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Installing 2007 model year ZX14 Exhaust Camshaft in my just purchased 2014 Concours 14

Hello Sean, Your certainly making me disclose all my secrets ;)Had to dig up my notes! this is everything you need to convert over to a ZX Billet cluch basket and high volum oil pump,
The ZX 14 uses a 35 tooth pump drive gear appears cast , ZG motor uses a 32 tooth

GEAR-COMP,& shaft OIL COMP
ZX14 13216-0030 35 tooth-Requires shaft only
Robinson Forged heat treated Gear- 32 tooth -USE
ZG14 13216-0024 32 tooth - Your going to need the ZX oil pump drive shaft Shaft-eBay less then $30

Oil pump that mates to clutch basket GEAR,34T
ZX14 16085-0079- USE

Oil pump gear that mates to clutch basket GEAR,37T
ZG14 16085-0103
ZG14 16085-0138 Supersedes above

ROTOR-PUMP
ZX14 16154-0047
ZG14 16154-0047

Basket-CLUTCH
06 to 07 ZX14 13095-0068- OEM Hard Coat Anodized

08 to 11 ZX 14 13095-0088​

MTC billet basket welded Riv and steel back plate -USE
 
I haven't been following this completely.
& I haven't been inside the cases, so I admit that I don't know exactly where the starer gear engages with the clutch.
But I have a question.
If you change the clutch basket. (That has a different # of teeth on the outer gear)
Doesn't this make it necessary to also change the starter gear?

What you're doing is amazing and I completely respect your efforts.
Not saying to stop. Very interesting.

But, I'll be the one to say why?
ie; This discussion started out as changing an Exhaust Cam.
It's growing in complexity and cost "a lot".
I'm guessing. (prolly over $1500 in used parts)
Also guessing a special Flash will be needed.
All of this seems a lot to gain a few HP and maybe loose some torque.

But, wouldn't it be easier to buy a C-14?

Ride safe, Ted

PS: Yes, I know I'm the one that is always talking about mods/changes.
I really like to hear about what people are able to do.
 
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What you're doing is amazing and I completely respect your efforts.
Not saying to stop. Very interesting.

But, I'll be the one to say why?
ie; This discussion started out as changing an Exhaust Cam.
It's growing in complexity and cost "a lot".
I'm guessing. (prolly over $1500 in used parts and machining costs)
Also guessing a special Flash will be needed.
All of this seems a lot to gain a few HP and maybe loose some torque.

Wouldn't it be easier to buy a C-14?

That sed;

I haven't been following this completely.
& I haven't been inside the cases, so I admit that I don't know exactly where the starer gear engages with the clutch.
But I have a question.
If you change the clutch basket. (That has a different # of teeth on the outer gear)
Doesn't this make it necessary to also change the starter gear?

Ride safe, Ted
Hi Ted,

Out of pocket was about that price just for the clutch parts, Special flash? Naaa not so much we're talking Exhaust cam and the ZX14 throttle bodies share the same Injectors with the Concours 14.

Same starter motor as the ZX some one-way clutch and gears same ring gear on the clutch basket your Connie and the ZX share more parts than you will ever know.

I haven't lost any torque but moved it up the RPM scale and it continues to build power past ten thousand rpm, Major benefit of the 44 MM throttle bodies and the engine being able to breathe!

Really surprised at Kawasaki that they left the rubber Intake manifolds and ports the same size as the ZX, not claiming to be an engineer but flowed enough heads and Intakes to know that going from narrow to large disrupts any gains with pressure drops. we call it turbulent flow induced by severe property changes.

Disagree about small gains since a stock Connie using the SAE scale Dynos at the rear wheel at about honest 136HP & 89 to 90 FPT and with fixing the OEM AFR and leaving the restrictions my bike Dynoed at 154HP & 95 FTP that's 18 horsepower and five foot-pounds right in the mid-range.

A very Talented tuner who really knows the VVT system stepped up and offered to tune the bike I would say the last time we spoke he let me know progress was in the high 170 range and 114 FPT!

Could have bought a ZX, Yes I did, and in the process of bolting the rear subframe from my old Concours so that I can use the Connies hard luggage just cause I want to see if the Bags stay on at 200 MPH
 
If I'm not mistaken and if it matters to anybody, I do believe that a 14r clutch basket will fit a C14. This would allow a stock zx oil pump gear to be used. I know for a fact the ring gear meshes with the crank. Near as I can tell without having the 14r basket in hand is they had to take a cut around the outside of the basket for clearance for the rod cap bolts on the long stroke 14r. Oddly enough is that the older zx14 (pre 2012) had a completely different clutch. They actually used the C14 clutch in the 14r. You can buy a used 14r basket for under 100 if you want to verify.
 
Cam comments; in a previous post I commented about 52 degrees of cam timing. That was 35 year old info that stuck in my brain. I recently was browsing through my 08 C14 service manual and noticed that kawasaki agrees! 52 degrees BBDC for exhaust opening and 75 degrees ABDC for intake closing. 75? Yep, 75 minus 24 degrees of vvt advance is 51.
 
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Hello Ted, Laker and Jeff aka, the magician...This thread is very informative and exciting at the same time. Thanks to all of you. Ok, of course I have more questions. Regarding the upgrade to a ZX-14 clutch basket/ring gear, I believe you can purchase the ring gear and upgrade the ZG basket. Is this correct ? Once this accomplished, you can then install the gear from Robinsons. The gear increase volume and pressure, two for one ! I have gears in my Gen 1 and Gen 2 ZX-14's. My tech builds LSR motors and this is what he uses. In regards to the larger throttle bodies, I would love to see a before and after with just these. In my future ZG upgrade to the exhaust cam, I will stick with the stock TB because the flys are already removed for maximum flow. I will do a before and after dyno pull when I take on the project. Don't have a time frame thou. My bike dynoed at 165 hp several years ago. I would like to see 175 after the cam install and tune. This would be a 40 hp jump from bone stock ! Not bad I say...To be continued
 
Laker, I have several questions regarding your H bracket upgrade. Just came off a couple hour ride on the Connie. I was taking a close look at the rear swing-arm pivot points :

1) Would simply upgrading the main pivot point bushings with your bushings reduce 50 % of the flex going on ?
2) Do you experience any excessive vibration issues after installing your billet H bracket ?
3) "I wish I would have added more gusseting." You are referring to the top of the H bracket, correct ?
4) I experienced swing arm flexion with a 2002 Harley bagger. They made a delrin bushing to reduce the flex if I recall. Made a difference once installed !
5) Do you replace just one bushing as noted in the photo ?
6) Did you do a Timkin bearing upgrade at the steering head ?

Thank you,

Sean
 
Hi Ted,

Out of pocket was about that price just for the clutch parts, Special flash? Naaa not so much we're talking Exhaust cam and the ZX14 throttle bodies share the same Injectors with the Concours 14.

Same starter motor as the ZX some one-way clutch and gears same ring gear on the clutch basket your Connie and the ZX share more parts than you will ever know.

I haven't lost any torque but moved it up the RPM scale and it continues to build power past ten thousand rpm, Major benefit of the 44 MM throttle bodies and the engine being able to breathe!

Really surprised at Kawasaki that they left the rubber Intake manifolds and ports the same size as the ZX, not claiming to be an engineer but flowed enough heads and Intakes to know that going from narrow to large disrupts any gains with pressure drops. we call it turbulent flow induced by severe property changes.

Disagree about small gains since a stock Connie using the SAE scale Dynos at the rear wheel at about honest 136HP & 89 to 90 FPT and with fixing the OEM AFR and leaving the restrictions my bike Dynoed at 154HP & 95 FTP that's 18 horsepower and five foot-pounds right in the mid-range.

A very Talented tuner who really knows the VVT system stepped up and offered to tune the bike I would say the last time we spoke he let me know progress was in the high 170 range and 114 FPT!

Could have bought a ZX, Yes I did, and in the process of bolting the rear subframe from my old Concours so that I can use the Connies hard luggage just cause I want to see if the Bags stay on at 200 MPH
Thanx Jeff. I agree with you on all but 1 thing. (the need for a special flash/tune)
(If I understand right) You sed a Talented Tuner was able to go from 154 HP & 95 FTP to 170 HP & 114 FPT with his special tune.
So, after the Throttle body/Cam install, you had "approx." the same numbers that are currently possible with a header/flash.
& His tune increased those numbers by 16 hp/ 19 FPT.

I've got to say; The Throttle body/cam/etc and Tune are very impressive! Saaaaa-lute!!
But, doing the throttle bodies/cam/etc without his special tune/flash didn't seem to accomplish a lot.

Ride safe, Ted
 
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Thanx Jeff. I agree with you on all but 1 thing. (the need for a special flash/tune)
(If I understand right) You sed a Talented Tuner was able to go from 154 HP & 95 FTP to 170 HP & 114 FPT with his special tune.
So, after the Throttle body/Cam install, you had "approx." the same numbers that are currently possible with a header/flash.
& His tune increased those numbers by 16 hp/ 19 FPT.

I've got to say; The Throttle body/cam/etc and Tune are very impressive! Saaaaa-lute!!
But, doing the throttle bodies/cam/etc without his special tune/flash didn't seem to accomplish a lot.

Ride safe, Ted
You know I think what people feel when they get a flash is the restrictions being removed making the most peak power. In my previous post from last week, nothing changed except the IAP / TPS / RPM Limit when I did my first peak HP of the cam install test after the base run.
No Ignition timing adjustments, Secondary throttle plate, Decell fuel cut, and top speed.

last week I watched the Concours close the STPs to 27 percent at 9800 RPM and the power and rpm started dropping off, Imagine holding your model T wide open and then placing your hand over the carb throat but exposing maybe one finger.

But I do understand where your coming from! What I was trying to show is what the bike makes before being flashed with all restrictions removed.
 
I follow you. Start at/show lowest stage and build up.

We've all seen people install parts that are not properly paired and getting less than what they wanted.
Wondering how your Throttle body/cam would work with Flashes that are currently available.
ie; I do wish you had a run with one of the current tunes installed prior to getting your special.
(So that we could see how the cam would do with bike that has a current Flash).

(In my case, I have headers and a current flash. (Doesn't matter which one)
It runs "well", but the bike is probably not at its optimum as I didn't go to the next phase of a special tune.

Your build is showing what happens when you go to that next phase.

Ride safe, Ted

PS: I know there's more peak HP available with different headers or more parts changing.
But, the purpose is not just peak HP, it's how the engine does thru the RPM range.
(I know your building something that works to haul the wife with you)
 
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My Buddy told me last night to pick up the Concours at his shop and ride it around, So we drove upstate in the morning and after picking it up and getting home I changed the oil and filter and removed the Akrapovic, and installed the stock muffler.. Why are your asking cause with the two DB killers in he determined it was down between five to seven horsepower compared to having them out and the stock muffler being down a few more due to the outlet size?

Riding it home for 2 1/2 hours with no DBs drove me insane with the noise and the drone so I tried it with the DB killers and it sounded like a Vespa and felt stuffed up. Without the DB, it revs up more free but it's loud like a Squid riding a GSXR 600 and I would rather give up some peak power than own and ride another loud bike.

let me give you my feedback on the ride back home

It was already kind of a quick bike but you could feel the engine working and producing heat and vibrating at cruise
Now it's much smoother and passing power is pretty amazing I was on a 55MPH limit two-lane back road alongside a lake and there was a line of eight or nine cars going 35 MPH with the Lead car following a tourist on a rented moped. As soon as it was safe to pass I downshifted into fourth and twisted it wide open! Flew past everyone like a smooth electric motor kicked in and was a tad over 130 MPH going past the lead car and moped, The pulling power with my 175-pound body on a seven hundred-pound motorcycle was impressive.

Below 5000 rpm I do notice a very slight loss of torq but gained a motor that spins up really quick when you twist the throttle compared to what seemed like a lazy big motor prior with a lazy pull until after 5000 rpm then it just abruptly took off.

Shutting off the traction control produces lots of tire spin and tire smoke whacking open the throttle from a 10 to 20 mph roll, Second gear it wheelies and then floats the front tire into third, Kind of useless on a Touring bike but it's a Touring bike that is now a Sleeper that I think will surprise some people, But still will never ever beat any de-restricted Liter sport bike ZX14 or Busa with a good rider that is a pie in the sky dream and that was never my intention.

Think about what I have now could be a very low 10-second 1/4 mile 700-pound bullet-proof touring bike that can play with my buddies on there 10 second Street glides and if you are not aware of the abundance of very fast Baggers then do some research cause that Milwaukee-Eight changed the game when the aftermarket and drag racers started playing with them

Ohh and i really like the MRI windshield, Its sporty and short but the science is amazing
 

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Hello Jeff. I want to say good job Bud. You did all the R/D and hard work doing the TB and cam upgrade. Just want to confirm your final dyno pull. Ted stated 170 hp at 114 Tq, non ram-air. Is this correct ? This is pretty close to my pull at 164 hp several years ago. Is the 170 hp with the race Akra ? Just a bit confused with the Akra ver db inserts ver stock modified muffler. I am very interested in this cam upgrade. I feel it would bring the motor out in the right areas. The TB upgrade, no. Not looking for a ZX-14, I have 2 already. In regards to Harley riders on the street, not 70 thousand dollar drag bikes, I put them in the dust already. Had several 117, 124 and 131 baggers take me on the street, no contest Jeff. I even give them the holeshot and I still lay waste to them. Just my experience. I will inform you when a street bagger takes me out Jeff...lol...To be continued...
 
Hello Jeff. I want to say good job Bud. You did all the R/D and hard work doing the TB and cam upgrade. Just want to confirm your final dyno pull. Ted stated 170 hp at 114 Tq, non ram-air. Is this correct ? This is pretty close to my pull at 164 hp several years ago. Is the 170 hp with the race Akra ? Just a bit confused with the Akra ver db inserts ver stock modified muffler. I am very interested in this cam upgrade. I feel it would bring the motor out in the right areas. The TB upgrade, no. Not looking for a ZX-14, I have 2 already. In regards to Harley riders on the street, not 70 thousand dollar drag bikes, I put them in the dust already. Had several 117, 124 and 131 baggers take me on the street, no contest Jeff. I even give them the holeshot and I still lay waste to them. Just my experience. I will inform you when a street bagger takes me out Jeff...lol...To be continued...
From the other day-----A very Talented tuner who really knows the VVT system stepped up and offered to tune the bike I would say the last time we spoke he let me know progress was in the high 170 range and 114 FPT!

The final Numbers on his dyno using the SAE correction scale were 178 / 114 and that is without using 150 mph fans force-feeding the Ram Induction and using the Akra with no DB killers! Pretty healthy and I accomplished what I thought was holding this bike back but then again OEM is built for the masses.

Not taking 117, 124, or even the 131, talking built street bikes, not the typical Harley dude that used his tax refund and purchased the 131 and hosted a keg party to get his buddies to help him, Bring your rides down south Sean lets see if you can waste some of the street ridden Baggers here.

I run a Harley drag bike Sean and that's what kinda started this whole crazy trip of building a Japanese bagger to screw with my boys talking shit one day in the pits eating barbeque under the tent. My words went something like I need a bagger to drive the ole lady up to the Mountains for the weekends and smoke all your fat asses during Thursday TNT.

The guys that I hang with all Race V-twin type drag motorcycles and ride very built street bikes, I Race two V rods a mild Destroyer that runs mid nines and fully built low eight-second V-rod actually ran high sevens during testing back in 21 when we upped the nitrous and tried a new clutch set up and being sworn to Harleys V rods my street V rod cant get out of the low elevens naturally asperated so I think you can see where the shit talk started and kicked off my first Concours project that leads to this more streatable cause those are the rules we set and how I corrupted this nice Concours club LOL
here is my time slip from that freaky nitrous run and here is a small snippet of the new clutch setup.
The Drag racing lifestyle is not new to me Sean and thanks you for the kind words but for me, this project is over, and time for me to move on back to getting the supercharger on my Street V rod wishing you lots of luck with yours and if i can help you with advice or part numbers just reach out!!
 

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I follow you. Start at lowest stage and build up.

We've all seen people install parts that are not properly paired and getting less than what they wanted.
Wondering how your Throttle body/cam would work with Flashes that are currently available.
ie; I do wish you had a run with one of the current tunes installed prior to getting your special.
(So that we could see how the cam would do with bike that has a current Flash).

(In my case, I have headers and a current flash. (Doesn't matter which one)
It runs "well", but the bike is probably not at its optimum as I didn't go to the next phase of a special tune.

Your build is showing what happens when you go to that next phase.

Ride safe, Ted

PS: I know there's more peak HP available with different headers or more parts changing.
But, the purpose is not just peak HP, it's how the engine does thru the RPM range.
(I know your building something that works to haul the wife with you)
 
I can't say Ted 100 percent it is a Special Flash. More like just tuned for every bit of power with no restrictions and the fueling really fine-tuned. Something like the Area P VVT files meet the Black widow IAP / TPS files Mid 180s is not out of the question using the Akra ZX14R Header and Duals or maybe even the Area P but I really built this to carry the ole lady and screw with my Friends and not cause tinnitus to my wife so it is good enough in its present state. Thanks for the support through this and the Advice both from you and David! And I gotta say your advice on the MRI sport windshield was dead nuts accurate it looks sexy down and fully up it's quiet and comfortable, Amazing that people throw barn doors on a Concours and never give this shield a try, Look how good that windshield follows the sporty lines of the bike
 

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Thank you Jeff. 7.8 is running Bud !...Not in the drag race world Jeff. I ride in the street and when I encounter Harley riders, it's just a matter of time and the the hammer drops.. Have not been outrun yet......I know one day I will encounter a 70 thousand dollar race Harley and I will be chasing the dragon. I certainly don't want to encounter you with your V-Rod...lol. The "ol" Connie is a ninja sleeper. Many a brave soul have experienced that. Have some great Harley (Hardley) stories...178 at 114 is a very impressive run Jeff. You probably would have done 180 plus with a Area/P header setup. I believe I have a shot at 175 then. Can't say I will get to this project this year thou. I will purchase the cam and then send it out. Anyone specific I need to speak with at WEB regarding the modification to the exhaust cam ? Quick question regarding the oil pump gear on the clutch basket: Can I just purchase the gear and install it on my ZG basket, or is it simply easier to purchase the ZX14R clutch basket and run the high volume gear ?...To be continued.

Sean
 
Cheering for ya brother your gonna build a badass sleeper Fat Ninja!
can't see why you can't remove the backing plate and gears of the ZX and Re-rivet to the Concours Basket I just went the way I did cause I wanted an MTC billet basket so if and when I throw a Shinko on the back strap the fat girl down in the front during a Test N Tune night during my passes I was worried about blowing up the cast basket, I know you know what I,m talking about.

You don't have to use Web Cams I just used them cause we have a relationship with them and my Normal machinist retired and his Son gave me a bunch of ******** on how he can't cut the groove cause the shaft is thinner on the ZX cam then the ZG cam and the camshaft I bought had the journals hard chromed.
Long story short but after I got my thoughts together I realized the kid was never going to be his father and reached out to our friends in the Jap bike cam world who offered to Ultra sonic I think? just to be sure to lay that story and call BS and they offered Drill and cut. Really sure David ( Laker ) will do it from speaking with him he is a sharp Machinist and Craftsman and wish he lived closer to me. Even Ted has a Lath! But if you Do Reach out to Web the sweet wife will pick up and just tell her you to need the ZX cam machined like the ZG for no more than $50.00

My Drag V rod Sean is 1640 CC with pistons the size of those chocks full of nuts round metal coffee cans with a very short stroke and a Rotrex supercharger pushing 8 Bar or 13 pounds of boost and held together by some very large ARP studs and lower end girdles and a whole lot of laughing gas so it is not a street bike, Although it's insured and registerd and wears plate (El jefe) I do that more just to shut people up when they say it's not street legal
 
Going back to your "feedback on the ride back home".
After you installed your "modified" OEM muffler, how much do you think the performance was affected?
I'm guessing somewhere between the "Akra with" DP killers and the "Akra without" DP killers?

For clarification, Not all realize that (because of your choice to use the Black Widow Header) you gave up some possible peak HP to keep more mid power.
So, you say that there are more HP increases possible? (With your changes and a tune to match a different header).

If I understand right: If a person did the Cam/Throttle Bodies, and used Area P headers with a (currently available) Full Area P Flash, you feel that they would be reasonably close to the 170/175 that Sean mentioned?

What I want to see next; Is a ride report with the Wife on the back, and her post ride impressions. o_O <evil grin>

Ride safe, Ted

PS: I really like the MRA Vario too.
 
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Sean,
I used 2006-2007 Camshaft # 49118-0071 it's advanced a little more for low-end and its the Pre_cat timing

The 2008 - 2011 Camshaft # 49118-0125 has some retard built-in to clean up the cruise Emissions and push the power band up by 200RPM both have the same lift and duration. so pick your poison!

Buddy was telling me 2012 and up were softer in timing but used a longer stroke to make up the low end.
 
Going back to your "feedback on the ride back home".
After you installed your modified OEM muffler, how much do you think the performance was affected?
I'm guessing somewhere between the Akra with and the Akra without DP killers?

Not all realize that you gave up some peak HP to keep more mid power with your choice of the Black Widow Header.

If I understand right: If a person did the Cam/Throttle Bodies, and used Area P headers with a full Area P Flash, you feel that they would be reasonably close to the 175 that Sean mentioned?

What I want to see next is a ride report with the Wife on the back, and her post ride impressions. o_O

Ride safe, Ted

PS: I really like the MRA Vario too.
Just edited this post cause I just saw the modified OEM muffler for some reason my first read I only seen OEM.

just so everyone knows last year I built a chambered muffler using the OEM case that was going to be used on my first Sleeper Concours Mexican Roll Racer. We tried it on the previous bike and it turned out super Loud with a Chamber 2 1-2 core and a 2 7/8 outlet for top-end only and it measured 116 Decibels not so good!

The OEM Muffler on my present bike has the middle deflector or baffle hole sawed out and prior to the camshaft change it barely changed the tone but now it sounds slightly more deep and bassy and I tested it with my phone at 3800 rpm it 90 decibels factory is 86.


Honestly Ted, the Akra with the DB killers installed and the stock muffler feels the same so it's down on peak power but feels stronger in the low and mid. compared to the Akra with no DB killers it's down maybe six or seven HP after 7500 RPM to redline.

My plan was to not use Area P cause chasing full top-end power was not my goal, really had my heart set on the 2006 Duals but after bolting on the header and then trying to get the mufflers mounted without over-stressing the header cause your pulling up on the pipes and crushing only half the side of the exhaust gaskets in the port and then your leaving the main right side mounting bolt out lead me to see the internet was full of POO POO it's not a direct bolt-on, Anyone who has done it without building custom mid-pipes will encounter major cylinder head issues into the future!

Still want the 4 -1-2 Duals and that will be a future project cause they just build a good spread of power from idle-up and sound so good This could be a whole other post LOL

So still wanting a wider spread of power we looked at a Tri-Y and must say it delivered the torq right around 6000RPM it was already 100-foot Pounds. I think if someone with an Area P Exhaust with fresh packing, Really good Cylinder pressure, Valves set correctly, and not lazy rushed I imagine Mid 180! This motor wants to breathe the VVT works using the stock cam and goes from Economy car to dragster what it lacked was Exhaust to build a great power package.

This weekend taking the Concours and Lili and heading towards the Smokeys so will let you know!

Going to speculate here but Kawasaki has always been known as the Japanese power builder they get the last word H1, H2 triples, KZ900, KZ1000, the ZX, and supercharged bikes.

Back in 2008 ultra-high horsepower Sport Touring bikes are not unheard of Just look at the BMW K1300 Shaft Drive 175HP or the Honda VFR 1200 Shaft Drive 175HP,

They were late to the game so really think they dialed the power back the cause of their Tetra Lever being a flop! and Laker hit the nail pointing out the skinny axle taking the brunt.

How to screw up all-around broad power
4 into 1- Yea yea people are going to say but my Area P makes power everywhere! No, it's more like Thank above for the invention of VVT masking your true loss of low-end, Cause without it the 4 into one is a Peak power builder only.
Tiny Head pipes- Build a low end- Engine that runs Hot
Small TB- Limit Top-end here is an experiment grab one of those tiny Coffee staws stick it in your mouth and breath through it going up some stairs.
very mild short duration low lift exhaust cam - Low RPM power- Engine runs hot

Working with the Japanese OEMs I find them to be a different culture they will never admit or improve a platform with the exception of minor and then it fades away

Everything above is my ten cents
 
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Interesting Jeff. Always enjoy your analysis. Are you an engineer by trade ? Regarding power under the curve and header design, Steve with Shoodaben Engineering, went into specific details and dyno pulls comparing headers for the Connie. The AreaP is king for top end power but does loose low end TQ in the process. The Black Widow does real well overall. My tech actually got almost the same gain with de-cating the stock header with mid pipe and performance muffler ! Header design and diameter play a large role in the VVT setup. I bought the AreaP long ago before anyone started looking at Connie header efficiency. Hopefully the exhaust cam will bring my AreaP out where it belongs. As your data points out, the Connie is a Ninja wanting to breath. Damm Jeff, you already made a 40+ hp increase over stock !! Thank you for the info on the cams. I think I will stick with your setup because the proof is in the numbers. You gonna run a light flywheel ? This is also part of my build-up. ZX10R flywheel with titanium components. My target Jeff is 175 (+) hp...

Sean
 
Jeff, I was referring to your original modified OEM.
But the one you're using sounds like a muffler that has had a baffelectomy.
ie; Go in thru the exit port of the muffler and drill the plate out.
We've been doing it to C-10's for years. Nice sound/ (not too loud)/ more mid torque, slightly more peak HP.
{{I did back-to-back dyno tests to confirm that}}

Jeff; (do you think) If a person had Full Area P with matching Flash and did the Throttle Body/cam, would it need a tune to get 175?
{{My guess is, no}}

Sean, do you have a Full Area P System or a Area P muffler/mid pipe?

Ride safe, Ted
 
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Jeff, I was referring to your original modified OEM.
But the one you're using sounds like a muffler that has had a baffelectomy.
ie; Go in thru the exit port of the muffler and drill the plate out.
We've been doing it to C-10's for years. Nice sound/ (not too loud)/ more mid torque, slightly more peak HP.

Jeff; (do you think) If a person had Full Area P with matching Flash and did the Throttle Body/cam, would it need a tune to get 175?
{{My guess is, no}}

Sean, do you have a Full Area P System or a Area P muffler/mid pipe?

Ride safe, Ted
 
no, he's guessing. the bike he has showed 133, and is likely a bit sick. The 162 came from a bike in Greece, and I don't think it was using one of our correction factors.

Comparing dyno numbers from two different dynos is pretty useless.

Murph
 
Kind of figured you were thinking the OEM modded one, that one was built for the first bike and ended up being too loud like there was no muffler on the bike.

I really like this baffelectomy the sound is deep and it burbles when you roll off the throttle!

If they already have a flash for the Area p and do the throttle body and cam as long as the engine is in good shape, valves are set properly RPM limit is raised I would bet it would surpass 175.
 
Interesting Jeff. Always enjoy your analysis. Are you an engineer by trade ? Regarding power under the curve and header design, Steve with Shoodaben Engineering, went into specific details and dyno pulls comparing headers for the Connie. The AreaP is king for top end power but does loose low end TQ in the process. The Black Widow does real well overall. My tech actually got almost the same gain with de-cating the stock header with mid pipe and performance muffler ! Header design and diameter play a large role in the VVT setup. I bought the AreaP long ago before anyone started looking at Connie header efficiency. Hopefully the exhaust cam will bring my AreaP out where it belongs. As your data points out, the Connie is a Ninja wanting to breath. Damm Jeff, you already made a 40+ hp increase over stock !! Thank you for the info on the cams. I think I will stick with your setup because the proof is in the numbers. You gonna run a light flywheel ? This is also part of my build-up. ZX10R flywheel with titanium components. My target Jeff is 175 (+) hp...

Sean
Definitely no Engineer! More like the King of shrapnel lol

Really think Sean cause of the Area P head pipe and overall it being a 4 into one with a smooth mid pipe and matching outlet your going to easily surpass my build in peak power.
 
Comparing dyno numbers from two different dynos is pretty useless.

Murph
Yes thatā€™s agreed! But not sure why Steve wrote that to Ted.

The one 130ish number was my baseline pull the other number was from a tuners forum and that was a final number on a pull that he had swapped an 08 ZX14 camshaft.
 
Thank you Jeff. It maybe some time before I dig into the Connie, like you, I have 3 other performance motorcycles. If I do reach my goal, it is because of your R/D and input. I ran the cam upgrade by my Tech and he was surprised with your numbers. Remember thou, he does not hotrod Connies. He does the Liter, Busa and Turbo bikes. I'm the hot-rodder. Years ago, I had several of the record dyno pulls for bolt on's in the shop. I try to do my homework and then test/tune. The new bikes make some serious power Jeff. My Tech has done a ZX10R with a slip-on, flash, sprint air cleaner making 205-210 hp to the wheel on pump gas ! In the process of purchasing the exhaust cam, then the ZX-14R clutch basket to convert to the Robinson gear. Promise to keep you in the loop....

Sean
 
Jeff, I was referring to your original modified OEM.
But the one you're using sounds like a muffler that has had a baffelectomy.
ie; Go in thru the exit port of the muffler and drill the plate out.
We've been doing it to C-10's for years. Nice sound/ (not too loud)/ more mid torque, slightly more peak HP.
{{I did back-to-back dyno tests to confirm that}}

Jeff; (do you think) If a person had Full Area P with matching Flash and did the Throttle Body/cam, would it need a tune to get 175?
{{My guess is, no}}

Sean, do you have a Full Area P System or a Area P muffler/mid pipe?

Ride safe, Ted
Full system, PC-5, K&N, Flys removed, flash/woolich, T-6 Rotella 5w/40....
 
very mild short duration low lift exhaust cam - Low RPM power- Engine runs hot
This is very interesting and contrary to what I've believed for 35 years when the roundy- round guys told me that the exhaust cam was almost meaningless. Their claim was that the rapidly expanding spent charge didn't need any help leaving the cylinder. As long as it had away out, it would leave.

But with everything you've written, and from what I've read and heard from SISF and many owners of his ex cam, I think I'll send the zx cam to Web and give it a try. I could do it myself but I'd have to buy some proper groove tooling.
 
Ok, back to the grooving. I understand what cutting the groove does.
{Ensures Oil for VVT}.
But (with the groove) unsure why you would also need cross drilling?
Would think the groove would do all that is needed.

Reason for not wanting to cross drill.
Grooving (reducing cross section) weakens the cam.
Grooving and (also) cross drilling would weaken it "considerably more" than just grooving.

Ride safe, Ted
 
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Ok, back to the grooving. I understand what cutting the groove does.
{Ensures Oil for VVT}.
This is not correct. Read my post 36.
There are 4 external pipes under the valve cover. The 2 with the long standpipes come from the vvt solenoid and operate the vvt actuator. the other 2 are explained in post 36. And in the service manual! Hint: all those cross drilled holes are ports.
 
Hmmm. I think your question is about the grooves? The groove on the cam between the #4 lobes feeds the 4 cross-drilled holes into the center or the cam. That oil flows over to the next journal to the left, through the center of the cam, (effectively a pipe) and escapes through those 4 cross-drilled holes into a groove that exists in the journal and cap. Then into the external pipe and over to the intake cam. The grooves act as chambers for the to oil pass through freely. Imagine that if you pressurized the oil system without the motor running the oil would flow as stated. Without the grooves oil flow is restricted and only lubricates the journal. Hope this helps. If I'm wrong about what your question is then maybe I'm confused?
 
My Buddy told me last night to pick up the Concours at his shop and ride it around, So we drove upstate in the morning and after picking it up and getting home I changed the oil and filter and removed the Akrapovic, and installed the stock muffler.. Why are your asking cause with the two DB killers in he determined it was down between five to seven horsepower compared to having them out and the stock muffler being down a few more due to the outlet size?

Riding it home for 2 1/2 hours with no DBs drove me insane with the noise and the drone so I tried it with the DB killers and it sounded like a Vespa and felt stuffed up. Without the DB, it revs up more free but it's loud like a Squid riding a GSXR 600 and I would rather give up some peak power than own and ride another loud bike.

let me give you my feedback on the ride back home

It was already kind of a quick bike but you could feel the engine working and producing heat and vibrating at cruise
Now it's much smoother and passing power is pretty amazing I was on a 55MPH limit two-lane back road alongside a lake and there was a line of eight or nine cars going 35 MPH with the Lead car following a tourist on a rented moped. As soon as it was safe to pass I downshifted into fourth and twisted it wide open! Flew past everyone like a smooth electric motor kicked in and was a tad over 130 MPH going past the lead car and moped, The pulling power with my 175-pound body on a seven hundred-pound motorcycle was impressive.

Below 5000 rpm I do notice a very slight loss of torq but gained a motor that spins up really quick when you twist the throttle compared to what seemed like a lazy big motor prior with a lazy pull until after 5000 rpm then it just abruptly took off.

Shutting off the traction control produces lots of tire spin and tire smoke whacking open the throttle from a 10 to 20 mph roll, Second gear it wheelies and then floats the front tire into third, Kind of useless on a Touring bike but it's a Touring bike that is now a Sleeper that I think will surprise some people, But still will never ever beat any de-restricted Liter sport bike ZX14 or Busa with a good rider that is a pie in the sky dream and that was never my intention.

Think about what I have now could be a very low 10-second 1/4 mile 700-pound bullet-proof touring bike that can play with my buddies on there 10 second Street glides and if you are not aware of the abundance of very fast Baggers then do some research cause that Milwaukee-Eight changed the game when the aftermarket and drag racers started playing with them

Ohh and i really like the MRI windshield, Its sporty and short but the science is amazing

Wow, this thread is about as hardcore tuner as it gets. I'm limited to doing my own basic maintenance in the garage. No tool shop or lift at my house. Wife would wring my neck. So reading this I feel a bit like a kid in a candy shop.

Was interested in your mention about the sweet, sweet sound of the motor while at cruising altitude. Not sure how you ride, but I don't usually set auto-pilot cruise control and then sit back for a cup of tea. LOL Over here in Houston the traffic and crazy cagers would run me down. I'd be like a love bug on someone's monster truck booger bar. One of my safety measures is to drive in a more "sporty" fashion, making sure I'm not the one being hunted. I'm not crazy, but I'm not casual either.

Which brings me to the exhaust note discussion. When I first selected the C14 (after nearly 20 yrs without owning one) I really liked the idea of having a sleeper that runs like hell... well, until I noticed that by being stealthy I was amplifying my risks exponentially. Too many people on their phones, texting or vlogging or whatever the heck they're doing on Facebook, etc. Got cut off and squeezed up against the median barriers a few too many times for my liking. So, I decided to try announcing my presence by installing a BW (Black Widow) slipon. With the baffle removed, not only does the motor breath better (as has been noted here, she likes to breath freely) but it growls pretty good up around 5K+ and just gets louder from there. Suddenly my issues with people missing my presence decreased. When I installed the upgraded LED lighting up front the issue with awareness dropped even more.

Can't say enough about wearing ear protection of some kind. Not sure how the V-twin crowd rides with straight pipes and doesn't have issues, because I personally find that sitting on top of any machine out in the wind will make my tinnitus go berserk. So I wear Shure 215's so I can hear alerts and warnings while still having the passive noise reduction. The wind at 80+ mph is super loud. My personal preference is to hear the sound of the machine I'm on, not the howling wind. And with this size motor, I'm really certain that nobody would mistake our 1.352 liter bike for a 400cc or 600cc wind-up track toy.

As for all the tear-down and retrofitting of ZX parts to beef this up even more, I'd really love to have a stable of machines to choose from while the ZG is going through surgery. Where I am right now, this is my only toy so having it out of commission for an extended time would be super disruptive to my wind therapy (not to mention mightily expensive). LOL

After getting Steve's MRP flash and installing the slipon I've been more than happy with the performance. My biggest challenge has been trying to make my tires last more than 5k miles. I somehow go through a set about every 5-6 months, and I'm not even trying that hard. Getting the suspension setup right was a big a-ha moment after hooking up with Dave Moss. The machine now feels more planted and secure in literally every corner no matter how fast my entry speed. I've come close to peeing myself a little a couple times, but the bike was solid all the way. The Road III's stick pretty good, even when I'm power sliding both ends. Traction control has been a bit of a bugger to get used to, but it has saved me in the rain.

And yeah, totally agree that any ZX10 or S1000RR is gonna smoke me so I don't even try. I've got no illusions of being the biggest beast on the street. After all, I'm not riding a pedigreed thoroughbred but a semi-farkled shaft drive half-ton half-breed sports sofa that's made for long journeys not quick trips down quarter mile drag strips. LOL

Long story short, thanks for all the incredible information and for sharing what you're concocting in your alchemy lab over there. :^ ) Cheers, AB
 

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Hmmm. I think your question is about the grooves? The groove on the cam between the #4 lobes feeds the 4 cross-drilled holes into the center or the cam. That oil flows over to the next journal to the left, through the center of the cam, (effectively a pipe) and escapes through those 4 cross-drilled holes into a groove that exists in the journal and cap. Then into the external pipe and over to the intake cam. The grooves act as chambers for the to oil pass through freely. Imagine that if you pressurized the oil system without the motor running the oil would flow as stated. Without the grooves oil flow is restricted and only lubricates the journal. Hope this helps. If I'm wrong about what your question is then maybe I'm confused?
My question was about the holes, not the groove.
Was questioning why the holes were needed if you machined a groove.
(My thought is; The holes weaken the walls of the cam shaft more than just the groove)

I didn't realize that the cams had passages thru the center.
You're saying that the oil passes thru a hole thru the center of the Cam, from lobe to lobe.
And, the cross drilled holes are needed {at the journal between the #4 lobes) to transfer the oil to/from that passageway?

Ride safe, Ted
 
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Yes,yes and yes. And the cross drilled holes are needed at #3 as well as 4. If you look closely at the photo you referenced, (the cam on the right is the concours), you can see from the wear pattern on the journal, that there is groove in the head and cap in-line with the cross-drilled holes.

The cams are hollow, gun drilled out to a wall thickness of about .140". With a freeze plug in the end to trap the oil inside, so it will pressurize.


Jeff:
I was going to point out to Jeff that the wall thickness' are the same of both zx and zg, but I was already questioning his information too much at the time wrong. I just checked and it's about. 035 thicker at the 2 journals with the 4 holes. The rest of the center hole is the same as the zx.

Also an Ultrasonic tester is used to check wall thickness of a tube when you can't measure it otherwise.
Those Ultrasonic testers are typically used by sanctioning bodies to verify that tubular frames aren't made with .02thin tubing. Im sure they're better now days.
 
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Wow, this thread is about as hardcore tuner as it gets. I'm limited to doing my own basic maintenance in the garage. No tool shop or lift at my house. Wife would wring my neck. So reading this I feel a bit like a kid in a candy shop.

Was interested in your mention about the sweet, sweet sound of the motor while at cruising altitude. Not sure how you ride, but I don't usually set auto-pilot cruise control and then sit back for a cup of tea. LOL Over here in Houston the traffic and crazy cagers would run me down. I'd be like a love bug on someone's monster truck booger bar. One of my safety measures is to drive in a more "sporty" fashion, making sure I'm not the one being hunted. I'm not crazy, but I'm not casual either.

Which brings me to the exhaust note discussion. When I first selected the C14 (after nearly 20 yrs without owning one) I really liked the idea of having a sleeper that runs like hell... well, until I noticed that by being stealthy I was amplifying my risks exponentially. Too many people on their phones, texting or vlogging or whatever the heck they're doing on Facebook, etc. Got cut off and squeezed up against the median barriers a few too many times for my liking. So, I decided to try announcing my presence by installing a BW (Black Widow) slipon. With the baffle removed, not only does the motor breath better (as has been noted here, she likes to breath freely) but it growls pretty good up around 5K+ and just gets louder from there. Suddenly my issues with people missing my presence decreased. When I installed the upgraded LED lighting up front the issue with awareness dropped even more.

Can't say enough about wearing ear protection of some kind. Not sure how the V-twin crowd rides with straight pipes and doesn't have issues, because I personally find that sitting on top of any machine out in the wind will make my tinnitus go berserk. So I wear Shure 215's so I can hear alerts and warnings while still having the passive noise reduction. The wind at 80+ mph is super loud. My personal preference is to hear the sound of the machine I'm on, not the howling wind. And with this size motor, I'm really certain that nobody would mistake our 1.352 liter bike for a 400cc or 600cc wind-up track toy.

As for all the tear-down and retrofitting of ZX parts to beef this up even more, I'd really love to have a stable of machines to choose from while the ZG is going through surgery. Where I am right now, this is my only toy so having it out of commission for an extended time would be super disruptive to my wind therapy (not to mention mightily expensive). LOL

After getting Steve's MRP flash and installing the slipon I've been more than happy with the performance. My biggest challenge has been trying to make my tires last more than 5k miles. I somehow go through a set about every 5-6 months, and I'm not even trying that hard. Getting the suspension setup right was a big a-ha moment after hooking up with Dave Moss. The machine now feels more planted and secure in literally every corner no matter how fast my entry speed. I've come close to peeing myself a little a couple times, but the bike was solid all the way. The Road III's stick pretty good, even when I'm power sliding both ends. Traction control has been a bit of a bugger to get used to, but it has saved me in the rain.

And yeah, totally agree that any ZX10 or S1000RR is gonna smoke me so I don't even try. I've got no illusions of being the biggest beast on the street. After all, I'm not riding a pedigreed thoroughbred but a semi-farkled shaft drive half-ton half-breed sports sofa that's made for long journeys not quick trips down quarter mile drag strips. LOL

Long story short, thanks for all the incredible information and for sharing what you're concocting in your alchemy lab over there. :^ ) Cheers, AB
Wish you the best Texas. Before you do the install, read the thread over. There is alot of technical data in it, to include part numbers. I am in the process of getting all the parts together. Once I get the cam, I will send it to Web performance. Doing the upgraded suspension is a night/day difference I am told. Maybe I will take that on after the performance upgrade. You should de-cat your system or go full. Good luck...

Sean
 
Sean,
I used 2006-2007 Camshaft # 49118-0071 it's advanced a little more for low-end and its the Pre_cat timing

The 2008 - 2011 Camshaft # 49118-0125 has some retard built-in to clean up the cruise Emissions and push the power band up by 200RPM both have the same lift and duration. so pick your poison!

Buddy was telling me 2012 and up were softer in timing but used a longer stroke to make up the low end.
Hello Jeff. Would like to discuss the ZX cam work with you. Drop me your e-mail...

Thank you,
Sean
 
Hello Jeff. Have the camshaft coming. Wanted to chat with you regarding the work needed per Web performance. I did call them and the women did not recall your work. Do you have an invoice # she could refer to ?

Sean
 
Hello Jeff. Have the camshaft coming. Wanted to chat with you regarding the work needed per Web performance. I did call them and the women did not recall your work. Do you have an invoice # she could refer to ?

Sean
Was away for a few days, You can always send me a PM!

No Invoice Sean is pretty sure in one of the previous posts #119 I wrote my shop has a relationship with them they grind the cams for the race bikes and some private label boxed camshafts!. No Invoice!! I should not have included a price of $50 cause it did not cost me anything and that was me speculating on what the cost should be, Sometimes I write way too fast.


I will PM you the Depth and how wide the oil groove needs to be later tonight
 
Yes,yes and yes. And the cross drilled holes are needed at #3 as well as 4. If you look closely at the photo you referenced, (the cam on the right is the concours), you can see from the wear pattern on the journal, that there is groove in the head and cap in-line with the cross-drilled holes.

The cams are hollow, gun drilled out to a wall thickness of about .140". With a freeze plug in the end to trap the oil inside, so it will pressurize.


Jeff:
I was going to point out to Jeff that the wall thickness' are the same of both zx and zg, but I was already questioning his information too much at the time wrong. I just checked and it's about. 035 thicker at the 2 journals with the 4 holes. The rest of the center hole is the same as the zx.

Also an Ultrasonic tester is used to check wall thickness of a tube when you can't measure it otherwise.
Those Ultrasonic testers are typically used by sanctioning bodies to verify that tubular frames aren't made with .02thin tubing. Im sure they're better now days.
Hey David, Thanks for the Information normally would not be so intricate just had to be sure.
We use to use Ultra Sonic to test block and Bore back when we were doing big bores. It's an awesome little tool to test the thickness of cylinder walls just start at the bottom of the bore and drag it up, we also use it for porting head ports, and decks thickness, and in the car world yep they check chassis tubing, roll cages, body panels, and windshields just about any serious race machine shop keep a few

For the past 12 years, we send the blocks out to Millennium Technologies if you ever need Re-plating they are the source they also have to save a lot of blown-up high-dollar blocks and cylinder heads for us, David!
 
Hello Sean, Your certainly making me disclose all my secrets ;)Had to dig up my notes! this is everything you need to convert over to a ZX Billet cluch basket and high volum oil pump,
The ZX 14 uses a 35 tooth pump drive gear appears cast , ZG motor uses a 32 tooth

GEAR-COMP,& shaft OIL COMP
ZX14 13216-0030 35 tooth-Requires shaft only
Robinson Forged heat treated Gear- 32 tooth -USE
ZG14 13216-0024 32 tooth - Your going to need the ZX oil pump drive shaft Shaft-eBay less then $30

Oil pump that mates to clutch basket GEAR,34T
ZX14 16085-0079- USE

Oil pump gear that mates to clutch basket GEAR,37T
ZG14 16085-0103
ZG14 16085-0138 Supersedes above

ROTOR-PUMP
ZX14 16154-0047
ZG14 16154-0047

Basket-CLUTCH
06 to 07 ZX14 13095-0068- OEM Hard Coat Anodized

08 to 11 ZX 14 13095-0088​

MTC billet basket welded Riv and steel back plate -USE
Jeff,

What's indicated by the "USE" descriptors here - are these parts in direct need of replacement for the conversion, or...?
 
Hello Jeff. Hope all is well. Sounds like you were drag racing...I have a 2006 ZX Exhaust cam coming. Good price ! Regarding exactly what needs to be done to the Camshaft, I will await your PM. Reviewed the previous threads and there are several discussions regarding oil grooves, cross drilling and ZX ver ZG wall thickness. Just want to follow your specs.

Thank you,
Sean
 
Yes,yes and yes. And the cross drilled holes are needed at #3 as well as 4. If you look closely at the photo you referenced, (the cam on the right is the concours), you can see from the wear pattern on the journal, that there is groove in the head and cap in-line with the cross-drilled holes.

The cams are hollow, gun drilled out to a wall thickness of about .140". With a freeze plug in the end to trap the oil inside, so it will pressurize.


Jeff:
I was going to point out to Jeff that the wall thickness' are the same of both zx and zg, but I was already questioning his information too much at the time wrong. I just checked and it's about. 035 thicker at the 2 journals with the 4 holes. The rest of the center hole is the same as the zx.

Also an Ultrasonic tester is used to check wall thickness of a tube when you can't measure it otherwise.
Those Ultrasonic testers are typically used by sanctioning bodies to verify that tubular frames aren't made with .02thin tubing. Im sure they're better now days.
Laker mentioned, that in the head there are oil grooves at Journals 3 and 4.
Look closely at this photo below. You can see the oil grooves.
Also note that the grooves seem to meet up with an oil passage at each side.

Ride safe, Ted
 
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I just looked and both the intake and exhaust cam journals, for cyls. 3 and 4 in both the head and caps are grooved. Basically, wherever there is an external pipe there is a groove. The intake cam itself is grooved at 3 and 4. The exhaust cam is grooved at 4 only. Ted was asking why groove the cams? and can you do without the groove in the cam? And I have no idea.

BUT possibly it has something to do with which way the oil is flowing. The 3 with grooves in the cam itself are receiving oil. The only one without a groove in the cam is expelling oil.
 
No sir! That's only if you are wanting to use a larger volume oiling system for sustained high RPM and a Billet basket
Really for 99.9 percent of the folks, the modifications performed would not benefit the COG type of riding but for the 1 percent
Cam, TB, Exhaust

Although I must say once the tach climbs past 6000 RPM you need to be ready for what comes next cause it's not the Concours Kawasaki built for the Masses
Super interesting conversation, I may be one of the .01%ā€¦ lol

Regarding RPM āž”ļø User / FSM manuals say nothing about limiting extended use in higher RPMs other than not to be in the red.

From a reliability / warranty standpoint I would have expected the engines to be designed to be able to run up to the redline without problems even on a semi-extended or frequent basis.

Completely realize this is not and will not ever be a ZX however if the machine cannot run within the white on the tach for extended periods then that to me a failure of engineering and would be a warranty risk for KAWI, havenā€™t heard of yet?

Have not had any problems yet with higher RPMs, Full AreaP, +50K miles, my day may be coming thoughā€¦ I do not bounce of the factory set rev-limit often, do run up to ~9,500 - 10,000 on tach often. Sustain in the 6,000 - 7,500 on occasion. With the AreaP love the high end of this thing where she can breath. Canā€™t complain about low end just love that dose of high end adrenaline.

Wayne, Carol & Blue
 
My 2012 will probably get this conversion at some point. Possibly next time I adjust the valves. It's been set up as a solo rig and I'd like to eliminate the big spinning VVT mass if possible.

What I don't want is a much louder platform. When running with a stock muffler (either '08-09 or '10-up), how does the horsepower and torque plot compare to a stock motor?
 
John, he didn't remove the intake cam and VVT.
In fact, he used the ZG intake and VVT to get the power curve he has.
ie; Low/mid range torque.
Changing to a ZX intake {with a ZG head} will take more thought on oiling etc.

My guess is; a stock muffler would cost 5 -7 peak HP.

Hopefully the expert can post more than my guess.

Ride safe, Ted

Looking back at previous posts; He posted;
Honestly Ted, the Akra with the DB killers installed and the stock muffler feels the same so it's down on peak power but feels stronger in the low and mid. compared to the Akra with no DB killers it's down maybe six or seven HP after 7500 RPM to redline.

NOTE: His stock muffler basically has a baffelectomy, so (I think) a stocker would cause a bit more loss..
 
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This combo could never hit it's potential with the black widow header. The only proper choice would have been the area P header. Choking all that airflow potential with the black widow header was basically criminal.

Steve
 
This combo could never hit it's potential with the black widow header. The only proper choice would have been the area P header. Choking all that airflow potential with the black widow header was basically criminal.

Steve
Look at that we agree on something LOL
Made some edits at 8 am today since it was late last night when I wrote this

I got on Terry's list last year for the Area P Header and muffler when I first started this project but after thinking about it and not really wanting a Four into one I canceled.
Went with the ZX14R Akrapovik Duel Race set-up, I just happen to have it left over from a previous project and I really like Akrapovic quality and the fact that duels can push more air and make less noise! the project pushed over into my race schedule and I never bent the pipes on the left and right side to fit correctly, But it did not stop us from testing it and it made the most Horsepower and Torq, Had said before the Dyno seemed a little happy with the numbers but I use it only as a tool and not the end all of the accurate numbers.


Using VP MR12 Race Gasoline
187.33 Horsepower at 9700......Could have made four or more horsepower but we felt the ram air was too small and holding the engine from peaking
78.00 Foot pounds at 4100........ this is the beauty of the VVT and the Akrapovic Tri Y
116.51 Foot pounds at 7500.......Awesome numbers for an old-school big Japanese four-cylinder.

Using VP MR12 Race Gasoline
Next was Brocks Performance 14R duel Alien Head 2.25 outlets
187.22 Horsepower at 9700
110.96 Foot Pounds at 7900 and looked promising but dropped off........Had us scratching our heads but this is a Full bore pure drag Race system that would benefit from bigger cams and 48MM TB

The Minimum pipe size to make peak power needs to be 2.25 anything smaller and you are killing off power


We spent 18 days and over 100 hours trying different setups, Seeing the Rear suspension twist, and having a hard time keeping the rear tire on the roller reminded me that the Concours is not built for the amount of horsepower as the rear suspension was twisting and the rear shock not able to react.


So we bolted on the BW header and its nothing more than a stock system less the Cat in a sense and proceeded to try a bunch of different slip-on mufflers with the Akrapovic muffler less the two DB killers making the most power but too loud for a touring bike, Then we tried the BW muffler and it set the packing on fire and blew its guts out across the shop. Tried some others but they all make the same peak ******** numbers of a half horsepower between them so we settled on the Stock muffler that was de-baffled and it kinda surprised us not with peak power but a decent mid-range
What I felt was just give it decent drivability and forget about Peak top end numbers due to the barn door hinges holding the back wheel to the frame.


Left a lot out but I think you get the scope! Preparing the bike to go up for sale
Jeff

1659701103282.png
 
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Hello Jeff. Interesting info on your exhaust tests. Have to disagree with Steve regarding your choice of a black widow header for the Connie. Your goal was not to build a high HP Connie as you did previously. You wanted to see where the addition of an exhaust cam and ZX14 TB's would take you on a Sport Tour motorcycle. The Black Widow was rated high by Steve previously for making power "under the curve." The VVT is the secret sauce with the Connie. Your project produced 40 HP over a stock Connie !!....I call that a huge success for minimum cost. You made 178 hp on pump gas and a Akra...! At some point, you have to jump off the horsepower wagon. If you want to make power, just pull the motor and have at it, or buy a ZX14 and go bonkers. By the way, my cam just came back from WEB. Did a nice job. Need to collect a few more parts and I will take on the project. Maybe Laker can assist you with the rear swingarm. I believe I located a fabricator to help me with the swingarm build which will be addressed at a later date...To be continued...Sean
 
Speaking of exhausts: What would be the results if one did the cam/clutch basket mods then replaced the stock C14 exhaust with one from a ZX14?

I want a quiet bike. Fast, but quiet.
 
Jeff, you said; The Minimum pipe size to make peak power needs to be 2.25 anything smaller and you are killing off power.

Are you talking about head pipe diameter or exhaust port, or mid pipe/mid pipes (x2)?
If head pipe, what header has head pipes that big? I've seen none.

Ride safe, Ted
 
Hello Jeff. Interesting info on your exhaust tests. Have to disagree with Steve regarding your choice of a black widow header for the Connie. Your goal was not to build a high HP Connie as you did previously. You wanted to see where the addition of an exhaust cam and ZX14 TB's would take you on a Sport Tour motorcycle. The Black Widow was rated high by Steve previously for making power "under the curve." The VVT is the secret sauce with the Connie. Your project produced 40 HP over a stock Connie !!....I call that a huge success for minimum cost. You made 178 hp on pump gas and a Akra...! At some point, you have to jump off the horsepower wagon. If you want to make power, just pull the motor and have at it, or buy a ZX14 and go bonkers. By the way, my cam just came back from WEB. Did a nice job. Need to collect a few more parts and I will take on the project. Maybe Laker can assist you with the rear swingarm. I believe I located a fabricator to help me with the swingarm build which will be addressed at a later date...To be continued...Sean
Yes we did a whole lot of testing as I wanted to see if we could mimic the Stock 2006 ZX14 powerband using a 2006 Non-catalist header and mufflers and that was my original intention of this build so those numbers I will post in my response to BaggerJohn

Getting the rear suspension sorted out with a good shock and having Compression & Rebound would go a long way to controlling the rear wheel along with Laker's set-up if he builds them, Would definitely consider keeping it cause my Saddlemen ZX14 Sports Channel gel seat came in last week and bolted on and left for Deals Gap Friday and was able to ride the whole four hours with a gas stop and no crushed nuts or pain of any kind, The Highway fuel Milage is in the low 50s and Commuting my average 45.4 so there are many improvements I would like to enjoy!
That's good News on the Camshaft looking forward to your build and please keep me posted
 
Jeff, you said; The Minimum pipe size to make peak power needs to be 2.25 anything smaller and you are killing off power.

Are you talking about head pipe diameter or exhaust port, or mid pipe/mid pipes (x2)?
If head pipe, what header has head pipes that big? I've seen none.

Ride safe, Ted
Hi Ted, was talking about Mid-Pipe inside diameter and Muffler outlets!
 
Speaking of exhausts: What would be the results if one did the cam/clutch basket mods then replaced the stock C14 exhaust with one from a ZX14?

I want a quiet bike. Fast, but quiet.
Unless your going to Drag Race with Hard lunching the basket is really not necessary but it's nice to have

Here is what my bike made with a 2006 ZX14 Header and Mufflers along with the ZX14 Throttle Bodies and having the Secondary plates open quicker and stay open

ZX14 No Cat in the header and No Cats in the mufflers, Pump Gasoline 93 Octane Shell, They had Our shop Dyno departments A/C cranked up so the room was 79 degrees with Humidity somewhere around 35 percent

163.44 at exactly 9700 RPM With the secondaries in the stock gear-based settings
99.59 Foot-pounds at 7800 RPM
169.85 at exactly 9700 RPM With the secondaries un-restricted
101.90 Foot-Pounds at 7800 RPM

Was nice and quiet and Duals for big motors are the most efficient
 
170 hp at 102 Tq, very nice Jeff...I see why you are so focused on the dual set-up...Sean
Stock ZX14 header is tuned for a power band that makes the bike work best for an all-around type of riding. There are trade-offs with the stock header! They give up some top-end with the 38MM head tubes for low and mid ranges but that's alright cause it's very minor.

Should have tried it with some slip-on Mufflers but all we had was a set of damaged Vance & Hines CS mufflers
 
Crystal Ball question. o_O
As you've seen what changes do to the power curve; Do you have a guess; what the effect would be if you didn't use the ZX-14 Throttle Bodies?

(Asking for a friend)
My err friend already has ZX-14 headers and Slip-on (Area P) mufflers.
Peak HP is not as important to err him.
He might want to add the ZX ex. Cam but wants to keep as much torque as possible.

Ride safe, Ted
 
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Hmmmmmmmm
Guessing I gained four to five starting in the mid-range until Peak RPM,

I know Kawasaki's marketing arm claims a better low end with the smaller throttle bodies, but I can't swallow that causes the inner TB diameter is 40MM dropping into intake manifolds and ports of 44MM and valves the same size as the ZX14. To me, it is more of a restriction sort of like what NASCAR did! The correct way would have been to Re-cast the head with smaller ports and valves to go along with the smaller TB

Some day I will bolt a CG 1400 head to our flow bench and flow it with the 44MM and then back to the 40MM just to record the upset of turbulence
 
I will take a shot at your question Ted. For my build, I will be retaining the stock TB's. I feel for a street driven Connie, it will be very potent. It looks like Jeff gained 5hp on the addition of ZX14 TB's. My Tech did a TB upgrade on someone's Connie and did not see the gains he was expecting. Just priced a ZX14 TB for a hundred bucks on the e-bay. Cheap HP if you look at it that way. Would love to give you the before and after Ted, but I will be going slow on this project because I will be doing it myself. In the next few weeks, I will try and get a baseline dyno pull on my 09 Connie. In my opinion, both bikes being equal and rider weight the same, the stock TB's would out accelerate 0-100 the bigger TB's. It's the VVT that likes velocity in my opinion. Jeff is the guru in this discussion Ted. I am just running with my knowledge of performance....Sean
 
Tell ya this guys! Swapping exhaust on the dyno is now pretty easy! But those TBs are a PITA or else I would really like to test it, Sean I can see minimal HP gains on a stock Concours if any due to not really being able to get the air out in the upper RPM range in order for an engine to breath it has to exhale

When you build a motor the most important thing is how you want it to perform then build a matched package
 
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Sorry to poke my nose in on this excellent conversation, but Iā€™m gonna do it anyway šŸ¤“

Would a port and polish make a noticeable difference? And if so, what would the cost per HP come to? If itā€™s a low budget / low complexity way of gaining 10hp why hasnā€™t everyone gone that route already?

If itā€™s just sitting there waiting to be unleashed for a couple hundred $ā€™s Iā€™d think the speed shops would be humming with business.
 
Would a port and polish make a noticeable difference?
I'll take poke at this. I'm sure someone will correct me if needed.
First, polishing of the port is a thing of the past and was never a good thing for flow.
The guys that ported the heads for my little race cars in the early 90's could improve flow by 10-15%. I talked to the one guy after I had purchased my 08 concours and he said he might get 3% on a modern design. And he couldn't do anything to a 14r which has a partial cnc port job from the factory. Even newer motors are so good that they can not be improved for street or even average level track riding. Drag racing? I don't know.

To be clear, porting and polishing are 2 different things. Porting is the reshaping of the port usually by removing material in all the right places. Polishing is what they used to do after porting by going back in and putting a mirror finish on the aluminum. In modern times its known that by leaving the ports unpolished you can guide the air better. And the fuel won't condense on the mirror finish. Also intentionally placing interruptions in certain places can speed up flow. Like the dimples on a golf ball.

Here's a fun fact. A modern zx10r with the addition of a pipe and a flash/tune has 200 hp. That's 200 from a 1-liter motor. If my 6-liter suburban was in the same state of tune it would have 1200 hp! Modern motorcycle engines are works of art and hard to make big improvements on.
 
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I'll take poke at this. I'm sure someone will correct me if needed.
First , polishing of the port is a thing of the past and was never a good thing for flow.
The guys that ported the heads for my little race cars in the early 90's could improve flow by 10-15%. I talked to the one guy after I had purchased my 08 concours and he said he might get 3% on a modern design. And he couldn't do anything to a 14r which has a partial cnc port job from the factory. Even newer motors are so good that they can not be improved for street or even average level track riding. Drag racing? I don't know.

Here's a fun fact. A modern zx10r with the addition of a pipe and a flash/tune has 200 hp. That's 200 from a 1 liter motor. If my 6 liter suburban was in the same state of tune it would have 1200 hp! Modern motorcycle engines are works of art.
Spot on Laker...Port/polish would be a WHOLE lot of work for minimum gain in my opinion. The Connie has the ZX14 head already....
 
My 2 cents; Jeff has pointed out that the diameters in the intake of these bikes have several steps.
ie; the inner TB diameter is 40MM dropping into intake manifolds and ports of 44MM and valves the same size as the ZX14.

When he mentioned it, I wondered if some basic Porting (tapering/smoothing the steps to match) would be a way to gradually transition (not remove) those steps. If so, the gain would be minimal.
I think that porting is primarily a tweak to get peak HP.

Back in the day, there was always the argument that polishing actually hurt fuel mixture because it removed turbulence at the OD/surface of the passageways.

Ride safe, Ted
 
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Glad we chatted about it. I can now move that to the no-go bin in my noodle. It just hit a few weeks back as I was reading through this that when I put a set of used 50-something cc Twisted Wedge heads on my 5.0 ā€˜Stang it opened up a whole lotta cfm. Needed to upgrade to roller cam, but wow what a difference it made.
 
For the sake of discussion;
If a person were to install a ZX-14 Ex Camshaft (and didn't have the knowledge to degree the cam) would the stock ZX Cam Gear be ok (or mebbe a ZG Cam Gear) work?
Also are the ZX and ZG Ex Cam gear timing the same? The gears and the timing marks appear to be different.
1660422540707.png

1660423957224.png

Ride safe, Ted
 
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Hello Ted. I am "dropping in" my exhaust cam. According to Jeff, it is not necessary to degree the cams. Doing the degree will "spot" them on if in fact it would make any difference with a street Connie. You must modify the cam for oiling as you know...Cheers.
 
Let me know when you are ready to send the cam to WEB. I made contact with everyone over there and they know how to modify your cam. It cost me sixty dollars plus fifty shipping to and from...Sean
 
Speaking of exhausts: What would be the results if one did the cam/clutch basket mods then replaced the stock C14 exhaust with one from a ZX14?

I want a quiet bike. Fast, but quiet.
John,
Sent you a PM. I installed 2008 header for the diameter. Cut a square hole in collector to punch out the cat. Mounted a set of 2014 take off mufflers. I was lucky to get a hanger from Muzzy while they were packing up the shop for the left pipe.
Buddy of mine has the same flash. Several other performance mods and a full AreaP. We did a 3rd gear roll on and he couldnā€™t pull away from me.
And they are stock quiet.
Check your inbox
 
I'm looking at this discussion again as I'm getting interested in the idea.
(Possible Winter project)
Eyes are bleeding from all the re-reading.
Hoping someone can help me find some details.

As I read it:
A ZX Exhaust cam install will work for "road use" and provide improvements without the need to modify the Clutch/Oil pump etc?
,,,, ie; Nothing else needed to allow the cam to work?
The 2007-2008 was the Exhaust cam of choice.
A Flash (of some type) and headers (of some type) would allow a bigger improvement.
,,,,ie; I have the MRP and 2006 ZX-14 headers on my bike.

Wondering; where in the discussion, are the machining details for the grooving and cross-drilling the cam?

Ride safe, Ted
 
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I know November was a while back. Thought I'd ping this discussion and see if anyone did the ZX-14 Exhaust cam install since that time.

Ride safe, Ted
 
Nothing yet Ted. I do have all the parts except the shims. I will probably do the ZX10R flywheel upgrade first and throw a sprint filter in and do a baseline dyno pull on the Connie. My guess on this would be 165-167 hp to the wheel...Sean
 
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Nothing yet Ted. I do have all the parts except the shims. I will probably do the ZX10R flywheel upgrade first and throw a sprint filter in and do a baseline dyno pull on the Connie. My guess on this would be 165-167 hp to the wheel...Sean
I'm not familiar with this, but if it's a lighter flywheel, don't do it. I have experience with this on cars and trucks, the result of a lighter flywheel is less inertia for the reciprocating assembly and it's really easy to bog the engine on initial take off. Horrible for street use.
Steve
 
I appreciate your input gents. I'm going to test this out and report back. I have spoken to several performance shops who did the upgrade on the ZX14 platform and it worked well...Sean
 
Nothing yet Ted. I do have all the parts except the shims. I will probably do the ZX10R flywheel upgrade first and throw a sprint filter in and do a baseline dyno pull on the Connie. My guess on this would be 165-167 hp to the wheel...Sean
Sean that's about a one-pound difference between the ZX14/ZG and the ZX10 Rotor/alternator and almost one pound in the Stator cause its smaller windings you know that part is stationary and bolts to the case, the ZX14 crowd praises the engine spin-up.
something to keep in mind since a heaver rotor aids in low engine speed momentum in a heavy bike with tall gearing you might have to slip the clutch a little or a lot.
 
Hello Jeff. Thank you for the support. SAE Outlaw racing makes titanium components for the clutch basket and stator bolt. I will also install this with the flywheel. It should take me down 1.5 pounds total. I will do this before the cam install. Very interested to see what "big red" does on the dyno afterwards..Sean
 
Sean, your bike is RED? What year?
(I knew there was something about you that I liked)

Ok, getting into theory.
HP is Torque x RPM divided by 5252.
Trying to visualize HP increase?
I can understand spin-up improvement and loss of torque. (ie; I've lightened and added weight to flywheel's/ etc to get the result of both)
I know the engine will spin up faster, and the torque curve will change, but I question an increase in peak HP?
Ride safe, Ted
 
Hello Jeff. Thank you for the support. SAE Outlaw racing makes titanium components for the clutch basket and stator bolt. I will also install this with the flywheel. It should take me down 1.5 pounds total. I will do this before the cam install. Very interested to see what "big red" does on the dyno afterwards..Sean
Of Course Sean always like to see thinking like there is no box šŸ“¦

Back in the nineties Ducat experimented with lighter drive trains, gears and clutch baskets to to capture every bit of HP and it worked! Itā€™s a usable mod in road race and flat track world cause of light machines that run at peak power 99 percent.

You will definitely see it spin up faster, youā€™re going to free up the horsepower the engine is already producing and send it to the back wheel rather than have it dissipated as parasitic losses, Excited to see your progress.

Here is my example using one of my street V-Rods. Very mild 1130cc with lightly Street ported heads and torque cams spun the Dyno to 126 hp. We then replaced the rear rim that had a combined weight with the tire of fifty one pounds with a set Of BST carbon fiber wheels from Brockā€™s.

Using a Light drag radial our combo shed 22 pounds of rotational inertia for the engine to overcome and the result was seven horsepower, even better results in handling buts thatā€™s a whole other thing!
 
Jeff, you may have answered my question about more peak HP. I can see less weight changing the rate that HP is produced, but not more peak HP. Apparently your (22 lb change at the rear wheel) allowed it to make more peak HP too.

Ride safe, Ted
 
Jeff, you may have answered my question about more peak HP. I can see less weight changing the rate that HP is produced, but not more peak HP. Apparently your (22 lb change at the rear wheel) allowed it to make more peak HP too.

Ride safe, Ted
Easiest way to think of it Ted is the engine produces Torque and some of that is lost once transferred to heavy drive line components, Changing out the heavy parts for lighter spinning parts frees up that lost Torque that would just be lost in in heat.

I know I keep writing Torque but in reality that what engines makešŸ’ŖšŸ¼Dynos software convert it mathematically to a HP number.

Just to add fuel to this discussion I imagine the shaft drive system is sucking up 10 or more ponies ?
 
Yupp, torque is measured, HP is a calculation based on Torque/RPM's.
You're saying that the rotating mass (or inefficiency of the driveshaft) is using up Torque/HP, so the Torque/HP we see at the rear wheel is affected.
So, decreasing weight (or using chain drive) will show up as a net HP "increase" at the rear wheel?

In my case: We used to ride Hare Scrambles on Enduro bikes.
To go faster, we installed Motocross flywheels which are seriously smaller/lighter than Enduro Flywheels.
The bikes went faster, but normal woods riding was hurt. (ie: we lost torque)
We found a happy fix by machining flywheel weights that attached to the motocross Flywheel.
Hare scrambles, we removed the weight. For a weekend in the woods we added the weight.

Ride safe, Ted
 
Yupp, torque is measured, HP is a calculation based on Torque/RPM's.
You're saying that the rotating mass (or inefficiency of the driveshaft) is using up Torque/HP, so the Torque/HP we see at the rear wheel is affected.
So, decreasing weight (or using chain drive) will show up as a net HP "increase" at the rear wheel?

In my case: We used to ride Hare Scrambles on Enduro bikes.
To go faster, we installed Motocross flywheels which are seriously smaller/lighter than Enduro Flywheels.
The bikes went faster, but normal woods riding was hurt. (ie: we lost torque)
We found a happy fix by machining flywheel weights that attached to the motocross Flywheel.
Hare scrambles, we removed the weight. For a weekend in the woods we added the weight.

Ride safe, Ted
Your first paragraph is a Big Yes!!!

Early two strokes required heavy flywheels to build momentum off the crankshaft for low speed lugging that hare scramble or enduro bikes need.

Big difference between two and four strokes besides the power revolutions is four strokes build torque down low as opposed to two strokes building it much higher in the rev range!
 
Good information Gents ! Black Widow Powersports has seen up to a 3 hp increase with the light flywheel upgrade on the ZX14's Ted. It is a performance enhancement. I do not know anyone with a Connie who has done it. The parts include: (1) spacer, (1) ZX10R stator, (1) ZX10R flywheel. Black Widow actually cuts a ZX14 flywheel to reduce weight. The ZX10R flywheel option requires an aluminum spacer to work with the stator. Looking at a $ 300.00 or more investment Ted in order to get the parts noted. The cut flywheel is more costly...Sean
 
Sean, your bike is RED? What year?
(I knew there was something about you that I liked)

Ok, getting into theory.
HP is Torque x RPM divided by 5252.
Trying to visualize HP increase?
I can understand spin-up improvement and loss of torque. (ie; I've lightened and added weight to flywheel's/ etc to get the result of both)
I know the engine will spin up faster, and the torque curve will change, but I question an increase in peak HP?
Ride safe, Ted
2009 Red Concourse....
 
Hello Ted. The eBay part you posted is not the proper component. The flywheel I possess is a 2007 ZX10R. There are many hot rodder's around the country running a light flywheel in the Gen 1 ZX14's, of which the Connie shares the same crankshaft and flywheel. Remember Ted, if you want to do this upgrade, you need a custom spacer. Go to YouTube and type in ZX10R spacer for flywheel. Regarding the loss of low end torque, I can't speak of this as I have not tried this set up. I will say if I'm racing you and I have a light flywheel, and you are stock, you are losing traction and I'm not. I'm spinning up faster, I'm looking at you in my mirror...Sean
 
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