't feel I have lost anything below 4K, but no way to tell for sure. Do you know of any dyno runs with this header? Install went without a hitch, I already had the bike torn down for a valve-check and I had the radiator off to change coolant, so I had wide-open access. The pipes sure fit together real tight , close tolerance, I didn't use any of that sealant they gave me, and I had no leaks.
 
my mileage took a hit though.
after cherohala skyway/wayah rd loop i was at 35 mpg.
more info on chris's aftermarket header thread
 
khager01, I have Steve's Mountain Runner Premium Flash, which I think is purposefully tuned to try to avoid the unintentional wheelies.

I think his Hammer Flash might act somewhat more like what you describe your's is doing.
 
Maverick, my mileage took a hit though.
after cherohala skyway/wayah rd loop i was at 35 mpg.
more info on chris's aftermarket header thread
Maverick, Somehow I suspect that your {SPG} ("Smile's per Gallon") went up "more" than your {MPG} ("Mile's per Gallon") went down... 😜

Ride safe, Ted
 
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Maverick, Somehow I suspect that your {SPG} ("Smile's per Gallon") went up "more" than your {MPG} ("Mile's per Gallon") went down... 😜

Ride safe, Ted
Same thing happened to me when I opened up the top end with the Full AreaP, I can get 50’s for mpg but cmon’ what’s the fun in that when I can now freely AND effectively use the entire RPM range.

Stock exhaust is so flat, even with a flash, up top. No experience with a slip-on probably helps some but the real restraint is further forward. ( someone will correct me if I am mistaken )
 
i agree, i don't care about mpg. just raw, clean power thats avail. thru out the whole rpm spectrum
 
"It just happens" that (on a C-10) I did back to back runs on my Dyno (to see how Slip-on's changed performance).
A slip-on (on a C-10} only allowed the engine to produce about 1-2 peak HP. (but it smoothed the torque curve. {ie; made it more flat})
Steve did a similar test {on a C-14} and got slightly more of an increase in peak HP.

Important: Surprisingly a slip-on {with baffle installed} produced less peak HP than a stock system.

Before you ask, I sold the Dyno. {Steve has it now}

Ride safe, Ted

PS: Are you 2 characters going to be at the National?
(If so, we can do a 3rd gear roll on and find out how the different headers are working). <evil grin>

NOTE: Recently, after a series of Roll-on's, an "ossifer of the law" came zooming up on us down the road.
{We suspect he heard the un-baffled mufflers talkin' and came running}.
Luckily, we had returned to near legal operation and he didn't give us a love note.
Bottom line; Multiple Roll-on's (with pipes that talk) can draw unwanted attention...
 
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PS: Are you 2 characters going to be at the National?
(If so, we can do a 3rd gear roll on and find out how the different headers are working).
I unfortunately cannot make it.

Until at least this fall time I will be stretched for time (mainly weekend rides only) - all I can do just for the local Williamsport, PA event early June 4-6... Good thing to be busy these days, on other hand less play time!
 
Dratt, Dratt, and double DRATT... :cry:

(So, maybe your near one another and can compare the Area P vs the Black Widow?)
Since your not there, maybe I'll find someone else to compare with that has a BW or AP.

Ride safe, Ted
 
"It just happens" that (on a C-10) I did back to back runs on my Dyno (to see how Slip-on's changed performance).
A slip-on (on a C-10} only allowed the engine to produce about 1-2 peak HP. (but it smoothed the torque curve. {ie; made it more flat})
Steve did a similar test {on a C-14} and got slightly more of an increase in peak HP.

Important: Surprisingly a slip-on {with baffle installed} produced less peak HP than a stock system.

Before you ask, I sold the Dyno. {Steve has it now}

Ride safe, Ted

PS: Are you 2 characters going to be at the National?
(If so, we can do a 3rd gear roll on and find out how the different headers are working). <evil grin>

NOTE: REcently, after a series of Roll-on's, an "ossifer of the law" came zooming up on us down the road.
{We suspect he heard the un-baffled mufflers talkin' and came running}.
Luckily, we had returned to near legal operation and he didn't give us a love note.
Bottom line; Multiple Roll-on's can draw unwanted attention...

LOL, yes he was in a bit of a hurry to see who the hooligans were that had scared his furry forest creatures. :^ )

Maybe when he saw two grizzled grey-hairs smiling and chatting at that intersection he got bored and drove off without doing his pretty lights, papers and pomp thing?
 
Hopefully someone w/ the BW header and a non-stock slip-on muffler (preferred Area-P) will be at our National Rally. Seriously, I would like to "hear" the setup. I assume there is a difference (in sound too) over the stock pipes. Seems like I read that here or elsewhere.

This year sometime I will moving in a new area and don't want to annoy the neighbors, if/when leaving home at 5 am.
 
I just bought a bike with the header and 14" can. It is pretty mellow until you get on it then it has a great tone IMO. I rode the bike 1,000 miles to get home and was worried it would be too loud but you can't even hear it on the highway.
Pun on words, but "sounds" similar to my stock header w/ Area-P can...sound-wise. Of course, there are other benefits too, without the cat. Thx for sharing.
 
When you walk around at the National {Parking Lot} you'll easily see many types of slip-on's.
Can hear the sounds from each.
It will be a bit more difficult to determine which have full systems, and "way" more difficult to know which header is on the bike.
Luckily, lie swapping/pit racing,,, can answer any questions.

My bike will be one of the few that has 2 Area-P cans err Slip-on's. (I'll talk/brag to anyone}.
See ya'll there...

Ride safe, Ted

PS: Tell yer brides; ya really "need" to be there!
 
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I'll have a B/W can in about a week. Later when winter comes around, I'll add a B/W header. For now too much adventure to be had to be down for very long.

Granted the Connie is not the only bike I own. But the windshield sure makes life easier more relaxing on a long haul. It's no fun when a big bug thumps you in the middle of the chest.
 
I'll have a B/W can in about a week. Later when winter comes around, I'll add a B/W header. For now too much adventure to be had to be down for very long.
6 HRS tops for average person to install a full exhaust system. If you can spare a day you could improve the rest of your riding season!

I do believe you will need a flash though, although, if you are getting a slip-on you likely already have or are getting a flash for that? And from what I believe I am hearing is for the BW full exhaust the slip-on tuning is adequate, so if already slip-on tuned you won’t have any downtime there.

FWIW doesn’t take that much time and get the bang for the rest of the season vs waiting to next year and wishing you hadn’t.
 
Yup. I am slow at doing most mechanical work any more. And I may do it a little earlier. But cash flow for the motorcycle stuff is a little low. I'm busy buying other things. I have a Win 1895 in 30 Government with a build date of 1916 on layaway. I need to get it out so I can play with. I need to buy brass. I found a set of dies at a yard sale for $20 bucks.
 
Hopefully someone w/ the BW header and a non-stock slip-on muffler (preferred Area-P) will be at our National Rally. Seriously, I would like to "hear" the setup. I assume there is a difference (in sound too) over the stock pipes. Seems like I read that here or elsewhere.

This year sometime I will moving in a new area and don't want to annoy the neighbors, if/when leaving home at 5 am.
If I have to leave the house at 5:30 AM the neighbors should have to get up too!;) No seriously it has a nice growl, but as long as you don't get on it thru the neighborhood you will be all right. Above 5K it gets real noticeable, BW Header, 18" Can, with baffle removed, and going down the highway at 3.5K-4K wind noise is still the biggest issue.
 
If I have to leave the house at 5:30 AM the neighbors should have to get up too!;) No seriously it has a nice growl, but as long as you don't get on it thru the neighborhood you will be all right. Above 5K it gets real noticeable, BW Header, 18" Can, with baffle removed, and going down the highway at 3.5K-4K wind noise is still the biggest issue.
Understood. thanks for the info.
 
Thanks, I saw that. I'm not leaving my finger prints just in case. :cool:
it’s more about the tool and the fugi lock nuts. it’s a must
 

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it’s more about the tool and the fugi lock nuts. it’s a must
although i sold off the bw can to texasdeveloper, it runs great on the twobrothers can. folks, these headers are the real deal. paired with a decent muffler and a ecu flash, you r looking at some serious fun. my mileage took a hit on the silver dragon but i don’t care. i want useable power all thru the rpm range. get that stock connie header and shi#can it. save weight, b happy.
 

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although i sold off the bw can to texasdeveloper, it runs great on the twobrothers can. folks, these headers are the real deal. paired with a decent muffler and a ecu flash, you r looking at some serious fun. my mileage took a hit on the silver dragon but i don’t care. i want useable power all thru the rpm range. get that stock connie header and shi#can it. save weight, b happy.
I didn't buy this bike for the mileage! Just saying!(y)
 
I just received my headers and muffler from black widow and found that that the strap was missing ( for the muffler) that secures it to the frame.

I also didn't get any directions on how to put it together. I guess I can figure that out from looking at pictures that some of you have provided, and have kind of done that, but I have one gasket that was sent that I can't figure out what it is for.

Anyone have an idea where I can pick up the strap over here, and anyone that has the directions from black widow that could send me a copy?

I have sent them a email and have been looking on there web site for send items. Haven't heard back yet.

EDIT: Found the strap, it had fallen between the sofa cushions when I was taking things apart.
 
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Thanks, BW emailed me the instructions.

I have them in pdf form if anybody wants them.

Now just need to figure out when to install everything. Probably around the fourth of July.

I'm interested to see any lessons-learned from your installation of the headers, and then what your perceptions are of torque/decibels/harmonics in comparison to the stock headers.

Congrats BTW, I'm confident you're going to enjoy! AB
 
I'm interested to see any lessons-learned from your installation of the headers, and then what your perceptions are of torque/decibels/harmonics in comparison to the stock headers.

Congrats BTW, I'm confident you're going to enjoy! AB
1st off, take your time. Lower the radiator and let it hang by the hoses unless you want to replace the Coolant then just remove. Replace the EX seals with rhe ones supplied, torque the EX flange nuts to 13lbs. I monitored DB with an app. I have the BW header and Akra pipe. With DB killers in I was as 95 @idle and 105ish under power, with em out I was @100ish DB at idle and 110-115 under power. Power is great, esp when flashed with by your tuner of choice. I went with Shoodaben and have the MRP with his tweak for the BW header.
 
A little info for TurboJoe. Did a woolich flash/KN filter/ Black Widow header and delkevic oval can on a friends 2009 Connie last year. He dynoed at 154 hp to the wheel from 136 hp stock I believe. He is 240 lbs. and runs with the side bags all the time. He is very happy with the power curve. I advised him to run the BW header based on R/D by Steve on several different header designs. I have an Area/P on my 2009. The bike is a beast above 5000 rpm. I am working on a installing an exhaust reducer to gain some low end TQ back. Will be doing before and after in the future and reporting back to the forum..Sean
 
A little info for TurboJoe. Did a woolich flash/KN filter/ Black Widow header and delkevic oval can on a friends 2009 Connie last year. He dynoed at 154 hp to the wheel from 136 hp stock I believe. He is 240 lbs. and runs with the side bags all the time. He is very happy with the power curve. I advised him to run the BW header based on R/D by Steve on several different header designs. I have an Area/P on my 2009. The bike is a beast above 5000 rpm. I am working on a installing an exhaust reducer to gain some low end TQ back. Will be doing before and after in the future and reporting back to the forum..Sean
Sean, how do you and your buddy's bikes compare in a Roll-on now?
Does his bike have a reducer now?
The "before and after" you referred to would be Roll-on tests?

Ride safe, Ted

Roll-on / defined;
 
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Hello Ted. Never did roll-ons with my Buddy. Maybe one day that will happen, I doubt it though. I don't see him being able to pull down my 09. My last dyno pull was 164 hp to the wheel Ted. I'm also eighty pounds lighter...He has no type of reducer. The before and after I am referring to is a baseline dyno on my Connie and a dyno after the reducer is installed...Sean
 
A little info for TurboJoe. Did a woolich flash/KN filter/ Black Widow header and delkevic oval can on a friends 2009 Connie last year. He dynoed at 154 hp to the wheel from 136 hp stock I believe. He is 240 lbs. and runs with the side bags all the time. He is very happy with the power curve. I advised him to run the BW header based on R/D by Steve on several different header designs. I have an Area/P on my 2009. The bike is a beast above 5000 rpm. I am working on a installing an exhaust reducer to gain some low end TQ back. Will be doing before and after in the future and reporting back to the forum..Sean
You may not see any difference on the dyno, but I bet you feel it in throttle sharpness when riding the bike. I'm looking forward to before / after dyno runs. What I did was fit the reducer to the midpipe or header section, then put the bike on the dyno and run it. Leave the bike on the dyno, remove the reducer, and run it again. I do 3 runs each way. you can average all 3, pick the best from each series, or pick a designated run #. I find run #2 of the series is a good place to make comparisons.
Understand that I did this work on other headers but not the area P specifically, so I'm using what I learned elsewhere and applying it across the spectrum. I have no indication that it won't work. If you gain throttle sharpness while street riding but have no gain or loss in HP, I still consider that a win.
Steve
 
Hello Ted. Never did roll-ons with my Buddy. Maybe one day that will happen, I doubt it though. I don't see him being able to pull down my 09. My last dyno pull was 164 hp to the wheel Ted. I'm also eighty pounds lighter...He has no type of reducer. The before and after I am referring to is a baseline dyno on my Connie and a dyno after the reducer is installed...Sean
We've often discussed the Area P system having the most peak hp, but not producing optimal low end torque.
We feel the BW has optimum low end but less peak HP.
So, wondering if the BW would initially pull a bit and then the Area pull away.

Before/after Roll-on comparisons would make it EZ to know the effect of installing the reducer in your Area P.
They would be a lot cheaper to do than a dyno and the effect of the reducer EZ to see.
{You could easily try the 1 5/8 and 1 7/8 reducers in the same day}.

NOTE: It's EZ to know if weight is the difference. ie; change bikes and repeat.

I'm always hoping to get more reports in the Roll-On discussion.

NOTE: In my roll-on's with an Area P vs my bike with (2008) ZX-14 headers,, my bike pulled away enough that the Area P pulled on me, but never passed me.
My tests may have been a fluke. Hoping to hear from others.

Ride safe, Ted
 
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