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EPA Fines for Reflashing ECUs

freebird6

Member
Member
Simple, they lost and paid their fines. Truth of the matter is, many of those stock pipes that got removed have compliance statements stamped into the metal. Yes, I have seen them over the years, but don't recall the exact verbiage, that it says something to the effect that removing or modifying these pipes is illegal. But that is far from an exact quote.

So here is the gig. I have always believed that my rights end, where the next person's begin - it is called mutual respect. I do not have to right to inflict myself or my personal beliefs on you or anyone else. Sure we can talk about it, and even debate the subject, but at the end of the day its a free country and you should be allowed to do what you want - so long as you respect the rights of others. And here comes the big but.......

But my next door neighbor DOES NOT have the right to wake up my entire family (and others in my neighborhood) early in the morning because he likes to take his obnoxious straight pipe equipped V Twin sneezer out for a ride at the a$$ crack of dawn every Saturday morning (and a few Sundays). Naturally that two wheeled POS rarely runs well, so he must endlessly gun it and tweak it for an extended period prior to departing only to high rev it in first gear the first mile or so. And by the way, before you try to say that the noise from the pipes saves lives, then please explain why the speakers must start blasting prior to engine up, and why they must continue to blast at the intersections when he is not moving or needing to be located for "safety" reasons, not to mention him hear horn or sirens. I rode my bike with him just once and he is a rolling accident waiting to happen! And I love the protective gear this "safety" conscious guy wears, like the helmet that could be easily mistaken for a Yamaka if he was Jewish. I'm sure he wears that highly protective item because he is so concerned about "safety." The fact is, he is an obnoxious a-hole that surrounds himself with noise 24/7 because everything he owns that can make a noise has been modified to make the most noise possible. Everyone I live around says they know when this a$$ is home or away by the peace in the neighborhood when he is away. It is a fact that he does not respect the rights of others who should not have to deal with the God awful noise he creates from sun up to sun down and sometimes late into the night. But the double standard come out when he goes to sleep at 8:30 or 9 PM and insists it should be completely quiet in the neighborhood for him or when his grand kids visit, but if he is entertaining you get to hear it into the early morning hours or again when he gets up sometimes before dawn! This behavior is known as disturbing the peace and it is not legal, not to mention there are community noise ordinances that should prevent it that he loves to violate with near impunity. I say impunity because the last police officer that visited spent an hour chatting with him about bikes and comparing notes on their V Twins and their favorite mods. I couldn't help but hear some of it because it was 20 or so feet from my open bedroom window. And I tend to love the cops, but that guy made my list.....

Yet the toxic neighbor is not alone. Should some jerk in a dead silent crowded residential area be allowed to blow it out at 2 AM, I assume on his way home from work nightly and wake up hundreds of people for a quarter mile in each direction. Noise tends to travel when its silent in the dead of night when there are no other vehicles moving, but this jackass gets to wake up ALL OF US up who like to have our windows open when its cool at night? Not to mention the dogs that bark for the next hour after he pissed them off! I guess this guy needs that noise to make sure he can "safely" avoid I guess bats or zombies that may attack if his bike could not rattle the foundations of the nearby homes. Yeah, that sounds like a reasonable excuse.

What a bunch of crap, noise is only noise and nothing else. I'm sorry, don't buy the loud pipes are safe fable. Some people just need to be seen and heard and that's the truth of it. The rest is a bunch of nonsense to justify inconsiderate behavior. Those that believe this myth would make their car/truck/van loud too if it was true, because they are not always visible in blind spots or on the other side of high profile vehicles. It's all nonsense and the reasons offered defy logic. My bike does have an aftermarket exhaust and can make plenty of noise, but my neighbors tell me they cant tell when I come or go each morning or evening, unlike "other people" in our neighborhood. Why? because unlike Mr. Noise, I feel compelled to be respectful of others and I refuse to "turn it up" unless I am on a highway or well away from people - I do not have that right nor should anyone else, with or without self restraint.


I totally agree with this sentiment. When I see my State Trooper, County Deputies and City Police friends, I constantly iquire about the Blacked out windows they use as an excuse not to pursue distracted driving and texting laws, Blacked out tailights off eBay with after market bulbs that can't be seen by drivers following , trailers that neglect to connect the lights to the pickup truck so there is no warning because (believe it or not) you can't see throught the trailer to see the truck lights. When they bold faced tell me someone going over 7 mph faster than the limit they are "endangering others" I have to laugh and say "Dude, I laid in a coma for 9 days because someone took me out on the bike....there is no way a speeder paying attention and driving quick and clean is more dangerous than someone with no visible lights, someone who is texting or someone who turns on a signal that you can't see through the blacked out lens" My life is endangered by all those folks whose rights ended when they put my life at risk. And I do agree with your sentiment that those idjuts who run LOUD exhausts and add in a louder than shit radio that plays music 75 feet behind where they are have cast a bad light on ALL cyclists and are infringing on the rights of others . ........getting off my soapbox.....
 

khager01

Moped
Forum Subscriber
Guest
The only ones I do agree cracking down on is the coal-rollers. It's real bad in TX, I have been rolled on twice now while riding my bike,:mad: I don't know why, I guess because they couldn't find a Prius.
 

texas.devops

Eager Upshifter in SW Houston
Member
I’d think there are far more straight-piped Harleys than tuned C10s and C14s combined. Something doesn’t add up here IMO. Feels like fear porn to me.
 
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dirtwiz

Member
Member
I don't understand how they detect the flash....can't you just have it in ECO mode when its tested...supposedly ECO is untouched in the flashing process?
 

texas.devops

Eager Upshifter in SW Houston
Member
I don't understand how they detect the flash....can't you just have it in ECO mode when its tested...supposedly ECO is untouched in the flashing process?
Not sure about the details as I’m not an engineer, but I believe there are three parts that make up a test (talking about our machines that we ride over to the testing center).
A) exhaust system & catalytic converter(s);
B) engine tuning for lean/rich settings;
C) fuel being burned.

Here’s an article I started reading…

 

khager01

Moped
Forum Subscriber
Guest
Also would like to add, I am not aware of any states that have annual or bi-annual emission testing for motorcycles. Are there any out there?
 

zarticus

Member
Member
I don't think they can see if there is a flash in our ECU. Even with a KDS system you can't tell its been flashed. Also I do believe the flash's are built on the factory flash so it's not like you plug into the ECU and it greets you with "hello, I've been flashed by so & so"
 

texas.devops

Eager Upshifter in SW Houston
Member
According to California DMV, smog tests are not performed on motorcycles.

"Unlike cars or trucks, motorcycles do not require a smog check before registration."


Well, that pretty much means that flashed ECUs are not at risk, nor are aftermarket pipes (unless there's a noise abatement issue).

Thanks for the link David! Well done.

Next topic? LOL
 

ursharkfuel

God got one thing wrong: Stupid should be PAINFUL!
Member
Where did you get the ideas that I thought it was a conspiracy or that I needed to lighten up? Seriously, I'm getting questions daily, and seeing on other places online constantly. about folks putting on catless exhausts. Since the Black Widow system was released they can't keep them is stock. These are being shipped in from England. It really makes me wonder about how the epa and other government agencies work together, in that we are allowing importation and purchase of foriegn product to bypass our emissions laws, and yet cracking down and fining American companies for violations.

Steve,

I hate to be the one delivering the bad news, but our Government doesn't give a rip about fair play when their agenda is threatened. And that is just the cold hard truth of the matter.

In America, if we eliminated 100% of our carbon emissions it would only make a 1 to 4% difference across the ENTIRE planet. 😮 The difference depends on which expert you ask and their political point of view - so forget the politics for a sec.... under 5% is just a ridiculous amount to destroy lives and our economy if you are trying to make a real difference and not just a symbolic change. So what I would like to know is, what is being done about the other 99 to 96%? Where is the governmental tyranny on those gross polluters? :mad: Simple answer, they are not doing damn thing about them and that is why I don't buy into the climate change agenda - it is more transparent than undies from Fredericks of Hollywood and not half as sexy. It is a cause without real purpose, but there are many getting filthy rich off of all the "change" when all you really see is money changing hands.
 

ursharkfuel

God got one thing wrong: Stupid should be PAINFUL!
Member
Operative word=car,Motorcycles are not required to have smog test in California, yet

You are correct sir, although there is discussion in the legislature to change the exception rules. The same thing happened with 2 stoke vehicles. One moment they were fine, and the next second things got let's say "difficult" for owners and sellers of 2 strokes.
 

FTB530

Member
Member
You are correct sir, although there is discussion in the legislature to change the exception rules. The same thing happened with 2 stoke vehicles. One moment they were fine, and the next second things got let's say "difficult" for owners and sellers of 2 strokes.
Not doubting it will happen , but as of now there is no testing,i am kinda curious how that will be done, my bike has All Ca requirements other then pipe. Might nail me on decibles.
 

Tim R

Moderator
Staff member
Member
Thankfully I don't live in an area that requires emission testing on any vehicle at this time. I don't understand how a flashed bike that gets better gas mileage with a cat installed would fail an emissions test. And how they would know the ecu has been flashed unless it's a VW. That is unless you have weak valve seals and the cat efficiency has been reduced. But even with that a flashed ecu would be hard to detect I would think. (09's do not have a eco mode)

Those with diesels that roll coal should be looked at though. They are obviously over fueled. Sorry.
 

khager01

Moped
Forum Subscriber
Guest
Yeah I don’t see how they could test motorcycles either, it’s not like they have an OBD II port, and It’s not as easy to put on a Dyno as a car is. I don’t see them being able to detect an ECU flash. Of course exhaust is easily detected, but you could always remove your slip on once a year and temporarily bolt on the OEM for annual inspection. They don’t seem to be bothering motorcycles yet though, look at all the straight piped HD’s still out there even in CA. I also agree something needs to be done about the Coal Rollers.
 

ursharkfuel

God got one thing wrong: Stupid should be PAINFUL!
Member
What's next?........... testing lawn mowers for Gods sake? Who wouldn't like a Mountain Runner Premium on their Toro.

Here in the People's Republic of Socialist California, mowers and weed wackers were forced to change years ago. They are now tightening the screws on......wait for it......... BBQ grills! Yes, if you are using wood or charcoal, they say you are killing your grand children and should be fined!!
 

chrismpero

Member
Member
Here in the People's Republic of Socialist California, mowers and weed wackers were forced to change years ago. They are now tightening the screws on......wait for it......... BBQ grills! Yes, if you are using wood or charcoal, they say you are killing your grand children and should be fined!!
Lol! I own 2 charcoal smokers and 1 charcoal grill. Obviously I don't use em all at once tho. I work for a Railroad and we have 16cyl 4k HP diesel engines that throw out an enormous amount of HC and CO's. They burn a couple hundred gallons in a trip everyday. Nevermind how much they burn when idling..We and every other Railroad should get our balls broke if anybody.. /rant over lol
 

ursharkfuel

God got one thing wrong: Stupid should be PAINFUL!
Member
Lol! I own 2 charcoal smokers and 1 charcoal grill. Obviously I don't use em all at once tho. I work for a Railroad and we have 16cyl 4k HP diesel engines that throw out an enormous amount of HC and CO's. They burn a couple hundred gallons in a trip everyday. Nevermind how much they burn when idling..We and every other Railroad should get our balls broke if anybody.. /rant over lol

Yep, there is a special wing in hell awaiting you my friend once your gross polluting ways are done....... :ROFLMAO:
 

fartymarty

Member
Member
Ok, OK, let's quit bashing everything that tries to make our air and water better for us. Trains pollute much less than an equivalent number of trucks to haul the same materials. Could some more be done to control train pollution?..probably but it would cost more and that money could be spent elsewhere for better effect. Regardless of whether global warming is a natural earth cycle or if it is indeed a product of our pollution...it's just common sense (that term is like "fairness" everybody has their own definition of what's fair and what is common sense so I use it somewhat in jest)...it's just common sense not to put poisons into the air we breathe and the water we drink. Sometimes those that are trying to change our polluting ways do get a bit out of control, as do those that resist and express their defiance by coal rolling. Lawn mowers pollute 11 times as much as a modern car does in hour per hour comparisons so yes eventually there will be some address of that (soon I hope). Almost anyone that has flown commercially with a window seat in the late sixties and early seventies in the U.S. can recall the layer of brown "stuff" that we climbed through and then later at the end of the flight descended through. It is essentially gone now at least in the U.S., I don't fly as much as I used to but when I do I still look for it. I can only imagine how bad it would be now if we had done nothing at all.
As much as I hate open exhaust on motorcycles, truth is noise pollution is just noise. It may have some effect on wildlife but it doesn't linger in the air like HC and CO does. So go ahead and install a slip-on if you want to, but please don't go busting out your cats for a negligible amount (if any) of gain in performance.
Vent all you want about out of control bureaucrats and some of their silly ideas and regulation proposals, but getting rid of all attempts to control our pollution is not the answer. It's not the goal that's bad, it's just how we do it that needs adjusting. Personally I think the lawn mower pollution problem is much worse than what minimal auto/motorcycle re-flashers are doing. I would not mind if lawns in general were reduced across the country by 50% or more to reduce mower pollution, reduce water usage, reduce fertilizer run off, reduce insecticide usage etc. I'll bet the golfers here are especially glad I'm not in charge. :D
There eventually will be a natural correction, people and their pollution are the problem, and eventually if we don't further address our polluting ways there will be fewer of us, so it will eventually stabilize after some oscillation. Probably be a lot of physical suffering and extinction events in the future of our grand-kids and theirs if we decide to go that route.
 

texas.devops

Eager Upshifter in SW Houston
Member
Ok, OK, let's quit bashing everything that tries to make our air and water better for us. Trains pollute much less than an equivalent number of trucks to haul the same materials. Could some more be done to control train pollution?..probably but it would cost more and that money could be spent elsewhere for better effect. Regardless of whether global warming is a natural earth cycle or if it is indeed a product of our pollution...it's just common sense (that term is like "fairness" everybody has their own definition of what's fair and what is common sense so I use it somewhat in jest)...it's just common sense not to put poisons into the air we breathe and the water we drink. Sometimes those that are trying to change our polluting ways do get a bit out of control, as do those that resist and express their defiance by coal rolling. Lawn mowers pollute 11 times as much as a modern car does in hour per hour comparisons so yes eventually there will be some address of that (soon I hope). Almost anyone that has flown commercially with a window seat in the late sixties and early seventies in the U.S. can recall the layer of brown "stuff" that we climbed through and then later at the end of the flight descended through. It is essentially gone now at least in the U.S., I don't fly as much as I used to but when I do I still look for it. I can only imagine how bad it would be now if we had done nothing at all.
As much as I hate open exhaust on motorcycles, truth is noise pollution is just noise. It may have some effect on wildlife but it doesn't linger in the air like HC and CO does. So go ahead and install a slip-on if you want to, but please don't go busting out your cats for a negligible amount (if any) of gain in performance.
Vent all you want about out of control bureaucrats and some of their silly ideas and regulation proposals, but getting rid of all attempts to control our pollution is not the answer. It's not the goal that's bad, it's just how we do it that needs adjusting. Personally I think the lawn mower pollution problem is much worse than what minimal auto/motorcycle re-flashers are doing. I would not mind if lawns in general were reduced across the country by 50% or more to reduce mower pollution, reduce water usage, reduce fertilizer run off, reduce insecticide usage etc. I'll bet the golfers here are especially glad I'm not in charge. :D
There eventually will be a natural correction, people and their pollution are the problem, and eventually if we don't further address our polluting ways there will be fewer of us, so it will eventually stabilize after some oscillation. Probably be a lot of physical suffering and extinction events in the future of our grand-kids and theirs if we decide to go that route.

I do NOT want to get into the middle of a slugfest, but the notion that we're killing the planet by burning dino juice is half junk. The "poisons" we emit while riding, driving, hauling, cutting, etc is actually FOOD for all those green plants we see around us. I laugh a little inside every time I hear someone rattling off about how CO2 is going to lead to a food shortage and mass starvation. Only the gov't and Monsanto can lead us to a food shortage. As long as the commodity market is solid and there is a profit to be made there will be farmers who will grow fields of green stuff that we'll eat.

There is literally nothing more that I need to say about this subject. 99% of what folks say is bunk because they're simple-mindedly regurgitating what they heard on CNN, MSDNC, etc.
 

ursharkfuel

God got one thing wrong: Stupid should be PAINFUL!
Member
At no point have I ever advocated for dirty air or water, I just don't believe in being forced to do something that is more of a political cause than a scientific cause. And it is exactly that - a political movement without exception. Imagine, a scientific phenomenon that adheres exclusively to a specific political point of view?!? I wonder when the weather, tides, the phase of the moon, and other such natural events will begin to bow to the whims of our so called political leaders? That would be pretty amazing event when the physical world as we know it, suddenly alters its normal and understood behavior to respect political needs and desires. What a concept! I'm none to worried about that happening any time soon. Because I can't get a reliable forecast with up to the minute data for the weather TOMORROW, but these same folks claim they can accurately predict the weather 10, 20, 50, or 100 years from now using models, theory, and some good guesses?!? Just let that sink in a moment......

Yet trying to change the mind of brainwashed people is an impossible task. I constantly say, where is the proof? You know cause and effect, yet the real proof never shows itself. If we have a warm summer it is called Global Warming. But if the next summer is not so warm and the winter is cold, oh, well that is now Climate Change. The ole, wash, rinse, and repeat cycle and the folks doing it think we are too stupid to notice the difference. There is political doctrine that backs up this behavior. One of their beliefs says that if you repeat a lie often enough, it will become the truth, and those spreading it will also believe it!

I will believe the armageddonist hysterical pronouncements when I can see some verifiable evidence. Stop telling me about the polar ice cap melt because you know I can't go there every year and see for myself. Decades ago we were told when that polar melt happens, Manhattan would be flooded along with the Atlantic and Pacific coast. News flash, that STILL has not happened and they have claimed nearly half is now gone!! So where did all the water go?!? And that is the core of my issue with this movement, the goal posts on it move faster than Covid pronouncements. We can all see were following that "science" has gotten us.....

Right now, all I see is people getting filthy rich on the entire thing. Al Gore wanted to get rich by owning the Carbon Exchange (look it up). What a sham enterprise that was. The plan would allow people to buy and sell.......basically AN IDEA called Carbon Credits and Al and his pals would profit from the transactions in either direction. There was no product, no warehouse, no shipping and receiving, no stores or sales team, just pure profit and it ultimately would not change a damn thing. Even the mafia Don's thought that was the most creative scam they had ever heard of. And the ultimate joke is, the government would endorse the whole thing and there would be no change in net carbon emissions, just a new source of cash connected to that crooked enterprise. Seriously?!?
 
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Pr356

Member
Member
*Because I can't get a reliable forecast with up to the minute data for the weather TOMORROW, but these same folks claim they can accurately predict the weather 10, 20, 50, or 100 years from now using models, theory, and some good guesses?!? Just let that sink in a moment......

Yet trying to change the mind of brainwashed people is an impossible task. *

Yep, I agree! 💯
 
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