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Broke motor mount bolt - what else might I find?

J

jfryhayes@aol.com

Training Wheels
Hi all. During an oil change last Friday the upper left motor mount bolt presented itself. It was protruding from the head, snapped at the base of the nut. Nut and shim are gone.
I have a bit of half inch pipe and a bolt (poor mans emergency foot peg - don't ask) rattling around in the glove box, so I'm insure how long I've ridden with the broken bolt.

Two questions;

What other areas of the motorcycle should I check for related issues?

I'm speculating that someone tightened the bolt without a torque wrench and possibly other bolts may preparing to snap also. Does it make sense to re-torque other mount bolts or is that inviting trouble?

Also, - Ok three questions-  regarding the shim. Feeler gauge measures 1.9mm between frame and head. The shim is supposed to be 1.2mm.  That's not an issue - is it?

Thanks
 
  I torque the right side bolt and then fill the left side gap with steel washers and torque the left side.
 
I did exactly what Mettler did and have not broken a bolt since. Its a pain to thread that bolt through the washers, but in the end it was worth it.
 
Mine also broke on way to church on e Sunday. I heard the head hit when it snapped and let go, but didn't know what it was at the time. Some time after that, I found the head in the belly pan. I replaced it, shimmed it with a washer (or washers, can't remember) and haven't had an issue. All other bolts are also OK.
I can't remember the length of bolt needed, but make sure you buy a 8.8 grade or better bolt (stamped on the head) and matching high strength nut.
Jorge
 
I had a broken top motor mount bolt as well. Got the highest quality bolt Fastenal had (I forget what number it was) and haven't had a problem since.
 
SteveJ. said:
Homework.

https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/
Click to expand...
Steve, I didn't have a shim on the left front when I pulled the engine and I noticed that a washer would fill the gap so I did upon reassembly. The bike needed tires so I put on new Avon Storms. Now I've got this feeling of riding on sand or ice. Things I change on reassembly were the windshield, tires and shim.
Connie Rider saw it Friday and knew I had a problem. It's not the decel wobble problem. The whole bike sways under me. I think I read that the shim can help or hurt.
I'm talking with Sukoshi Fahey <SFahey@avonmoto.com> Avon rep, about the problem.
Any opinion?
 
Mike said:
SteveJ. said:
Homework.

https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/
Click to expand...
Steve, I didn't have a shim on the left front when I pulled the engine and I noticed that a washer would fill the gap so I did upon reassembly. The bike needed tires so I put on new Avon Storms. Now I've got this feeling of riding on sand or ice. Things I change on reassembly were the windshield, tires and shim.
Connie Rider saw it Friday and knew I had a problem. It's not the decel wobble problem. The whole bike sways under me. I think I read that the shim can help or hurt.
I'm talking with Sukoshi Fahey <SFahey@avonmoto.com> Avon rep, about the problem.
Any opinion?
Click to expand...
What size tires? It could be a binding/over tightened stearing head bearing. Is the driving on sand symptom new with the tires or did it exist before?
 
What size tires? It could be a binding/over tightened stearing head bearing. Is the driving on sand symptom new with the tires or did it exist before?
[/quote]
A low tire would feel the same and yes it started with new tires and 25" tall Clearview windshield.
I bought Avon Storm 120 70ZR 18 and 150 80R 16, Original sizes. I've been using bias plys for the last 50K. Never had this problem before.
Avon said "HI Mike, at this point you need to take it to the dealer. I can’t see how changing a shim would fix the issue. As mentioned before if the dealer concludes it is a tire problem he can ask for a replacement from the distributor and we can send a labor reimbursement form."
I can't see a tire doing it intermittently. I've got 40psi front and 42psi rear as recommended. I tightened the swing arm bearings and stem bearing a 1/8 turn but no change.
I put a tall Clearview windshield on at the same time. I'm trying my third type windshield. Headed to lunch at Fargo's in Brian, TX tomorrow with the old Rifle (100 miles each way ought get a good feel for it).
 
Both my upper motor mounts and washers are Home Depot, total cost, about $3.00. Cost for one Kawasaki upper right motor bolt, $8.00. I know, I know, but I installed those on the road coming back from a rally 3 years ago, I have the proper factory bolts and nuts in the tool tray under the seat.
 
Mike said:
What size tires? It could be a binding/over tightened stearing head bearing. Is the driving on sand symptom new with the tires or did it exist before?
Click to expand...
A low tire would feel the same and yes it started with new tires and 25" tall Clearview windshield.
I bought Avon Storm 120 70ZR 18 and 150 80R 16, Original sizes. I've been using bias plys for the last 50K. Never had this problem before.
Avon said "HI Mike, at this point you need to take it to the dealer. I can’t see how changing a shim would fix the issue. As mentioned before if the dealer concludes it is a tire problem he can ask for a replacement from the distributor and we can send a labor reimbursement form."
I can't see a tire doing it intermittently. I've got 40psi front and 42psi rear as recommended. I tightened the swing arm bearings and stem bearing a 1/8 turn but no change.
I put a tall Clearview windshield on at the same time. I'm trying my third type windshield. Headed to lunch at Fargo's in Brian, TX tomorrow with the old Rifle (100 miles each way ought get a good feel for it).
[/quote]The front tire is too big for the stock rim. MaKaw had Dunlop make up a tire, the K700 or 701 or something like that with a narrower nominally 110 width and had them put a 120 label on it. An apparent marketing gimmick to compete with the ST1100 at the time. If you do some research, you will find that the 110/80x18 is the ideal tire for the rim width. The 120 width will tend to fall over quickly and be twitchy as the tire is overly pinched on the rim forming more of a pointy profile rather than round..
 
The front tire is too big for the stock rim. MaKaw had Dunlop make up a tire, the K700 or 701 or something like that with a narrower nominally 110 width and had them put a 120 label on it. An apparent marketing gimmick to compete with the ST1100 at the time. If you do some research, you will find that the 110/80x18 is the ideal tire for the rim width. The 120 width will tend to fall over quickly and be twitchy as the tire is overly pinched on the rim forming more of a pointy profile rather than round..
[/quote]
Steve, Avon says the Avon Storm 120 70ZR 18 is the right tire. I've been using Dunlop E3 & Avon AM41 130 70B 18 and that would have been pinched even more.
http://www.avon-tyres.co.uk/motorcycle/storm-3d-x-m
According to their page, you're right if I have a 2.5 - 3" rim but I think the 2002 has a 3.5" rim. Correct?
 
Pre '94 front rim is 2.5 inches.  '94 on is 3".  Rear rim size for all years is 3.5".  When the Tech Pages problem is fixed, there is an article under "C10 86-06 > Wheels/Tires > 94-06 Front Tire Fitment Issues" that explains about the difference in tire sizes. 
 
  Stock front Rim, 94 up, 3.0"

  Proper tire size, 110/80-18

  Avon's fitment book is incorrect. I have spoken to Sukoshi Fahey at AVON about this. It lists the front rim as 3.5" IT IS NOT. While on the phone, she looked up Pirelli's info on the concours, which confirmed the 3.0" front rim. She told me she would advise her engineers.

this is one of those places that the owner needs to be educated enough to overide the manufacturer.

  Mike,

  you have what I call "the ball bearing dance" . Now I have a question for you. You stated you have new Storms. I want to know the exact model, the names (storm / storm2 / 3dxm / azaro) and I'll share info afterwards. Steve
 
Theres a big difference in the feel of the bike between radial tires and bias ply tires.  You said you had over 50k miles with bias ply tires and no problems.  I wonder if the feel of the Avons is throwing you off a little because they will feel much quicker and lighter compared to the slow, heavy feel of bias ply tires.

 
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
  Stock front Rim, 94 up, 3.0"

  Proper tire size, 110/80-18

  Avon's fitment book is incorrect. I have spoken to Sukoshi Fahey at AVON about this. It lists the front rim as 3.5" IT IS NOT. While on the phone, she looked up Pirelli's info on the concours, which confirmed the 3.0" front rim. She told me she would advise her engineers.

this is one of those places that the owner needs to be educated enough to overide the manufacturer.

  Mike,

  you have what I call "the ball bearing dance" . Now I have a question for you. You stated you have new Storms. I want to know the exact model, the names (storm / storm2 / 3dxm / azaro) and I'll share info afterwards. Steve
Click to expand...
"the ball bearing dance" is a good description, I was thinking ice or following a line.
3dxm
 

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Sparkie said:
Theres a big difference in the feel of the bike between radial tires and bias ply tires.  You said you had over 50k miles with bias ply tires and no problems.  I wonder if the feel of the Avons is throwing you off a little because they will feel much quicker and lighter compared to the slow, heavy feel of bias ply tires.
Click to expand...
I dumped the original Dunlop 7??'s after 3 sets of 6k each and followed lines like a hound dog.
I've been getting more than 15k with the E3 and Am41.
I was scared today driving over 50 and my arms are killing me from fighting it.
 
I specifically discussed this with Sukoshi, and she told me that the 3dxm wouldn't do this. She said that the previous tires were made with more of a triangular profile, and when riding in the center you'ld get that feeling , but they were made for cornering. I'm surprised to hear the 3dxm doing it. BTW, I have fixed a couple bikes doing that by adjusting the swingarm bearings, but I see you've done that. I assume you really only feel this in a straight line on the highway? Steve
 
I had 200 miles of it today.
Straight lines, curves, in traffic, out of traffic, with the wind, with out the wind, everything from 40 to 80 (I knew I would eat it any faster).
I know it's the tires but no dealer stocks them or wants to order them. I just sent Sukoshi Fahey an email for a dealer intervention. She out of the office Feb 19 and at a show Feb 20 to Feb 23 with limited access to email.
No one in Houston has or stocks the tire. I can understand their view point. At this point, I'm ready to put the old bias plys back on and forget this.
 
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