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Bluetooth Advice, please.

Rushfan Greg

Rushfan Greg

Guest
Guest
Hey guys. Okay so, I’m looking for a helmet to helmet Bluetooth device for my wife and me. The following are my wants and I will appreciate all advise. Keep in mind that I have NO frame of reference with this and I have NO idea what to search for. There are SOO many choices…I FREAKING OUT, HERE!!

The helmets that we’re using are Shoei Rf1100.

  1. Helmet to helmet with my wife is first priority (two-way conversation).
  2. Able to hear Nav commands from my phone.
  3. Music for my wife only (her phone). I’m not interested (necessarily), but independent music would be nice if I choose otherwise.
  4. A Bluetooth devise able to multi task all these would be ideal. Yanno, able to listen to music and still be able to hear nav commands, and make/take a phone call.
  5. I have no idea what else to ask for…(shrug)
Thank you all again,

Rf G
 
I have the SRL for my Shoei Neotech2 (Essentially a SENA) and it can do all of those things. I have also heard good things about Cardo products, which I think work just as well. I also hear that the Cardo has a much better sound quality than the Sena. I really only went with Sena becuase it was designed to fit in the Neotech.
 
mspickelmier said:
I have the SRL for my Shoei Neotech2 (Essentially a SENA) and it can do all of those things. I have also heard good things about Cardo products, which I think work just as well. I also hear that the Cardo has a much better sound quality than the Sena. I really only went with Sena becuase it was designed to fit in the Neotech.
Click to expand...

Is there a model number for the one you're using?
 
I'd go on eBay and buy one of the dual headsets they sell. They should work fine, and you won't pay much for them. If you decide later that you want to talk to others, then buy whatever brand you find the most people use to make connecting hassle free.

But for just talking to the wife, hearing GPS commands...you don't need to spend more than about $75.

Chris
 
I have the Cardo PackTalk Slim mounted to HJC Rpha 70 (x 2). I believe the Slim and the Bold are basically the same except for the form-factor. This system does everything on your list. I don't have experience with Sena, so others can chime in.

Some additional notes on the Cardo...
  • There are two separate bluetooth channels on the device, so you can have your phone automatically connect to bluetooth and have the communicators run on separate bluetooth channel talking to each other (and, whoever else you want to connect with). Or, use the second channel to connect to a GPS while you can still maintain a separate connection to your phone. Cardo also has a proprietary intercom protocol they call dynamic mesh (DMC) that allows riders to leave and rejoin a group (bluetooth won't allow this as far as I know). So, you choose to run in either bluetooth or DMC mode. DMC only works with Cardo units, but you can switch to bluetooth and link to people on Sena, etc.
  • Communication is seamless. Just talk - no significant delay, no clipped words when you start talking
  • You can give voice commands to the Cardo (e.g. "Hey Cardo...volume up") as well as voice commands to your phone ("Hey Siri...Call Kimberly").
  • Option for speed-sensitive volume adjustment
  • These units are also waterproof (IP67) and very low profile on the side of the helmet. I've run through some serious monsoons - never an issue.
  • Battery life is great...easily lasts a full 8+ hours on the bike.
  • Cardo provides occasional firmware updates, which you obtain by downloading their sync software to a computer and then connecting your computer to your Cardo via USB.
  • Sound quality is very good. You do need to speak up a bit more at highway speeds to make sure you're heard over the wind. I use earplugs and can still hear conversation well unless I'm hauling a$$ through South Dakota o_O. Cardo has since released a newer version that has JBL speakers. Can't say I feel the need for the higher price given the current performance, but it looks like they're phasing out the "base" speakers in order to grab another $30 per unit. From what I've heard, the JBL speakers are, in fact, somewhat better than the originals.
Gripes...
  • Price: $500 for two communicators seems like a lot for a fancy walkie talkie. Of course, I seem to justify spending $900 for an iPhone...so...
  • Buttons are a little difficult to use with heavy gloves, but I find myself using voice commands anyway.
  • Connecting the micro-USB charge cord is finicky and needs to be done with care. I actually had one of the units stop charging because the micro USB connector in the unit broke after 1 1/2 years. To their credit, Cardo replaced it without question and sent me a new unit before I even packed up the old one to send back.
  • The FM radio receiver is pretty weak, but the music played from a phone is solid.
  • Sharing music (FM or streamed) can only be shared between you and your passenger if you're connected through bluetooth, not DMC (weird).
 
My wife and I have had Sena SMH10 for about 8 years (I think). I did have to replace the battery on mine, but even with soldering the connector to the new battery, not too difficult.
They do all the things you need, with a range of ~1/2 mile in open country. Assuming Sena has continued making progress, you can't go wrong with them, but I've heard from friends good things about Cardo, so either will serve you well. I don't play music very often, but I have. It also connects to my phone and my Zumo GPS. Priority seems to be (from memory) Zumo, intercom, phone. The newer models may allow you to select the order of priority.
If you can avoid it, don't go cheap. We did and regretted it with our first set which was a Midland brand. I was actually glad when mine flew off on the road at 70 MPH and was lost! justified us getting the Sena set.
They really make trips much shorter. You'll be ridign together rather than just at the same time and place :)
 
Sena and Cardo are pretty well even on features. The bigger difference between the 2 is water resistance. The Cardo is better than the Sena in that respect. I like the made for Neotech model of the Sena. Need earbuds for the wife who has a 1/2 helmet. I hit a good bit of rain while using my old Sena and it worked fine so unless you're riding a submarine either one would be a good choice. lol
 
The SRL is a Sena model specific for the Neotec or GT Air.

We had the Sena 20s but have upgraded to the 30K. We ride two up and each listen to our own music. We don't have an open mic to each other, rather we will click the BT button to talk to each other. I connect my unit to my phone, GPS and SM10 (which connects my GoldWing infotainment and Radar detector), so 3 channels, plus you can BT to others. The Sena 30 & 50 have the mesh connectivity as well. The Sena 20, 30 & 50 have a phone app that helps you configure the unit rather then using the jog dial to do it.

Past units (SMH10 & 20S) battery charge would degrade over time but we could charge them while using them, I have a small battery pack I use. The above referenced SRL did not have the capability to use and charge which was a deal breaker for me. As far as rain and the Sena, I have ridden in monsoons and never had an issue.

I would say that either the Cardo or Sena would serve you well.
 
BruceR. said:
Sena and Cardo are pretty well even on features. The bigger difference between the 2 is water resistance. The Cardo is better than the Sena in that respect. I like the made for Neotech model of the Sena. Need earbuds for the wife who has a 1/2 helmet. I hit a good bit of rain while using my old Sena and it worked fine so unless you're riding a submarine either one would be a good choice. lol
Click to expand...

I have had a Sena SMH10 for over nine years. It is always on my helmet, and so much of that has been touring in bad weather. It has never failed in heavy rain, never. I seriously believe the water issues came with later models. My wife has the same unit, and has had it since 2013. Her also has never failed due to rain. I have ridden many 700+ mile days, all in rain, with no issues.

The only issue we currently have with the Sena, is wind noise from her mic, which can be corrected with a shield on the back of the mic, but I haven't ordered it yet. Even with a full face helmet, she gets much more wind on the back of the Concours, and even more on the Ural in the sidecar, since she doesn't have a windscreen on the hack. The Cardo seems to do better with wind noise reduction according to reviews. I think the SMH10 is easier to use, since the huge jog wheel is easy to manipulate with gloves.

For phone calls, years ago when I would call my dad, he always complained about the sound quality of my bluetooth headsets, I only found a couple that worked well enough to use when calling him. The SMH10 was one he never complained about, in fact, he said it sounded great, even when I was going 70mph on the Concours.

We have been considering buying a Cardo system, to see how it works with our application, but I do not think you can go wrong with the SMH10, it is inexpensive, has great battery life, and isn't affected by the rain. As for the other offerings from Sena, I cannot say, but I do know many of their newer models do not have the same battery life the SMH10 does, which is one reason I never "upgraded."

As for the battery degrading over time, all batteries do. Hers is still going strong since 2013, mine began to die sooner a couple of years ago, so I replaced the battery. It is an easy job, and the battery is available on Amazon.
 
Rushfan Greg said:
Never mind about the Cardo request. They're a bit pricey!! I mean, DAYUM!! 🙃
Click to expand...

Don't forget if you're an AMA member you can get a 20% discount from Cardo directly, or 10% at an authorized dealer if you show your card.

As a Sena 20S and now 50S user, honestly you can't go wrong with either Sena or Cardo. I have it working with my iPhone and Garmin Zumo and works great with all the scenarios you've described.
 
Rushfan Greg,

We have used the Motochello for our past 80,000 miles (commuting, touring, dual sport, super sport, single, and with a pillion). This has been in the environment of commuting in the rain, long distance tours across multiple states, from rider to rider. This is from a rider that loggs 20k per year commuting and for pleasure. We have tried wireless possibilities and found them underwhelming for our purposes. Look at the Motochello and other wired units and understand that moto comms are a unicorn in that everyone has a best product and experience.

There are many adequate solutions out there, however if you are looking for perfect and with a rider (pillion) you should look at and contact the vendor for Motochelllo, Starcom (older), and Motocom (also older).
 
Thank you to all for all of your advise. I think I have made a choice. The SENA 10 seems to be simplest, good functions and for me, the best choice. Although I'm still researching others, too.

Thank you all again,
Rf G out.
 
It's not that important so you can calm down. Bluetooth is short range stuff. Not very high quality. When it came onto market I thought it's end like AOL. But the public thinks this poor quality short range thing is good. FM transmission would have been good. If my SO hadn't gotten it for me I'd still be using earbuds w a cord.

Bluetooth: overpriced gadgetry to fiddle with til annoyed....
 
Douglasjre said:
It's not that important so you can calm down. Bluetooth is short range stuff. Not very high quality. When it came onto market I thought it's end like AOL. But the public thinks this poor quality short range thing is good. FM transmission would have been good. If my SO hadn't gotten it for me I'd still be using earbuds w a cord.

Bluetooth: overpriced gadgetry to fiddle with til annoyed....
Click to expand...


I agree, for the most part. But...Cords are annoying and can get in the way. Been there, hated that.
 
Ha Ha.... apparently all this talk of helmet headsets has piqued the interest of the FB algorithm. I got a 12% off coupon for Cardo just show up in my news feed:

use coupon code "12OFF" at the checkout

Where would I be in life if FB/Amazon/Google didn't tell me what I needed? ;):D
 
Douglasjre said:
It's not that important so you can calm down. Bluetooth is short range stuff. Not very high quality. When it came onto market I thought it's end like AOL. But the public thinks this poor quality short range thing is good. FM transmission would have been good. If my SO hadn't gotten it for me I'd still be using earbuds w a cord.

Bluetooth: overpriced gadgetry to fiddle with til annoyed....
Click to expand...

How long of range do you need? My wife is sitting right behind me, or next to me if we are in the Ural. We have no issues with range. We also have had no issues with range when walking around with our headsets on. I got off the bike to do photography the other day, she remained in the sidecar. I walked all over and never lost range, nor did we get any static. As for fiddly, never had an issue. It pays to ready the manual.

Bluetooth intercom also is more frugal on battery than mesh.

We may get a Cardo Bold at some point, but we have been very happy with the SMH10 units, still are. If we have to replace them we may try the Cardo, but there is nothing wrong with the SMH10. It is probably the best value out there in headset intercoms.
 
mspickelmier said:
Ha Ha.... apparently all this talk of helmet headsets has piqued the interest of the FB algorithm. I got a 12% off coupon for Cardo just show up in my news feed:

use coupon code "12OFF" at the checkout

Where would I be in life if FB/Amazon/Google didn't tell me what I needed? ;):D
Click to expand...

Remember if you are an AMA member you get 20 percent off at Cardo. I looked the other night and the deal was good enough I almost bought some.
 
I've got the Sena SMH10B. It has been reliable, but not 'ideal'.

If you ride with ear plugs in, the volume is barely enough to hear at highway speed.
It pairs well with the phone, and it pairs well with the Rider 400, but it does not pair
well to both, which it should. Directions will break in to music being played, and never
go back to music. Pairing isn't always a 1st time success either.

Bottom line is I only use it when riding with others that have Comms, otherwise I put
in noise cancelling ear buds plugged into my iPhone. The phone pairs to my GPS,
and the Tomtom App takes care of switching to music and back.

Others that I know that use comms more often are using Cardo systems, and use an
amp to make things loud enough to hear over wind noise.

Most of what you're looking for is found on full featured units from Cardo/Sena.
Not cheap, but it's out there.
 
I have a UClear Motion Infinity that we are never going to use...it is a dual set...we have been perfectly happy with our UClear Boomless Amp Go setup...use it mainly for intercom...just turn it on in the morning and let it go until nightfall...
 
I was just about to pull the trigger on this unit, but for some reason, it sounded too good to be true. I just had doubts...

But, in the long run, I have decided to go with this one. After all of the above advice and research otherwise, it seems to be the best choice for my needs.

My wife and I have a trip coming up in two weeks and I think we're ready. Phone holder bought. Bluetooth bought. Helmet locks bought. Ready for our first real travel. Even though it's only a 3 hour tour, we're ready.

Thank you all for your inputs and advice.

Rf G out.
 
I have Sena smh10 units. These are 6 or 7 years old. We still get all day of intercom usage. Be aware that you can't listen to music and talk at the same time. You have to push the center jog button to activate the intercom. 1 to 2 second delay. If it is linked to your GPS for turn by turn and are listening to music or have the pax intercom operating the GPS will take over and gives you directions.
As c10 stated I get some wind noise from my wife. She is wearing a 3/4 helmet with a face shield and has to position the mic higher by her cheek to help some. I turn down the volume so she has to talk louder. Our son has one also and we can 3 way talk to him at up to 1/4 mile range.

Newer units may be able to talk and listen to music at the same time but that isn't a requirement for me so I haven't replaced our intercoms yet.
 
Jpd11958 said:
I have Sena smh10 units. These are 6 or 7 years old. We still get all day of intercom usage. Be aware that you can't listen to music and talk at the same time. You have to push the center jog button to activate the intercom. 1 to 2 second delay. If it is linked to your GPS for turn by turn and are listening to music or have the pax intercom operating the GPS will take over and gives you directions.
As c10 stated I get some wind noise from my wife. She is wearing a 3/4 helmet with a face shield and has to position the mic higher by her cheek to help some. I turn down the volume so she has to talk louder. Our son has one also and we can 3 way talk to him at up to 1/4 mile range.

Newer units may be able to talk and listen to music at the same time but that isn't a requirement for me so I haven't replaced our intercoms yet.
Click to expand...

You can also set the intercom to activate via VOX. We never used that much in the past, but have lately. You have to set each headset for VOX.
 
C 14 said:
You can also set the intercom to activate via VOX. We never used that much in the past, but have lately. You have to set each headset for VOX.
Click to expand...
Yes you can. We have tried that but didn't care for the way it worked. The first word not heard, used to activate intercom. You can also set side tone so you hear what you are saying in your headset. Read the manual and it will tell you the priority of the headset outputs. Phone , nav, intercom, ect.
 
Short range compared to walkie talkies, but more than enough for riding with friends.
Friend and I did a test and line-of-sight for the Sena SMH10 was a full 1/2 mile. We were slabbing to th eSpider Ride and kept getting further apart (OK.. we're both engineers and we HAD to know!). Started breaking up when we were exactly 1/2 mile apart.
I believe newer models have longer range.
 
I've got a SENA SMH-10 that I've been running with for about 5 years now. It has been great, though the battery has started to hold less charge. I find it just adequate at highway speeds to listen to music with earplugs in volume wise. I find I cannot hear the nuances of say an audio book properly.

I was surprised to hear that both Revzilla and FortNine have tossed Sena off the list of Best Bluetooth devices for 2020. For myself, I'm eyeing the Cardo PackTalk or the slim for my next unit, specifically for the JBL speakers. I ride typically with one other person, and his Sena SMH-10 is slowly having its' battery life die also, so we would just buy a 2 pack and split the cost.
 
Jpd11958 said:
Yes you can. We have tried that but didn't care for the way it worked. The first word not heard, used to activate intercom. You can also set side tone so you hear what you are saying in your headset. Read the manual and it will tell you the priority of the headset outputs. Phone , nav, intercom, ect.
Click to expand...

VOX basically always works that way. With these, we simply make a noise, or blow into the mic before speaking, you then hear the beep telling you it is connected, then speak.
 
jones0695835 said:
I've got a SENA SMH-10 that I've been running with for about 5 years now. It has been great, though the battery has started to hold less charge. I find it just adequate at highway speeds to listen to music with earplugs in volume wise. I find I cannot hear the nuances of say an audio book properly.

I was surprised to hear that both Revzilla and FortNine have tossed Sena off the list of Best Bluetooth devices for 2020. For myself, I'm eyeing the Cardo PackTalk or the slim for my next unit, specifically for the JBL speakers. I ride typically with one other person, and his Sena SMH-10 is slowly having its' battery life die also, so we would just buy a 2 pack and split the cost.
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised, I like the original SMH10, but with subsequent models, I wasn't impressed with their battery life by comparison, and there are many complaints about water ingress causing issues with newer models, something I never encountered with the SMH10.

The battery can be easily replaced. I too have considered the Cardo for a replacement when I need it. So far ours are working well. The JBL speakers are a nice feature on the Cardo.
 
Questions for those with Cardo Pack Talk Bold or Cardo Pack Talk Black direct experience:

1) is there a separate standard (3.5mm) ear phone jack for using wired ear buds? ...or... does one have to unplug the helmet speakers
and use the same jack for the headphones that the helmet speakers were using?

2) is there an external microphone that can be turned on so you can communicate with the outside world (like with a clerk inside a gas station) while you still have your helmet and earbuds on?

I have searched for these answers in the Cardo installation sheet, and the Cardo user manual but I can't find them (so far). I think the answer to my first question is yes but I'm only going 50% probability on that, and I think the answer to the second question is no and I'm going with 99% probability on that.

My Sena 20S which has worked quite a while for me has lately started randomly shutting off without warning during cold weather and it is now starting to do it at higher temps. I put in a larger battery hoping that would solve the problem but no. The unit will turn right back on again but then it could shut down 30 secs to 60 minutes later for no reason that I can discern, no warning just a click sound. I haven't been able to update my firmware in two years and I've tried 4 different computers 6 different USB cords, none recognize my Sena as being attached.

Anyway, it seems many have gone from Sena to Cardo and not looked back, but the two features I've asked about would be missed by me as my Sena 20S has them both.
 
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Ive had my Cardo system for 12+ years, ridden in 8 countries and plenty of rain, and no issues.
I agree that the button a little small but I really only used them to scroll through linked devices. The bluetooth is flawless and connects all devices within a few seconds of powering up.
The radio function is dumb and takes some fussing to get a decent station — it goes first to the strongest signal, which is never something I’m personally interested in hearing.
 
fartymarty said:
Questions for those with Cardo Pack Talk Bold or Cardo Pack Talk Black direct experience:

1) is there a separate standard (3.5mm) ear phone jack for using wired ear buds? ...or... does one have to unplug the helmet speakers
and use the same jack for the headphones that the helmet speakers were using?

2) is there an external microphone that can be turned on so you can communicate with the outside world (like with a clerk inside a gas station) while you still have your helmet and earbuds on?

I have searched for these answers in the Cardo installation sheet, and the Cardo user manual but I can't find them (so far). I think the answer to my first question is yes but I'm only going 50% probability on that, and I think the answer to the second question is no and I'm going with 99% probability on that.

My Sena 20S which has worked quite a while for me has lately started randomly shutting off without warning during cold weather and it is now starting to do it at higher temps. I put in a larger battery hoping that would solve the problem but no. The unit will turn right back on again but then it could shut down 30 secs to 60 minutes later for no reason that I can discern, no warning just a click sound. I haven't been able to update my firmware in two years and I've tried 4 different computers 6 different USB cords, none recognize my Sena as being attached.

Anyway, it seems many have gone from Sena to Cardo and not looked back, but the two features I've asked about would be missed by me as my Sena 20S has them both.
Click to expand...

I have the PTB. There is not a seperate jack on thos one. My previous Cardo unit had a built in the mount jack but this one is a bit different.

This is the 3rd set of Cardos. I started with a Cardo over the ear phone unit to replace my Plantronics in the early Bluetooth days When Cardo came out with Motorcycle units I wanted one. Started with the G9 and then went to the G9x when those came out. When my G9X bit the dust in an accident I needed a new set as my wife will NOT leave the driveway without communications bike to bike.

The units fit on the 1100 and the newer RF SR

G9x.jpgPTBhelmet.jpg

Ended up using in ear monitors after my hearing started the incessant ringing in 2011 with the helmet speakers and wind. Went to the MEE Monitors and triple flange ear pieces and found the in helmet world to be very enjoyable as the roar stopped and the music and phone/GPS was heard VERY clearly now. The plug that was on the back of the G9s is now a dongliy little thing that I plug in and wrap around the unit to take up the excess and keep pressure off it (hoping it won't get jerked around )

G9xback.jpg20220123_183619.jpgMEE2.jpg

THere is no external mic but I think the method I use at the bank window or gas station is to pause whatever I am listening to and I can get much of what is being said ....there are times I still point to the helmet and say " I can't really hear too well." and they will oblige or if I need to I will take the helmet off. I always think it would be simple to function like my shooting protection does and amplify sounds and conversation while blocking sound when needed. but that is wishing for active nose cancellation

Not sure if that answers all those questions but in closing.....I will say that my Cardos have been wonderful. You can see I have worn the tops of the buttons off of then G9s but I think that is a function of my Motoport gloves. I have looked into SENA several times as some of my buds have SENA units but the lack of being waterproof is a deal breaker as I frequently ride in downpours. The cost of the Cardos are worth it as they have been rock solid and easy to use for me .....and more importantly... the wife. Podcasts, music, GPS and phone while I mow down miles is essential in my world.....whether it is my son calling on Signal from Bangkok or a podcast or a call from Mom.....I like having everything there with the GPS in her British Voice telling me to turn in 300 feet.
 
freebird6 said:
I have the PTBold. There is not a separate jack on this one. The plug that was on the back of the G9s is now a dongle little thing that I plug in and wrap around the unit to take up the excess and keep pressure off it (hoping it won't get jerked around )...

There is no external mic...

Not sure if that answers all those 2 questions....
Click to expand...
I think that does answer my questions quite well. Unfortunately I'm not that happy with either of the answers. I guess I'll save some money, and keep nursing my Sena along 'til it just won't go anymore, then I will have a decision to make. Except for the cold related shutoff problem it works for me as I don't need to talk to a whole pack of riders. It does have an external mic and a separate earbud jack. Sometimes for just a short ride from the hotel to a restaurant I don't use the earbuds and the helmet speakers are ready to go without any re-plugging.
freebird6 said:
....with the GPS in her British Voice telling me to turn in 300 feet.
Click to expand...
That's funny, I went with the Aussie girl....now what is her name? :unsure:(rhetorical)
Thanks freebird6! (y):giggle:
 
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