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CAM Shaft Timing

Zman

Guest
Guest
I'm baffled, measured and replaced valve shims accordingly using Fred's DVDs, put camshafts back in with EX cam marks at 3:00, Intake at 9:00, Crank at 4:1 and tried to measure new gaps and for instance on #4 there is not gap in intakes but gap on exhaust, Gap is good if I rotate intake cam to a non lobe position and gaps are good......... I don't understand!! See pictures and thanks in advance! 2011 Model year
 

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Don't be too focused on the pictures and I think there are some versions of the service manual that have incorrect images.

The key is to measure the clearances when the cams are pointing away from the buckets. If you look at the cam lobes as you rotate the crankshaft, you will see there are two points where things line up the way you want. One half of the buckets will be "unloaded" in one of those positions and the other half will be "unloaded" in the other position.

Beyond that I'm not clear on what you don't understand.
 
IF those 2 dots, and that very faint line running thru the N at the top of the first leg, are the timing marks. Then I would say you're good to go. I've never used that chart in the manual, just roll to the middle of the heel for each lobe.

Roll the motor over several times and make sure the timing marks repeat.
 
I'm baffled, measured and replaced valve shims accordingly using Fred's DVDs, put camshafts back in with EX cam marks at 3:00, Intake at 9:00, Crank at 4:1 and tried to measure new gaps and for instance on #4 there is not gap in intakes but gap on exhaust, Gap is good if I rotate intake cam to a non lobe position and gaps are good......... I don't understand!! See pictures and thanks in advance! 2011 Model year
Timing Rotor placement at the 4:1 mark the #4 cylinder (timing chain side of engine) all valves should either be closed (end of compression stroke) and able to be measured or all 4 open (end of exhaust stroke) and unable to be measured.

If it is any other way then something is not correct. We can diagnose this with a couple other pictures please:
  1. Better, clearer picture of the IN timing mark at 9:00 with the EX timing punch at 3:00
  2. Picture of #4 cylinder cam lobes at the same timing as bullet # 1
Will watch for photos.
 
If I understand, you measured the gaps and changed the shims already, now you've bolted the cams back in and you're trying to measure them again to confirm if they're correct?

If so, the only way to measure valve clearances is with the by the clearance on the base circle of the cam. The base circle is the round "heel" part of the cam lobe . There is an area on both sides of the base circle called "clearance ramps" this is where the lobe is starting to rise up and away from the base circle to provide lift for the valve. You do not want to be measuring in the clearance ramp... you need to be on the base circle.

As previously mentioned, if you point the tip of the lobe (nose) 180* away from the shim, you will be on the base circle. You cannot screw up measuring there. Just rotate the crank, till a set of lobes point up / away from the shims, and measure.

If you weren't on the base circle when you made your initial measurements, you need to revisit them, and expect to change them all.

Steve

ETA, in re-reading your intial post, it seems that maybe you just bolted the cams in and measured, but then didn't rotate the crank 1 turn and measure the "other" set of lobes that didn't have clearance when the crank was in the previous position. Using that method, you need to measure with the crank on 1-4, and one set of measurements with the cams at INT 3 / Ex 9 and then rotate to INT9 / EX3 for the second set of measurements. this needed to be done before removing the cams, and then again after the shims were changed to confirm clearances.
 
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I thought he is questioning if he has the cams installed correctly.
Seems to be getting lost - agreed.

Awaiting better photo to confirm timing is correct. I understand the lobe positioning discussion however this is not at all how Kawasaki has clearly defined the process.

Suggest we start with confirming photo of timing then also @Zman provide your shim worksheet before / after measurements using the KAWA instructions.
 
Thanks so much for the assistance…….. You guys rock! I knew some thing I did change from the first time I measured the gaps. It was a bonehead move on me…… I was setting the intake timing on the wrong mark. I was going off the indentation on the circumference of the cam, I never saw tHe scribe mark on the front of the cam, my eyes aren’t as good as the used to be! Got the engine back together and started just fine

. I was freaking out for an hour, I could not find the mating plugs for the three what is in the attached picture. I can only assume they were never hooked to anything since it did not throw a code and ran?

EC2A8E5B-0C16-4BCC-9AB0-0E579BB3B488.jpeg
 
Thanks so much for the assistance…….. You guys rock! I knew some thing I did change from the first time I measured the gaps. It was a bonehead move on me…… I was setting the intake timing on the wrong mark. I was going off the indentation on the circumference of the cam, I never saw tHe scribe mark on the front of the cam, my eyes aren’t as good as the used to be! Got the engine back together and started just fine

. I was freaking out for an hour, I could not find the mating plugs for the three what is in the attached picture. I can only assume they were never hooked to anything since it did not throw a code and ran?

View attachment 30809
Glad our questions gave you some ideas and you’re all set now!

I believe Black is your #1 cylinder side fan. Then the other two I’m going with grip warmer and locking compartment maybe.

Before buttoning up all the plastics make certain both fans work etc., coolant burped, yadda yadda…
 
I was skeptical of the line on the intake. It was just a reflection off the surface of the head.

I've had both retinas laser welded back on to the inside of my eyeballs. So I know about eyes not as good. I double and triple check everything.
 
Ahhh, I forgot the connectors on the glove box. I looked in every nook and cranny for plug I thought I stashed away, this project strung out over a month with 3 parts orders…… the memory is not as good either!

Sure do appreciate you guys…..
 
Ahhh, I forgot the connectors on the glove box. I looked in every nook and cranny for plug I thought I stashed away, this project strung out over a month with 3 parts orders…… the memory is not as good either!

Sure do appreciate you guys…..
I’m fairly new here as well, not so much on the Concours though. Many knowledgeable folks: SISF, Fred, Just Cliff with a zillion miles and many others.
 
That photo is a perfect example of one of my only gripes about these finally engineered and manufactured motorcycles. Why have three completely different style plugs with different disconnect methods? There is better logic to make sure the correct ends of cables get plugged together. It’s like that in other places as well, like the gas tank. I would think the different styles if nothing else make sourcing parts more difficult.
 
There is an error in the diagram in the manual that you posted that may be cornfusing you. I published an article on about it in 2012 and you can find it in Chalkdust. Basically, you need to make sure the cam lobe you're checking does not have the lobe pushing on the valve or else you'll measure no clearance. My first guess is that the manual diagram confused you and you're checking the wrong valves for the cam position. You should be checking the valves that are indicated by BLACKENED circles in the diagram.
 

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