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Installing home made block off plates. Why must reed valve be removed???

ONOBob

Member
Member
Hey guys,

I need advice.

To kill time whilst sheltering at home, I made a set of block off plates from some 1/8" scrap aluminum.

Now, the install instructions for the Murphs kit says " reed valve must be removed"

Why is that?

The reed valve has a nice O ring gasket, would save the trouble of going to parts store to buy "form a gasket"

Thanks
ONO Bob
 
OK, I looked at the Murphs product more closely.
I see it sits down in the valve cover,  in the space where the reed valve was.
So, I still have the same question.

Can I just leave the reed valve in there and put my flat cover on over it?

Thanks!
ONO Bob
 
You may be able to but you would most likely  have clearance issues getting the valve cover off with them on .
 
I left the reed valves in place when I made my flat block off plates. They made noise and didn't seal very well. I had gasket material from another project, so I made two gaskets the size of the plates. Now it seals and doesn't make noise. But, I never found any bolts that were low enough of a profile that allowed you to leave them on when removing the valve cover. Don't matter, those 4 bolts on the block off plates are easy to zip off.
 
when i did a valve adjustment, i just tapped the holes in the valve cover and installed  m8 setscrews to block the holes, then flap-wheeled down the cover boxes a bit, then repainted.

 

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Ya I did that too. Just tap the hole and install a set screw.
Done. No gaskets, no screw heads in the way and more
clearance.
 
i used blue loctite, but i also tapped it down maybe halfway to make a thread stop. it does not leak.
 
M C and Rwulf...    great idea.
  I don't have the tools, but a friend does.
May have to do that next valve check.

I was thinking teflon tape to ensure a good thread seal
Cheers
 
teflon tape as an fyi, is only for tapered threads. (thread seal threads), I actually work on the valve industry, this is a huge pet peeve of mine.  :beerchug:

  use loctite.
 
Bat Boy.
Thanks for the feedback.

My bike is an 06 with low miles, the O rings on the reed valves seem pretty resilient.
I'll go with just them first,  and then not be surprised if they're noisy, and prolly wind up getting some gasket material.
If I get ambitious I'll tap the vale holes per Wulf and MC.

ONO Bob


 
as an fyi, the hole is the right size to just run an M8 tap down. (future reference). just tap is enough for the setscrew to sit flush and you are done there.

I have tiny weepholes drilled on the lower corners of the remains of the boxes but ive never even see moisture in there so it was probably a waste of time. .02
 
Yep just tap down low enough to set the screw all the way into the cam cover.
The soft aluminum will deform enough to lock the set screw in and hold it.
 
The next time I have the valve cover off, I might put set screws in, but I looked at my tap set and guess which size is broken? The 8mm of course. I really should buy a new tap next time I'm at the hardware store. Although, if I can find some allen button head fasteners. that would work with my homemade flat covers. A forum member mention he used a steel cover plate from an electric box. I had a couple extra, so I copycatted.

Bob, if you decide you need gasket material, most auto part stores have sheets of it for sale. I bought a variety set from Mr. Gasket. It was a little cheaper than the others and the package had more sheets than the rest.
 
I've mentioned the "tap and plug" procedure many times over the last 14 years, it is the most effective and surefire "eco" fix.

You don't have to have a M8 tap to do it, a simple SAE 5/16" -18 UNC  or 5/16-24 UNF tap will do the job, as they are basically the same diameter as an M8... just use the correct corresponding allen head set screw.

Blow out the chips, when doing this on the bench, and then apply Black RTV sealant to the screw threads, and install...  done deal.
 
MOB, thanks for the info. I do have both course and fine 5/16" taps. I saw Amazon has the 5/16 stainless steel set screws in 18 pitch. I also saw they have the low-profile button-head bolts too. What did we do before Amazon one click shopping?
 
We went to Lowe's...
or ordered from McMaster Carr... fast shipping, and low prices...  ;)

oh, don't waste money on S/S screws that are never gonna need to be removed, and will be covered up anyway... :great:
 
I forgot about McMasters Carr, it's been years since I used them.

If you have a Lowes close to you, great. It's 45 miles away from me and now the whole State is locked down.
 
Been using McMaster Carr for years. Hospital I used to work at, I could order and pay with payroll deduction. Always use to joke if they sold motorcycle parts/ accessories, I'd be broke. :)) :))
 
you're just going to cause detonation poor fuel economy and hurt ridability. You're also going to guzzle more fuel but for no benefit because the EGR system is used at moderate throttle, not idle or WOT. So why make yourself miserable with all this work? You aren't going to make any more horsepower...
 
Douglas said:
you're just going to cause detonation poor fuel economy and hurt ridability. You're also going to guzzle more fuel but for no benefit because the EGR system is used at moderate throttle, not idle or WOT. So why make yourself miserable with all this work? You aren't going to make any more horsepower...


[Thanks for the feedback.
I did not know this.
I have not to heard this before.
I did not do it for more horsepower.
I did it because I don't like all the clutter.
I ride very conservatively due to health issues - recurrent vertigo
I can't ride fast, I can't ride far, I can't ride often.
But when I can, I still like to ride.

I'll keep the parts JIC the issues you mention become a problem

Thanks again
ONO Bob]
 
Douglas said:
you're just going to cause detonation poor fuel economy and hurt ridability. You're also going to guzzle more fuel but for no benefit because the EGR system is used at moderate throttle, not idle or WOT. So why make yourself miserable with all this work? You aren't going to make any more horsepower...

thats just not true. I agree about the HP, no diff, but it does make the exhaust run cooler as its not pulling in fresh air and enhancing the burn in the exhaust.  Its not an egr system. it DOES pull air from the airbox and pull it thru the exhaust when the valves open. But eliminating it doesn't affect rideability or idle whatsoever.
 
m in sc said:
Douglas said:
you're just going to cause detonation poor fuel economy and hurt ridability. You're also going to guzzle more fuel but for no benefit because the EGR system is used at moderate throttle, not idle or WOT. So why make yourself miserable with all this work? You aren't going to make any more horsepower...

thats just not true. I agree about the HP, no diff, but it does make the exhaust run cooler as its not pulling in fresh air and enhancing the burn in the exhaust.  Its not an egr system. it DOES pull air from the airbox and pull it thru the exhaust when the valves open. But eliminating it doesn't affect rideability or idle whatsoever.

[ Thanks MC.
Does it make the C10 a little less hot to ride?  I hope so.
I went half naked last year, still too hot.
I bought a Madstad this winter, hoping some airflow under the windshield will help.
No chance to try it yet.
 
Reeds left in place can cause an interference issue:
reed%201-L.jpg


Allen head set screws in place:
IMG_3666-L.jpg


Covers:
Img_3686-L.jpg


Machined plug for air box:
IMG_3701-X5.jpg


Plug in place:
IMG_3704-X5.jpg


Initial screws. Still had to remove a couple to remove valve cover:
IMG_3694-X5.jpg


Changed to countersunk. No screws need removed now:
IMG_4962-X2.jpg


And that's all I have to say about that.
 
That's a mouthful Guy. LOL
Thanks for the input.
I'll remove the reeds and buy or borrow a tap and plug the holes.

 
Well.....I guess I screwed up then.  I installed home-made plates made out of some sheet aluminum from an old Cessna several years ago.  All I did was wipe the carbon off the tops of the reed plates and bolt the covers on.  Many thousands of miles ago, no issues that I know of.  Still have to take the bolts off to get the valve cover off for valve checks, but that's no big deal.  I mainly did it just to clean up the top of the engine.

pic below
 

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The main reason I put the plates on was for ease of removal of the cover . It was disappointing to find it nessacary to remove those screws . I'll be counter sinking mine at next valve adjust .
 
my reasoning actually had more to do with the cooling fan. hear me out:

my dead stock bike, when i got it, had about 33k on it. by thins point it had already melted some of the fan blades, and the exhaust was so freaking hot that i didn't see any benefit of making it hotter, which is what the pair valves do. also, the obvious clearance issues from pulling the valve cover, which i could deal with, but what benefit was i getting keeping it on vs off? nothing.

I replaced the fan with an spal unit, and made heat shields for the 2 inner pipes , and removed the pair setup. the fan is surviving nicely now.
Im not sure theres a cooler 'feeling' motor, but its not running any worse at all.

I know the breather tube from the motor connects to the bottom of the airbox, and i'm sure the system will pull some crankcase pressure, at least in theory, with it, but I don't think that would be very effective overall. I've seen zero negative to pulling this system off.


 
People have been blocking this system for years.
But, I've forgotten; What is the system supposed to do?

Ride safe, Ted
 
 
connie_rider said:
People have been blocking this system for years.
But, I've forgotten; What is the system supposed to do?

Ride safe, Ted

It allows a shot of air (oxygen) to be drawn the into the exhaust stream to allow it to mix with the exhaust gases, make it hotter, to burn any residual products that didn't get completely taken care of during the combustion cycle. Later designs utilize catalytic converters that create the high heat necessary to take care of them.

If you'll recall, vehicles back in the 60's time frame used air pumps to inject air (oxygen) into the exhaust stream. Same process, different scheme.
 
Hi there Peoples,
Not exactly a newbie to bikes here, I've had at least 30, many of them liter or bigger. Just sayin' 'cause the question I'm about to ask is obviously obvious to you but is something I didn't know until I bought my second C1 last fall, joined the forum and saw the thing about murph's block off plates.

So, I feel uneducated, but could someone please give me a short summation of why I want to remove that ugly mess? Can I just pull the valve cover off, seal up the holes, tap in new threads for my probably homemade plates, remove the reeds and that mess of ugly plumbing? What do I gain other than cleanliness, and what if anything good do I lose?
Thanks , I know this is obviously old hat to many of you. :) I have my bike torn apart at the moment going through a complete tune up. Would be a good time to fab some plates...
 
Hi Martin
Welcome to the COG forum.  First thing to point out is that we are an actual club, not just a forum.  You'll get all the info you would ever need here.  Please consider joining as a full member.  You'll get a book full of contact info for folks in the club that will do things like help you on the road if need be.  Trust me, it's well worth it. :)
As for the plumbing in your question.  Many pull it to "clean up" the top of the engine for what that's worth.  The system injects air into the exhaust to lower emissions.  That injection of air makes the exhaust hotter, which can warm the rider as well.  It's an individual decision.  Not a big deal one way or the other.  You might also note that it's a C10 instead of C1.  Once again, welcome to the cog forum.  We're glad you're here! :)
 
MLJGTR said:
Hi there Peoples,
Not exactly a newbie to bikes here, I've had at least 30, many of them liter or bigger. Just sayin' 'cause the question I'm about to ask is obviously obvious to you but is something I didn't know until I bought my second C1 last fall, joined the forum and saw the thing about murph's block off plates.

So, I feel uneducated, but could someone please give me a short summation of why I want to remove that ugly mess? Can I just pull the valve cover off, seal up the holes, tap in new threads for my probably homemade plates, remove the reeds and that mess of ugly plumbing? What do I gain other than cleanliness, and what if anything good do I lose?
Thanks , I know this is obviously old hat to many of you. :) I have my bike torn apart at the moment going through a complete tune up. Would be a good time to fab some plates...

view reply 21 of this thread. Me? i just flap wheeled the boxes down and plugged the holes.  it pulls fresh air in btw, not 'really' injected like an automotive air pump, but similar result.
 
One advantage of removing them is it can make valve cover removal easier.
To really get that advantage, very low profile or countersunk screws are better.
As your Northwest, you may have California model with a Charcoal canister.
  Many remove all of that mess too.

Ride safe, Ted
 
I took everyone's advice.
1. Tapped and plugged the holes with M8 screws and blue locktite.
2. Installed home made cover plates
3. Countersunk plates so screws would be flat.
4. Painted it all black, had some paint left over from another project, so why not.

Very happy with it.
Thanks for the tips everyone.
Cheers
BobIMG_0478.jpg
 
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