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So what's the best brand/model tires for the C10?

dano44

Tricycle
Hey all,

I have a significant air leak in my rear tire.  I have a dealer checking it out now, but suspect that they'll come back with the old "You need to replace the tire" line.  (The rubber is still good, but if it has a hole in it, my understanding is that you don't repair, you only replace.)

So, I believe it currently has an Avon 195 (? - not sure, bike isn't in front of me) on the rear.  I don't ride crazy-hard, don't lay it down nearly sideways in curves, but do like to corner hard sometimes.  Try to avoid riding in the rain, but sometimes, you know, you get caught in the rain.

So, pretty much normal riding, and I want to take some long trips this coming spring/summer. 

I've read the forum on tires, and people seem pretty passionate about which tires are the best.  I'd like to get your opinion on what tires provide the best value and performance.

Thanks guys!

Dano
 
Dano:

I'm sure by the time this thread has been around a week, you will have at least 10 different tires brands given to you.  As for me, I've run a good number of different tires and there is only one I will NOT buy again, that is the Metzler 880.  Yes, they wear well, handle fair on dry pavement, but when it rains, you have to make an effort to avoid the painted sections of the road as they slip fairly easily on that.  The Avons, they handle well (wet and dry) but don't hold up very long, meaning they wear out rather quickly.  So, just read what each person has to say and try to pick one that suits your riding style.
 
For some extra bucks you can get Avon Venoms. Supposed to wear longer and still hold in the rain.
 
SSmith_3184 said:
My tires of choice right now for the C10 is the Avon Storm 2 Ultra (front) and Azaro (rear).
In stock sizes, I concur with this choice of tires.  If you have done any 17" conversions the choices open up... a LOT.  No... actually WAY more than a LOT.  However, the Avons are excellent tires for most conditions and in the stock sizes offer unmatched performance as far as handling and grip are concerned.  They are NOT long life tires, but give outstanding service for as long as they do last.

Now talking about tires lasting a long time... I realize that money doesn't grow on trees and we all want to maximize our bang for the buck, but one thing I keep in mind is that as tires near the end of their lifespan the handling, feel, and performance is compromised, right?  And a long life tire, if you insist on getting the life out of it, will generally keep you on crappy tires for waaaaayyyyy too long for real enjoyment or safety, IMHO.  Just another thought to toss into the equation of shopping for tires. 

I consider tires as maintenance/disposable items rather than as a permanent fixture of the motorcycle.  When they cease giving me what I want, I throw em away and get some that do.  Yeah, I gripe about the expense, but I'm always thrilled with the ride after swapping em out and THAT is what I like... having a ride that performs at 100%, as close to 100% of the time as possible.  Just my .02
 
I vote for the BT45s.  On my second rear and the first front is going away.
I do agree with Rev, but personal, I can not use 100% of the bikes potential.  I do not need the sticky short lived Avons.  The
BTs stick better than I can ride and last fairly long.
I will never under any circumstances put the Metzler 880s back on the bike.  That is what was on it when I bought it.  They wear like iron, but they are godawful slick in the wet stuff, or even under hard breaking on dry surfaces.
I dream of 17" wheels :'(
 
dano44 said:
So, I believe it currently has an Avon 195 (? - not sure, bike isn't in front of me) on the rear.  I don't ride crazy-hard, don't lay it down nearly sideways in curves, but do like to corner hard sometimes.  Try to avoid riding in the rain, but sometimes, you know, you get caught in the rain.

I've read the forum on tires, and people seem pretty passionate about which tires are the best.  I'd like to get your opinion on what tires provide the best value and performance.

Asking what tires are best is like asking who's the prettiest girl.  You'll get folks asking why you think that even matters in the choice :)

I've been mostly happy with the Avons.  I don't do much mileage tho', so relatively fast wear isn't an issue.  If they wore longer I'd probably have to replace them from dry rot anyway.  Most of my seat time is at 20-40MPH herding bicycles or commuting.  Which come to think of it most of that is at the same speed.

I can get the rear to slip around here, but Austin's streets are paved with reclaimed fryer grease and BBQ drippin's. 

Know you were looking for a 'best', but the Tire List is over here.  I'm linking the front page instead of the link since I'm not certain it will remain constant as I edit the 'front page'.  Go through the ToC and you'll get there.  It's a bare bone page so it ought to load quickly.
http://web.newsguy.com/vrooomm/Connie/
 
If you are using the stock rims the Dunlop Roadsmart radial tire is a very good choice for a front tire.  Right now mine has 16k on it and still isn't down to the wear marks...yet. 

Dunlop D205's rear tires are still available and do very good in the rain.

 
GSGSXJay said:
If you are using the stock rims the Dunlop Roadsmart radial tire is a very good choice for a front tire.  Right now mine has 16k on it and still isn't down to the wear marks...yet. 

Dunlop D205's rear tires are still available and do very good in the rain.


I've never liked the Dunlop's as much. They always give me the flat squared off edge feel, much quicker than other tires! But that's just my experience.
 
I'm a Dunflop hater hater hater (yeah, that bad).  But now that I have 17" rims and can run any tire I want... I've got a set of Roadsmarts on there and I like em a lot.  Hated the 205s though... hate hate hate.  Sorry, cuppin', squarin'-off, no stickin', so and sos.  :mad:

There, I feel better now.  ;)
They were MUCH better than the OEM rubber.
 
Rev Rider said:
I'm a Dunflop hater hater hater (yeah, that bad).  But now that I have 17" rims and can run any tire I want... I've got a set of Roadsmarts on there and I like em a lot.  Hated the 205s though... hate hate hate.  Sorry, cuppin', squarin'-off, no stickin', so and sos.  :mad:

There, I feel better now.  ;)
They were MUCH better than the OEM rubber.
The Dunlop RoadSmart front tire is much better than the Dunlop D205 front tire because of the multiple compound tread.  Too bad Dunlop hasn't made a RoadSmart tire in 150/80-16.  :(

If the manufacturers decide to quit making the C10 sized tires in the near future I'm going to make a beeline to get 17" rims OR get another bike. 
 
Mr.Moose said:
I was wondering if anyone had experience with the Shinko 747's?
Can't say that I have personal experience w/ that tire but a friend has been happy w/ Shinko Raven tires.  The best thing about them was the price but in the same breath there have been problems w/ quality.
 
$261.93 with FREE shipping to lower 48 from www.americanmototire.com that's the Ultra 2 Storm in the 110 size and Azaro rear in 150.

$249.90 from www.swmototires.com for the same sizes.  Also FREE shippping

hope this helps.
 
Rev Rider said:
$261.93 with FREE shipping to lower 48 from www.americanmototire.com that's the Ultra 2 Storm in the 110 size and Azaro rear in 150.

$249.90 from www.swmototires.com for the same sizes.  Also FREE shippping

hope this helps.

Rev, I was looking around and it looks like the Avon Venom are available in stock sizes, do you know if anyone has tried them?
 
I've got the Venoms in 'Goldwing' sizes on mine (f 130/70-18, r 160/80-16). So far, 3K miles and loving it.
 
I ordered a Storm 2 front tire in 120/70 - 18 from swmototires.com.  Best price I found anywhere and free shipping.  Thanks for all the info from everyone.  I will order the rear Avon AV46 from swmototires.com when it is time to replace my Dunlop D205 rear.

2000 Concours 43k
 
I have no Venom experience.  Storm, Azaro, D205, OEM,Macadam X100, Pilot Road, Pilot Power, Pirelli Sport Demons, and now Roadsmarts in 17".  I've run these tires only on the C10.
 
So Rev, how do you get 250 for the Avon combo at swmototires. When I look the front is 128 and the rear 140. Thats 268 by my math.

I noticed shopping for BT45 they were cheaper at MS superstore.

BT45's which some like better are 86 front and 116 rear for $202 shipped from MS Superstore. So far I like the BT-45's. Similar to the Avon combo from a wear point of view with the front wearing well, and the back is going much quicker. Had me thinking of going back to Pig Wing tars again and trying the Venoms. However I see the Venoms are $307 for a set shipped at MS superstore in wing sizes and for a comparison from the same store the BT45's would be $318 for a front and 2 rears.  Comparing them from the same store, seems like not to far off cost wise. On one side its a bit less work to not change the extra rear for wing size. But on the other side I can keep the nice handling of the 110/80 front, the grip, etc of the sport tour tire in stock size for $11 in cost. Its really only a bit more time in Colin's garage.

 
Like I stated, that was for the 110/80-18 front tire (we guys with early bikes has skinny front rims hence a smaller tire that runs $109.95) and the 150/60-16 rear (same all models @ $139.95) for a total of $149.90 + free shipping.  As would be expected, you priced the later model 120 front at $119.95.  Sorry to get you all excited.  ;D


EDIT TO ADD:
Wait a minute.  Your numbers are still fuzzy.  Where did you get $128 for the front at?
(lookin around some more)
Ahhh, OK.  I see you were looking at the Storm 2.  I was looking at the original Storm front tire.
 
Slybones said:
So Rev, how do you get 250 for the Avon combo at swmototires. When I look the front is 128 and the rear 140. Thats 268 by my math.

I noticed shopping for BT45 they were cheaper at MS superstore.

BT45's which some like better are 86 front and 116 rear for $202 shipped from MS Superstore. So far I like the BT-45's. Similar to the Avon combo from a wear point of view with the front wearing well, and the back is going much quicker. Had me thinking of going back to Pig Wing tars again and trying the Venoms. However I see the Venoms are $307 for a set shipped at MS superstore in wing sizes and for a comparison from the same store the BT45's would be $318 for a front and 2 rears.  Comparing them from the same store, seems like not to far off cost wise. On one side its a bit less work to not change the extra rear for wing size. But on the other side I can keep the nice handling of the 110/80 front, the grip, etc of the sport tour tire in stock size for $11 in cost. Its really only a bit more time in Colin's garage.

Sw moto seems to have the Venom in  near stock sizes, 120/80/18 front and 150/80/16 rear for about $275.00 shipped.
 
could someone explain to me what the biggest differences are between the Avon storm/azaro combo and the BT45's other then $75.
 
Brady said:
could someone explain to me what the biggest differences are between the Avon storm/azaro combo and the BT45's other then $75.

The Avons are radial tires and the BT45's are Bias-ply. The BT45's will last longer but the Avons will give you better grip at the limits. Many feel that radials give a quicker response to inputs over bias-ply tires. It all breaks down to how and where you ride and what you would like for tire life. Most seem to average about 6000 miles from the rear on the Avons while I think the BT45's could give you 10k or more.
 
Having done radials D205's and BT45's back to back, I saw no change in the response of the tire.  There are a few on this forum who have done the Avons and BT45 back to back.  I don't think handling response is an issue.

All in all the trade off are probably true, but at a very small scale. When it comes to the balance of handling and traction versus tire life, the  BT45 are a lot more like the Avons and a lot less like the difference when comparing Avons / D205's / or BT45s to the Wing Size tires.

I have 8K on my rear now and its getting low and starting to square off.  10K will be lucky. The front seems to be doing good. And the other I know that have used BT45 report similar things. -- Why I priced 2 rears and 1 front  for the comparison.
 
norm9688 said:
Sw moto seems to have the Venom in  near stock sizes, 120/80/18 front and 150/80/16 rear for about $275.00 shipped.

Maybe but then my statement was Venoms in the wing sizes are $307 shipped at MS Superstore. Looking at swmototire wing size Venoms are 139 for the front and 171 for the rear, at $310 shipped.

There are people who have always been disappointed in the lack of mileage of the performance oriented tires. Me included. People have looked to the Wing Size tires as a way to get more of a balance between tire life and performance.  Some wing tires like the ME880's and the Elite 3's are pretty touring oriented. The gap between the performance tires and the wing tires was noticeable.

But then we got the Pilot GT's which handled way better than the previous wing tires most have tried. And we had a guy selling them to us for $260 range shipped.  The gap narrowed. At the time it seemed Avons versus Pilot GT's was all talk. At roughly $260 shipped for either set. -- I ran both the ME880s and the Pilot GTs.

Now days the Pilot GT's are gone and Avon Venoms are the replacement for the Wing Size group.  And people have also found some excellent alternatives in the stock sizes. While Avon Storm/Azaro combo may still be the best all out tire combo, there are some alternatives in the stock sizes with a very close gap, and nothing like the switch to Wing Sizes. BT45's being one of them. And at $70 range cheaper. There are even at least 2 on this forum that have done both the Avons and the BT45's and like the BT45's better.

We have also learned the 120/70 front tires don't belong on our bikes as they are designed for a 3.5" wheel and not the Connie's 3.0" wheel. We have learned to get the 110/80 instead.

So now my BT45 rear is getting down there and its time for me to think about what to try next. Do I want to go back to wing sizes and try the Venoms or should I stick with the BT45's. Or how about I finally get off my butt and try some Avons.

When I factor in cost, 2 rears and 1 front for Avons is a bit more than a set of Venoms in the wing sizes. But for the BT45's 2 rears and 1 front versus a set of Venoms in the wing size is only $11. Now I am wondering if I can stick with a performance oriented tire and get the mileage of the wing tires for similar cost, albeit more time in the garage changing that rear.

On edit, I got 20K out of my Pilot GT's and ME880's. However I dont seem to be as hard one tires as some. 15K is/was average for the Pilot GT crowd. I don't know about the Venoms. Anyway using 15K as a benchmark, and the wear on my current BT45's the question is can I get 15K out of 2 BT45 rears and 1 front. I say easily out of 2 rears. Not sure about the front. 15K on the BT front might be pushing it. -- But then I got the V rated BT45 front. They also have a H rated BT45 front that fits the Connie. In our sizes the BT45 rear is V rated only. But for the front an H rated BT45 might do the trick. -- Given the Wing sizes tires are all H rated ( that I know of ) this is not a big loss in my comparison of sticking with performance tires and mileage versus switching back to wing sizes.
 
Slybones said:
On edit, I got 20K out of my Pilot GT's and ME880's. However I dont seem to be as hard one tires as some. 15K is/was average for the Pilot GT crowd. I don't know about the Venoms. Anyway using 15K as a benchmark, and the wear on my current BT45's the question is can I get 15K out of 2 BT45 rears and 1 front. I say easily out of 2 rears. Not sure about the front. 15K on the BT front might be pushing it. -- But then I got the V rated BT45 front. They also have a H rated BT45 front that fits the Connie. In our sizes the BT45 rear is V rated only. But for the front an H rated BT45 might do the trick. -- Given the Wing sizes tires are all H rated ( that I know of ) this is not a big loss in my comparison of sticking with performance tires and mileage versus switching back to wing sizes.

I'm getting near 14k on my Pilot Gt's and need to find something to replace or do the 17in rear converson. In the BT45's they list a 110/80/18 front and a 150/80/16 rear so why get "wing" size? Do you think the 110/80/18 front will fit a 2003?
 
The 110/80-18 fits great on my 2003. Don't see why it will not fit on yours.

The stock Dunlop K700 series tires are radials and the 120/70 is designed for the 3.0" front wheel the Connie has.

However if you check the websites D205's, Avons and other tires in the 120/70 size are designed for 3.5" wheels, with 3.5" being the minimum width allowed and 3.75 being the widest. Of course most people dont know this and install them anyways. The 110/80 tires are 2.5" minimum wheel width ( the stock wheel in the older Connies ) and 3.0" wheel is the max width, the newer Connies. They will fit both.

Once many moons ago I think it was Colt45 who said the 120 deform enough that they were not any wider than the 110 when mounted. According to the tire size calculators the 120 is supposed to be 4.72 inches wide. The 110 is supposed to be 4.33 inches wide.

I measured my D205 120/70 radial at 4.45 inches mounted on my wheel. That's .27 inches deformation when mounted. Later when I removed the D205 and installed the BT45's I measured the unmounted D205 at 4.72 inches.

On the other hand the 110/80 is supposed to be 4.33 inches. My BT45 110/80 measured 4.33 both before and after mounting. No change in shape what so ever.

Here is my calipers set at 4.72 inches and then held up to the horribly cupped D205 about to be replaced. As you can see there is quite a gap there.

IMGP5355.JPG
 
is there any difference between the avon storm and storm 2?  Also are radials any safer then bias tires? Slybones how are the BT45's in the wet?
 
From a tire diameter point of view

120/70 should be 24.61 inches
110/80 should be 24.93 inches
130/70 should be 25.17 inches

Given this I was expecting some change in speedometer and odometer readings when switching from the D205's to the BT45's. However it didn't work out like that. I did not measure tire diameter like I did the width. But I suspect that squishing the 120 on the to narrow 3.0" wheel not only deformed it width wise, but also height wise as well.

If you read my older posts and my Connie website pages you'll see that I always felt the D205's were a bit nervous feeling. Yes they steer quicker that the wing sizes I was running before. They had a smoother, nicer ride as well. Yes even compared to the Pilot GT's, which I liked very much. However I always felt like I had to make constant minute corrections all the time. They just had a twitch to them I never got used to, especially after 40K of wing size tires. And the D205 front cupped horribly just like every one complains about them. To me they were also noisy. Up straight they were quiet, but howled in the turns. And got worse as they got older and cupped.

Now with the BT45's, they steer and ride just as nice as the D205's did. Nicer than either of the wing sizes I tried. And they don't have that nervous feeling. From that point of view I noticed no real change in steering and response. Just that nervous feeling went away. These track straight, ride nice, excellent traction, steer nice and light, etc etc. They are quiet too. No ####ing howling, thank you!! I am happy as can be with these. Now if I could only get 15K out of a set.
 
Moderator, can we make this thread a sticky one? There is lots of good information that will be needed again, for sure.  Thanks.
 
I've been running Metzeler ME 880 bias plys for the last 16k Kms and still have at least one more season on them. They handle well and stick well, although I'm not the most agressive rider around ( top speed so far only 205 Kms/hr ). They are not recomended for connie as they have a top rated speed of 230Kms/hr but I won't exceed that so I figure they are O.K. for me. By the way most of my riding is two up with gear ( often my wife and our 50lb airdale dog ). Good hunting, Greg- 01 zg1000 60k Kms.
 
Greg, I had the 880s on mine when I bought it and though they were pretty good.  I couldn't understand why people were downing them so much.  When I replaced them with the Bridgstone 45vs, I found out why.  The 880s wear like iron, but they really don't stick very well.
Have you tried any other tires on your concours yet?
 
I've had stock tires and replaced them with Metzlers on both of the connie's I've owned.  I've been in quite a bit of rain, and haven't had any grip problems, other than once hitting a dew-laden relective tape strip at a stop light with too much speed.  I'm getting about 18K miles on a rear tire and 20K on the front.  I do very little of my own wrenching, and changing tires every 6K miles would be quite an expense and a hassle.  I think I had just bought my first pair of 880's when the Pilot GT's came out, and by the time I wore them out, the GT's were gone! 

I find the wing size 880's wear well, they track well, add an inch or so to the bike height (which even trues the speedometer!).  Most of my riding is either commuting to work, or backroad riding and blasting home/ blasting there and riding back.  Even the two or three long trips I take each year have at least one blast leg on the interstate, which is what these tires were designed for.  I've been to the Dragon/Blue Ridge/Cherahola twice on 'em, but I'm not a very agressive rider and don't realize any deficit to the handling.

So like the smart people on this site have already said, there is no optimum tire for the connie, just optimum tires for the way you ride. 
 
After reading all the info on the forum I decided to go with the Avon Storm 2 Ultra in the 120/70ZR-18 in the front.  I had it installed today and the handling improvement from the Dunlop 205 in the 110/80R-18 was immediately noticeable.

I plan to put the Avon Azaro ST AV46 on the rear when the Dunlop 205 is worn down.
 
I've run stock Dunlops (only got about 6K miles/set), ME880's (wear like iron, wet handling is less than stellar), Pilot GT (had a great balance between handling wet or dry and tire wear, unfortunately no longer in production) and currently have the Avon Azaro/Storm combination (seems a bit "nervous" on the slab but handling wet or dry is excellent, tire mileage TBD).
 
ya its a really bummer that the Pilot GT's are no longer produced. I'm very happy how they have worn and would have bought another set if they had been available.
 
My GT's are done.  Would like to try the BT-45.  Where to get a deal and what size do you suggest for my 05?

PS Very disapointed that my front GT devloped a 6 in bulge on tread. 1/2 the tire left but now worthless.
 
Back a while ago, my Pilot GT front did the same thing. There have been others too. We are not alone. At the time I posted about mine someone had  a link to a recall by Michelin for a different series Pilot tire, but had the same/similar failure mode as we are seeing on the Pilot GT's.  I used to have a pic of it posted but I must have deleted from my site as its now a red X.

 
BT45's are $205 range shipped from MS Superstore

You'll get the stock size rear at 150/80-16.

For the front they do not make a 120/70-18 they only have the 110/80-18. The 110/80-18 is the one you want. If you read back through this thread, you will see that except for the factory dunflop 120/70-18 tires most ( all that I know of ) 120/70's are designed for a 3.5 inch wheel and your 05 Connie will have a 3.0" wheel.  3.5" is the min width and 3.75 is the max width.

As it turns out the 110/80 is designed for a 2.5" wheel as its minimum width ( also the stock wheel on the 86-93 model years ) and a 3.0" wheel as its maximum width ( the stock wheel on the 94-06 ). So it fits both models quite nicely.
 
It used to be funny to saythe best tires are "black and round", but given the fact that almost everyone in the industry has given up on the Connie sizes, even after a full 20 year run on the model is very discouraging.
 
BT-45's Ordered -arrived - look good - off to tire shop [garage 20 deg f-that] we'll see in the spring.
Even got a steal deal on a pair of 023's [003 lasted 3k :eek:] for the busa  Very much thanks. :D
 
Another good tire choice that I have been running on my 2001 Connie is Dunlop Elite E3's. I purchased my bike last year with 41,000 miles on it I know have 53,000 and still have 3 to 4 32nds left. They are the Goldwing size. 160/80/16 Rear and a 130/70/18 on the front. Just an option if you carry extra weight or a passenger.
 
I am running Avon Roadriders on a 98 with a 110/80 front, stock rear.  They have been tested on dry pavement, gravel, rain, ice, and slush so far and have been superb thus far - nary a wiggle.  Waiting on mileage report.  Under 200 for the pair from motorcycle superstore.
 
While it would be nice to have matched pairs more readily available, it looks like the slim choices will continue for the C10. Heard back from Kevin Corbett, a "Technical Service Representative" from Avon. The Storm 2/Azaro ST combination is their sole recommendation for the C10, further stating that they "will not cause any performance issues when used on the same bike." Tire pressure should be 36psi front /42psi rear for solo riding , and 38psi front /45psi rear for two-up riding. Hope the rest of you find this info useful.
 
BrianButler said:
While it would be nice to have matched pairs more readily available, it looks like the slim choices will continue for the C10. Heard back from Kevin Corbett, a "Technical Service Representative" from Avon. The Storm 2/Azaro ST combination is their sole recommendation for the C10, further stating that they "will not cause any performance issues when used on the same bike." Tire pressure should be 36psi front /42psi rear for solo riding , and 38psi front /45psi rear for two-up riding. Hope the rest of you find this info useful.

Good info. thanks!
 
"The Storm 2/Azaro ST combination is their sole recommendation for the C10, further stating that they "will not cause any performance issues when used on the same bike."

But look out if you mount a Storm on one bike and the Azaro on a different bike, that's hazardous!  :eek:
 
Just went to the Storm/Azaro combo on my 2000 (old ones were Dunlop 700/701's). The difference was UNBELIEVABLE. Really. A little pricey, yes. Great improvement, also yes. No idea how long they'll  last, but they are amazing. This combo was recommended by others here.
 
Just did some measurements and math on my Avon Venoms in GW sizes.  Looks like the front tire will give me 22,500 miles and the rear 38,000 miles.  But what is missing is the non-linear ratio of wear to mileage, because as the tire diameter gets smaller the number of rotations per mile increases and therefore there is more tire wear per mile. One of you engineers wanna help me out here?

Front 130/70B18 with Aramid belts, initial tread depth 4.7 mm  After 14,473 miles, tread depth is now 3.3.  Minimum tread depth is 1.0 mm, so I have 2.3 mm left on the tire.   

Rear 160/80B16 with Aramid belts, initial tread depth is 8.7 mm.  Same mileage as above, tread depth is now 5.0 mm.  Minimum tread depth (for 80 MPH) is 3.0 mm

What I want to know is how many miles to expect out of these tires at these wear rates.  Thanks!
 
I think there are so many other variables I think any calculations done with regard to tire diameter change would be lost in the noise.
 
@ Volcantour - It'd be great to put all of our faith in just that one factor... tread depth. Not sure how many miles you ride in a season. My goal is 5000-6000 miles. I'll change my tires every two years, even if they don't look visibly worn. About $400 (including labor) every two years is a small price to pay for the reassurance of safe passage. Happy trails!
 
Thanks.  Am trying to schedule/budget when to buy new tires.  I did the 14K miles since November 09, or 16 months.  Figuring at that rate that I will need new rear tire about eight months from now??
 
A rule to survive by... when on two wheels, always err on the side of caution. If you have to ask if you should wait... you probably shouldn't!
 
Volcantour said:
Just did some measurements and math on my Avon Venoms in GW sizes.  Looks like the front tire will give me 22,500 miles and the rear 38,000 miles.  But what is missing is the non-linear ratio of wear to mileage, because as the tire diameter gets smaller the number of rotations per mile increases and therefore there is more tire wear per mile. One of you engineers wanna help me out here?
Blinded by science.  ::)
 
Just read every entry in the "New Tech Article  94-06 Tire Fitment," begun by Colin. I received confirmation from Avon, confirming that the Storm 2/Azaro ST pairing is their sole recommendation for the C10, with no plans to expand the offerings.

But, apparently there's an issue with Avon's 120/70 properly fitting the stock rim, and some of you are more content with a 110/80.

So... what is the better (i.e. "safer") choice for the front, a 110/80-18, or the 120/70-18? Any problems with overall width, diameter? Those who have opted for the 110/80... why? Better handling, stability, wear? Any drawbacks?

Maybe we can all pitch in, build a factory, and fabricate our own tires... BRILLIANT! 
 
"Any problems with overall width, diameter? Those who have opted for the 110/80... why? Better handling, stability, wear? Any drawbacks?"

A Mich PR2 110/80 fits well and feels great on my 03.
Too early for wear yet.
 
Not quite apples to apples, like doing a storm 2 in 120/70 and then 110/80 back to back. But I did a Dunlop D205 in the stock 120/70 and now doing a Bridgestone BT45 in the 110/80 size back to back.

To me the D205 always felt twitchy, nervious feeling. I always felt like I have to make constant minute corrections. The BT45 does not have that nervious feeling. Feels more stable.  Those are my pics in the Fitment article. Thats was my D205 with the calipers showing how its pinched. So in hindsight I wonder if that pinching is why it always had that twitchy feeling. I went from 2 sets of very stable wing size tires to a pinched D205. 

The BT45 in 110/80 as you can see in my pics from the article is not pinched at all. It maintained its same width both before and after mounting. To me it does not have the twitchy feeling. From a handling / steering input point of view  the D205 and BT45 feel pretty much the same. When I went from ME880's to Pilot GT's I noticed right off now much quicker and lighter the steering was for Pig Wing Tars. Then again when going from the Pilot GT's to the D205's I notice right off quicker and lighter steering. When going from the D205 to the BT45 I did not really notice any change in that regard. Still steers the same, but got lots of that stable feeling back.
 
From a "safer" point of view, I dont think I would worry. Go with what feels more comfortable to you.  There are so many Connies out there with 120/70 radials that I think we as a collective group would hear about it if there was a serious problem.
 
From a Liability point of view, there are many dealers and shops that will only sell and install the stock size tires that came on the bike. So a 120/70 is all you might get from them. And there was one report I heard where insurance denied a claim or at least tried to, because the owner did not have the stock size tires on the bike.

But what happens when the Lawyers figure out tires have specs, and were installing tires on wheels that are outside the specifications. Were screwed. Its Dunlop 700/701 are the only thing that I know of that meets all 3 criteria in terms of being Radial tires, that come in the 120/70 size that fit a 3.0 inch wheel according to the tire specs.

Lawyers will be the death of us, forcing us to ride on them things.
 
From a width point of view the tire size calulators say a 120/70 is supposed to be 4.72 inches and a 110/80 4.33 inches.
My 120/70 D205 only measured 4.45 mounted -- .27 inches
My 110/80 BT45 only measured 4.33 mounted -- right on the money


From a Diameter point of view a 127/70 is supposed to be 24.61 inches and a 110/80 24.93 inches. This is a little bit taller, but fits fine and has no clearance issues. A 130/70 Wing Tar is supposed to be 25.17 inches and we have tons of COG riders with those and have logged milliosn of miles with them. So I dont think will see much diameter issues. -- Side note from my speedo error factor from the 120/70 and 110/80 I suspect the pinching of the tire also increases the height as well as pinch the width.   
 
Post whore.....

Overall I dont see any real down side to switching to 110/80 other than liability issues should you get into a law suit or a scrap with your insurance company.

Although one could ask why did momma K switch from the 110/80 of the 86-93 years to the 120/70 of the 94-06 years, in the first place. Did they feel the Connie was too heavy for the narrower 110 size and go to the 120 for a wider foot print to distribute weight better.  -- I just made that up. But it is an interesting question.
 
Bones that is a good question, but remember that the OEM 120/70 Dunlop tire they went to doesn't really measure like a true 120/70 tire.  It's actually as close to the 110/80 as it is to a true 120/70.  Kinda mid-sized.
 
So, my dealer over here is "encouraging" me to put on a set of the OE Dunlops.  I bought mine with some well used Avons.  I'm tempted to go back to the Avons, but are the OE's junk?
 
I just put on a second set. I got the front new/preowned for $50 so I was obligated to put on the rear as well. I liked the first set and ran them the 13,500 miles. I commute mostly flat freeway and the rear had a wide flat spot and the front had a strong center left, falling off near bald till sidewall. I had to drive it into corners but never got close to a dump on them. It depends on what you want from them. I put dynabeads in them hoping for even better wear patterning and less cupping from the front. Time will tell. Avons reportedly are better tires but wear faster.
 
I ran two sets of the OE Dunlops. They were OK at best but I didn't get great tire mileage from the (~6-7K miles/set). I went to the ME880 Metzlers in 1500 GoldWing size; got phenomenol mileage but only fair grip in the wet.  I ran two sets of them too.  Next I tried the Michelin Pilot GT in the 1500 'Wing size and ABSOLUTELY loved them. They offered grip in all conditions and very good tire mileage. Then Michelin stopped production. Bummer!  Right now I've got a set of Avon Azaro/Storm on it. I'm pretty impressed with the grip but the bike is considerably more "nervous" in dirty air (like around semi's). Fortunately I don't have to do a lot of slab riding so ... . I'm waiting to see how the mileage compares but I'm pretty sure it's going to be in the 6-7K range which is less than ideal IMO but grip vs mileage is almost always a trade-off.

Many folks report serious cupping with the OE Dunlops. I never had issue with that on my bike. YMMV.
 
Ranger Jim said:
I'm pretty impressed with the grip but the bike is considerably more "nervous" in dirty air (like around semi's). Fortunately I don't have to do a lot of slab riding so ... .

Are you using the 120/70 size on the front?
 
Yes, my Avons are "stock" size for my 2000 C10. I attribute the "nervousness" to the more triangular profile of the tire over the more rounded profile of the Pilot GT's. I don't find it a big deal and the bike does feel more nimble; e.g. turn in is quicker and turns are easier to initiate. She's just a bit twitchy in the disturbed air around vehicles. As I said though, YMMV.
 
Having ridden on Wing Tars including a set of Pilot GT right before moving to a 120/70 sized radial on the front. I too felt the same nervous twitchy feeling with the 120/70. Switching to the 110/80 size front tire gave me the same nice feel in terms of steering input and handling, but got rid of that twitchy feeling.  I attribute more of that triangle profile to the fact the 120/70 is pinched on the 3.0" wheel. Going to the 110/80 will give the profile the design engineers intended.
 
I'm having information overload reading this thread. It would be nice if we could have a survey/poll for the 3 or 4 main tire choices for handling, wet handling, stability and wear. Nevermind price.
 
IMO, it's a "pick two" and see how they feel and last game.  ;)
Unless you're springing for a 17" rear wheel upgrade the rear tire choices are limited.
 
Dunno about anyone else but I was spinning up the rear in 3rd gear on a highway merge this morning.
on the stock dunlops ya the roads where damp but its been raining for past week figured the oil had to be washed away by now.

That got my heart pumping. please tell me the avons have a bit more stick in the wet.

 
I just had another set of Avon Storm/Azaro tires put on my 1998 Concours.  This time, I had the Storm 2 front tire put on, in the 110/80x18 size instead of 120/70.  It has only been a couple hundred miles so far, but the 110/80 tire fits fine, seems to be closer to the original, "odd" 120/70 Dunlop K701 tires originally fitted, and the speedometer/odometer appear to still be pretty accurate.    I am hoping that this front tire lasts better and doesn't cup heavily like the previous 120/70 D205 Dunlop or, to a lesser extent, the Avon Storm 120/70 which were the previous (2) front tires on the bike.    I got about 7K miles out of the last set - the rear tire could have likely gone a bit more, but I just prefer the feel of fresh new tires all around when I replace them.  After reading the tech article posted on the forum, I became fairly convinced that the author(s) were on the right track about rim width and tire profile distortion.  I am thinking that the squeezed in profile from shoehorning the "normal" 120/70 tires which require a 3.5" rim width contributes to the odd wearing in, excessive turn in and cupping patterns that seems too common with them.  We'll see how things go with this "undistorted" 110/80 Avon Storm 2 on front..
 
GSGSXJay said:
Rev Rider said:
I'm a Dunflop hater hater hater (yeah, that bad).  But now that I have 17" rims and can run any tire I want... I've got a set of Roadsmarts on there and I like em a lot.  Hated the 205s though... hate hate hate.  Sorry, cuppin', squarin'-off, no stickin', so and sos.  :mad:

There, I feel better now.  ;)
They were MUCH better than the OEM rubber.
The Dunlop RoadSmart front tire is much better than the Dunlop D205 front tire because of the multiple compound tread.  Too bad Dunlop hasn't made a RoadSmart tire in 150/80-16.  :(

If the manufacturers decide to quit making the C10 sized tires in the near future I'm going to make a beeline to get 17" rims OR get another bike.


So I have a new Dunlop rear on the bike, I think it's a 205 -- whatever the stock tires are. Just got it last summer. Now the front has a little bit of dry rot in the center of the tread and I want to replace it. Can I run a RoadSmart front and a stock 205 rear? Would that be beneficial?
 
I like my 110 sized PR2 up front, best front tar yet on my C10.
The Dunlop K700 rear never really inspired much confidence.
I'll probably try out a Venom rear once I wear out my Pilot GT's assuming the bike lasts that long.  ;)
 
Zorlac said:
I like my 110 sized PR2 up front, best front tar yet on my C10.
The Dunlop K700 rear never really inspired much confidence.
I'll probably try out a Venom rear once I wear out my Pilot GT's assuming the bike lasts that long.  ;)

So your running a PR2 Front / Pilot GT rear ?

 
cool. Been thinking about a PR2 front, with a BT-45 rear. Not near as good of mileage as the Pilot GT rear, but stock size, handles well, traction, gets better mileage that an Avon Azaro and aprox $35 cheaper than the Avon, V rated bias.

But then my BT45 front is doing pretty well. Got 12K on it and its got like left in it yet. So I might just stick with that.
 
Lately I have been thinking about this in terms of cost to go 15K miles.  Gross generalization....

With Avons you need 2 Azaro rears to 1 Storm front ( not sure of anyone is getting 15K on the Storm but its much better than the old Azaro front ). Using MS superstore thats $425 in cost. But you get radial tires, z rated, best handling and traction.

With the BT45's its still 2 to 1, rear to front but only at $318. You get V rated bias, but still has handling and traction close to the Avons.

With the Wing Tars we can get by with one set and get 20K plus for some of them. $300 a set. But now we have H rated bias, with slow steering and moderate traction.

This is where Pilot GT's were nice. 15K H rated bias, but had much better steering and good traction. At $279 a set ( or was it $259 that one time ). Why Michelin, why.

17" rear is the way to go. Now we get 1 set with 14K-15K mileage. No 2 to 1 deal. Were back down to $275-$280. And we get Z rated radials with the handling and the traction.  But costs $300-$600 to get there, depending on route taken.

At aprox $150 savings per 15K over Avons you can pay for the 17" rear in 2 sets. 30K miles.

At aprox $50 savings per 15K over BT45's 6 sets to pay for itself. 90K miles to payback.

So it all was me wondering what to try next. How serious to try and hunt down a 17" rear. Just missed one the other day on ebay. Or wait for the ever elusive Avon Storm 3 that fits our rear.

 
Don't like to see the word "elusive" preceding Avon's "Storm 3." Are there any of you out in Cogdom, who have an inside track on the release date? I just heard about this tire from Steve Smith. I could use some new treads, although the current pair is still OK. I'll (safely) hold off for a while longer if their production is imminent! I just hope that it will as good a tire as the Storm 2 and Azaro. We C10 riders need it!
 
Wow, 7 pages - it needs a summary post although Slybones is a pretty good summary.  I couldn't find the Pilot GT's so is the is Michelin Pilot Road (1, 2, or 3s) a replacement?
 
olivr2 said:
Wow, 7 pages - it needs a summary post although Slybones is a pretty good summary.  I couldn't find the Pilot GT's so is the is Michelin Pilot Road (1, 2, or 3s) a replacement?

oh, that due to no back tire for the Pilots...
 
think the summary is.

In stock sizes
OEM or Avons

I prefer the Avon by a wide margin but that could just be old tire v new tire.  I rode the last 2k miles out of the OEMs (8 year old rubber) then 2k on new Avons.

 
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