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KPass FOB Gives Sub Key Error When Used in Dead Battery Mode

jim.scheidegger11670

Degger
Member
I owned a C10 for for 16 years and just moved to a 2016 C14 (I'm it's 3rd owner). I love the bike but am finding the KiPass a poor replacement for a simple key. The spare fob was clearly from another bike (the previous owner bought it from a dealer and never tried it). I was happy to see it could be reprogrammed. I bought a blank physical key for the spare fob and had it cut...good!

Now I wanted to see if the main fob, which works perfectly otherwise, would start the bike if I removed the battery and placed it over the notch by the key as instructed in the MOM. I got a SUB key Error - it didn't work:( I went to the local dealership and the head service guy first told me that he doesn't believe that a fob with a dead battery can do this (ugh!!!...thanks to COG I don't have to deal with these idiots much). I showed him the MOM and he reluctantly decided i was right but that there was nothing I could do to fix it outside of replacing it. This feature is not a necessity to me but if I can fix it without spending too much...good!

So my questions is:
---Anyone have a similar issue and know how to fix this problem without buying a new fob and programming it?
Also, somewhat related:
---I read on this site that the C14 comes with 2 FOBs. Does that mean two battery powered FOBs or one battery powered one and a spare credit card fob?
---Also, if I loss the main FOB can the spare FOB be used to program a new main FOB without buying replacing the ECU?

Thanks so much for any help you all can give me.
 
I watched Steve's YouTube video more carefully and that answered my second 2 questions (thanks Steve!!!)

So I will rephrase my question:

If my main FOB's Proximity Immobilizer function is not working, can that function of the FOB be reprogrammed through a KDS in the same way as my dealer programmed my spare credit card FOB?
 
I watched Steve's YouTube video more carefully and that answered my second 2 questions (thanks Steve!!!)

So I will rephrase my question:

If my main FOB's Proximity Immobilizer function is not working, can that function of the FOB be reprogrammed through a KDS in the same way as my dealer programmed my spare credit card FOB?
Yes, but the dealer needs to program all passive immobilizers at the same time, so have them all available for the same procedure.

Steve
 
Thanks so much Steve for responding!!! I'm still trying to wrap my head around how this all works. I can be a little slow so bare with me. So are you saying that it is true that the passive immobilizer in the MAIN FOB and the SPARE FOB are programmed from the KDS the same way? But I will need to have both the MAIN FOB immobilizer and SPARE immobilizer programmed at the same time? Is that what you are saying?

The service manager at my local dealership told me that if I wanted to fix the immobilizer feature of the main FOB I would need to buy a new one. But that is the same person who told me that the main FOB doesn't have an immobilizer feature until I showed him the MOM;(
 
I just was at the dealer yesterday, and even if you have all the passive fobs with you, they can still screw it* up by doing each one individually instead of sequentially. That is, each time they did one individually it cleared out the others that they did earlier. They should see the number on the screen increment to the total number of passive chips registered. Yes I had to go back. I thought I'd look like an asshat if I checked their work in their parking lot, so I went home and sure enough only one passive chip working when I should have had 4. (I have two larger active fobs and two credit card fobs) I went back and they figured it out.

The following comes from my being stupid or over confident (I prefer the latter), but I recommend: A brightly colored lanyard for each FOB and somewhere on the FOB or lanyard should be at least a phone number and perhaps the following "$REWARD$". They are too expensive not to have every chance of getting it back.

* not intending the usual dealer service bashing, they have to sell such a variety of stuff now just to stay in business, most selling multiple brands of bikes as well as 4 wheelers and watercraft it's a wonder they can get anything done and still get all the training they need to stay current.

Thanks so much Steve for responding!!! I'm still trying to wrap my head around how this all works. I can be a little slow so bare with me. So are you saying that it is true that the passive immobilizer in the MAIN FOB and the SPARE FOB are programmed from the KDS the same way? But I will need to have both the MAIN FOB immobilizer and SPARE immobilizer programmed at the same time? Is that what you are saying?

The service manager at my local dealership told me that if I wanted to fix the immobilizer feature of the main FOB I would need to buy a new one. But that is the same person who told me that the main FOB doesn't have an immobilizer feature until I showed him the MOM;(
You do not need a new FOB, they should be able to register the passive immobilizer chip in the active fob that you have. Although if they charge you for the actual time it takes them to train themselves it could get expensive. Try to get the "book rate".
Yes you need to have the credit card passive fob(s) with you...unlike the active fob registration (think of active fob registration as etched in stone ) the passive fob registration clears out each time you register a chip(s).
 
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Okay, I have one more question.
Two weeks ago I brought in a Spare Fob to be registered. Is it possible that my Main Fob immobilizer does not work because they didn't register it also when they registered my Spare Fob? I guess, I'm assuming that if the dealer registers a Spare Fob they must also reregister the Main Fob. Does that make sense?
 
Okay, I have one more question.
Two weeks ago I brought in a Spare Fob to be registered. Is it possible that my Main Fob immobilizer does not work because they didn't register it also when they registered my Spare Fob? I guess, I'm assuming that if the dealer registers a Spare Fob they must also reregister the Main Fob. Does that make sense?
Yes, absolutely. When one immobilizer is programmed ALL must be done during the same procedure. Otherwise any immobilizers that were not programmed will no longer work. This includes the immobilizer in the KiPass FOB.

Where are you located? I have a KDS3 and have done this many times. I'm near Indianapolis, IN.
 
Yes, absolutely. When one immobilizer is programmed ALL must be done during the same procedure. Otherwise any immobilizers that were not programmed will no longer work. This includes the immobilizer in the KiPass FOB.

Where are you located? I have a KDS3 and have done this many times. I'm near Indianapolis, IN.
I REALLY appreciate the offer. I'm on the other side of Florida to Steve. I hate going back to the dealership as these guys are a horrible combination of ignorant and arrogant. I already paid them about $50 for registering my spare. In your opinion is the cost of registering one Fob the same as registering two? I'd like to take a chance on them doing the right thing but I'm not sure if they will try to charge me and additional $50 for registering both. Again, thanks so much for the offer to help me out. ---Jim
 
I already paid them about $50 for registering my spare. In your opinion is the cost of registering one Fob the same as registering two? I'd like to take a chance on them doing the right thing but I'm not sure if they will try to charge me and additional $50 for registering both. Again, thanks so much for the offer to help me out. ---Jim
They should charge by time and it takes only seconds to add more passive FOBs during the same procedure. I was charged $56.75 yesterday for registering two active FOBs and 4 passive chips. They didn't charge me for the return visit ( nor I them ;)).
If you had all your Fobs there at the time, then I would argue that they screwed up and should have known that when they registered your spare that they would need to re-register the passive part of your active FOB....but I wasn't there and now rereading your posts I'm not exactly sure what transpired and in what order...so no telling what they'll try to do...but even if they charge you another $50.00 just be sure they don't try to get $100 because it's more than one passive chip needing to be registered.
 
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I REALLY appreciate the offer. I'm on the other side of Florida to Steve. I hate going back to the dealership as these guys are a horrible combination of ignorant and arrogant. I already paid them about $50 for registering my spare. In your opinion is the cost of registering one Fob the same as registering two? I'd like to take a chance on them doing the right thing but I'm not sure if they will try to charge me and additional $50 for registering both. Again, thanks so much for the offer to help me out. ---Jim
Practically speaking it should 15-20 minutes to remove the seat, hook up the KDS3, program all the immobilizers, TEST THEM ALL (very important step!!), button things back up. Depending on their billing practices that should be 30 minutes of labor. So $50 sounds to be in the right range.

But you're paying $100 (or more) per hour for what they claim to know how to do. From what I've heard in many cases they don't even know how to get the software loaded much less use the thing. The sad part is that the KDS3 system is not exclusive to the C14. Many other Kawasaki models use it (not for key programming but for diagnostics) and it's clear dealers rarely use it for that.
 
I agree with FartyMarty, if you had all the fobs with you and they failed to reprogram all of them including the passive aspect of the Fob then I would go back and have them reprogrammed and ask that it be done for nothing as they screwed up. But it is hard to follow if you bought another fob and didn't bring it with you at the time then it may be on you to pay another $50 to have all of them reprogrammed including the passive part of the Fob depending on the mood of the service manager I guess.
 
The following comes from my being stupid or over confident (I prefer the latter), but I recommend: A brightly colored lanyard for each FOB and somewhere on the FOB or lanyard should be at least a phone number and perhaps the following "$REWARD$". They are too expensive not to have every chance of getting it back.
I have two active fobs. One is on red lanyard I wear around my neck. I got the lanyard as a door prize at some COG event. The other is at home in a place the wife can find if I loose the one I'm using. I'll have her ship it over night while I sit in the motel drinking barley pops. ;) Hopefully I'm not out in the middle of Egypt someplace.

A FOB does not belong in a jacket pocket unless it's zipped. Even then it's a bit shaky. I knew a guy once who became known as No FOB Bob. His FOB fell out of his jacket pocket and ended on the side of he road. Fortunately some other COGGERS went and found it.
 
Can't thank you all enough. Better than solving the problem you all helped me to understand it. After being in COG for so long, I felt I could change my ride but not my Owners Group. COG is really unrivaled. There may be bigger groups but none smarter.
 
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