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Clutch Howl - How to Fix?

T

timdow507

Guest
Guest
I just bought the bike 6 months ago. The sound happens when slipping the clutch during launch. It is fairly easy to engage the clutch w/o having it make noise, but no drag races! It had new oil in it when I bought it, so I just got around to changing oil. I went to diesel oil... T6, and after the oil change there is no improvement. It has been suggested that the problem is caused by running oil with friction modifiers sometime in the bikes life, which seems feasible to me.

Can anyone confirm or deny that replacing clutch discs solves the problem? This seems to me to be the thing to do next. I have the bike for sale, and the bike is perfect except for this issue. I sure would like to fix this issue for whoever the new owner will be.
 
Give a detailed description of the "howl". I have been on C14 forums since 07 and don't remember any posts about clutch howl. Are you sure it is not the hydraulic adjustable valve timing mechanism? That has been a common complaint. As for friction modifiers that usually results in clutch slippage, have not heard about a "howl" related to this. But replacing discs would solve that problem.
 
Pretty sure it is clutch related. Happens only when slipping the clutch during a hard launch. Difficult to describe a noise, but It's pretty loud.
 
Have similar experience here. Synthetic oil related, esp Redline, but even a bit with Kawa factory and Mobil1. Can't speak to T6 or Amsoil.

Swap to Rotella 15w-40 dino and see if it makes difference. Takes about 20 miles to move the clutch faces to the new oil. Yep annoying, but I'm living with it for now.
 
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My 2011 C-14 has done this since I bought her March 2020. Her former owner had 6 very nice bikes and was a maintenance fanatic. But he was an admitted "oil snob." His term, not mine. He insisted that high grade motor oil was the same as motorcycle oil and I agreed with one caveat. I told him the friction modifiers in motor oil are different than bike oil because cars and trucks do not have wet clutches that share the motor oil. Clutches do not like those modifiers, and that is why bike manuals are very specific about not only oil weight and viscosity, but also certification. JASO MA is the recommendation for engine, gearbox and wet clutches because it is not friction modified. While JASO MB may seem like a match, it isn't, and it should not be used where JASO MA is required.

Those that don't pay any attention to these manufacturer specs and use their favorite car or truck oil end up with motorcycle clutches what tend to complain about the oil in the form of a howling sound when slipping the clutch at higher power levels or with an increased load (2 up, starts on a steep incline, and so on). It only happens when working the clutch hard in the friction zone and stops once the clutch is fully engaged. I have swapped out my oil 4 times since I got the bike and use JASO MA formulations religiously, but my clutch still bitches about the former owners well intentioned bad practice when it comes to proper lubrication. I suspect the organic friction plates will need to be swapped out before this goes away permanently and I may do that this winter if I can find the parts.
 
red fox said:
Have similar experience here. Synthetic oil related, esp Redline, but even a bit with Kawa factory and Mobil1. Can't speak to T6 or Amsoil.

Swap to Rotella 15w-40 dino and see if it makes difference. Takes about 20 miles to move the clutch faces to the new oil. Yep annoying, but I'm living with it for now.
Click to expand...

Hi Fox,

Rest assured I'm not callin your kid ugly by saying this, I'm just reporting what I know to be true. I'm not aware of any Rotella that is JASO CERTIFIED, they use terms like "meets the performance requirements of JASO, but that is not the same thing as JASO certified and that is the spec Kawasaki wants.

Once I change my clutch this winter, I will not be using anything that does not say JASO MA certified/approved on the container. As I said in my prior message in this thread. My bike's prior owner did an incredible job of taking care of my Connie and I really appreciate him! But he clearly got it wrong when it comes to my clutch. It is noisy as hell when being pushed and that could have easily been avoided if he only stuck to the oil spec specified by the manufacturer.
 
ursharkfuel said:
Hi Fox,

Rest assured I'm not callin your kid ugly by saying this, I'm just reporting what I know to be true. I'm not aware of any Rotella that is JASO CERTIFIED, they use terms like "meets the performance requirements of JASO, but that is not the same thing as JASO certified and that is the spec Kawasaki wants.

Once I ... my clutch. It is noisy as hell when being pushed and that could have easily been avoided if he only stuck to the oil spec specified by the manufacturer.
Click to expand...
Hey sharky, you must have got my post mixed up with another. I never mentioned JASO rating. This is a thread on clutch howl and every one of the oils that let my clutch howl was JASO rated. My point was brand/flavor vs brand/flavor. The Rotella dino 15w-40 I suggested is also JASO rated 'I think;' don't shoot me again! Final post this thread - good luck all.
 
timdow507 said:
I have the bike for sale, and the bike is perfect except for this issue. I sure would like to fix this issue for whoever the new owner will be.
Click to expand...
Are you planning to hang around after the sale of your C-14? The above quoted displays the type of integrity I have come to expect from COG members.

After the replacement please inform everyone if this resolved the issue.

Thank You for stepping up and doing the right thing - champion in my book 👏.

Wayne, Carol & Blue
 
timdow507 said:
I have done a bunch of mc work, but never a clutch. Going to give it a try.

I am ordering this complete Barnett clutch kit w/springs made in USA:

www.ebay.com

BARNETT CLUTCH KIT KAWASAKI ZG1400 CONCOURS ZG 1400 2008 - 2022 motorcycle | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for BARNETT CLUTCH KIT KAWASAKI ZG1400 CONCOURS ZG 1400 2008 - 2022 motorcycle at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
I don't have experience with Barnett in the C14, but they made a solid product for my son's CRF250 when he was racing. The stock clutch never lived long the way he rode it, but after the Barnett basket, plates, and springs I never had to mess with it again.
 
2andblue said:
Are you planning to hang around after the sale of your C-14? The above quoted displays the type of integrity I have come to expect from COG members.

After the replacement please inform everyone if this resolved the issue.

Thank You for stepping up and doing the right thing - champion in my book 👏.

Wayne, Carol & Blue
Click to expand...

Thanks for the good words... I just bought the bike about 6 months ago, and I wish the PO would have mentioned it. I was careful with it on the test ride, so I did not notice.

I still have the trial membership, and I intended to upgrade when my 6 months was up, but probably won't if I don't have the bike anymore. But... the bike is not sold yet!
 
timdow507 said:
Thanks for the good words... I just bought the bike about 6 months ago, and I wish the PO would have mentioned it. I was careful with it on the test ride, so I did not notice.

I still have the trial membership, and I intended to upgrade when my 6 months was up, but probably won't if I don't have the bike anymore. But... the bike is not sold yet!
Click to expand...
BTW - Why are you wanting to sell? Not the right fit for you? Competing interests and not enough time to ride? Different than you expected?

Or possibly you lost all your riding buddies as the C-14’s intergalactic oneness scared all others away..?
 
2andblue said:
BTW - Why are you wanting to sell? Not the right fit for you? Competing interests and not enough time to ride? Different than you expected?

Or possibly you lost all your riding buddies as the C-14’s intergalactic oneness scared all others away..?
Click to expand...

Fit is good. I have had 3 FJR's, and this bike is about the same. I really like riding it, but I have tinnitus bad and even with earplugs my ears ring after riding. Kinda rules out long distance riding for me.
 
timdow507 said:
I have done a bunch of mc work, but never a clutch. Going to give it a try.

I am ordering this complete Barnett clutch kit w/springs made in USA:

www.ebay.com

BARNETT CLUTCH KIT KAWASAKI ZG1400 CONCOURS ZG 1400 2008 - 2022 motorcycle | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for BARNETT CLUTCH KIT KAWASAKI ZG1400 CONCOURS ZG 1400 2008 - 2022 motorcycle at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...
I hope the Barnett works better for the 14 than it did for my Z1. I ended up going back to stock plates after a year or so , used ones at that.
 
timdow507 said:
What was the issue with the Barnett plate
Click to expand...
Disclaimer- I have owned the bike for over 40 years and this was early on.
With hard launch's they got real grabby. They also tended to stick together after sitting over the winter months. Had the basket out many times. For the Z and KZ Barnett came with an extra plate.
Drag forums claimed stock was the best.I had a lot of used stock plates. Put a set in and all is well.
Your milage may vary😄
 
kzz1king said:
Disclaimer- I have owned the bike for over 40 years and this was early on.
With hard launch's they got real grabby. They also tended to stick together after sitting over the winter months. Had the basket out many times. For the Z and KZ Barnett came with an extra plate.
Drag forums claimed stock was the best.I had a lot of used stock plates. Put a set in and all is well.
Your milage may vary😄
Click to expand...
Thank you for sharing your experience. It is nice that the Barnett kit comes with all the plates and springs in a convenient kit, but I suppose that if I can get stock parts I should probably go with that.
 
timdow507 said:
Thank you for sharing your experience. It is nice that the Barnett kit comes with all the plates and springs in a convenient kit, but I suppose that if I can get stock parts I should probably go with that.
Click to expand...
To be honest I don't know. This kit would have been bought close to 40 years ago! There was also a lot more feedback and comparison info due to the popularity of the Kawi in drag racing. You need to decide if you want to be a pioneer.
Have you compared price to stock?
I wonder if anyone has trying soaking the plates in gas or some other solvent and really attempting to get the old oil out?
Best wishes.
 
kzz1king said:
To be honest I don't know. This kit would have been bought close to 40 years ago! There was also a lot more feedback and comparison info due to the popularity of the Kawi in drag racing. You need to decide if you want to be a pioneer.
Have you compared price to stock?
I wonder if anyone has trying soaking the plates in gas or some other solvent and really attempting to get the old oil out?
Best wishes.
Click to expand...

I was hopeful that someone out there would have changed their clutch plates and springs could verify that it fixed the issue. I am guessing that either the plates are glazed, or that the springs or the clutch itself applying uneven pressure.

Whatever I end up with stock or aftermarket, I will report back on my findings.
 
timdow507 said:
I was hopeful that someone out there would have changed their clutch plates and springs could verify that it fixed the issue.
Click to expand...

I can't say I've ever heard of anyone having to change out a clutch. Even being higher miles than average, I still have the original clutch in mine.
 
timdow507 said:
Yes the Rotella T6 15/40 I put in my bike says Jaso ma/ma2 on the container.
Click to expand...

I believe you and Cliff. I looked on the Shell site and it was noticeably absent when I looked, but I have no doubt that you both have better resources than I have, and you have the actual bottles which is the best source. (y)
 
timdow507 said:
I have done a bunch of mc work, but never a clutch. Going to give it a try.

I am ordering this complete Barnett clutch kit w/springs made in USA:

www.ebay.com

BARNETT CLUTCH KIT KAWASAKI ZG1400 CONCOURS ZG 1400 2008 - 2022 motorcycle | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for BARNETT CLUTCH KIT KAWASAKI ZG1400 CONCOURS ZG 1400 2008 - 2022 motorcycle at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!
www.ebay.com
Click to expand...

I have changed my fair share of wet and dry bike clutches. The wet are more messy and harder to get to, but I would not call it a difficult job.

My clutch lining/plates/organic surface/(insert name here) are definitely at fault for my noisy clutch. The clutch works fine, no slipping or vibrating, it just howls like a wolf when I do a stronger than normal launch until the clutch is fully released. I plan to use recorder with a mic near the clutch to capture the sound so I can share the audio with the group. It is definitely doing it, and it can even be heard by riders right next to me when we pull off a light or a stop.


red fox said:
Hey sharky, you must have got my post mixed up with another. I never mentioned JASO rating. This is a thread on clutch howl and every one of the oils that let my clutch howl was JASO rated. My point was brand/flavor vs brand/flavor. The Rotella dino 15w-40 I suggested is also JASO rated 'I think;' don't shoot me again! Final post this thread - good luck all.
Click to expand...

I would never shoot ya Fox. Make a joke or pull your leg? Definitely, but never shoot.
 
timdow507 said:
I was hopeful that someone out there would have changed their clutch plates and springs could verify that it fixed the issue. I am guessing that either the plates are glazed, or that the springs or the clutch itself applying uneven pressure.

Whatever I end up with stock or aftermarket, I will report back on my findings.
Click to expand...

Tim, I'm definitely doing mine this winter. Just need to find the parts is all. Maybe not the Barnett link earlier in this thread after some of the feedback, but I'm gonna be looking.
 
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Just Cliff said:
I can't say I've ever heard of anyone having to change out a clutch. Even being higher miles than average, I still have the original clutch in mine.
Click to expand...

But you are the iron man Cliff! :cool: You have gone where many have never gone....(y)

Ok, all kidding aside. I want to do anything you're doing because getting 250K out of any bike is an amazing feat to be sure!! So whatever you're doing, I'm doing, cuz I dearly love my Connie and that's the truth!

I just hate that howling/moaning/sad sound she makes when I want a little more inspired launch off a stop or on a hill. Maybe it's a broken spring in the clutch, but something is not 100% in any case and my money is on the former owner's oil habits. He had an HD, a Guzzi, and a couple Ducati's in his stable all with dry clutches and I know for a fact he would used motor oil because he said so - Castrol GTX I think he said. So I plan to take the case cover off the clutch this winter and find out for sure what is happening.
 
Before I tore into the clutch, I'd make absolutely sure that the clutch hydraulic system was in perfect working order. We have heard of corrosion causing clutch issues in the past. Seems like stack height is pretty critical, so I'm not sure I'd go aftermarket if I did replace the clutch. Others should have more knowledge about this. HTH
 
Bud said:
Before I tore into the clutch, I'd make absolutely sure that the clutch hydraulic system was in perfect working order. We have heard of corrosion causing clutch issues in the past. Seems like stack height is pretty critical, so I'm not sure I'd go aftermarket if I did replace the clutch. Others should have more knowledge about this. HTH
Click to expand...

Hey Bud!

I have no plans to go aftermarket.

I'm sure there is no clutch control or engagement control (Hydro, servo, hose, etc.) issues involved because it does not happen UNTIL I start to engage the clutch. Corrosion? Not on this bike unless it came from a bath. She is in Southern California and I am 100% positive she has not been out in the rain in her entire lifespan. Not to mention rain is a rare thing here. The prior 1st owner said, since he is a purely pleasure rider, he never goes out when where was a hint of weather - ever. He hates cleaning up the mess it makes so he doesn't go on the bike - that's car duty according to him and she has only lived in my garage or his. I admit, this Connie has been VERY pampered.

My issue has to do with the friction zone of the clutch. It does not occur before I pull the clutch in, while the clutch is disengaged, or after I fully release the handle at full engagement. It only occurs when the clutch is being placed under load (starts to pull the bike) with the RPM higher than a routine start from a stop. And it seems to grow more severe in proportion to the throttle applied. Higher RPM (notice I did not say RPM plural, which is a meaningless expression) the louder the clutch moans/howls/whatever you want to call it, the lower the RPM the lesser the noise with no unusual noise when at a normal takeoff and babying it. The noise is connected to the clutch engagement point only when it comes under load. Sort of how worn brakes let you know when you apply them, same concept, just different circumstances. And lets all refrain from talking about the brake wear indicators, I know clutches don't have them and that's not what I am talking about. I'm just trying to describe WHEN the noise happens and compare it to something everyone has heard before. We have all heard the howl a large truck makes when braking hard, this is a VERY similar sound.
 
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ursharkfuel said:
Higher RPM (notice I did not say RPM plural, which is a meaningless expression)...
Click to expand...
It's funny to dig into this a little bit... In the world of modern motorcycle engines spinning upwards of 10,000 revs, there is literally only ONE case that RPM is singular, that is 1 RPM. All other engine speeds (99.99% in the case of the C14) would be R(s)PM...

In fact, even the earliest steam engines from the early 1700s were 10+ SPM, and in the early 1900s 60+ RPM was a more common speed!
1635528038710.png
 
ursharkfuel said:
Hey Bud!

I have no plans to go aftermarket.

I'm sure there is no clutch control or engagement control (Hydro, servo, hose, etc.) issues involved because it does not happen UNTIL I start to engage the clutch. Corrosion? Not on this bike unless it came from a bath. She is in Southern California and I am 100% positive she has not been out in the rain in her entire lifespan. Not to mention rain is a rare thing here. The prior 1st owner said, since he is a purely pleasure rider, he never goes out when where was a hint of weather - ever. He hates cleaning up the mess it makes so he doesn't go on the bike - that's car duty according to him and she has only lived in my garage or his. I admit, this Connie has been VERY pampered.

My issue has to do with the friction zone of the clutch. It does not occur before I pull the clutch in, while the clutch is disengaged, or after I fully release the handle at full engagement. It only occurs when the clutch is being placed under load (starts to pull the bike) with the RPM higher than a routine start from a stop. And it seems to grow more severe in proportion to the throttle applied. Higher RPM (notice I did not say RPM plural, which is a meaningless expression) the louder the clutch moans/howls/whatever you want to call it, the lower the RPM the lesser the noise with no unusual noise when at a normal takeoff and babying it. The noise is connected to the clutch engagement point only when it comes under load. Sort of how worn brakes let you know when you apply them, same concept, just different circumstances. And lets all refrain from talking about the brake wear indicators, I know clutches don't have them and that's not what I am talking about. I'm just trying to describe WHEN the noise happens and compare it to something everyone has heard before. We have all heard the howl a large truck makes when braking hard, this is a VERY similar sound.
Click to expand...
Screeching brake pads... that's a good comparison.

All corrosion related issues I have heard of and experienced were in the hydraulic system. Not the case here for me, either. It's not the operation of the clutch, rather the engagement that is the issue. As I mentioned in the first post here to avoid the noise, I simply don't slip the clutch.

Depending on the availability of the stock parts I may go with the Barnett kit.
 
Well a bit of luck came my way as the clutch just stopped making noise! I figure that oil with friction modifiers was in the bike when I purchased it, then I changed the oil and I guess it took a while for the oil to remove whatever slick crap was on the discs. Don't know for sure, but I am sure happy that it is better now.
 
fastenova8707 said:
It's funny to dig into this a little bit... In the world of modern motorcycle engines spinning upwards of 10,000 revs, there is literally only ONE case that RPM is singular, that is 1 RPM. All other engine speeds (99.99% in the case of the C14) would be R(s)PM...

In fact, even the earliest steam engines from the early 1700s were 10+ SPM, and in the early 1900s 60+ RPM was a more common speed!
View attachment 30786
Click to expand...

I would say you are right, but also wrong - in this context.

If folks were actually saying REVOLUTION*S* Per Minute RsPM I would agree.

Unfortunately this is not stated that way. Folks say, she is turning 1,500 RPMs, and in that fashion acronym means multiple minutes which makes the measurement meaningless. Is it 1500 times in 2 minutes, 50 minutes, or somewhere in between? In 2 minutes it is 750 RPM, over 50 mins it would be 30 RPM. The point being, RPMs is an meaningless expression. Revolutions Per (single) Minute is the real measurement. Adding the "s" is poor communication and far too common - mostly with race car drivers! LOL
 
timdow507 said:
Well a bit of luck came my way as the clutch just stopped making noise! I figure that oil with friction modifiers was in the bike when I purchased it, then I changed the oil and I guess it took a while for the oil to remove whatever slick crap was on the discs. Don't know for sure, but I am sure happy that it is better now.
Click to expand...

No such luck here. I have done multiple oil changes, trying different brands - same result. But it's good to hear you got it resolved.

Regards.....
 
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