Brake adaptors for 4 and 6 piston calipers

[zrxmopar]

I am making adaptors to mount 4 or 6 piston calipers to the 94' and later c-10. 70.00 shipped with all the hardware included.(you supply the calipers) you can contact me at zrxmopar@comcast.net

 

[zrxmopar]

I will post some pics soon ZRXOA #3299 2000 ZRX 1100 Black (D.O.A.) 7/30/2006 2000 Connie Red R.I.P Shannon Bitzer a.k.a. YTRAP Brake caliper bracket guy Kennesaw,GA

 

[oldsawfiler]

My son has a set on his 86. He rode my 90 yesterday and the first thing he said when he got off was "You have got to get a set of those brake brackets for this thing even if we don't have 4 pot calipers yet." So, mopar, are there going to be calipers for the early bikes again? If not, anybody have a set that hey are willing to part with? ROMA or Scarlet harlot acording to my wife Why is it that for evey 1 "making Bacon" there are 20 people eating the fat?

 

[zrxmopar]

yes I am making the pre 94' brackets as well.

 

[slybonesjesse]

My son has a set on his 86. He rode my 90 yesterday and the first thing he said when he got off was "You have got to get a set of those brake brackets for this thing even if we don't have 4 pot calipers yet."

I have to admit this is one of my fav mods. 2003 Concours, 49K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://mysite.verizon.net/slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[turbojoe78]

Are the 4 or 6 pot calipers that you would use specific to any particular bike, or a specific brand of caliper? I'm thinking of someday going to s/s lines and dot 5 fluid and wondered what kind of calipers I would need to look for. Thanks Joe C 1968 Honda 160 Scrambler, Sold 1979 Kawasaki SR 650, Traded in 1978 Kawasaki KZ 1000 Z1R Turbo 1986 Kawasaki ZX 1000R Ninja 1999 Kawasaki Concours COG memb# 8645

 

[2linby]

I have to tell you that the four pot Tokico brakes are the BOMB!!! This has to be one of the best mod's you can get for your pre 2009 Connie. Oh and I have not been compensated for this endorsement. AKA "2linby" That's 2-lin-by folks! Northwest Area Director COG #5539 AMA #927779 IBA #15034 TEAM OREGON MC Instructor http://community.webshots.com/user/2linby http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BunBurner Gold Trip) http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip)

 

[zrxmopar]

dot 5 is a waste for a street vehical. dot 4 is best. dot 5 is silicone based and creates problems with moisture in a street driven vehical. It is really for race applications only.

 

[turbojoe78]

Zrxmopar, thanks for the heads up on the dot 5. I guess if I just change out the dot 4 on a regular basis that will work just fine. I got my bike last September, it's a 99 and just finished changing all the brake fluids last night, looked like it was the first time it had ever been done. Anyone got any thoughts on how often brake fluid should be changed? 1968 Honda 160 Scrambler, Sold 1979 Kawasaki SR 650, Traded in 1978 Kawasaki KZ 1000 Z1R Turbo 1986 Kawasaki ZX 1000R Ninja 1999 Kawasaki Concours COG memb# 8645

 

[ghabel]

Joe, I change my brake fluid every 2 years or when it starts to turn amber. Don't forget the clutch line - it tends to go quicker. Greg H from Mass, Connie Droppers Anonymous Awards Dude COG# 7010,a Tracey CDA 120 (2.0) 99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle", 05 Ninja 250

 

[turbojoe78]

2 years sounds good to me. I added speed bleeders to the brakes so it's real easy now, and since you mentioned it my clutch did look a whole lot worse than my brakes did so I'll keep a closer eye on that. Thanks for the input Joe C 1968 Honda 160 Scrambler, Sold 1979 Kawasaki SR 650, Traded in 1978 Kawasaki KZ 1000 Z1R Turbo 1986 Kawasaki ZX 1000R Ninja 1999 Kawasaki Concours COG memb# 8645

 

[turbojoe78]

Someone in another thread mentioned 320mm (I think) rotors with the gsxr calipers. Can you use the stock rotors with the gsrx calipers and adapters? 1968 Honda 160 Scrambler, Sold 1979 Kawasaki SR 650, Traded in 1978 Kawasaki KZ 1000 Z1R Turbo 1986 Kawasaki ZX 1000R Ninja 1999 Kawasaki Concours COG memb# 8645

 

[zrxmopar]

yes you can

 

[railroad]

I'm about to rebuild the front brakes on my 98 C10. I've been reading about the 4 and 6 pot mods. Which is better where do you get them. I wish someone would come up with a abs farkle as I've gone down 2 times in my career from locking up the front break and yes I practice hard breaking all the time, practice and a emergency stop are two way different things.

 

[norm9688]

I got a set of 4 piston Nissin calipers off a CBR 600 F4 for $52.00 shipped on Ebay. The only negative I've heard about the 6 piston units are the cost of the pads. CT AAD COG #7011-A 2003 Concours-Mary Ann 1995 Honda Nighthawk 750 wifes

 

[slybonesjesse]

The 4 pistons are better if you can find them, versus the 6 pots. Both work great. With the 6 pots you will need longer brake lines. With the 4 pots you dont. 2003 Concours, 49K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://mysite.verizon.net/slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[railroad]

Slybones, OK, four pots it is. Now which kind nisson, tokico, something else?? Where do you get them?? What bikes do they come on. Thanks, Seth

 

[norm9688]

Now which kind nisson, tokico, something else?? Where do you get them?? What bikes do they come on.

Ebay !! http://tinyurl.com/qrgr8x http://tinyurl.com/qrg8ed The one's I got were Nissin, they fit a 1999-2006 CBR 600 F4, I think the GSXR 750 from 2001-2003 will also fit. There does not seem to be much difference between the Nissin and Tokico calipers. I emailed Shaun and let him look at the calipers on Ebay to be sure they would be ok. I got the brackets today,,they look SWEET !! I'll post some pics when they are installed. Check with Murph also, I know he had some left a while back but was running low, he sells the whole package I think, calipers,new pads and lines. Because of low farcle funds I'll put the braided lines on later http://www.murphskits.com/catalog/ I think you need to email Murph about the calipers. CT AAD COG #7011-A 2003 Concours-Mary Ann 1995 Honda Nighthawk 750 wifes

 

[zrxmopar]

The gsxr 600 750 YEAR RANGE IS 2001 THRU 2003. before 2001 the calipers are different and after 03 they are radial.

 

[HawkeyePierce]

FYI--2 year old cars typically have 2% moisture in their brake systems. For DOT 3 fluid, 2% moisture relates to about a 100'f drop in boiling point for the brake fluid. I don

 

[tom_epp_NC]

hey guys, i need to know if this mod will help with low speed front wheel lock up and front end wash out. i've had two instances with this both times i went down. the first was on some gravel i didn't see, i guess i was still dragging the front brake a little and before i knew what was happening i was sliding on the ground. the most recent was kind of a panic stop, i was already braking and when i saw the bike in front of me stop short and hit his girlfriend when i saw his rear tire about three feet in the air i grabbed some more brake, front end washed out and i was on the ground before i knew what happened. both of these instances happened at low speeds, under 20mph. now i've been riding for about 25 years and never went down. the first one in the gravel i considered to be my fault for not seeing the gravel but this last one i don't think i was doing more than 10mph and never expected it to dump me like that. i love this bike, it has been my dream bike since i saw my first one about twelve years ago but this is getting expensive. i've come to the conclusion that stoppies on a concours is impossible, not that i want to do any, i'm just sayin. i've had several thoughts of selling her but i really don't want to. i need to do something to make this bike safer to ride. PLEASE HELP!!!!!! thanks, tom.

 

[zorlac]

Tom, The new calipers just make for firmer brakes up front, all the rotational control of the front wheel during braking is still up to you.

 

[ghabel]

I don't have a technology solution but I would like to recommend practicing emergency stops. Find a parking lot without any cars and practice till you are perfect. Without regular practice we all get rusty. Make that part of a monthly routine and you will be better prepared. Good luck. Greg H from Mass, Connie Droppers Anonymous Awards Dude COG# 7010,a Tracey CDA 120 (2.0) 99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle", 05 Ninja 250

 

[oldsawfiler]

What tire do you have on the front? Sounds like its a little "slick" like maybe a Met 880. COG # 8062 AMA # 1084053 ROMA or Scarlet harlot acording to my wife

 

[tom_epp_NC]

thanks greg, i do try to practice hard braking regularly but i don't practice emergency stops. to be perfectly honest i'm a little scared of practicing emergency stops after being dumped twice. it hurts enough when you tear your bike up because of a mistake let alone trying to prepare yourself for that emergency situation and tearing it up in a parking lot. any tips would be greatly appreciated. sawfiler, i'm running the d 205 front and rear. i have an 04 model, when i got it it had a 110/80 it now has the 120/70. tires are new, had about 1k on them when this happened. i had been carving turns at a pretty good pace for a few days before so they definitely had a good scrub on them. can you guys tell me if the crash bars provide any protection to the upper fairing? you know that skinny area by the signals that's prone to breaking. it seems like they don't stick out far enough to protect that area. thanks, tom.

 

[zorlac]

They aren't "crash" bars per se, but in a zero to no speed tip, with both front & rear bars, the fairing & bags will be untouched. DAMHIK

 

[whdunn4]

Is anyone still making the brake caliper adapters?

 

[smithr]

Wes I think I just answered on the listserv but this link is the first one to come up if you type caliper into the search area here
http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?topic=17890.15

 

[slybonesjesse]

I need to lay off the martini's at lunch. That link takes me to this same thread.  For those who dont use the listserv what is the answer ( what is the listserv anyways ).

 

[rev ryder]

I need to lay off the martini's at lunch. That link takes me to this same thread.  For those who dont use the listserv what is the answer ( what is the listserv anyways ).

While I cannot answer your question about the caliper adapters, I maybe can offer a little insight to your parenthetical question...
The listserve is ANOTHER form of forum via email that is hosted at MicahPeak (sp?) which ALSO operates under the heading "Concours Owners Group."  It dates back to a time when TRS-80s roamed the earth and club organization was minimal and it has been kept "in business" lo these many years by donations from within the group of folks who use it.  It is populated by a few COG members and a number of former COG members.  Some of these members refuse to come out of the cave to utilize the resources available to them on the rest of the WWW (like here).  Within the group there are sub-groups (cliques) such as "Faithful COGgers," a few "Chatty Morons" ( http://www.chattymorons.org/ ) and the COG bashing ToS or "Table of Shame"-ers.  It's just ONE more venue where Concours riders and former Concours riders can come together to talk about oil, tires, and OTP.  In fact, IIRC, the listserve was pretty much the birthplace and strongest supporter of OtP.  And it was in that venue that I was introduced to and began to support OtP.  There are a few familiar persons from the internet forums, a number of other nice folks you'll never meet here, and then there are others who are less than nice.  I reckon it's kinda like any other place you put a buncha folks together... a mixed bag.

The list may go days without a post or it may have a hundred in a day.  When it has a lot, then there are folks lining up to unsubscribe.  I mean why would I sign up for an email list that might send me... GULP... email? LOL

It is NOT COG sanctioned, endorsed, operated, funded, or backed in any way though it carries the same name and is directly related to and even predates the ZG/GTR Fanatics forum and Concours.org site.
All of that said.  http://micapeak.com/mailman/listinfo/cog
Despite any claims to COG affiliation, there is none except that the aforementioned contingent of COG members still subscribe, not wanting to lose touch with those who cannot come play here for reasons real or imagined.

EDIT TO ADD:
Dear Moderators, if this is too harsh, not accurate, or otherwise improper, please feel free to tidy it up, correct it, or eradicate it as you see fit. I realize the TRS-80 comment may be over the top. Thanks.

 

[smithr]

My impression after reading Rick Halls article linked to under the About COG, Online Evolution is that the Listserv was started by a COG member to aid in COG communications before any forums started. 

BTW I still have not found anyplace to get the adapters.

 

[slybonesjesse]

Back to the brake adapters..

I recall COG member zrxmopar was making them off and on, and last I remember was off due to moving, etc. Not sure if he ever got back on again.

Back a while ago I recall reading on the Fanatics Forum that there was a guy in Australia making them. He was/is a GTR owner down under. I have no idea how they compared to zrxmopar or what calipers they supported. A place to start would be to search around in the forum and see if we can find the guy.

 

[smithr]

I think the problem is zrxmopar is not replying to emails.

 

[slybonesjesse]

Thats ok. My point was to chase down the AUS guy. Found this link in the Sell,Swap,Trade section of the GTR/AUS forum. Even seems to have some recent discussion.  Here is the place to start. If zrxmopar ever starts making the again I would be happy to push his product. The 6-pots on my Connie are my absolute favorite mod. there are other great mods, I enjoy sending SISF money every once in a while. But the brakes are the Fav.

Anyways, this is the place to start.
http://gtr1000.yuku.com/topic/3638/4-piston-brake-calipers

 

[Victor Salisbury]

IIRC the Australia version adapters are only for the '93 and earlier, fine for those of that vintage.

I'm keeping an ear here, because I sure would like to get some for the '94 and up 

 

[slybonesjesse]

Well thats a bummer for the '94 up crowd.

 

[Victor Salisbury]

Yeah, I asked him about them about 6 months ago and he stated he only had them for the pre 94's.
I'm a hoping someone can come out with the 94's and up............

 

[gfinca]

There's a guy who makes some nice caliper adapters for the V-Strom.  Here's his website:

http://www.svracingparts.com/

The only reason I bring this up is that the calipers and mounting between the V-Strom and C10 look very similar.  If it hasn't already been done, it might be worth the effort for someone who has both the Strom and C10 to check the fit between the two (and, of course, report back the findings  ;D)

 

[Victor Salisbury]

Hmmm, Rich Desmond, Sonic Springs fame used to compete SV's for quite a while. I'll have to see if he knows these guys, might be able to get some intel.  I'm out to Bikeweek, I'll ping him but may not hear anything until I get back.

 

[gfinca]

I did some digging, and found out that the SV/ V-strom calipers have the same bolt spacing as the C10 calipers.  This means that the V-strom calipers will bolt on to the C10.  I don't know whether they will line up with the rotors properly or not, but it would not surprise me if they did.  If they do line up properly, then there is a good that the Strom adapters will work.  The only issue would be that the Strom has a 310 mm rotor, and the C10 has a 300 mm rotor, though this difference should be accounted for in the fork mounting tabs.  I no longer have the stock front end on my bike, and I sold the original forks, so I can't readily do any comparisons, otherwise I would buy a cheap used V-strom caliper and try it out myself.  Again, it seems like it would be worth the effort for someone with access to both bikes to do a quick check to see if the calipers line up properly.  If that's successful then... 

 

[Victor Salisbury]

Cool, I just got back from the trailer week festivities. I'll be doing some digging myself this week.....

 

[gfinca]

Vic,

I found another company selling adapters on eBay for the SV/ V-strom.  Their adapters are for Brembo calipers, but their ad states that they will fit a ZR7, as well as the V-strom and SV650.  The ZR7 uses the same calipers as the V-strom and has 300 mm rotors, like the C10, so that is another piece in the puzzle to indicate that if the V-strom caliper fits the C10, then the adapters will likely work on the C10, too.  Hopefully, that's the case. 

 

[gfinca]

I had an email exchange with the guy who makes the V-strom adapters.  The upshot is that he seemed interested in developing something for the Concours, but the project wouldn't happen till fall at the earliest.  His company is busy with other projects right now, plus it is no doubt a small operation, plus they aren't very familiar with the Concours, plus there are always other priorities that pop up in a small business, so we'll have to see if that really happens.  Based on our exchange, the only way right now to find out if the adapters fit is to buy them.  The adapters are sold for the particular bikes they've designed them for, so fitment issues are on the buyer for anything else they might be used for, which is reasonable.

In other news, I've contacted a COG member who has a bike with the same calipers as the V-strom, in addition to a C10, and he is going to swap a caliper to see if it lines up correctly on the C10.  He is very busy right now, but hopes to be able to do that in late April/ early May.  If it fits, it would be another step toward knowing whether the V-strom adapters work. 

Stay tuned.

 

[gfinca]

It turns out that the V-strom calipers are a direct fit to the later C10.  This means the V-strom caliper adapters will most likely work with the C10, but it will take someone trying them to be sure.  I no longer have the stock C10 front end otherwise I would try them myself.  Here's the link again,

http://www.svracingparts.com/products/#ecwid:category=465963&mode=product&product=1632834

You can use your choice of Nissin or Tokico calipers, the choice is made when you place the item in the cart.  The correct 4 piston calipers are listed on the product page.  So is anyone willing to give them a try?

 

[Daytona_Mike]

Just to be clear, these are not an upgrade to a larger rotor like a 320mm.
This is to simply adapt a 4 pot  caliper.

 

[gfinca]

The short answer is you are correct, they would not allow larger rotors.  They would only work with the stock rotors. 

Here is some more info I have.  The adapters in question were designed for the DL and SV.  The DL uses 310 mm rotors, and the SV650 uses 290 mm rotors.  Both use the same basic caliper that is a bolt-on to the C10, which uses a 300 mm rotor.  To allow the same caliper to be used on three different size rotors, the caliper mounting lugs on the fork are in different locations relative to the axes of the fork and axle.  This is why I'm confident the adapters for the DL/ SV will allow the 4 pots to be mounted to the C10 and have the caliper be located properly relative to the rim of the rotor, because regardless of the size of the rotor, the mounting lugs account for the rotor size of the given bike.  I even went so far as to make a CAD sketch to convince myself that an adapter made for any of the bikes would align properly on any of the others.

One difference between the three bikes is the thickness of the caliper mounting lugs.  This is important for this application because these caliper adapters mount to the outside of the caliper lugs in a similar manner to Shaun's adapters.  This means that unless the lugs on the SV or DL are the same thickness as the C10, spacers would be needed to align the caliper properly left-to-right.  This could be done using washers or a specially made spacer.  The spacer thickness would be the difference in lug thickness between whichever bike the adapters were designed for and the C10.  Another issue is that I've been told that the unpainted wear area on the C10's 300 mm rotors is slightly narrower than the pads on the 4 pot calipers.  This means the pads would probably wear some of the paint away from the rotor near the inner edge of the rotor wear surface, and that the first set of pads might take longer than usual to bed.  This would apply to any adapters meant to be used with the C10's rotors, including Shaun's, although some of Shaun's adapters were designed so that the pad hung out past the outside edge of the rotor slightly, presumably to account for the narrower wear area.

 

[wingboy71]

Bought the adapters from SVR page and Tokico calipers from GXR 600, well they fit but mounting lugs are thicker on Connie so I must make adapters, now I look for DL650 to measure the difference. Keep you posted when I am done.

 

[xjdaver]

Bought the adapters from SVR page and Tokico calipers from GXR 600, well they fit but mounting lugs are thicker on Connie so I must make adapters, now I look for DL650 to measure the difference. Keep you posted when I am done.

What year Connie? I'm wondering if the SVR adapters will only work on 94 and after.

 

[gfinca]

I'm wondering if the SVR adapters will only work on 94 and after.

Correct.

 

[wingboy71]

Mine is 2000, stock front end. I am just afraid if the caliper will seat right because there is difference in diameter of disk 300 to 310 from DL but with rough fitment so far neither rim of the disc nor top of the caliper are touching but it can be still uneven wear pattern on brake pads. I am going to play with washers to obtain correct alignment and than ask my friend to make spacers, I also need longer screws that those provided with kit to make up for difference in thickness of the mounting tabs. I will keep you posted
Wow one more thing you need longer brake hoses as caliper is sitting lower than stock. I got mine calipers from GXR with steel braided hoses so I will utilize them.

 

[centex]

For an easier inital check of the pad vs rotor fit, pull a pad from the GSXR caliper and hold it against the rotor with your hand - I believe you may find that the pad is wider than the braking band on the rotor no matter how you align it with your hand (I know that is the case with the pads for a GSXR 750 4-pot caliper on the standard late C10 rotor).

The larger diameter rotors have a wider braking surface to accomdate the wider pads.

 

[wingboy71]

Well I mounted and aligned the calipers using standard M8 washers and everything works fine. I just have problems with my brake hoses as caliper is sitting lower and I can't use my Galfers nor the ones that came with calipers from GXR as they are too long -2 line design so I guess I have to call Murph and ask for custom ones. I still have to rebuild calipers and put new brake pads but even now breaking seems to be more powerful. I also think I will actually replace washers with custom made spacers. Overall not cheap upgrade but worth the money.

 

[bratmanxj]

Well I mounted and aligned the calipers using standard M8 washers and everything works fine. I just have problems with my brake hoses as caliper is sitting lower and I can't use my Galfers nor the ones that came with calipers from GXR as they are too long -2 line design so I guess I have to call Murph and ask for custom ones. I still have to rebuild calipers and put new brake pads but even now breaking seems to be more powerful. I also think I will actually replace washers with custom made spacers. Overall not cheap upgrade but worth the money.

:TPIWWP:

Please...Please....Please...I've got a line on some calipers for a pretty good price and have been looking at making my own brackets...but if this is a bolt on solution with some minor shimming so be it.

 

[gfinca]

:TPIWWP:

+1 

 

[wingboy71]

Bratman, I will be tuning my brakes with those spacers and new brake hoses. When I will ask my friend to get me those spacers I can ask him to make 4 extra for you if you decide to go my way. I got adapters to Suzuki DL 650 you got link below
http://www.svracingparts.com/products/#ecwid:category=472407&mode=product&product=10245069
and got pair of barke calipers from Suzuki GSXR 600 from 2002 on ebay

 

[centex]

Wingboy - the pads for the calipers you are using (I have the same calipers and pads) sweep a path that is wider (measured radially from the edge closest to the axle out to the edge closest to the rim) than the machined braking surface on a stock 94+ Connie rotor.

In other words, the pad will either lap over the outside edge of the rotor, or ride inside the machined braking surface of the rotor, or both, depending on how far the caliper is mounted radially from the axle.  The braking material on the pad cannot fit within the width of the intended rotor braking surface, regardless of the alignment of the caliper.  :-[

With the adaptors you are using, where does the excess pad 'fall'?  Outside the rotor or inside the intended braking surface toward the center of the brake rotor, or does it overlap on both edges?

 

[wingboy71]

Centex, the "excess of the pad is outside the rotor. The adapter was designed for 310 mm rotor, Connie has 300 mm.

 

[bratmanxj]

Centex, the "excess of the pad is outside the rotor. The adapter was designed for 310 mm rotor, Connie has 300 mm.

And you can pick up a set of second hand ZX 320mm rotors on ebay for around $50 so there are simple and inexpensive solutions out there.

 

[centex]

I agree that the pads work great on 320 mm rotors.

However, I don't think the 310mm adaptors will let the caliper fit over the larger rotor.

Some folks report trimming the pad material back to fit the stock rotors using a grinder, but that was with an adaptor made for the Connie - the amount of trim required was very small (on the order of 2mm).

Devilish details.

 

[willyp]

I believe it would only be an issue if the pads were so worn that the overhanging material came together and prevented the pads from clamping the rotor. The pads would have to have half the thickness of the rotor worn off each one for that to happen. Then you could probably just drag a file across the ridge. Or just replace the pad, at that point.

 

[wingboy71]

I am pretty sure the the adapter won't work on 320 mm rotor. I have to ride and use the brakes for a while to see how much excess on pad stay but using file to remove excess seems to be a good solution.
Wish I can get somewhere 310 mm rotors that will fit Connie.

 

[centex]

WillyP, You may well be right.

We still haven't seen pics showing the amount of overlap with this particular adaptor.  Half of the diameter difference plus the excess pad width would be about 1/4 inch.  We don't know since we don't have that detail from Wingboy.  If that much, I'd start to wonder about pad/piston binding from the offset load under braking (but that's just me and I'll admit being conservative to the extreme when talking brake mods).

I just want folks to be aware that the adaptor that Wingboy is using has these alignment issues so they can make fully informed decisions about the second most critical component on their bike, before they spend their money.

 

[wingboy71]

After I put some miles I give you more details and send some pictures now it's too soon to tell anuthing and I agree with you Centex that you must know all the details before you make decision about modifying your brakes 

 

[slybonesjesse]

I believe it would only be an issue if the pads were so worn that the overhanging material came together and prevented the pads from clamping the rotor. The pads would have to have half the thickness of the rotor worn off each one for that to happen. Then you could probably just drag a file across the ridge. Or just replace the pad, at that point.

This is correct. I used to run my 6 pot calipers on the stock rotors. The extra pad area was to the outside. As Willy points out I remove my pads every do often and took the dremel to the ridge and ground it off. -- Given the rotor thickness and pad thickness you would have to be down around 25% - 30% pad wear left to get to the point  the pads prevent clamping of the rotor. I did mine once at about 40% pad wear and later at about 80% pad wear and left them until changed. I performed the pad maintenance twice.

I posted a pic of the pad wear in another thread recently.

Overall while it IS A MUST that users know this and perform pad maintenance when using aftermarket rotors on stock calipers, I would not let this stop me. Having done both 6 pots on stock rotors and 6 pots on 320mm rotors, the majority of the improvement comes from the calipers. And while using them on the 320mm is better braking and less side effects, I personally would do aftermarket calipes on stock rotors again, IN A HEARTBEAT, if thats all I could do. OR even do that first as a first step, and then later make brackets again when I could upgrade to 320mm rotors. Maybe even wait for the stock rotors to wear out first, and then upgrade when I had to do it anyway. Yes that means making 2 sets of brackets. 

Having said that, I completely agree with mentioning the fitmet issue everytime we see these threads, such that people go into this mod knowing what is required, and what the side effects are.

 

[slybonesjesse]

here is a pic of me holding the pads to the rotors, trying to show the amount of gap. You can see how much space is still available before the pads hit interfere with clamping. These are EBC HH pads for 6 pot calipers over the stock rotors at aprox 40% pad wear.

 

[slybonesjesse]

Here is how "My" pads wear down. You can see the ridge at the top. I just used a dremel and ground it down flush and reinstalled. Was performed twice over the life of the pads. If you pushed it further based on the above pic, you might only need to do this once over the life of the pads.

 

[2linby]

Fred,

Thanks for posting the pictures. With my 4 pot Tokicos the overlap is even greater and yes, I've "trimmed" the excess twice already using a bench grinder.

 

[bratmanxj]

And while using them on the 320mm is better braking and less side effects

Less - so going to the 320mm rotors does not completely alleviate the pad overhang?

 

[slybonesjesse]

yeah that side effect is gone. There could be other side effects though. Or it could a poor choice of words.

 

[gfinca]

And while using them on the 320mm is better braking and less side effects

Less - so going to the 320mm rotors does not completely alleviate the pad overhang?

The pads for any of the 4 pot Tokicos and Nissins will fit perfectly on a 320 mm rotor.  The newer 4 pot Tokicos as used on the 2000-2003 Suzukis were also used on the Kawasaki ZZR1200, which uses 320 mm rotors.  The older 4 pot Tokicos were used on ZX7's, ZX9's, and ZX11's with 320 mm rotors.  I'm not sure what Slybones meant by less side effects, but it doesn't have anything to do with how the pads fit the rotors.

 

[slybonesjesse]

Fred,

Thanks for posting the pictures. With my 4 pot Tokicos the overlap is even greater and yes, I've "trimmed" the excess twice already using a bench grinder.

Yeah I think them old 6 pots were designed around 310mm rotors.  And like GF mentions there are ones designed around the 320 and I am sure with them the over hang is pretty good.

When I went to the 320mm rotors I measured the pad surface of the stock 300mm rotors with the calipers and then placed the calipers on the 320mm rotors and took a pic. Here is the amount of additional area

 

[gfinca]

Just to be clear, the 6 pot calipers as used on the ZRX with 310 mm rotors were used on the ZX7 and ZX9 with 320 mm rotors, so they will work fine with either the 4 pots or 6 pots.  The 4 pots will work perfectly with the 310 mm rotors, as well, in fact I know that some of the people using Shaun's 4 pot adapters were able to use 310 mm rotors with his adapters to get the extra friction area needed for the pads.

 

[slybonesjesse]

I was not meaning to say that my 6 pots were designed for 310 and were not able to be used on 320. Heck, I am doing it. Just the amount of friction area of the pads / calipers was designed around 310mm rotors ( or some rotor with slightly larger surface area ). When I used them on the 300mm rotors I had a slight amount of over hang with the pads being aligned pretty well on the inside. On my 320mm rotors the pads are oriented to the outside, and I have some unused rotor friction area to the inside that is not being fully utilized.  -- So I can see these working perfectly on 310mm or 320mm rotors with no over hang or funky pad wear. Just not all of the surface area of the 320mm will be utilized.

With regard to 4 or 6 pot calipers that were designed to utilize the full surface area of a 320mm rotor, being used on a 300mm rotor, I would think the over hang would be even greater than what my pads show above. I think this is 2Linby was trying to say, and while I have not personally seen his pad wear, I can visualize it being so. Not True?

With regards to 4 pots designed to make use of the full area of 320mm rotors, you are saying they can be used on 310mm rotors and have no overhang AND be properly aligned on the inside?  IE work perfectly, no funky pad wear.

Or what? I guess I must be missing something. 

 

[centex]

Thanks, Slybones, for stepping in with your great photo documentation.

As always, pics worth thousands of words and your website is a gold mine of information for anyone undertaking C10 mods.

:beerchug:

 

[2linby]

Yes I have a very thin "crescent" undercut as a result of the pads not being in total contact with the rotors. In fact I did not realize this condition until I basically had no front brakes due to the pads actually coming together making direct contact with each other.

I am rebuilding my tokico calipers with new seals and I might powder coat the bodies but I will take a picture of what I am describing.  I have stock rotors.

 

[gfinca]

With regards to 4 pots designed to make use of the full area of 320mm rotors, you are saying they can be used on 310mm rotors and have no overhang AND be properly aligned on the inside?  IE work perfectly, no funky pad wear.

OR ????

Yes, the width of the 4 pot pads will fit within the friction area of the 310 mm rotors.  If the pad is aligned with the outer rim of the rotor, there will still be some area available to the inside, i.e. the pad does not cover the whole width of the friction area.  You can see what I mean in this posting on ADVrider discussing the installation of the SVR adapters on a Vstrom, which uses 310 mm rotors. 

http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=403739&page=3

A couple of posts down there is a picture of the rotor with the wear marks from the 4 pot pads.  Even further down there is a picture of where the pads are relative to the outer edge of the rotor, and they are inside the outer edge.

Maybe my saying they will work perfectly is confusing, I just meant that the pads will fit in the friction area of either the 310 or 320 rotors with no overhang either to the inside or outside, unlike the 4 pot pads on the stock C10 rotors. 

 

[gfinca]

Here are some photos of my brakes, which are 320 mm rotors with 4 piston calipers.  The outer corners of the pads line up with the inside corner of the bevel on the rotor, and there is a portion of the rotor wear surface that is untouched.

 

[slybonesjesse]

ok. Helps. My generic thinking was/is ( and like all things subject to change without notice ) stock rotors are 300mm rotors. There are Kawa models with 310mm and 320mm rotors. They even come with the same bolt pattern and go right onto a Connie wheel.  Each has a slightly larger surface area. At least I know for sure about the 300mm versus 320mm as I measured it and posted a pic of it. I assume 310 are in the middle.

Some how I was thinking there were 4/6 pots that were designed around the 310mm surface area and 4/6 pots designed around the 320mm surface area.

My poor little brain was thinking the smaller calipers will fit on the same size or larger rotors and work perfectly, in that there is no over hang or funky pad wear. Just simply that the smaller calipers on the larger rotors will have some unused surface area like we have been discussing. Any time the larger calipers are used on the smaller rotors, and assuming the pads are properly aligned on the inside edge of the rotor, there will be over hang. -- With the 300mm rotors they are always smaller so they will always have over hang.

So I guess where I am or got confused was thinking there were 2 size 4 pot calipers. Meaning calipers with pad surface area designed around 2 different size rotor friction areas. And these two sizes matched up to 310mm and 320mm rotor friction areas. Appears this is not the case. So my generic question is, are there different size calipers and do we know the min rotor sizes they can be used on ( assuming they can be used on larger rotors with proper brackets and some unused area ).

 

[gfinca]

The Tokico 4 pots that have a the 63 mm bolt spacing all use the same pad.  The earlier ones used on the ZX9, ZX11 and others have different size pistons and different size mounting bolts than the later GSXR/ ZZR calipers, but they are all compatible with a 310 or 320 mm rotor.  Some early GSXR's used a Tokico 4 pot with a 90 mm bolt spacing (same as the ZRX 6 pots) that had a slightly wider pad, and they had 310 mm rotors.  The Nissin calipers with the 63 mm bolt spacing use a pad with the same width as the ZX/ GSXR/ ZZR calipers.  So any of the 4 pot calipers that would typically be considered for a swap would be compatible with 310 or 320 mm rotors.

 

[2linby]

I believe it would only be an issue if the pads were so worn that the overhanging material came together and prevented the pads from clamping the rotor. The pads would have to have half the thickness of the rotor worn off each one for that to happen. Then you could probably just drag a file across the ridge. Or just replace the pad, at that point.

This is exactly what I have to do with the stock Connie rotors using Shaun's adapter plates with the four pot tokico's. And yes the pads will come together if this is not done and possibly compromise your stopping ability.

 

[2linby]

Are there any 310mm rotors that can fit the Connie?

 

[slybonesjesse]

Thanks GF, that clears up my 4 pot confusion. Out of curiosity any tidbits like that for the 6 pots to complete the picture.

 

[gfinca]

Are there any 310mm rotors that can fit the Connie?

Bob, the bikes that have 310 mm rotors with the same offset and bolt pattern as the later C10 are:

ZX 750 H1/H2 (ZX7) 89-90
ZX 9R (ZX 900 E1/E2) 00-01
ZR 1100 A1-A4 Zephyr 92-95
ZR 1100 B1 Zephyr 96
ZX 1100 C1-C4 (ZX11) Ninja 90-93
ZRX 1100/ 1200  any year

Thanks GF, that clears up my 4 pot confusion. Out of curiosity any tidbits like that for the 6 pots to complete the picture.

Only to say that the 6 pot pads are basically the same width as the 4 pot pads and that they were used on bikes with 310 and 320 mm rotors.  I know that the 6 pots came with at least two different sets of piston sizes.  Also there are two different mounting configurations, with the most common one being the type used on the ZRX and Hayabusa.  A configuration with the same 63 mm bolt spacing as the common 4 pots was used on some GSXR-1000's, so these could be used with the same adapters as the 4 pots, but they tend to be pretty rare.  Plus, the later 4 pots have more piston area than the six pots anyway, so IMO, the 4 pots are more bang for the buck and are less susceptible to the maintenance issues the 6 pots have.

 

[2linby]

Are there any 310mm rotors that can fit the Connie?

Bob, the bikes that have 310 mm rotors with the same offset and bolt pattern as the later C10 are:

ZX 750 H1/H2 (ZX7) 89-90
ZX 9R (ZX 900 E1/E2) 00-01
ZR 1100 A1-A4 Zephyr 92-95
ZR 1100 B1 Zephyr 96
ZX 1100 C1-C4 (ZX11) Ninja 90-93
ZRX 1100/ 1200  any year

AS always THANKS!!!!!! 

 

[wingboy71]

My final review of front brake modification using brake adapters from SVR designed for Suzuki DL650
As I wrote in my earlier post you need to align brake caliper in my case using M8 washers as mounting tabs on Connie are thicker as those on Suzuki. Brake pad is sitting right at the rim of the disc as you see on first picture.
The excess of the brake pad is in the front as you cane see on the next picture. It is good and bad, good as I don't have to afraid that my brake will stop working when that pads will wear down, bad as with will wear down small area about 1/8 of and in of the painted part of the disc but it shouldn't have much influence on brake performance I hope  :

Another thing what I noticed that now the caliper sits slightly at the angle as the distance at tthe tow between edge of the disc and caliper is bigger that the one the  bottom to be exact 6.5 mm at the top and 4.21 mm at the bottom. It looks that mounting are also shorter on Connie compared to Suzuki. Considering that it is impossible to bigger rotor than stock from Connie 
As far as money invested not cheap, adapters 75$, used calipers from GSXR 40$, and hardest part new steel braided brake lines from Murph as old ones were to short 105$ plus some longer bolts about 20$ from McMaster Carr, tolatling in $240 for all
Results: I am satisfied as my brakes are at least 60-70% better than stock, now I really can use just front with 2 fingers.

 

[gfinca]

Thanks for the report, wingboy.  I agree that it is better to overlap at the inside than the outside, and I suspect you won't have an issue with wearing on the painted area.  The amount you needed to space the caliper looks to be around 1/4", is that about right?  Enjoy your new brakes!

 

[slybonesjesse]

Curious about the need for longer lines. What were were old lines, about how too short were they.

 

[wingboy71]

GF actually I used 6 standard M8 washers so the spacing was about 3/8 in

Slybone
My original lines were from Galfer, they actually could fit when I did not run them trough the brake holders but they were on real stretch and touching the fender so after some time they will probably damage paint on the fender. I decided to get two lines instead of three to make my bleeding easier. Kept my original breaks and lines if I ever decide to go back which I doubt as I really like my breaks now 

 

[willyp]

Good call on replacing the lines, you would not want your brake lines to break.

 

[gfinca]

Just FYI for the pre '94 owners, there is a fellow named Russell (enim57) in Australia who has made adapters for your bike in the past and apparently is getting a production run going very soon.  There is some discussion on the other forum about it.  Go to the bottom of page 3 of the discussion:

http://www.zggtr.org/index.php?topic=679.30

No affiliation, YMMV, etc.

 

[railroad]

Wingboy, 
It looks in the photo's that you used 6 washers, is this correct? Can you have spacers made?
Thanks

 

[wingboy71]

Railroad
Sorry for long response, haven't been here for a while. I actually already replaced my washers with custom made aluminium spacers if you need any dimensions or pictures just send me PM. Thanks

 

[slybonesjesse]

Post some pics and dimensions here. At the moment for 94' up Connies doing the SVR brackets for the DL650 with 4 pot calipers, and these spacers mounted up with stock rotors is the only option available w/o fabbing it all yourself.  -- Seems there are a number of people who might be interested in how to do a bolt up kit by just having to buy calipers, brackets, spacers and longer bolts. Maybe some new pads and "bolt on" to stock rotors.

Myself having done the 6-pots and the 320mm rotors at different times ( I had brackets for both ) the calipers is where its at, IMO. While 4 pots with 320m rotors is the ideal way to go, there is nothing wrong with braking power of the 4 pots on the stock rotors. Its the better end of the package. -- HOWEVER be aware of possible pad over hang on the outside of the rotors and know that you have to perform perioidic pad maintenance.

 

[bluripper893]

Hi everyone, I recently joined after being a lurker all summer. I purchased a 2001 concours with a little over 14k on it and have been using the forum to gain knowledge about this awesome bike. I've since put on 6k miles and have done a lot of general maintenance with it and its coming up on my first valve adjustment. It's been and awesome bike so far. Anyway with introduction over this past weekend I have made a set of caliper brackets for 01-03 gsxr Tokico 4 pot calipers and 320mm rotors I fabed them by hand and am planning on blue printing them im auto cad and having my brother who is a machinist run off a few sets in a cnc mill if their is interest in brackets for those calipers and 320mm rotors. Pictures and more info to follow as I'm at work currently on my iPhone.

-Dan

 

[gfinca]

Good to hear, Dan.  Do you have any pictures of your setup?  Are they one piece?  Aluminum?  Steel?  Graphite composite?  Inquiring minds want to know 

 

[Victor Salisbury]

Dan

Interested  :great: 

 

[2fast]

On a similar note, I have some brackets being made right now for the pre 94 models, to convert to Tokico 4 pots and 320mm rotors. More soon!

Brian

 

[bluripper893]

Here are some pics of the non production prototype ones I made for mine. They are 3/16" aluminum but I am considering making them out of 3/16" steel instead because im worried about people that overtighten bolts ripping the threads out. As you can see they are a single piece no shimming required and use the stock M10x1.25 bolts for the bracket and M8x1.25 for the calipers. The only modification is you need to drill out the caliper mounting tabs because you now need the bolt to pass through and thread into the adapter instead of the caliper.

Mount without caliper.

All together

 

[Kd50]

On a similar note, I have some brackets being made right now for the pre 94 models, to convert to Tokico 4 pots and 320mm rotors. More soon!

Brian

!!INTERESTED!!

 

[2fast]

On a similar note, I have some brackets being made right now for the pre 94 models, to convert to Tokico 4 pots and 320mm rotors. More soon!

Brian

!!INTERESTED!!

Here's a teaser shot of the new and old.