Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild

txfatboy · Nov 24, 2013

One of my long term projects has been rebuilding/updating my 90 Connie. Thanks to this fantastic source of info, over the top generosity of others, and some great deals/finds on ebay, I have acquired enough parts to start my own upgrade project. I just about have the chassis/brakes sorted and am only needing some zx10b rods and I can start reassembling the engine. The project entails 17 inch wheels, inverted forks from zx9/7 combo, ZZR rear shock, 1052 build which will eventually have SISF's cams, jet kit, and a modified exhaust, stick coils, block off plates, cruise control, etc.. I did differ in the Mean Streak rear swap in that I did not machine the wheel. I used an unmodified wheel, caliper, and rotor from a Mean Streak. I boxed/reenforced the Connie swing arm and added a lug to bolt the Mean Streak caliper bracket down. Then all I had to do was have the caliper bracket thinned down slightly to match the thickness of the Concours caliper bracket. This will allow me to use a stock wheel, caliper, and rotor from a mean streak without having any machine work done, and, I can swap right back over to a Concours setup if needed.

Steve in sunny Fla · Nov 24, 2013

some cool ideas there, in particular the swingarm mod. I like it! it ought to be a very nice bike when you're done. I have an 01 I'm thinking of doing similarly, your method of swingarm mod might just get "borrowed" - Steve

willyp · Nov 24, 2013

Nice... but what's the sticker on the fork? I'm not saying what I think it says. :-[

mcfly · Nov 24, 2013

Nice work!! Certainly putting lots of SPORT in your sport tourer. :motonoises: :beerchug:

Perhaps a silly question, but, is there a enough clearance between the rear brake and the right pannier?

bergmen · Nov 24, 2013

Wow, very cool! Nice work!

Keep us up to date...

Dan

txfatboy · Nov 24, 2013

Thanks Guys. I have to say, this project wouldn't have even started if it wasn't for all the info I was able to "borrow" ;D .

Mcfly said:
Nice work!! Certainly putting lots of SPORT in your sport tourer. :motonoises: :beerchug:

Perhaps a silly question, but, is there a enough clearance between the rear brake and the right pannier?

Lots off room, The caliper sits in the cut-out of the saddle bag.

turbo-max · Nov 24, 2013

:great: nice, i love it so far!!! great work

mcfly · Nov 24, 2013

Outstanding... You get a one to two pot brake upgrade outta the deal too.
Just keeps getting better... :great:

smooooth · Nov 24, 2013

Very Very Nice Work!!!!

Ideas bouncing around in my head..................

Stephen

airmonger · Nov 24, 2013

And I thought the single pot was prone to locking up! Your gonna be in the Motard class now

. Whahoooooooo

hazy14 · Nov 24, 2013

Tell me more about the rear shock. What year and model did this come off of? Is this a direct bolt on? Would love to upgrade the my shock, if the price is right of course.

gfinca · Nov 24, 2013

Looks great so far, txfatboy. Seeing how I've done everything you described, I predict you'll be extremely happy with the finished product

I certainly am! Looking forward to seeing your progress. :great:

txfatboy · Nov 25, 2013

AirMonger said:
And I thought the single pot was prone to locking up! Your gonna be in the Motard class now . Whahoooooooo

No biggie for me, I've been using the rear brakes as habit for a long time. When the Connie is loaded 2 up + gear, I like to use all the brakes I can.... Heavy on the front brakes on initial apply then apply the rear until the ass-o-meter tells me when it's enough.

Hazy said:
Tell me more about the rear shock. What year and model did this come off of? Is this a direct bolt on? Would love to upgrade the my shock, if the price is right of course.

The rear shock is from a ZZR1200 (all years IIRC) I made a simple bracket to mount the preload adjuster and trimmed the edge of the side cover flush. Its close but it fits, looks like it came from Ma Kaw that way. I was very lucky, mine was a brand new "take-off" with a claimed 0 miles (It looked fresh off the assembly line), delivered for only $75.00 off of ebay. There is a ton of info on what it takes to mount this and other shocks. I chose to use the ZZR1200 because I got a great deal. Just make sure, if you use the ZZR1200 rear shock, make SURE you get the LOWER mounting bolt and bushing. The Concours lower bolt will not work.

GF-in-CA said:
Looks great so far, txfatboy. Seeing how I've done everything you described, I predict you'll be extremely happy with the finished product I certainly am! Looking forward to seeing your progress. :great:

Thanks Gary. Its because of you, Steve, Dan, Tony, and others and all the time and effort y'all put in that make this possible. Except for the "vibration" issues I love this bike. It does everything I want in a bike and I ride almost everyday. The trunk and bags make it very versatile, and with the help of Steve, the 2000 is peppy enough to keep things interesting. I have acquired a cd from Dan, and if I ever come across a 1200 engine within my budget, I'll do that as well.

willyp · Nov 25, 2013

AirMonger said:
And I thought the single pot was prone to locking up! Your gonna be in the Motard class now . Whahoooooooo

I remember way back someone had used a front duel pot caliper on the rear, and reported that it was actually less likely to lock, as the duel pot gave better control over the braking pressure. Makes sense, because, per given travel of the foot pedal, you are still pushing the same volume of fluid into the caliper, but with a larger piston area, the pad will move less distance. Or in other words, that 'point of lock-up' will be spread over a slightly longer pedal travel, giving finer control.

txfatboy · Mar 8, 2014

Well Just a small update so far, I got the last little bit of machining done to the lower triple clamp bushing so the Connie stem would be at the correct height. I also made a simple press to push the fairing frame out a little so that the lower triple clamp would clear. I did a final mock-up of the front end and everything bolts up like it came that way. The new bars and bar mounts/risers will be delivered soon so that I can mount the bars and figure out how long the brake and clutch lines need to be. I also FINALLY found a local small engine machine shop that can bore the cylinders for the zrx pistons and I FINALLY found a set of zx10b rods that are in pristine condition. The machine shop says they have a lot of experience with the water cooled Kawasaki inline 4s.... Now I have to work on freshening up the head and get in touch with Steve about some cams and jet kits for the carbs. Oh, and I'll be on the look out for a zzr alternator as well.

txfatboy · Mar 24, 2014

Okay, I have tried twice to add an update with pictures and couldn't get it to work. I thought the pictures might have been too big so I resized them and gonna try again. The rods are almost ready to go, and I got the cylinders back from the machinist. I also got the bars and risers mounted but the bars are only temporary. Now I'm looking at the head thinking I should have been working on it while I was waiting for the other parts to arrive...... ???

bobct · Mar 27, 2014

Nice looking. Good idea on the rear wheel install. I like the placement of the rear shock adjuster. Keep up the good work. Those zrx motors are pretty costly. That's for one without carbs alt and starter on top of it.

txfatboy · Apr 8, 2014

Thanks Bob_C_CT. Ive been working on this bike for a while. I just finished bolting the front end back together and I have started working on the engine. I can't wait to ride this thing.

gypsyfubal · Apr 11, 2014

I've got my mean streak sitting in my dad's driveway that I blew the motor on before I bought my concours. Sounds like I'm about to cannibalize the meanie.

Quick question. Did you use the brake hose from the mean streak as well?

gypsyfubal · Apr 11, 2014

And how much did you shave off that caliper bracket? Can you do it with a grinder?

txfatboy · Apr 11, 2014

The rear brake hose is a braided steel line from PinWall on ebay. IIRC it was about 21 inches long. The bike is at the shop so I can't measure it at this moment. The brake caliper bracket was narrowed 0.09 inches on each side at every hole except the recessed side for the bolts that bolt the caliper to the bracket. I also had to do some very minor grinding on the inside face of the caliper bracket to give the rear rotor bolts some room. After having the bracket narrowed, I bolted the wheel on, found a bolt that fit the threads of the caliper bracket and cut a steel sleeve to length and bolted the sleeve to the caliper bracket so I could locate where to weld the sleeve onto the swing arm. The Meanstreak bolts the caliper bracket in a similar position but that part of the Meanstreak swing arm is a thick cast piece. This area on the Concours swing arm is thin sheet metal that is not designed for the bending loads that would be applied. That is why I boxed the area with 1/8 inch steel plate. It didn't add much weight but significantly stiffened the swing arm in that area.
As far as using a grinder, well I guess you could but EVERY mounting surface on that bracket needs to be flat and parallel and perpendicular to the axle center line so that there is equal/even pressure on the bearing on that side and so that the brake pads are parallel to the rotor.

willyp · Apr 14, 2014

If you really want to try milling it yourself without a mill, I have had some success milling aluminum using a router bit chucked in a drill press.

txfatboy · Jul 9, 2014

Well I finished reworking the head. I took everything apart, cleaned and inspected the parts. The cam lobes looked almost perfect except for one VERY small pit on one cam lobe. I cleaned off all the carbon from the ports (the exhaust had more build up than I expected) and chambers and lapped all the valves. New valve stem seals and put everything back together. Hopefully I will be able to start bolting the engine back together soon. I need this thing running or close to it before mid September because the 2000 is going back to Salt Lake City area to stay.

txfatboy · Oct 18, 2014

Well, there has been a SLIGHT change of plans. I have decided to put the 1052 build on hold (temporarily) and have proceeded with the stock cylinders/pistons/rods. The reassembly is pretty straight forward with the exception of some oil system mods. These are well documented and are more of a "might as well since its already apart" thing. I took the main oil feed pipe and removed the overhang/restriction at both ends inside the tube, enlarged the main oil passage inside the plate that feeds oil from the filter to the main pipe, and shortened the oil filter bolt to prevent a partial blockage of the now larger oil passage.
I have another complete bike build to do after I finish this one. This one will be optimized for single rider and the other will be set up biased for 2-up. Doing it this way, I will have a dependable stock engine and a spare bike to "play with". It has always been my intention to swap a ZRX 1200 into the "90 anyway and have the 1052 in the 2-up bike.

txfatboy · Oct 26, 2014

Getting soooo close. I installed the 2min. mod jet kit, new float needles from Murph and set the float levels on all the carbs. I also got the exhaust cam gear from Steve and installed it as well. Then The star springs went on and the side cover was installed. The engine is finally ready to install. Hopefully the engine will be bolted in before the end of the week. If things progress smoothly and the rest of the parts arrive quickly, I'm hoping to have a running/rideable Concours in less than 3 weeks.

smooooth · Oct 26, 2014

You're doing great!!!!!

Stephen

txfatboy · Oct 27, 2014

Thanks Stephen. I know you've been through this a few times as well. We were a little slow at work today so I managed to get the engine up in the frame. I've got a long way to go, but it basically will only take as long as it takes to get the remaining parts. I actually took a couple of pictures this time.

smooooth · Oct 27, 2014

You have reached that wonderful point in a build where you realize you have stopped taking stuff off and have begun to put stuff back on......

:beerchug:

Stephen

connie_rider · Oct 27, 2014

WillyP said:
AirMonger said:

And I thought the single pot was prone to locking up! Your gonna be in the Motard class now . Whahoooooooo

Click to expand...

I remember way back someone had used a front duel pot caliper on the rear, and reported that it was actually less likely to lock, as the duel pot gave better control over the braking pressure. Makes sense, because, per given travel of the foot pedal, you are still pushing the same volume of fluid into the caliper, but with a larger piston area, the pad will move less distance. Or in other words, that 'point of lock-up' will be spread over a slightly longer pedal travel, giving finer control.

Jim Snyder did that install.

He Lives up in your area I think.
Ride safe, Ted

txfatboy · Nov 5, 2014

Things are coming along nicely. I cleaned up the inlet of the header pipes to remove the large weld bead and then installed the header with new sealing rings. Then I was able to install the radiator/oil cooler assembly and all the new hoses and water pump. Then the shifter assembly went on. I have also removed the swing arm to install the drive shaft and have decided to replace it with a new piece.

connie_rider · Nov 6, 2014

Woody, looks great!
A few quick questions:
I see you cut the weld humps out of your head pipes.
Did you match the inlet diameters to your exhaust gaskets?
Did you also cut the exhaust ports to match?

(I'm sending you a 1052 PM).

Ride safe, Ted

txfatboy · Nov 6, 2014

Thanks Ted. I did not match the pipe flange exactly to each exhaust port. The pipe flange is already much larger than the exhaust port opening. The biggest restriction is the huge weld bead just inside the inlet for the header. It really narrows the opening down. My main goal was just to smooth the transition from the port to the pipe to reduce turbulence. If you look at the inlet flange for the header, you can see that the work I did is more oval shaped than round and it is biased more to the top of the opening. That is so it more closely matches the port openings but in no way is "gasket matched".

mcfly · Nov 6, 2014

This is where it gets difficult.... it starts looking like a motorcycle, but it isn't yet!!

It's really coming along nicely, keep up the great work! :beerchug:

txfatboy · Nov 6, 2014

Well.... look what was waiting for me when I got home. A new AGM battery, throttle cables, handle bars, and lastly the new drive shaft from Murph (THANKYOU Gary). I now have everything to finish putting the bike back together. I'm gonna be worthless at work tomorrow.......

)

txfatboy · Nov 8, 2014

Mcfly said:
This is where it gets difficult.... it starts looking like a motorcycle, but it isn't yet!!

It's really coming along nicely, keep up the great work! :beerchug:

Yeah no kidding. I am soooo close and yet there is a ton of stuff to do yet. I've been trying to change/improve stuff as I go along and it consumes a huge amount of time. A little more progress made on the Concours. The new drive shaft is installed and all the rear suspension is bolted back up. The new handle bars are installed and I have fabricated the mount for the HID ballast. It is double isolated with anti vibration bushings and the system is wired up as well. If I go to the shop tomorrow I will finalize the rear wheel install and possibly get the carbs bolted in. There is a good chance I will be done by next weekend....... just in time for that arctic blast that's coming......

txfatboy · Nov 9, 2014

Really getting close now. After having the rear wheel rebalanced, it is finally bolted on. After reinforcing the air filter box, it and the carbs were installed with new throttle cables. All that remains to make it run is to make a new wiring harness for the stick coil conversion, bolt on the new fuel petcock, and put some gas in the tank. I have already spun the engine over until the oil pressure light went out. Hopefully, I will attempt to start it Monday or Tuesday.........

connie_rider · Nov 11, 2014

GREAT!
Keep us posted on the progress.
It's a shame about the Artic blast timing!

Ride safe, Ted

txfatboy · Nov 11, 2014

Okay, here it is. 6 years ago this engine.... well some of this engine, lost oil pressure while riding to work. Initial inspection found lots of shiny metal flake in the oil. The low mileage donor engine from a 86 turned out to have a bent rod. Sooooo parts from this engine, parts from that engine, some new rod bearings and other bits..... and it runs again. No odd noises, no drips, idles smooth. I really can't be happier. Well, maybe when I actually get to RIDE it. :motonoises:

http://s375.photobucket.com/user/txfatboy1/media/20141111_130610_zpscxcq0q9r.mp4.html

armstrong750 · Nov 11, 2014

Hey hey!! Nice work, Woody! You said you'd have it running today, and you did it. Now, hurry up and wait for the weather to warm up.

txfatboy · Nov 12, 2014

Thanks David. Man, it has been a long time coming. The only thing remaining on this bike that is from the factory original is the frame and the body panels. Nothing mechanical is the same as when it left the factory. Today it moved under its own power for the first time in 6 years. It was only a few feet, but the clutch was smooth, the transmission went into gear, the brakes are firm, and the side stand switch worked. Also confirmed the neutral switch and clutch switch function properly. I will do a couple of laps around the parking lot tomorrow and do another nut/bolt/leak check. I won't put the fairings back on until I have ridden it for a few days.

txfatboy · Nov 15, 2014

The weather report said it was going to be above 40 degrees F today sooooooo I need to try out my new heated gloves..... oh and my new front suspension, new 17 inch wheels, new bigger brakes, engine,...etc. :motonoises: First impressions are really good so far. Of course I wasn't able to actually enjoy much of the 18 miles because I was in hyper awareness mode listening for any odd noises, checking for bad smells, and paying attention to the overall feel of the bike. I does turn in really quick. The brakes are new so I'm still in the process of bedding them in, the tires are new so no pushing the limits until they get a few more miles on them, and the engine is freshly reassembled so just not wanting to press my luck just yet. I will say, with the only significant difference being the opening of the exhaust header flange this bike has a noticeable performance improvement over the 2000. It is much more responsive to throttle input and pulls in high gear a slow speeds with much more authority. It MAY be just because it's "new again" but it feels quicker. I've also got to learn how to adjust the zx9 inverted forks because it feels like ALL the adjustments are on full stiff.

The lower panels will go back on when I am satisfied with the mechanicals.
I also can't thank everyone that provided parts, technical info, and advise enough. This bike would not have happened without someone else experimenting first and being gracious enough to share their knowledge. :great:

mmolohon · Nov 16, 2014

Congrats, well done.

Mo

txfatboy · Nov 16, 2014

Thanks Mo. It was a fun project and I am lucky that I have the ability and the facilities to take on a project like this. It really means a lot to me because this bike was given to me by my Father as a way to get me BACK on two wheels. I had been off for almost 10 years and we were able to do our first long distance ride together. There is a lot of value in this bike that will never add up to $$$$.

BTW, My Dad is a retired msgt USAF. He retired from Fort Gordon, Ga. in 1987.

mmolohon · Nov 18, 2014

It's funny Woody, that's when I joined the AF. Please tell him thank you for his service and cherish the time you get with him on the bike. I know when my dad was alive, some of the fondest memories were the motorcycle trips we took.

Mo

txfatboy · Nov 24, 2014

Okay, just thought I would post up a couple of pictures of the clearance between the Mean streak rear caliper and the right side saddle bag. As I said before, My reason for mounting the Mean streak wheel WITHOUT machining it was more of a "what if" reason than anything else. "If" the rear wheel gets damaged to the point of needing replacement while traveling, all I have to do is find a stock Mean streak wheel and bolt it on. No machine shop needed. If I understand correctly, the reason for machining the wheel is to ultimately provide more clearance between the right saddle bag and the Connie rear caliper. There is about an inch of clearance between the caliper and the bag in the pictures. Also, the rear brakes are easy to modulate and don't seem to be any more prone to lock-up than the factory Connie brakes. I in no way claim this is better/easier/cheaper/etc. than having the wheel machined, just a different way.

txfatboy · Nov 24, 2014

And she is done. All dressed up and ready to ride. Still need a few little things, bar end weights, paint the front fender to match, zzr1200 alternator,..... you know, little things..... Mounted the aux HID zenon lights to the hywy pegs and wired them so that I can switch them off/on independently from each other, added a separate ground wire from the engine block to one of the tabs for the stock coils. I parked the bike outside today and got several complements for how good it looked for being a 1991 year model bike. ;D

connie_rider · Nov 25, 2014

So, have you done a twisty ride yet?
How does she handle?

Ride safe, Ted

gfinca · Nov 25, 2014

Looks great :great: :beerchug: What front fender did you use? Let me know if you need info on adjusting the front end.

Steve in sunny Fla · Nov 25, 2014

That's a super sharp bike there, woody. I think it might actually be convincing me to do a modern front end on Shoodaben. >

Steve

gfinca · Nov 25, 2014

Steve in Sunny Fla said:
That's a super sharp bike there, woody. I think it might actually be convincing me to do a modern front end on Shoodaben. > Steve

You know you want to Steve >

Steve in sunny Fla · Nov 25, 2014

GF-in-CA said:
You know you want to Steve >

I think I've said that before, but there was always a female name at the end of it

Steve

txfatboy · Nov 25, 2014

connie_rider said:
So, have you done a twisty ride yet?
How does she handle?

Ride safe, Ted

Ted, unfortunately today is just the 3 day I have actually been able to ride it and that has been back and forth to work. I haven't had the opportunity to wear the "new" off of the tires yet. Plus its been 40* F or colder (33*F this morning) when I get on the bike the last couple of days. Soooooo, no, no spirited riding yet. I'm also working on getting the forks dialed in. These inverted forks are VERY sensitive to adjustments. I also think the right fork has a problem that needs to be addressed. There is a "knock" that can be felt and heard when holding the front brakes and compressing the suspension. I'm not fluent in this suspension set-up, but I don't think its normal.

txfatboy · Nov 25, 2014

GF-in-CA said:
Looks great :great: :beerchug: What front fender did you use? Let me know if you need info on adjusting the front end.

Thanks Gary. IIRC, the front fender is from a zx7...... 94-95 maybe? I had to drill 2 mounting holes to make it work. I just didn't like the way the 94-95 zx9 front fenders looked. This one looked closer to the Connie front fender. It is red, but not the same color and I want to put a fenda extenda on it if there is one available. Oh, and I would love some help with setting up the front end. Keep in mind, I'm in the mid 250's weight wise. I think I am going to have to pull the forks and service them. I threw caution to the wind and just bolted them up without checking on the internals. The right fork has a "knock" that can be felt and heard. Do you by chance know what fluid and how much goes in these forks? Thanks

txfatboy · Nov 25, 2014

Steve in Sunny Fla said:
That's a super sharp bike there, woody. I think it might actually be convincing me to do a modern front end on Shoodaben. > Steve

Thanks Steve. She is Purdy. The bike definitely handles better. The turn in is almost telepathic. The bike FEELS lighter. I'm also doing the same type of build on another Concours but this one will have a ZRX front end. Also, I can't tell you just how good this bike runs. I'm still fine tuning the foam but right now its pretty darn quick. I had a little open road today on the way in to work and just twisting the throttle in high gear and... wow, am I really going 110? really surprised me. I haven't checked the accuracy of the speedometer yet (comparing to GPS tomorrow morning) but still, this thing pulls. :great:

gfinca · Nov 25, 2014

txfatboy said:
GF-in-CA said:

Looks great :great: :beerchug: What front fender did you use? Let me know if you need info on adjusting the front end.

Click to expand...

Thanks Gary. IIRC, the front fender is from a zx7...... 94-95 maybe? I had to drill 2 mounting holes to make it work. I just didn't like the way the 94-95 zx9 front fenders looked. This one looked closer to the Connie front fender. It is red, but not the same color and I want to put a fenda extenda on it if there is one available. Oh, and I would love some help with setting up the front end. Keep in mind, I'm in the mid 250's weight wise. I think I am going to have to pull the forks and service them. I threw caution to the wind and just bolted them up without checking on the internals. The right fork has a "knock" that can be felt and heard. Do you by chance know what fluid and how much goes in these forks? Thanks

Woody, I think this may be the right Fenda Extenda:

http://www.amazon.com/1991-1993-KAWASAKI-ZX7-ZXR-Motorcycle-Extenda/dp/B002EAGOCC

I would recommend doing at least a service on the forks. The factory manual specifies 5W oil, which is the thinnest fork oil you can get. It wouldn't surprise me if someone unknowingly put some thicker oil in, and that may be why the forks seem so stiff. I also recommend making sure your fork tubes are aligned. I can give you details on a method to do that if you're interested.

The stock springs are a little under 1.0 kg/mm, but with your weight I would recommend upgrading to 1.1 kg/mm springs. I am lighter than you and wasn't able to get the sag in the preferred range with the stock springs. You will probably also need to add some preload at the spring spacer to get the right sag. I haven't found any springs stiffer than 1.1 kg/mm.

The factory oil level is 86 mm from the top with the springs out and fork compressed. You'll need to buy or make a tool to compress the spring in order to remove the top cap and the remove the spring.

The rebound damping adjustment is on the top of the fork and the compression adjustment is down near the axle. I have mine adjusted to full soft on both rebound and compression and I still need them to be a little softer. Since the fork oil is already as thin as it can be, I'll be doing a revalve this winter. With your weight you may find that the factory range is OK.

I found an online zx9 service manual here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/24572077/Kawasaki-ZX-9R-ZX900-B1-4-94-a-97-Service-Manual#

HTH, let me know if you need anything else. :great:

txfatboy · Nov 26, 2014

Thanks for the info Gary. The manual is just what I needed. Once I get the tools (or make them) I will pull the forks and service them.

txfatboy · Dec 4, 2014

Well, I'm still waiting on the fork oil I ordered. The new seals are here already. As soon as the oil gets here, I will pull the forks and take them apart. I also have been working on a rear shock combination and I am happy to say I rode it home tonight and it was sweet. This Concours (and the 2000) have always had a so-so ride as far as the rear shock is concerned. I had installed the ZZR1200 rear shock and it was an improvement but was a little soft (as some have pointed out), an issue made worse due to my 250lb weight. I saw where someone posted a question asking if the zx9 rear shock would fit. Since I was still looking for a solution I started to do some research. What I found was the 94-95 ZX9 rear shock is 13 3/4 inches long center of eye to center of eye. The stock air shock I removed was 13 inches. The ZX9 upper mount is the same as the ZZR1200 and required grinding on each side of the center bushing to fit in the Concours frame. The ZX9 lower mount is exactly the same as the ZZR1200. The 94-95 ZX9 shock has a remote reservoir. It also has separate compression and rebound adjustments just like the front forks. The factory installed rear spring is way too soft to be used on the Concours. I found a 95 ZX9 rear shock for a price I was willing to pay. I made sure the res. had no pressure and took the hose off of the shock and res. I drained the oil, flushed the inside of the shock and res. out, then added new 10 weight oil. Once the assembly was filled with oil I took the ZZR1200 spring and remote preload adjuster off and swapped them to the ZX9 shock. I turned the manual spanner adjusters all the way up to the top and modified the larger ring to allow the lock tab on the preload adjuster to lock in place. Then I put it all back together and installed it. I have temporarily pressurized the res. with 125 PSI shop air (specs I believe is 150 PSI nitrogen). The preload adjuster was set to 2, the rebound was set to 2, and the compression adjustment was 8 clicks out from full in. All I can say is the ride home was the smoothest, most composed I have ever experienced. There are a few places on the streets going home that have horrible washboard pavement. It honestly felt like the road had been repaved. It was great. Absolutely a compliment to the inverted forks, very balanced composed. I can't wait to see how it rides after I service the forks.

gfinca · Dec 5, 2014

That's great Woody, I was thinking about the ZX9 shock myself and it's good to see that you've confirmed that it will work :beerchug: The nice thing about that shock is that it is rebuild-able and there are other springs available for it, unlike the ZZR1200 shock. You've definitely got me thinking... >

Because of the slightly increased length, you may want to consider increasing the sag slightly to get the rear ride height closer to stock.

On the forks, Racetech recommends an oil level of 110 mm, quite a bit lower than stock, so you may want to initially try something between the two. That is what I plan to do in a few weeks when I service/ revalve mine.

txfatboy · Dec 6, 2014

Thanks for the fork info Gary. I finally got the 5 weight oil in today. I may go ahead and order some fork slider bushings and replace them while I have the forks apart. That may be the source of the "knocking" and loose feeling I'm getting. It is definitely coming from the forks.... I also might have a slightly bent slider on the left side. I forgot to post a picture of the shock res. and how I mounted it. It was great that the hose was long enough to allow me to mount it where the old shock adjustments were made. It kinda looks like it belongs there. I am also checking to see if there is going to be any benefit to modifying the ZZR or ZX9 lower rocker so that either will work with the Concours. They both look like they have a more aggressive ratio and may work better with the ZZR rear spring. If I can "massage" one and get it to work without having to buy a spring, great. I'll keep you posted. I think the ZX9 rear shock is going to work out great as a budget friendly option. It will require replacing the spring but I bought mine for $45.00 (+$20.00 shipping) and it came with the lower rocker, links, and all the bolts and bushings. There are a few on ebay for around $100.00 as well. I just decided to see if I could put the remote adjuster from the ZZR shock along with the spring on to the ZX9 shock and true to Ma Kaw, the parts went together (with some minor modifications) and now I have a rebuildable, TUNEABLE, rear shock with compression, rebound, and remote preload adjustment.... all for about $130.00 :great:
Oh, and about the "sag" adjustment..... well see the prior post referencing my 250lb weight.......

)

txfatboy · Dec 7, 2014

Look what showed up in the mail today..... Now I can let the wife know I want a set of grip warmers from Santa this year.....

txfatboy · Dec 14, 2014

On the way home a few days ago, the seeping right fork seal turned into gushing right fork seal. It was leaking so badly the oil was blowing back onto the right lower fairing. I acquired all the parts to rebuild the forks and using a downloaded zx9 manual (thanks again Gary) and a few home made tools I jumped in. The rebuild was fairly straightforward with the only issue being you're supposed to have 2 people to compress the fork spring and at the same time insert the temporary retainer (washer with a slot cut in it). I was by myself, so I figured out a way to get the job done.

txfatboy · Jan 10, 2016

Well it has been more than a year since my last post to this thread. The '91 was given a break for a while so that I could get that new bike feeling out of my system after purchasing the vmax...... I'm still waiting for that to happen.....

During the down time I decided to address a few issues I was having with the ZX9 inverted forks. After the swap, I found I could not stop the right fork from leaking. Both forks had small marks on the slider tubes but they didn't seem that bad.... I guess I was wrong. Also, the right fork always felt like it had a "knock" in it like something was loose. Even after new bushings and replacing the upper tube. And, last, I found only one solution to getting the forks set up for my weight, the bikes weight, and passenger and luggage weight. The cost to do so, along with most likely having to replace both slider tubes was not something I was prepared to do. The next choice for me was a complete swap to a ZRX front end that I had purchased for another project. I wanted to try the rubber isolated handle bars and I could purchase The race tech compression and rebound gold valves and correct rate springs right off of Amazon for a great price. I modified the upper triple clamp using Dan Bergman's example, installed the Race Tech valves and springs per the supplied instructions, the ZRXOA forum, and you tube. If the ZX9 forks made the bike better, the revalved ZRX forks went a couple notches up on that. The ride is very nice. The high speed dampening has been softened a bunch and the bike is very stable in the corners with no wobbling and very little nose dive under heavy braking. Amazing how good it can be. No doubt revalving the ZX9 forks would have improved their performance, but I wasn't ready to invest that much money.

Yamahawk · Aug 26, 2016

txfatboy said:
Well it has been more than a year since my last post to this thread. The '91 was given a break for a while so that I could get that new bike feeling out of my system after purchasing the vmax...... I'm still waiting for that to happen..... During the down time I decided to address a few issues I was having with the ZX9 inverted forks. After the swap, I found I could not stop the right fork from leaking. Both forks had small marks on the slider tubes but they didn't seem that bad.... I guess I was wrong. Also, the right fork always felt like it had a "knock" in it like something was loose. Even after new bushings and replacing the upper tube. And, last, I found only one solution to getting the forks set up for my weight, the bikes weight, and passenger and luggage weight. The cost to do so, along with most likely having to replace both slider tubes was not something I was prepared to do. The next choice for me was a complete swap to a ZRX front end that I had purchased for another project. I wanted to try the rubber isolated handle bars and I could purchase The race tech compression and rebound gold valves and correct rate springs right off of Amazon for a great price. I modified the upper triple clamp using Dan Bergman's example, installed the Race Tech valves and springs per the supplied instructions, the ZRXOA forum, and you tube. If the ZX9 forks made the bike better, the revalved ZRX forks went a couple notches up on that. The ride is very nice. The high speed dampening has been softened a bunch and the bike is very stable in the corners with no wobbling and very little nose dive under heavy braking. Amazing how good it can be. No doubt revalving the ZX9 forks would have improved their performance, but I wasn't ready to invest that much money.

I am going to use the ZX9 shock on my 2006 Concours, and was wondering what spring rate to use on it. If I can find a good used ZZR1200 shock to mate the remote preload adjuster also, I will do that, but I cannot find any info on proper spring rates for the ZG1000 Concours, or the spring rate on the ZZR1200. Any ideas? It is a 9" spring, and I could order one from Eibach or RaceTech, but it would be nice to find the correct spring rate to make the purchase. I am 190lb. and the Concours is about 675lb. , or perhaps closer to 700lb. loaded.
On the front forks, I am looking at having Matt Patton convert the front stock forks to GSXR600 cartridge fork internals, with a 1.1 Kg set of springs, with the 10 wt. for oil. That should get preload and rebound damping adjustability, with the compression set by the oil viscosity. Any thoughts on this type of conversion, to keep the stock forks with new cartridge internals and springs? Matt does excellent work, and the SV650 guys love his work, along with racers from all over. He did a set of Yamaha R3 forks for a fellow and he really liked the handling of his bike on the track.

connie_rider · Aug 26, 2016

Woody/Yamahawk, can you give me the shock lengths on the various shocks your discussing?
Add possibly the Spring Diamaters?

Some are talking about using a C-14 (and other) shocks.
If anyone has those numbers can you fill them in?

Reason I'm asking is I'm looking into a way to adjust ride height (after another shock is installed).
Some folks are a bit short on 1 end and want to keep stock height or lower the bike about 1"-2", "and" go to another shock.
(And do it on a budget without buying aftermarket)
Many are looking at used C-14 shocks as their readily available.
I'm looking to see if there is an easy mod that can be done to the stock links.
(My understanding is the Soupy Adjustable links won't work because the shocks are too wide to allow the adjustment).

Length Major Diameter near bottom
C-10 13" ??
ZX-9 13 3/4" ??
ZZR-1200 ?? ??
C-14 ?? ??
other ?? ??

NOTE: I have one of Norm Soucy's rockers on my C-10. (Lowered it 2")
That is an EZ way to adjust but (unfortunately)the rockers are no longer available.

Ride safe, Ted

txfatboy · Aug 27, 2016

Yamahawk, at your weight, if you ride solo, I would recommend trying the stock zzr1200 spring. In a previous post, I showed where I took a 1995 ZX9 shock and adapted the remote adjuster from a zzr1200 rear shock with the zzr1200 spring. The spring was just a little soft for me riding solo (I'm 250+) but may be just right for you. I don't know what the zzr spring rate is however.
As far as the combination of parts went, I removed the ZX9 spring, turned the spanners all the way up and locked them. The remote adjuster has a locator tab on the top that keeps it from rotating. I just trimmed a couple of the spanner tabs so that the tab on the remote adjuster would fit. Slide the remote adjuster on then the ZZR1200 spring. The spring has to be compressed slightly to get the lower retainer ring back on. The shock bolts on just like a ZZR1200 shock. I made a bracket to mount the remote preload adjuster on the left side and mounted the shock reservoir where the stock air shock adjuster was on the right side.
I have removed this combination so I can send it off to get it revalved and resprung for my wifes and my weight and expected luggage weight.

txfatboy · Aug 27, 2016

Ted, I will be at the shop tomorrow and will take some measurements of the hybrid shock. IIRC It's pretty close to the same size as the stock shock. Will let you know.

Yamahawk · Aug 28, 2016

Hi Woody, thanks for the info! I am going to try and do the same with the ZX9 shock, and it sounds like I won't have to buy anything else, just mate up the parts. Does the remote preload adjuster spin the top spanners after you lock them together? Or is there another threaded ring on the preload adjuster? Just curious, as to how it spins and adjusts the preload, I am sure when I get the ZZR1200 shock it will be a little more clear. I have read your previous posts about how it all went together, but hands on will be a little better for me to understand it, I think.
Charlie

connie_rider · Aug 28, 2016

I just got off the phone with Norm Soucy.
He thinks he still has about 8 of his 1 1/2" Lowering Rockers in stock.
He said he can make more if there is enough interest, and can make different heights.
(He now puts new bearings in all Lowering Rockers and sells them for $200)

I told him, that people would be interested in his Lowering Rockers because of installations of C-14 (or other) shocks.

We briefly discussed the use of Lowering Rockers and Longer shocks.

He estimated that a C-10 (with a C-14 shock {1" longer than stock} and his 1 1/2" Lowering Rocker), the bike would set 1/2" lower than stock.

Based on this;
Shock Length (eye to eye)
C-10 13"
ZX-9 13 3/4"
ZZR-1200 ??
C-14 14"
other ??

My guess is; (Someone check my math)
a C-10 (with a ZX-9 shock (3/4" longer than stock) and his 1 1/2" Lowering Rocker), the bike would set 3/4" lower than stock.
a C-10 (with a ZX-9 shock (3/4" longer than stock) and his 1 1/4" Lowering Rocker), the bike would set 1/2" lower than stock.
a C-10 (with a ZX-9 shock (3/4" longer than stock) and his 1" Lowering Rocker), the bike would set 1/4" lower than stock.
a C-10 (with a ZX-9 shock (3/4" longer than stock) and his 3/4" Lowering Rocker), the bike would set at stock height.
NOTE: Spring stiffness and preload would effect final height.

If this is of interest to anyone let me know, or give him a call.

Here is his up to date info: sanleonster@gmail.com
phone# (281) 339-1156
Ride safe, Ted

Yamahawk · Sep 26, 2016

connie_rider said:
Woody/Yamahawk, can you give me the shock lengths on the various shocks your discussing?
Add possibly the Spring Diamaters?

Some are talking about using a C-14 (and other) shocks.
If anyone has those numbers can you fill them in?

Reason I'm asking is I'm looking into a way to adjust ride height (after another shock is installed).
Some folks are a bit short on 1 end and want to keep stock height or lower the bike about 1"-2", "and" go to another shock.
(And do it on a budget without buying aftermarket)
Many are looking at used C-14 shocks as their readily available.
I'm looking to see if there is an easy mod that can be done to the stock links.
(My understanding is the Soupy Adjustable links won't work because the shocks are too wide to allow the adjustment).

Length Major Diameter near bottom
C-10 13" ??
ZX-9 13 3/4" ??
ZZR-1200 ?? ??
C-14 ?? ??
other ?? ??

NOTE: I have one of Norm Soucy's rockers on my C-10. (Lowered it 2")
That is an EZ way to adjust but (unfortunately)the rockers are no longer available.

Ride safe, Ted

Ted, the one without the spring is the ZZR1200, it is 13.25" - The ZX9 is 13.75", the tube diameter is 1.75" or 44.25mm.
Charlie

connie_rider · Oct 3, 2016

Thanks.
Here is all the info...

Shock Length (eye to eye)
C-10 13"
ZX-9 13 3/4"
ZZR-1200 13 1/4"
C-14 14"
other ??

From what I see, all in red would need a Lowering Link or a Lowering Rocker to adjust the height to match a stock C-10 shock?

NOTE: I see that some notes mentioned softening the suspension to match the height, but I wonder if that would cause other
problems?

Ride safe, Ted

Yamahawk · Oct 19, 2016

Well, I got the hybrid ZX9/ZZR1200 shock installed monday, and I have had a couple days to adjust it and get it close to where it should be... and here's what I think!
It is better than the stock shock, and rides at about the same height as the stocker, which means it is running out of travel sooner, as it is 3/4" longer than stock. I believe the spring really does need to be replaced with one of a higher spring rate, as it is sagging from the bike's weight, although it does lean a little more on the side stand. I think seat of the pants measurement would put it at about 1/4-1/2" higher than the stock shock, without my added weight, and that is with the preload adjuster set on about 4, and the compression damping on 5 turns out from full in, and the rebound also on 3. At these settings, it only feels like it is bottoming on hard bumps, like chuck holes. I believe that is because it has ran out of travel. Other than that, I think it is a great upgrade for the rear. Now, I will look into the front end... and GSXR600 cartridge installs.

Charlie

connie_rider · Oct 19, 2016

Woody/Yamahawk, I'm a rookie at this, and I'm trying to follow your reasoning.
I have in mind installing a different rear shock on mine. (C-14 shock)

From what I'm reading on Yamahawks set up; your using a 3/4" longer shock, with a softer spring, and adjusted the preload to adjust ride height?
Doesn't this indicate that your using a lot of sag to set ride height?
If so, I agree; your either bottoming out the shock travel or have spring bind/stack that is preventing all the shock travel on hard bumps.
and, I think this means your using about 1/2 of the shocks travel while riding. (The lower half)

Wouldn't it be better to use the original/stiffer spring and add a Lowering rocker or lowering link to set your ride height?
this would allow use of all of the original shocks travel, not just the lower half.
I think more useful shock travel would mean a better ride as stopping the wheel travel would not be as abrupt?

Ride safe, Ted

txfatboy · Oct 19, 2016

Ted, my reasoning for trying this combo in the first place was just that, see if the combination of parts will work together AND bolt onto the bike. It is a way to get a multi-adjustable rear shock that can be rebuilt, revalved, and resprung for far less money than an aftermarket shock with the same features. I never expected any of the combination to work as is on the Concours. The ZX9 rear rocker ratio is way different from the Concours. The ZZR spring is too soft for my 250+ and wife's more than 150+ and gear, and luggage weight. I just wanted to know if the parts went together and it bolted onto the bike. YES........ I now have a stock air shock back on so I can send the hybrid shock to be configured to fit my needs. THEN I expect it to be a great multi-adjustable rear shock for the money.

connie_rider · Oct 19, 2016

I agree with that Woody. Great idea...

But, If the shock is longer, you have to lower the bike somehow..
My question is aimed at the addition of a lowering Link or Rocker to set the height,
instead of softening the preload on the spring.

Am I missing something?

Ride safe, Ted

Yamahawk · Oct 20, 2016

connie_rider said:
Woody/Yamahawk, I'm a rookie at this, and I'm trying to follow your reasoning.
I have in mind installing a different rear shock on mine. (C-14 shock)
I think you will find that there is no stock shock from another bike which will work adequately without being re-valved/re-sprung, or in the case of the C14 shock, combined with a way to lower it back to the right ride height. Due to the ratio of the rocker, it may be anywhere from 2-4 times the difference in shock length to ride height ( 3/4" longer shock may be 1 1/2" to 3" depending on rocker ratio)

From what I'm reading on Yamahawks set up; your using a 3/4" longer shock, with a softer spring, and adjusted the preload to adjust ride height?
Doesn't this indicate that your using a lot of sag to set ride height?
Yes, Ted it worked out that way, necessarily, as I am experimenting with this hybrid initially to see what is needed to correct the deficiencies inherent in the combination of parts. I liked what Woody was doing with the adjustability of the different components, and will pull this shock soon and send it to Jamie Daugherty for him to re-spring and re-valve the shock for the correct weight of my bike and riding style. EDIT: Just talked to Jamie Daugherty, and he stated that he could adjust the length of the shock internally, so a lowering rocker/dog bones wouldn't be necessary. They change the geometry of the bike, and it ride also, which is always a negative.

If so, I agree; your either bottoming out the shock travel or have spring bind/stack that is preventing all the shock travel on hard bumps.
and, I think this means your using about 1/2 of the shocks travel while riding. (The lower half)
Absolutely! Which is my initial impression of the combo. Currently, I have a Mean Streak rear wheel with a 170/60-17 Conti Motion on it, and that has lowered the ride height by about 1/2" or more. When I get the shock sorted, it may or may not need the lowering rocker, as I am going to redo the front end also with GSXR600 cartridges and springs (1.1Kg.) I will know what might be needed as per lowering rocker, dog bones, etc. at that time.

Wouldn't it be better to use the original/stiffer spring and add a Lowering rocker or lowering link to set your ride height?
The Original spring from the Concours shock isn't an option... and the original spring from the ZX9 shock is way too light, the original spring from the ZZR1200 appears to be too light also but it is stiffer than the ZX9, as it has a lot of travel, just rocking the bike on the side stand makes it pogo up and down rather easily. So, the stiffer spring looks like the appropriate option.

this would allow use of all of the original shocks travel, not just the lower half.
I think more useful shock travel would mean a better ride as stopping the wheel travel would not be as abrupt?
YupYupYup

Ride safe, Ted

So, in essence, we will have a great shock eventually, which will allow a good ride, great adjustability, and far cheaper than an Ohlins or comparable performance aftermarket shock.
Charlie

connie_rider · Oct 20, 2016

Thanks Charlie.
That answered my questions perfectly.

My spare bike is a C-10.
I lowered the bike (with a rocker, and raised front forks) for Anette when she came over from Germany.
I intend to raise it again and was thinking I would leave the rocker and add a C-14 or ZX-9 shock while I was at it.

Sounds like your saying that might not be a good plan?

Ride safe, Ted

Yamahawk · Oct 20, 2016

Hi Ted,
The C14 shock isn't a bad shock, it is an OEM shock, though and you shouldn't expect too much from it. The ZX9 also is an OEM KYB shock, and according to the fellow I talked to this morning, it isn't the greatest shock in the barrel. It was so-so even new. Now that doesn't mean that it cannot be made into a great shock, but that entails new valving inside the body of the shock. Also, the length of the shock makes it alter the steering and suspension geometry of the bike. Again, the rocker ratio for most modern sport bikes is from 3.25:1 to 4:1 - which turns a 1" taller shock, as in the C14 shock, into 3.25" to 4" taller ride height. Even with a lowering rocker, this is a lot of additional ride height. Now, it is possible to shorten either shock internally, and this, along with a re-valve of the shock internals, would make either shock into a very nice performer. I assume that it also would have a new spring of the correct weight for your bike. This would cost around $300-$350 for the work to be done, on a quick estimate, which still would be well below a Nitro or Ohlins shock, which would be the equivalent of these shocks after upgrading them to work.
The lowering rocker alters the rate of the suspension, and that also may not be the best solution as the bike was designed to work in a certain parameter of suspension travel. So, in reality, your suspension should be ok, with the C14 and a lowering rocker, but it won't perform like the suspension is designed to, as the geometry will be different. The same with the ZX9 shock, but it would really need a new heavier spring to make it work adequately.Then the valving for rebound and compression wouldn't be up to the heavier spring. This is why it needs to be re-valved. There is a lot of technical aspects to the suspension of a modern sport tourer, and if the bike is to perform well, and I think that is what we all want, then it should be approached in the right thought towards it. Good luck with your endeavor, and let me know how the C14 shock works with the lowering rocker!
Charlie

connie_rider · Oct 20, 2016

Thank you.
I do see your point,
I am not arguing about ride improvement.
You know far more than I.
But you have something incorrect in your ride height calculation (compared to shock length).

You sed; Again, the rocker ratio for most modern sport bikes is from 3.25:1 to 4:1 - which turns a 1" taller shock, as in the C14 shock, into 3.25" to 4" taller ride height.

The shock your using is currently 13 3/4" tall.
A C-14 shock is 14" tall.
Only 1/4" taller.
You said yourself that your bike is about 1" - 2" taller than stock (before decreasing the spring preload).

I "do" think your correct about the 3.25:1 to 4:1 ratio at the hole where the Links are attached.
NOTE: Raising that (link) hole 5/8" lowers the bike 1 1/2" when using Norms Rocker.
The shock hole location is farther from the end of the rocker.
(it is more than 2x further than the Link hole)
So I think your more than doubling the height effect of lengthening the shock.

PS: Jim Snyder has a (??) rear shock on his bike and a 1 1/2" lowering rocker.
I am not sure which shock, I think ZZR-1200 (13 1/4" tall)
His bike sets approx. 1" lower than stock.

Ride safe, Ted

Yamahawk · Oct 21, 2016

The stock shock is only 13".... the C14 is 14"... 1" difference which would give a lot of ride height difference... I was referring to the stock length shock vs. what we are using. Jamie Daugherty states that there is no street bike that uses less than a 3:1 rocker ratio, but some dirt bikes use a 2:1. So, if our was around 3:1, it would give a 3" difference with the C14 shock, and 2 1/4" difference with the ZX9 shock... that's what I meant to say. If it was a 4:1 ratio, then we are talking 4" with the C14 (1" longer than stock) and 3" with the ZX9 (3/4" longer than stock).
Now, Jim's bike is using a shock which is 1/4" longer than stock, with a 1 1/2" lowering link which gives him 1" lower than stock. with the sag of his shock, I do believe this is still a 3:1 or so ratio, as his ZZR1200 shock would raise the bike by 3/4" with that ratio. Then the lowering rocker would subtract 1 1/2", for a 3/4" difference in ride height, coupled with the extra sag from the too light spring on the ZZR1200 shock. So, it may very well be a 1" lower than stock, or more, when these components are used. Now, when we are using a markedly longer shock like the C14 or ZX9, there is a correspondingly Longer difference, times 3.

connie_rider · Oct 21, 2016

Ok, I see your point, and your probably completely right.
I just can't get that into my head.

I do know your correct; the perfect way to do it is to have a shock that is the correct (original) height.

Ride safe, Ted

cog1986 · Oct 21, 2016

just to provide a real-life comment...

I have had the ZG-1400 shock on my 86 C10 for well over a year now. one or 2 up the bike is very stable and easy to operate including more frisky curves (no - I am not too crazy with this). earlier on this year I was asking about the powering link possibilities available - but that was not a ride quality based desire; it was a get it back to original height; get side stand angle more accurate; get the rear tire off the ground when on centre stand.

it rides just fine. and getting it onto the centre stand is a dream

>

Cal

connie_rider · Oct 21, 2016

I do know your correct that; the perfect way to do it is to have a shock that is the correct (original) height.
A also agree that lowering rockers/links can effect ride...

I see your point about the resultant height of installing a C-14 shock.
But (sorry) I can't get your height difference into my head.

Why I can't get it into my head.
** I am Not arguing, just discussing...

Important consideration;
The rocker is not "all" of the 3:1 ratio change.
The other rear suspension components (ie; pivot point locations) contribute to the 3:1 ratio.
** I am not considering spring sag in this explanation.

For Discussion;
There are 3 holes in the stock rocker. (Call them A, B, and C)
A-------B-------C
2.5" 2.5" (Total = 5.0")

Hole A is attached at the frame. (A = Front hole on rocker)
Hole B is 2.5" from hole A. (B = Center/Link hole on rocker)
Hole C is 5.0" from hole A, {or 2.5" from hole B}. (C = Rear/Shock hole on rocker)

With A being the pivot point, and C being 2.5" greater distance than B,
moving the location of hole C will have "approx." 1/2 the (height) effect of moving hole B.

fyi: Norm moves Hole B 5/8" {up} on his lowering Rocker.
(That 5/8" moves the wheel 1.5" {up})
{Which lowers the bike 1.5"}.
Using that (5/8" = 1.5"),
We can calculate; moving hole B 1" {up}, the wheel would move 2.4" {up}

Keep in mind that moving hole C has "approx." 1/2 the effect of moving hole B.

So, 1/2 the effect of moving hole B means, moving hole C {down} 1",
would move hole B 0.5" {down}.
would move the wheel 1.2" {down}
{Which would raise the bike 1.2"}.

Bottom line; If I'm correct;
* If you install just a C-14 Shock, the bike will set 1.2" taller.
** If you install a C-14 Shock "and" Norms 1 1/2" lowering rocker,
the wheel will move 0.3" {up}. {Which would lower the bike 0.3"}.
ie; 1.5" + (-1.2") = 0.3"

Geez, that was hard to explain.
Please do try to understand my gibberish/calculation's and let me know if my reasoning is way off base..
Mebbe Cal can tell us if his C-14 installation changed his height up 4" or 1.2"?

Ride safe, Ted

cog1986 · Oct 21, 2016

no actual comparison measurements available - I never took any prior to the swap of shock.

what it does appear to be like is thus...

- when on the centre stand it seems like closer to 4 inches travel must be taken (where previously rear tire was several inches off the ground it in now well planted on the ground)

- when riding I'd say it is closer to the 1.2 inch in rise from stock - or more (considering there was a lot of sag despite max air pressure in the C10 shock; little in any sag now)

I can be more scientific/specific if you have something you want measured (as long as I don't have to take it apart!)

Cal

connie_rider · Oct 22, 2016

Thanks Cal.
I suggest we settle this by "all" doing a basic measurement.

With bike on Center stand and wheel not touching the ground
Measure from the center of the axle to the center of the ~~rear~~ front antler bolt.
(Cal, you may have to put your center stand on a board to get the wheel off the ground).
PS: What rear tire do you have? Belted tires {in GW size} are larger dia. than stock.

This measurement would give us a number (at full extension) to compare.

Charlie: I'm not trying to argue.
Just want to know height of a C-10 with C-14 (or other) shock/rocker, before I buy a shock.
(The full extension measurement is the only way I know, to do a height comparison).

Mine measures 13 1/2" (from the axle to front antler bolt).
NOTE: Mine has been lowered 2".
Stock should be 15 1/2" (from the axle to front antler bolt).
(Can someone confirm that)?
Beaucephus is 15 3/8" (from the axle to front antler bolt).
(With C-14 shock and Norm's 1 1/2 lowering rocker)

Ride safe, Ted

connie_rider · Oct 28, 2016

I received a note from Beaucephus.
He installed a C-14 shock and Norms 1 1/2" lowering rocker.

He said that (With bike on Center stand and wheel not touching the ground) his measures 15 3/8".
(I think a stock Connie measures 15 1/2"). {someone please check that measurement}

Using the 15 1/2" as a reference: his bike is 1/8" lower than stock..
Without the 1 1/2 lowering rocker); his bike (with C-14 shock) would have been 16 7/8".
1 3/8" taller than stock.

He is adjusting sag now.

NOTE: The C-14 shock/1 1/2" rocker combination has caused a problem with his center stand coming down.
He'll fix that too.

PS: Sorry for stealing your discussion. I think I have the info I want now...

Ride safe, Ted

Yamahawk · Oct 30, 2016

Sounds good, Ted!
If you really want to know the suspension in and out, ask a professional, and he will tell you what you're wanting to know. I, however am not a professional, I just repeated what the fellow I talked to stated, and he Is a professional, and sets up shocks as his business. So, I suggest you talk to a competent person who knows what they are talking about. Jamie Daugherty is who I am going to have rework my ZX9/ZZR1200 hybrid, and he is suggesting that the shock be modified for length so that the geometry of the bike won't be affected.
Now, if you want to give the bike more sporting rake, then the rear being slightly taller would help that. I think that the bike would handle better with a little more rear height, and that isn't a bad thing unless your inseam won't tolerate it. I road race a couple bikes, (amateur), and had him set up a longer rear shock for my VTR250 Interceptor, and it handles really well. So, if your bike is where you want it to be, all is well. But, if it ends up too tall, for the price of a lowering link, you could have the shock length reworked, and have it the way it should be. Lowering rockers work, but they alter the geometry of your rear suspension, which isn't the best option. Now, if you have the shock re-valved and re-sprung, along with the correction in length, it will be more money than the lowering rocker, but then, you would have a 1st class shock that would do you very well, better than any stock shock repurposed for the Connie, on par with a very expensive aftermarket shock (which is an option too).
Take care,
Charlie

connie_rider · Oct 31, 2016

Thanks Charlie.
here's sorta how all of this started.
I lowered my spare bike for Anette (last years OtP Traveler) when she came over from Germany.
(by buying/installing a used lowering link) Now, the bike is too low for me, and I was going to put it back stock.
Being a bit altitude challenged I also lowered my C-14 (with a Muzzy Lowering Link) but not nearly as much.
(I like the new height. Can now ride {with the wife} and be comfortable holding us both up)

Anyway, I was considering re-raising the C-10, but not to full height and saw the discussion..
The discussion made me think it might be possible to just add a different shock while I was tinkering.
Without a lowering rocker the available shocks are all too tall for me.
(Since I already have the rocker installed), I was hoping some combination might work out.
{and} I was also hoping to develop some info for others.
I agree the shock mod is the better way to go.

I don't really want to spend the bigger dollars to buy a shock and then have it modified for my C-10 as it's a spare bike).

NOTE: Because of your info, in the future, I may contact Jamie about shortening and adjusting my C-14 shock to get an improved suspension.

Ride safe, Ted

Not so ultimate c-10 rebuild

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