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Sideswiped on the Highway

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This is why lane splitting is illegal in most or all states except for CA of course. Who pays for your and his damages? Whose fault is it? He was still in his lane when you hit him.
 
Umm, I didn't hit her. She was moving from the #1 lane into the #2 lane (without a turn signal I might add) and hit me. You'll notice that I was already past her rear bumper when she came over trying to enter the "open" space in lane #2. Lane splitting is fine when done correctly, which is what I was doing, it's the cagers who aren't paying attention that are a major cause of accidents. Fault is totally with the cager in this case (CHP Officer even said so), and her insurance company will pay for damages to her car and my bike.
 
Interesting. I thought she had the blinker on. Maybe it was a reflection. Anyway, at the time of collision we don't know if she was moving to lane #2 or just shifting more right in her lane space, just like the van behind her moved left on his lane space.

But she was nonetheless within her right to move laterally in her lane before you encroached on her lateral space. You saw her shift right long before but you still tried to pass her. I am quite sure a sound argument can be made in court. I still contend you hit her. It is your responsibility to make sure you can pass her safely before attempting the maneuver.

But we can agree to disagree here.
 
Lane splitting is awesome! But there is a way to it too.

I believe you are not at fault (not blaming you by any means), but you are responsible. This means maybe next time u r lane splitting, go a bit slower, so it gives you time to read the tires and hit the brakes if you have to.

I'm saying this because recently a GMC sierra decided to make a left turn right in front of me, when i thought it had seen me. It didn't. The cager was at fault in this case too, but I was responsible as well. I assumed I had been seen, and I wasn't. Just like you I swerved but clipped the rear bumper corner, and the right side of my fairings got messed up, even though I also didn't fall.

I'm glad you are okay!
 
DC Concours said:
Interesting. I thought she had the blinker on. Maybe it was a reflection. Anyway, at the time of collision we don't know if she was moving to lane #2 or just shifting more right in her lane space, just like the van behind her moved left on his lane space.

But she was nonetheless within her right to move laterally in her lane before you encroached on her lateral space. You saw her shift right long before but you still tried to pass her. I am quite sure a sound argument can be made in court. I still contend you hit her. It is your responsibility to make sure you can pass her safely before attempting the maneuver.

But we can agree to disagree here.
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It's all good. Just a few things to correct:
1. Her turn signal was not on, it was her brake lights.
2. You'll notice the truck moved to the left while she made her move to the right
3. You do not proceed into another lane without identifying that it's clear to do so.
4. The comment about me "encroaching in her space" makes no sense considering that I was filtering at a reasonable speed and would have had to lock up the brakes to prevent a collision.
5. Yes, it's my responsibility to ensure that I can pass her (cars) safely; I was responsible & was passing safely (was filtering for at least 10 miles before the incident) until she tried to make the move
6. She would lose the court argument because she told the police officer she was changing lanes and didn't see me.
 
Jerdurr said:
Lane splitting is awesome! But there is a way to it too.

I believe you are not at fault (not blaming you by any means), but you are responsible. This means maybe next time u r lane splitting, go a bit slower, so it gives you time to read the tires and hit the brakes if you have to.

I'm saying this because recently a GMC sierra decided to make a left turn right in front of me, when i thought it had seen me. It didn't. The cager was at fault in this case too, but I was responsible as well. I assumed I had been seen, and I wasn't. Just like you I swerved but clipped the rear bumper corner, and the right side of my fairings got messed up, even though I also didn't fall.

I'm glad you are okay!
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Thanks, was a pucker moment for sure
 
It is good you are unhurt and that she will take care of your damages. It could have been much worse. In VA/DC/MD area this can be upto a reckless driving charge and stays on record for 11 years. As it should be.

Lesson for all here is:

- Do not lane split. It is not a good practise.
- There is a reason only 1 out of 50 states made it legal to split lanes. CA is known for stoners and hippies not smart lawmakers (partly joking).
- If there is an accident while lane splitting it is always the fault of the biker because he has crossed into your lateral space when it was not safe to do so.
- Never admit to anything at the scene. Ony insist that it was the fault of the reckless biker unprepared for the maneuver.



 
This vid and the comments is/are most interesting. Would assume the speed the bike was moving relative to traffic and the way blind spots of vehicles were being aggressively approached, that being done so negeliently, this all was disaster waiting to happen. It defies common sense and any education on defensive driving I have known among riders in my 65 years.

Care not for laws that would get one killed. Care not for arguments that could get one killed. Care not for lame excuses on who was right and who wrong. Yes by all means keep doing what was exhibited here in this vid. It is a free country. It is one's right to live and die by one's own words and actions.

Me, I just pray you do not take some innocent with you. A 1000 lb projectile into a cage with a child would do little for our cause of freedom or our right to ride as we see fit. With this great freedom comes greater responsibility they say. Apparently many need reminding of such still in this day. Had the officer's wife or daughter  been in the cage and he viewed the vid, doubt he would side with your right of way at all.
 
There are times when I'd like to lane split, but even if Washington state ever legalizes it, I think I'll pass.

This is the same issue I have with those who feel the safest way to ride, is to constantly pass other vehicles at 10 mph or faster.  Every couple seconds you come up on another vehicle, and you enter their blind spot.  They could've checked to see if the lane was open a second before when you moved into their blind spot.  In their mind, they checked...it was clear...and so they moved over...into you.  And now the motorcycle rider feels it was the car driver's fault.  To me, it is not safe.

The other thing I noticed when I went to California for my daughter's wedding, is none of the motorcyclists can tell if the driver is an out of state driver in a rental vehicle.  I was driving an Urban Assault Vehicle, commonly known as a Chevy Suburban.  It was huge.  It gave up nothing for width to a semi and filled virtually all the lane.  I was driving along like I normally do in the Seattle area, centered in the lane.  A biker passed, splitting the lanes, and I realized it was only luck that kept me from hitting them.  It wouldn't be that I was intentionally trying to impede their progress...only that I was driving like I have for countless miles in my lifetime up till then.  And I was driving a vehicle that I wasn't used to on unfamiliar roads in heavy traffic...and since it had California license plates, that rider had no idea that I wouldn't necessarily drive like I was "supposed" to.

Chris
 
FTB530 said:
Yep there isn’t  any amount of time saving that makes lane splitting worth the risk for me !
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To each his own. Been riding in SoCal traffic on surface street and freeway for 25+ years (off-duty and on); haven't had an issue I didn't forsee in all that time. Requires focus and discipline.. not everyone can or wants to maintain that level of awareness.
 
My understanding is that lane splitters are far less likely to be seriously injured in an accident than if they were not splitting. The video showed that somewhat.  Probably because they're rarely going over 25-30.  I believe the left-laners are required to stay to the far left of the lane to accomodate filtering.  Is that correct?
 
Vic said:
FTB530 said:
Yep there isn’t  any amount of time saving that makes lane splitting worth the risk for me !
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To each his own. Been riding in SoCal traffic on surface street and freeway for 25+ years (off-duty and on); haven't had an issue I didn't forsee in all that time. Requires focus and discipline.. not everyone can or wants to maintain that level of awareness.
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I have attempted to split lanes twice in many years of riding inCalifornia and I was very aware that when people saw me they seemed to want to hug the center line more , yea no thanks!
 
@Lee...from the video you seem to think that I'm aggressively and negligently approaching the car? Amazing, considering you weren't there, I slowed down even more because of the number of cars and you OBVIOUSLY don't see that she has moved into the lane without checking for oncoming traffic, let alone use a turn signal. Would you make the same argument if she hit a car vice my bike? And by the way, the officer has the video. A few more things, she admitted to changing lanes, the witnesses also told the police she moved into the lane, they also told the police that I wasn't aggressively and negligently approaching traffic while lane splitting.

@DC Concours…you are correct, it could have been worse. End of the day, I'm alive and get to ride some more. I'm still not seeing where this is reckless? No turn signal, no check to see if its safe to move into another lane, yet the motorcyclist is to blame? How's that? Lane splitting is good practice, if you lived out here 24/7 you'd know that a majority of the time, accidents between cars and motorcycles it is the fault of the cager. Maybe its different in VA/MD/DC.

@Daboo...a majority of cagers will pull over and give you wide birth to get by, it's the courteous thing to do and very much appreciated.

@Vic...totally agree with you.

@Talcon...most left laners do pullover to the far left to accommodate riders while filtering. What you have to watch out for is the cager that makes a sudden move to get into another lane. I was earlier accused of aggressive and negligent riding as I didn't anticipate the cager moving into another lane as well as not signaling her intentions. I guess I should have been a mind reader to figure that one out.

@FTB530...as I just mentioned, a majority of folks will pull to the left and give you space. I of course give them the wave to say thank you.
 
That's really backwards. Lane sharing is much safer than waiting in the kill zone to get smashed. That's why it's legal in nearly every country in the world. Maybe you're uncomfortable with it, but saying it's not safe is demonstrably false according to all available studies. Lane sharing reduces fatalities, period.
 
I might be wrong, but the last I knew it is not legal to split lanes. It is just not illegal to share lanes in CA. You the motorcycle still has to signal your lane changes and have full responsibility for sharing safely. Kind of a get out of jail free card for the car. If you are in your own lane it is one thing but if you are overtaking in their lane it is something else. We are hard enough to see when we are out in the open. How do you expect someone to see you in their blind spot. If there is an open spot in the lane next to them you have to expect them to move into it.
 
Daboo said:
There are times when I'd like to lane split, but even if Washington state ever legalizes it, I think I'll pass.

This is the same issue I have with those who feel the safest way to ride, is to constantly pass other vehicles at 10 mph or faster.  Every couple seconds you come up on another vehicle, and you enter their blind spot.  They could've checked to see if the lane was open a second before when you moved into their blind spot.  In their mind, they checked...it was clear...and so they moved over...into you.  And now the motorcycle rider feels it was the car driver's fault.  To me, it is not safe.

The other thing I noticed when I went to California for my daughter's wedding, is none of the motorcyclists can tell if the driver is an out of state driver in a rental vehicle.  I was driving an Urban Assault Vehicle, commonly known as a Chevy Suburban.  It was huge.  It gave up nothing for width to a semi and filled virtually all the lane.  I was driving along like I normally do in the Seattle area, centered in the lane.  A biker passed, splitting the lanes, and I realized it was only luck that kept me from hitting them.  It wouldn't be that I was intentionally trying to impede their progress...only that I was driving like I have for countless miles in my lifetime up till then.  And I was driving a vehicle that I wasn't used to on unfamiliar roads in heavy traffic...and since it had California license plates, that rider had no idea that I wouldn't necessarily drive like I was "supposed" to.

Chris
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Park your big car (safely) in a lane sometime and get out and measure the lane, have you ever done this? My 3/4 ton 4x4 diesel pickup is 72" from outside tire edge to outside tire edge. Interstate lanes are required to be 12 feet wide. If you are in the middle of your lane, that means there are 3 feet on either side of you. I think most people have average to poor proprioception and are generally unaware or just uninterested in the facts of road travel and construction. I can fit 2 of my pickup in one lane of an interstate highway, not including the 7' mandatory shoulder which in most cases is also available. Folks who think there's insufficient room on a highway for safe filtering are just incorrect.
 
JPD said:
I might be wrong, but the last I knew it is not legal to split lanes. It is just not illegal to share lanes in CA. You the motorcycle still has to signal your lane changes and have full responsibility for sharing safely. Kind of a get out of jail free card for the car. If you are in your own lane it is one thing but if you are overtaking in their lane it is something else. We are hard enough to see when we are out in the open. How do you expect someone to see you in their blind spot. If there is an open spot in the lane next to them you have to expect them to move into it.
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Yep, you're wrong, they codified it in August 2016. Utah has also codified lane sharing and its been very close to getting out of transportation committee in Oregon the last 3 sessions.
 
What you, the officer and the idiot witness fail to see is that she did not hit you in another lane. She was still inside her lane-- inside her lane's white markings when you hit her. Whether she was "intending" to cross over to the right lane is non-consequential; at the moment of impact she was still in her lane and you encroached on her laterally and hit her. She doesn't have to have the blinker on or give you the right of way for her reasonably shifting within the boundaries of her lane (between the white lane markings). There could be a pothole in the lane that can make a person shift slightly within their lanes. It is you who has to make sure it is safe to encroach on her before you split. She was already shifting over to the right when you unsuccessfully decided to pass within her lane boundary. You should have braked. And if you had to lock up the brakes to prevent the collision then you were also speeding.

A man intends to commit suicide and jumps off the top of a 20 story apartment building. On his way down at the 10th floor he is shot through the window by a tenant whose gun accidentally goes off. What do you think happened here? 

The tenant is charged with negligent homicide/manslaughter even though the falling man was going to die anyway.

That poor lady, too shocked to know she was completely not at fault. If you hit my car in a similar situation I would be having so much fun with you and the ill informed officer in court, it'd make my day.
 
DC Concours said:
What you, the officer and the idiot witness fail to see is that she did not hit you in another lane. She was still inside her lane-- inside her lane's white markings when you hit her. Whether she was "intending" to cross over to the right lane is non-consequential; at the moment of impact she was still in her lane and you encroached on her laterally and hit her. She doesn't have to have the blinker on or give you the right of way for her reasonably shifting within the boundaries of her lane (between the white lane markings). There could be a pothole in the lane that can make a person shift slightly within their lanes. It is you who has to make sure it is safe to encroach on her before you split. She was already shifting over to the right when you unsuccessfully decided to pass within her lane boundary. You should have braked. And if you had to lock up the brakes to prevent the collision then you were also speeding.

A man intends to commit suicide and jumps off the top of a 20 story apartment building. On his way down at the 10th floor he is shot through the window by a tenant whose gun accidentally goes off. What do you think happened here? 

The tenant is charged with negligent homicide/manslaughter even though the falling man was going to die anyway.

That poor lady, too shocked to know she was completely not at fault. If you hit my car in a similar situation I would be having so much fun with you and the ill informed officer in court, it'd make my day.
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I can't believe there are motorcyclists so misinformed on the legalities and benefits of filtering. Several comments on here just have me flummoxed, why are you so angry and so invested in something that doesn't affect you on the East Coast? You should read the studies on lane sharing, it's a practice beneficial to safety, congestion reduction and reducing emissions from idling vehicles. You seem like a real territorial person, we're all just trying to get where we're going safely.
 
This is exactly why the forum is so freakin annoying!!!!

Regardless of whether you think it's legal, illegal, careless, reckless, negligent, irresponsible, or whatever...can't we join the thread and debate without the JABS?

This is a fellow COGger that had an incident that (if we're wise) we should all learn from, even if you don't live in Cal.

Jabs are juvenile!
 
HeavyRotation said:
I can't believe there are motorcyclists so misinformed on the legalities and benefits of filtering. Several comments on here just have me flummoxed, why are you so angry and so invested in something that doesn't affect you on the East Coast? You should read the studies on lane sharing, it's a practice beneficial to safety, congestion reduction and reducing emissions from idling vehicles. You seem like a real territorial person, we're all just trying to get where we're going safely.
Click to expand...

If lane splitting is so great then tell me why it's illegal and/or left up in air in 49 states? Have they not studied the papers?

I know. These east coast new englanders have this better than thou attitude. I try and tamp it whenever I can. But what can I say...we are just built like that. Not angry. Just comes out as such.
 
HeavyRotation said:
Park your big car (safely) in a lane sometime and get out and measure the lane, have you ever done this? My 3/4 ton 4x4 diesel pickup is 72" from outside tire edge to outside tire edge. Interstate lanes are required to be 12 feet wide. If you are in the middle of your lane, that means there are 3 feet on either side of you. I think most people have average to poor proprioception and are generally unaware or just uninterested in the facts of road travel and construction. I can fit 2 of my pickup in one lane of an interstate highway, not including the 7' mandatory shoulder which in most cases is also available. Folks who think there's insufficient room on a highway for safe filtering are just incorrect.
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I totally agree with you.  :)  My "problem" is that I center myself in the lane as I've done for who knows how many miles...a million?  Fifty-one years, anyway.  So unless I kept reminding myself to move to one side or the other, I'd find myself right where I always am...in the center of the lane.  Just because I'm driving in California for the first time ever, doesn't mean I'm fitting into the mold of everyone else who lives there.

And at home, I'm normally riding a motorcycle or driving a Subaru Outback...not the biggest car on the road.

So my point was that as a motorcylist who splits lanes...you are expecting me to act like the thousands of other motorists on the road.  If I had Washington license plates, that might clue you in to be a bit more wary of me.  I might do something unexpected.  And I'm not even looking for you.  But with a rental vehicle with California plates, you have no idea that I'm not familiar with the customs of California drivers.

You can say I should know better.  That's like Monday Morning Quarterbacking.  Just judging from the responses to this thread, I'd say most of the non-California drivers wouldn't be any different.

Chris
 
DC Concours said:
What you, the officer and the idiot witness fail to see is that she did not hit you in another lane. She was still inside her lane-- inside her lane's white markings when you hit her. Whether she was "intending" to cross over to the right lane is non-consequential; at the moment of impact she was still in her lane and you encroached on her laterally and hit her. She doesn't have to have the blinker on or give you the right of way for her reasonably shifting within the boundaries of her lane (between the white lane markings). There could be a pothole in the lane that can make a person shift slightly within their lanes. It is you who has to make sure it is safe to encroach on her before you split. She was already shifting over to the right when you unsuccessfully decided to pass within her lane boundary. You should have braked. And if you had to lock up the brakes to prevent the collision then you were also speeding.

A man intends to commit suicide and jumps off the top of a 20 story apartment building. On his way down at the 10th floor he is shot through the window by a tenant whose gun accidentally goes off. What do you think happened here? 

The tenant is charged with negligent homicide/manslaughter even though the falling man was going to die anyway.

That poor lady, too shocked to know she was completely not at fault. If you hit my car in a similar situation I would be having so much fun with you and the ill informed officer in court, it'd make my day.
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Your continued support of the person in the car shows that you are totally misinformed, obviously don't know the rules of the road in California, most likely don't commute everyday on a motorcycle, know nothing about filtering/lane splitting but yet want to make a snap decision about the police officer, witness and myself...all of this from 3000 miles away. Hmmm, and guaranteed you'd lose in court.
 
DC Concours said:
HeavyRotation said:
I can't believe there are motorcyclists so misinformed on the legalities and benefits of filtering. Several comments on here just have me flummoxed, why are you so angry and so invested in something that doesn't affect you on the East Coast? You should read the studies on lane sharing, it's a practice beneficial to safety, congestion reduction and reducing emissions from idling vehicles. You seem like a real territorial person, we're all just trying to get where we're going safely.
Click to expand...

If lane splitting is so great then tell me why it's illegal and/or left up in air in 49 states? Have they not studied the papers?

I know. These east coast new englanders have this better than thou attitude. I try and tamp it whenever I can. But what can I say...we are just built like that. Not angry. Just comes out as such.
Click to expand...

Oh and I was born and raised on the east coast, but don't have the "holier than thou" or as you say "better than thou" attitude you so boastfully espouse here on the forum. And for your information, other States (namely Utah) are beginning to allow lane filtering somewhat similar to what we have here in California.
 
I commuted and split lanes for a few years in Ca. on my 550 four . Had alot of close calls . I'm not sure I'd do it on this fat bike . I recall folks opening up the lane for me on the 91 . One thing to remember though is not all drivers have been driving those freeways for years and do not expect to see bikes doing this . Here in Texas you wouldn't last one commute lane splitting . Was she from Texas ? 😀
 
spartan1984,
Good day,

You are so very correct I was not there. Only saw the vid. Hence my comments.  Do hate to be preachy, but the innocent have no champion in the discussion at hand.

One can be dead right or dead wrong would suppose but dead all the same. Just do not take some poor innocent soul who did not have a dog in the fight with you would ask. Never venture more than can absorbed as loss. Risk versus rewards.

I would further point out it is in the math and physics where I question your wisdom. This exemplified in the vid anyway. Two objects will not occupy the same space in the same time without calamity. Further doing the math of reaction time as well any timing of inattention that multiplied by relative MPH then multiply that by the number of cages approached yet again. These and other factors create an equation for disaster.

Saw where someone spoke of skill and reaction time being a factor? Think that would fall under the dead right column.

As said it is a free country.  You may dance with Faith, maybe kiss Charity a few times, make love to Lady Luck more than once. No matter all, you always marry Destiny.  Yeah it is a parable, perhaps appropriate here. Good luck with your riding style. Hope and pray you do not need such. Hope any innocent has it should the need arise as well. Sincerely.
 
Shawn said:
This is exactly why the forum is so freakin annoying!!!!

Regardless of whether you think it's legal, illegal, careless, reckless, negligent, irresponsible, or whatever...can't we join the thread and debate without the JABS?

This is a fellow COGger that had an incident that (if we're wise) we should all learn from, even if you don't live in Cal.

Jabs are juvenile!
Click to expand...

Well said!
 
cra-z1000 said:
I commuted and split lanes for a few years in Ca. on my 550 four . Had alot of close calls . I'm not sure I'd do it on this fat bike . I recall folks opening up the lane for me on the 91 . One thing to remember though is not all drivers have been driving those freeways for years and do not expect to see bikes doing this . Here in Texas you wouldn't last one commute lane splitting . Was she from Texas ? 😀
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No, she was from Cali, I believe in her 20's
 
I'm glad you weren't hurt and that you didn't go down.  Hope the repairs to the bike aren't too costly.

I lived and rode in California for many years, and I 'enjoyed' the benefits of lane splitting.  I won't begin to argue whether or not it affords us any safety, that's as controversial as an oil or tire thread.  I will say that when I did split traffic, I did so when it was stopped or moving VERY slowly, and the speed I traveled, was only slightly faster than the other traffic.  It looked to me like the splitting in the video was a tad fast for my tastes.  Coming up on cars that quickly doesn't afford them much opportunity to spot a bike moving between lanes.  Those are just observations from on old guy.
 
runnerb0y said:
I'm glad you weren't hurt and that you didn't go down.  Hope the repairs to the bike aren't too costly.

I lived and rode in California for many years, and I 'enjoyed' the benefits of lane splitting.  I won't begin to argue whether or not it affords us any safety, that's as controversial as an oil or tire thread.  I will say that when I did split traffic, I did so when it was stopped or moving VERY slowly, and the speed I traveled, was only slightly faster than the other traffic.  It looked to me like the splitting in the video was a tad fast for my tastes.  Coming up on cars that quickly doesn't afford them much opportunity to spot a bike moving between lanes.  Those are just observations from on old guy.
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runnerbOy,

Thank you and appreciate your objective review. Some on here want to criticize my riding ability, call out witnesses, say they'll win in court, that I'm riding a missile that may hurt or kill someone, yada yada yada. The video posting was to "live and learn" from things that happen on the road, my mistake for posting. Its ridiculous how out of hand this has gotten. It's tiring, frustrating and downright childish as well as juvenile regarding some of the comments. I'm done with it all.
 
spartan1984 said:
runnerb0y said:
I'm glad you weren't hurt and that you didn't go down.  Hope the repairs to the bike aren't too costly.

I lived and rode in California for many years, and I 'enjoyed' the benefits of lane splitting.  I won't begin to argue whether or not it affords us any safety, that's as controversial as an oil or tire thread.  I will say that when I did split traffic, I did so when it was stopped or moving VERY slowly, and the speed I traveled, was only slightly faster than the other traffic.  It looked to me like the splitting in the video was a tad fast for my tastes.  Coming up on cars that quickly doesn't afford them much opportunity to spot a bike moving between lanes.  Those are just observations from on old guy.
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runnerbOy,

Thank you and appreciate your objective review. Some on here want to criticize my riding ability, call out witnesses, say they'll win in court, that I'm riding a missile that may hurt or kill someone, yada yada yada. The video posting was to "live and learn" from things that happen on the road, my mistake for posting. Its ridiculous how out of hand this has gotten. It's tiring, frustrating and downright childish as well as juvenile regarding some of the comments. I'm done with it all.
Click to expand...

spartan1984,

I was hopefully not being judgmental, that certainly wasn't my intent.  I agree that many folks on this (and every forum) start a thread with the intention of telling a story, or possibly to help educate/warn others, and it ends up with 100 barbed comments/replies, and then devolves into some dispute about religion or politics.

Heck, if lane splitting were legal in Oregon, I'd be doing it when I felt it was 'safe enough' to.

Again, I'm glad you didn't go down and I hope the repairs don't cost too much.  Be well!!
 
runnerb0y said:
spartan1984 said:
runnerb0y said:
I'm glad you weren't hurt and that you didn't go down.  Hope the repairs to the bike aren't too costly.

I lived and rode in California for many years, and I 'enjoyed' the benefits of lane splitting.  I won't begin to argue whether or not it affords us any safety, that's as controversial as an oil or tire thread.  I will say that when I did split traffic, I did so when it was stopped or moving VERY slowly, and the speed I traveled, was only slightly faster than the other traffic.  It looked to me like the splitting in the video was a tad fast for my tastes.  Coming up on cars that quickly doesn't afford them much opportunity to spot a bike moving between lanes.  Those are just observations from on old guy.
Click to expand...
runnerbOy,

Thank you and appreciate your objective review. Some on here want to criticize my riding ability, call out witnesses, say they'll win in court, that I'm riding a missile that may hurt or kill someone, yada yada yada. The video posting was to "live and learn" from things that happen on the road, my mistake for posting. Its ridiculous how out of hand this has gotten. It's tiring, frustrating and downright childish as well as juvenile regarding some of the comments. I'm done with it all.
Click to expand...

spartan1984,

I was hopefully not being judgmental, that certainly wasn't my intent.  I agree that many folks on this (and every forum) start a thread with the intention of telling a story, or possibly to help educate/warn others, and it ends up with 100 barbed comments/replies, and then devolves into some dispute about religion or politics.

Heck, if lane splitting were legal in Oregon, I'd be doing it when I felt it was 'safe enough' to.

Again, I'm glad you didn't go down and I hope the repairs don't cost too much.  Be well!!
Click to expand...

You weren't judgmental and I appreciated your comments. I probably should have started my "rant" on another posting, sorry about that. Reflecting on all that went down that day, I'm happy, amazed and lucky to have kept the bike upright. The only damage I see is to the mirror and side case, but take it into the dealer on Saturday so that they can write up the estimate and send to the insurance folks.
 
DC Concours said:
HeavyRotation said:
I can't believe there are motorcyclists so misinformed on the legalities and benefits of filtering. Several comments on here just have me flummoxed, why are you so angry and so invested in something that doesn't affect you on the East Coast? You should read the studies on lane sharing, it's a practice beneficial to safety, congestion reduction and reducing emissions from idling vehicles. You seem like a real territorial person, we're all just trying to get where we're going safely.
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If lane splitting is so great then tell me why it's illegal and/or left up in air in 49 states? Have they not studied the papers?

I know. These east coast new englanders have this better than thou attitude. I try and tamp it whenever I can. But what can I say...we are just built like that. Not angry. Just comes out as such.
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Again you're wrong, it is illegal in 48 states, soon to be 47.
 
Daboo said:
HeavyRotation said:
Park your big car (safely) in a lane sometime and get out and measure the lane, have you ever done this? My 3/4 ton 4x4 diesel pickup is 72" from outside tire edge to outside tire edge. Interstate lanes are required to be 12 feet wide. If you are in the middle of your lane, that means there are 3 feet on either side of you. I think most people have average to poor proprioception and are generally unaware or just uninterested in the facts of road travel and construction. I can fit 2 of my pickup in one lane of an interstate highway, not including the 7' mandatory shoulder which in most cases is also available. Folks who think there's insufficient room on a highway for safe filtering are just incorrect.
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I totally agree with you.  :)  My "problem" is that I center myself in the lane as I've done for who knows how many miles...a million?  Fifty-one years, anyway.  So unless I kept reminding myself to move to one side or the other, I'd find myself right where I always am...in the center of the lane.  Just because I'm driving in California for the first time ever, doesn't mean I'm fitting into the mold of everyone else who lives there.

And at home, I'm normally riding a motorcycle or driving a Subaru Outback...not the biggest car on the road.

So my point was that as a motorcylist who splits lanes...you are expecting me to act like the thousands of other motorists on the road.  If I had Washington license plates, that might clue you in to be a bit more wary of me.  I might do something unexpected.  And I'm not even looking for you.  But with a rental vehicle with California plates, you have no idea that I'm not familiar with the customs of California drivers.

You can say I should know better.  That's like Monday Morning Quarterbacking.  Just judging from the responses to this thread, I'd say most of the non-California drivers wouldn't be any different.

Chris
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It takes some getting used to for sure. I split in Oregon and Washington all the time. Im an activist though, I lobby my legislators on this constantly.
 
Bottom line is if you do this expect folks to not know what you're doing . Most of them have their heads on their phones not on you . I split lanes back before cell phones and did not have that factor to deal with .
 
I wonder if she didn't fess up to starting to change lanes and no video, what the outcome would be, no-fault insurance?

In CT insurance companies can find percentage of fault. I had a car accident where a person ran a red light seconds after it had changed, I proceeded through the blind intersection and hit his rear quarter panel. Witness on the corner told police that he ran the light, driver got a ticket. Insurance company said they would pay 70% of my damage because I was 30% at fault for not reacting and avoiding the collision. Well a call to my states insurance commissioner and follow up pictures from my building blocked point of view of his path of travel had him give warning to the insurance adjuster and 100% was offered.
 
Bob_C_CT said:
I wonder if she didn't fess up to starting to change lanes and no video, what the outcome would be, no-fault insurance?

In CT insurance companies can find percentage of fault. I had a car accident where a person ran a red light seconds after it had changed, I proceeded through the blind intersection and hit his rear quarter panel. Witness on the corner told police that he ran the light, driver got a ticket. Insurance company said they would pay 70% of my damage because I was 30% at fault for not reacting and avoiding the collision. Well a call to my states insurance commissioner and follow up pictures from my building blocked point of view of his path of travel had him give warning to the insurance adjuster and 100% was offered.
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I don't think she knows I have the video. I know the officer took our license/insurance information and he waited with me until the wifey stopped by to collect the side case. The driver was long gone by then. I'll see what was written up when I get my hands on the police report.
 
runnerb0y said:
spartan1984 said:
runnerb0y said:
I'm glad you weren't hurt and that you didn't go down.  Hope the repairs to the bike aren't too costly.

I lived and rode in California for many years, and I 'enjoyed' the benefits of lane splitting.  I won't begin to argue whether or not it affords us any safety, that's as controversial as an oil or tire thread.  I will say that when I did split traffic, I did so when it was stopped or moving VERY slowly, and the speed I traveled, was only slightly faster than the other traffic.  It looked to me like the splitting in the video was a tad fast for my tastes.  Coming up on cars that quickly doesn't afford them much opportunity to spot a bike moving between lanes.  Those are just observations from on old guy.
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runnerbOy,

Thank you and appreciate your objective review. Some on here want to criticize my riding ability, call out witnesses, say they'll win in court, that I'm riding a missile that may hurt or kill someone, yada yada yada. The video posting was to "live and learn" from things that happen on the road, my mistake for posting. Its ridiculous how out of hand this has gotten. It's tiring, frustrating and downright childish as well as juvenile regarding some of the comments. I'm done with it all.
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spartan1984,

I was hopefully not being judgmental, that certainly wasn't my intent.  I agree that many folks on this (and every forum) start a thread with the intention of telling a story, or possibly to help educate/warn others, and it ends up with 100 barbed comments/replies, and then devolves into some dispute about religion or politics.

Heck, if lane splitting were legal in Oregon, I'd be doing it when I felt it was 'safe enough' to.

Again, I'm glad you didn't go down and I hope the repairs don't cost too much.  Be well!!
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Im in oregon, i split lanes all the time on 205, I5, Banfield and sometimes on Beltline in Eugene. Never an issue if you do it cautiously, prudently and respectfully.
 
Interesting discussion and viewpoints here. Certainly learning a lot about opinions on filtering. Have tried to enter my thoughts with some others in the mix. Someone commented on jabs but in re-read of all posts here seems this stream of posts is quite civil. Unless it is a "jab" to have a differing view would suppose.

The Golden Rule might be applicable here on this subject as well. You know the do unto others one. I say such not about the posts but due to experiences in the 80's when a commuter in Atlanta Georgia on my Norton 750 Roadster.

Several times during these commutes in traffic at high speeds I had cage drivers pass me at a much higher speed usually to my right when I was to the left of middle in my lane. They were in essence filtering.

Usually it was an nice suited elitist male in a BMW or Mercedes car. There were few to no asses in big trucks in those days. No I was not occupying the fast lane at the time. The highways were multi laned. They always came up suddenly through traffic as I watch my mirrors like a fighter pilot scans the sky. They would be inches from my bar mirrors as they passed to my great surprise.

In those days motorcyclist were taught to stay off the oil streak in the middle of any lane. Some passed to left if I was right of center on occasion too. Usually I would hear a change in sound much to my surprise but they were already too close at that point.

I never appreciated "sharing" the lane with them. Felt they were intimidating me for their pleasure because they could. Which they were. They were driving aggressively and outside the laws of the day.

Yes have had other motorcyclist do this too rarely. Never appreciated that either as I ride the road surface in my lane. Changing position to avoid irregularities on surfaces.

Was all this above not filtering by the cage drivers? Does the Golden Rule not apply?  All above risky and rude would be my surmise. That just an opinion based of these experiences and not a jab.

 
after watching the vid.. over, and over.. and over again; all I can say is I'm glad my state, Ohio, has not condoned it.
I find it a bit innocuous that Cali, with such strict laws on some aspects of life preservation , and personal rights afforded by the U.S. Constitution, could be so vague, and in reality so blatantly Hubris, in saying they neither condone, nor outlaw the practice.

I would employ the legal system to take a "laissez faire" approach, and any "monetary loss" on the part of a party deciding to "lane split" on a motorcycle, be simply tossed aside by any court. NOBODY GETS ANY MONEY..
. Reason? because, anyone "lane splitting" and causing damages to an automobile, will not be prosecuted in the same manner.  And "without a described law" will not be seriously honored.

THAT said, is a lane splitter, liable for all medical costs for someone that may have their arm sticking out a window, smoking a cig, and a splitter slams his arm, and shatters it doing a "split", and if the broken armed person could even get his license plate number and write it down with the unbroken arm, in blood, on his dashboard.. will thee "splitter " be responsible for the medical costs?

Just food for thought.

I don't have a west cost mentality, nor do I ever desire to drive or ride there.

Best of luck on the outcome, I'd suggest never showing that video in a court of law.. (wife is retired attorney) as it clearly shws the person in the car, never "left" her prescribed lane of forward travel, and veered into the adjoining lane (i.e. crossed the painted line prior to the damage). She has the "right" to her full "lane of travel", line to line.

I'm not wishing you bad tidings, just saying this was something that "you" did, and felt "you had a right", and that someone else's actions were in some way a point where the damage "you suffered", 'by your'e choice' at that time, should be paid for by a person that "on film" did NOT break a law.

I don't live in a "filtering state", but we freely "filter'.. but we don't "filter in the manner of that video"; that said, "filter means to us" when traffic is at a COMPLETE standstill, and you are on a motorcycle that is aircooled, or overheating, filter thru traffic.. along a berm, or whatever, or simply pull over..
California is in such a "holier than thou" mode, filtering means "if you are going 40 mph on a 55 mph highway, I have a "implied" right to bypass all you slow s.o.b.'s, because my bike fits between your cars..  Really?, Seriously?..

sometime I just sit and wait for the big earthquake,  and when Cali falls into the ocean, the rest of the USA can go on being real,

hey, Peace, Love, Macrame, I love Jerry Garcia, love the fact you can buy and smoke dope... it's still against fed Law... don't like people telling me I can't have a gun in my home, to defend myself, and my family when "panic and insurrection prevails".. hey, even if zombies became a reality.. you guys are screwed.  lane splitting was a good concept, but it has gone wayyyy beyond the concept  :great: :great:  Now it's just a nightmare, that clogs the judicial system with ridiculous and time consuming cases, that just feed bottom feeding attorney fees and clog the court time.

"to increase the quality of the the day; that is the highest of the arts..."


ride safe, ride smart, don't do something that could result in your demise...weigh the reality of others, against your needs..  don't make anyone other than yourself responsible for "the actions you chose".  And do not place them responsible, for the outcome of your choice.

I'm 64 years old. I have escaped death on motorcycles 200 times more than my age. Why press the limit?

:-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X :-X

edit again;

I really do like your posts, and participation in cog, and really do not want to read of you having a issue or an injury, we all strive to be "real" we all want to live long, and share the good / the bad experience you had, was just a tip of your journey; I hope you fare well, and prosper

It seems fitting, but old, and weepy as I am, I can only offer this.. wise words.

https://youtu.be/95ND_fwX2fM

 
MOB. Hahahahah. You are funny. But we like Cali. Who would we make fun of if they were gone?

Anyway, this is what I have been trying to explain here all along. She was always in her lane within her rights when he came and hit her. I studied law but never practised, nonetheless, one doesn't need a law degree to eviscerate the motorcyclist's defense.

As can be seen in this vid, lane splitting is inherently dangerous no matter what anyone says. It is 2019 yet only "two" measly states allow splitting? Really? How long have we had roads and motorcycles? Let me know when a few more serious states take up the cause.
 
I was trying to remember what trial was done and by who that said about 80% of the motorcyclists tested did  not respond well or did nothing when an emergency arose.

Not to trash anyone here the first thing I saw was the distance at which the car started to turn it's wheels.
The second was right hand with throttle only and not ready on the front break. There did not seem to be any reaction until just before the collision.

Situational awareness and being ready are some of our best tools for survival.
 
The average reaction time for humans is 0.25 seconds to a visual stimulus, 0.17 for an audio stimulus, and 0.15 seconds for a touch stimulus. This all in the lab.

Perception time is the three-quarters of a second it takes for you to realize that you need to take action. Varies widely in humans. Some take a full 3 seconds. Reaction time is the three-quarters of a second it takes to take action. Varies as well. Processes like swerving or braking as example at 1.5 seconds are problematic as a result. This from automobile safety research.

All this does not factor well with filtering as you are closing distance on vehicles repeatedly, often in their blind spots. Seems contrary to all recommended safety procedures for motorcyclist. This video seems to confirm why such is a bad practice regardless of law or how lucky one is within their skill set has been. It is a numbers game much like Russian Roulette would think.

Watching front tires along with scanning rearview mirrors is a skill set every motorcyclist should perfect. These two skills have saved me more than I can count. As I age and reaction time slows need every trick in the book to survive modern cell phone proclivity and other trends in cage drivers.

Beating a dead horse here perhaps but if any one of many readers here thinks twice and refrains. Then the comments will have served a public service by us all.
 
Personally, I wouldn't ever lanesplit even in Cali.  I'm not comfortable with that practice.
But I might change my mind if I were sitting in LA traffic on a 95 degree day.

The real difference is: 1. It's legal in Cali and 2. People are accustomed to motorcyclists doing this.

I still wouldn't trust ANY motorist though -- it's not like they teach motorists how to yield to lanesplitting motorcyclists in driver's ed out there.....do they???

Good Luck Spartan.

gr
 
connie_rider said:
GR, see reply #26. Apparently it's allowed, but not a law.

Ride safe, Ted
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THERE'S A BIG DIFFERENCE BETWEEN "ALLOWED, and NOT ENFORCED"

and this is the crux of the biscuit so to speak.. as I noted, doing a "hands off" thing, when peoples lives, property damage, increased thruput on the judicial system, and trying to ascertain "who did what, when the cop was NOT there".. becomes a nightmare.

"Lane splitting general guidelines

"Lane splitting general guidelines" information is no longer available.

A petitioner complained to the Office of Administrative Law that there was no formal rulemaking process for the guidelines, and raised other objections. The CHP discussed the issue with the Office of Administrative Law and chose not to issue, use or enforce guidelines and thus removed them from the website.

The underlying purpose of the guidelines was to provide common-sense traffic safety information.

California law does not allow or prohibit motorcycles from passing other vehicles proceeding in the same direction within the same lane, a practice often called "lane splitting," "lane sharing" or "filtering.""

in my eyes, striking a vehical while your vehical (whatever it is) in forward motion, at a speed exceeding the vehical you strike, within a lane of traffic, is upon the person that placed themself by action, as the responsible party.

Like I say, glad this "assumed" law, does not apply in my state, as I have been sideswiped, rear ended, and numerously other times had a vehical succumb to damages, not even close to my saying anything like "they sidsewiped me" as I was "passing them".
 
connie_rider said:
GR, see reply #26. Apparently it's allowed, but not a law.

Ride safe, Ted
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AB 51 makes it legal , not just allowed ! There are guidelines to follow or the rider or a car driver can be fined , you can google it if you want more info! I don’t do it though!
 
Ab 51 didn't make it legal, it just allows guidelines to be established. I did Google it. As posted above they now have been removed by the dot. In  CA. It is not illegal to share lanes. In many states it is.

You are overtaking and hit someone, you are at fault. You might not have moved sideways but you still hit her. An unsafe lane change would be if you were in the adjacent lane and she crossed over and hit you. Then it would be her fault. In your video it looks like the lane next to her is open.

Let's add to the hypothetical.  I think I saw her left arm out the window signaling a turn. Would that be a legal way to signal her lane change? Could you have seen it filtering by her on the right side of her car?

30 years ago in CA. I almost got smacked by a six pack when 2 cars from IL. tried to share as I filtered between them. They didn't expect someone to be driving between them.
 
JPD said:
Ab 51 didn't make it legal, it just allows guidelines to be established. I did Google it. As posted above they now have been removed by the dot. In  CA. It is not illegal to share lanes. In many states it is.

You are overtaking and hit someone, you are at fault. You might not have moved sideways but you still hit her. An unsafe lane change would be if you were in the adjacent lane and she crossed over and hit you. Then it would be her fault. In your video it looks like the lane next to her is open.

Let's add to the hypothetical.  I think I saw her left arm out the window signaling a turn. Would that be a legal way to signal her lane change? Could you have seen it filtering by her on the right side of her car?

30 years ago in CA. I almost got smacked by a six pack when 2 cars from IL. tried to share as I filtered between them. They didn't expect someone to be driving between them.
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Yea it is legal! You follow the guidelines you wont be cited by the LEO!
 
Everything is legal until they make a law against it.  That's how a free society operates. 

Since for years, there was no law against splitting/sharing in California, it wasn't illegal.

If I recall correctly, the new law only defines splitting/sharing and allows the CHP to develop training and guidelines.  There are no codified rules, only guidelines.  If they needed to take an enforcement action, they would likely get you for reckless driving.
 
Update...bike is fixed and the other driver was found to be at fault. Her insurance company called and said they will reimburse all fees. To the righteous, pompous,  pontificating members who accused me of riding dangerously and causing the accident (looking at Lee & DC Concours), eat your words.
 
As a veteran lane-splitter with many many thousands of miles of lane-splitting (we call it filtering in the UK) under my belt, that was 100% the car drivers fault.
They failed to signal, failed to check if a lane-splitting motorcycle was approaching, and failed to check if the lane they wanted was clear.

That said, you do learn to read the cars and the overall situation when lane-splitting and whenever there is a bigger than car sized gap in either lane, I slow down as I assume a blind bonehead will try to swerve into it, always without signalling. Also, you should watch the cars front wheels as they cannot move sideways without the front wheels turning. Again this becomes a subliminal/peripheral vision thing after a while and I often brake without actually knowing why,... until the car moves across in front of me. Trust your instincts!!

If you have never done lane-splitting, you are not qualified to comment.
It is legal in much of the world and is done daily by hundreds of thousands of motorcyclists.
Yes, a few of us get knocked off, but if we are travelling at a sensible speed like Spartan was we rarely get seriously hurt.
When lane-splitting I rarely go over 30Mph and vary my speed according to the traffic flow, the space available, and the weather.
I also cover the front brake with all 4 fingers and always keep both hands on the bars.

In Countries and States where lane-splitting is codified in the law, the responsibility for avoiding an accident lies with ALL road users.
Too many car drivers falsely assume that they don't need to know what is going on around them and fail to stay aware of their environment, especially when they are in traffic.
No, the car driver is probably not gonna get hurt, and the motorcyclist probably will, but that is the choice the motorcyclist makes when they choose to lane-split, and when they choose to ride a motorcycle.

I got to see someone pee themselves when they got out of their car in a traffic jam on a motorway to remove their jacket, then looked up to see a motorcycle approaching rapidly. I stopped about 5 feet from him, the back wheel crashed to the ground, and I let loose a stream of consciousness tirade of abuse.
He really shouldn't have worn light coloured pants.  :rotflmao:
 
The most important thing here is your ok and well and can do what you enjoy ride again.

Spartan having not been in an area where lane splitting is legal.
Is there anything you could share from your experience that would benifit others here to prevent a collision?
 
Boomer hit on a lot of points that make sense. Be aware of your surroundings, open spots are dangerous because cagers may not see you speed and pace are important.
 
spartan1984 said:
Update...bike is fixed and the other driver was found to be at fault. Her insurance company called and said they will reimburse all fees. To the righteous, pompous,  pontificating members who accused me of riding dangerously and causing the accident (looking at Lee & DC Concours), eat your words.
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Excellent.
 
Road Runner said:
Not for me; to each her/his own. Be safe/careful out there ... a lot of variables at play!
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I would never try to force someone to do it, as it is dangerous and very stressful.
At the same time it can be as exhilarating as carving a twisty road and getting every corner just right.  :great:
 
Boomer may have covered one point of view, supported by local traffic and the jurisdiction he’s acquainted with, and I think it is fair to say that most riders even when they are in their cages try to keep an eye out for other riders – but still I get surprised by bikes that cross behind me, pop out of my blind spot and wiggle through the next hole in traffic… in DC rush hour traffic where everyone is inching along at less than 25mph and jockeying to get into the correct lane for their destination, any rider has to be so careful because they are just one more moving target in  sea of moving targets… At least in the DC area, when I used to commute 750 miles a week, I was never brave/impatient/impulsive enough to split lanes (isn’t legal anyway…), but I see braver souls than me do it all the time – some seem to be quite skilled at it, others seem to think it is a game, all are taking a huge risk that someone will (look up from their cell-phone and) see them before they get nudged into a metro-bus, or dump-truck (etc., both of which occupy a lot of already narrow lanes).  I will always try to let them through, but man, many times they must think I have eyes in the back of my head…
 
Props to you for staying up. Just remember a little horn never hurt anyone.

You're going along and you need to make your presence known.
 
can we safely say the outcome has been revealed, everyone was safe, un hurt; some person will be paying higher insurance rates now because of the action of someone else, and everyone is entitled to their own belief of what is "allowed vs. smart" with respect....
I ask the mods to end this, and only because many of us do not think we should be running in between cars at 30 mph, simply because "you have a right to do so"..many states feel it's un safe, mine does. I feel it's kinda stupid to do, and when something happens as a result, you try to sue the pants off the "offender".  split lanes in non moving traffic.. fine... split lanes when traffic is moving at walking pace.. again ..fine, but justifying it all, and running between cars which ARE moving at 30 mph or more... get a grip.  slow down, smell the roses, live longer, don't do things that may make your spouse a widow.

DRIVING ON ROADWAYS IS A PRIVILEGE, NOT A RIGHT...
 
Well, there is no "right to do so," it's just that it's not unlawful IN THAT STATE.  There is a difference.
 
I watch YouTube videos of motorcycles in india and i think it's very entertaining to see that wild life. And I've never really seen rage with all that commotion.
That being said I don't have any experience at all driving in that much traffic even in a car.
I know legislation is out in different places for this particular topic but if I pondered it as to my local situation I think I would break the law and lane split if it meant me stopping on a hill or splitting and getting to a flatter spot.
Then again who knows. I pulled the bike out of storage and rode all day and half the time I stopped at lights I was seldom stopped straight hah! I'm going to have to winterize all over again.
 
Sorry, no one is eating any words here. You clearly hit the lady, and she being flummoxed and in a momentary state of panic gave up her right to a trial by unwittingly admitting to something that was obviously not her fault. So, it was an easy win for you. If that accident was with someone like me or mob you wouldn't be singing the same tune.

Anyway, at the end of the day it seems no one was hurt and that is a good thing.


spartan1984 said:
Update...bike is fixed and the other driver was found to be at fault. Her insurance company called and said they will reimburse all fees. To the righteous, pompous,  pontificating members who accused me of riding dangerously and causing the accident (looking at Lee & DC Concours), eat your words.
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Topic is now closed, a reminder to be civil and it appears that since fauit was found in the driver, this topic has run its course. Multiple moderators agree on this. :beerchug:

From the forum rules:

1 -Civility. This is a non-negotiable. Whether you visit this forum as a forum subscriber or as a COG Member, you are still a guest. You are expected to be on your best behavior. Personal slights, insults or other forms of attack against other users will not be tolerated. It does not matter if someone else started it first! Like Mom used to say, "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all!" So, mind your manners.

 
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