You can also use WD40 to drive the water out (hence the name, WD: Water displayer). Works great and is why the product was created in the first place, to dispel water.
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Dead Engine at Highway Speeds
- Thread starter davidhhubbs6694
- Start date
Usually fog the tank with it as it can also help prevent flash rust.
Okay got the tank free of water and put new gasoline in. Still some rust in tank, but external fuel filter is showing clean.
Was able to get it to run, but idle is rough and I'm getting ups and downs with popping here and there. I'm wondering if that's left over water or maybe the carbs got clogged again since I forgot to drain those last night.
Still is only running with choke on, but I didn't let it get fully warmed up. The popping worried me.
Edit: white smoke from the exhaust
Was able to get it to run, but idle is rough and I'm getting ups and downs with popping here and there. I'm wondering if that's left over water or maybe the carbs got clogged again since I forgot to drain those last night.
Still is only running with choke on, but I didn't let it get fully warmed up. The popping worried me.
Edit: white smoke from the exhaust
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No fluid in the cylinders though
It is running very rich. My pilot screws are 1-3/4 turns out instead of the 2-1/2 turns it was at when I bought it.
I know the choke is stuck partially on, but it idles at 900 with the choke "off"
If I blip the throttle it lags, heads up to 7k rpm then falls back down.
Starting to think I just want a fuel injected bike from here on out. Sell this thing and get a Triumph or Honda... I'm done for the day fixing this thing.
It is running very rich. My pilot screws are 1-3/4 turns out instead of the 2-1/2 turns it was at when I bought it.
I know the choke is stuck partially on, but it idles at 900 with the choke "off"
If I blip the throttle it lags, heads up to 7k rpm then falls back down.
Starting to think I just want a fuel injected bike from here on out. Sell this thing and get a Triumph or Honda... I'm done for the day fixing this thing.
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Sounds like there is either still water or contaminated gas in the carbs, or debris clogging jets or passages.
The first thing I'd try is draining the carbs and flushing them a bit with the petcock on prime before you close the drain screws. Water will sit at the bottom of the bowls, right where all the jets are, and may not completely drain on the first try.
If the enrichment plungers ("choke") are sticking partway open, that may cause it to run rich. Short of taking the carbs apart, you can try some silicone spray on the rubber seals. They can get sticky with debris, and get hard. Replacing them is ideal, and I usually do if they are over 20 years old, but some silicone spray should help.
The first thing I'd try is draining the carbs and flushing them a bit with the petcock on prime before you close the drain screws. Water will sit at the bottom of the bowls, right where all the jets are, and may not completely drain on the first try.
If the enrichment plungers ("choke") are sticking partway open, that may cause it to run rich. Short of taking the carbs apart, you can try some silicone spray on the rubber seals. They can get sticky with debris, and get hard. Replacing them is ideal, and I usually do if they are over 20 years old, but some silicone spray should help.
I did drain the bowls before firing it up with new clean gas. But it still sputters and pops. I'm going to try again sometime with the pilot screws out and choke disconnected.
Sputters and pops could be a vacuum leak particularly on the engine side of the carb manifolds. CV carbs are sensitive to that.
Try spraying with WD40 around those areas while the bike is running to see if you get an idle increase - if so you found a vacuum leak. Could be as simple as a loose band clamp or cracks in the rubber manifolds.
You can do the same with water mist which would cause an idle decrease when sprayed at a vacuum leak.
Try spraying with WD40 around those areas while the bike is running to see if you get an idle increase - if so you found a vacuum leak. Could be as simple as a loose band clamp or cracks in the rubber manifolds.
You can do the same with water mist which would cause an idle decrease when sprayed at a vacuum leak.
Yeah, or a cracked vacuum cap on the extra nipple(s) on the engine side of the carb. I've had those caps fail in just a couple years and split open. I should probably look for some better quality ones than what the local parts store has.
Other vacuum leak possibilities is the exhaust air system, if you still have it. The lines to the vacuum valve and vacuum valve diaphragm too.
I do think that there is a vacuum leak somewhere because I'm hearing a slight whistling sound when it's running and I know for a fact the right exhaust is leaking on the bottom where the muffler clamps on so I'm going to have to plug that hole. Thank you for the help with the sputtering I wouldn't have thought it was a vacuum issue I would have constantly thought it was a fuel issue and upon further investigation looks like the carb is really hard to get back into those boots so I might just buy new ones or soak the rubber boots and carb holders on the engine side to get them new again
New carb boots make the job easier, but new airbox boots make the job even easier. You won't realize how soft they are supposed to be until you have new ones. Murph has both for good prices.
You can get by with a heat gun or soaking in hot water for a very short-term softening (minutes, until they cool down). For a few weeks of softness, you can soak in 3:1 alcohol and oil of wintergreen. It will get them to near-new softness, but they do harden up as the wintergreen oil evaporates out over the course of a few weeks. I soak for a day or two on thin parts, and up to a week on thicker ones . They will swell up quite a bit, but come back to size in a day or two.
If I was prioritizing expenses, I'd buy new airbox boots and do the wintergreen treatment on the carb boots.
Oh, and use silicone oil or spray for assembly. It makes rubber stuff go together so much easier!
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Ladies and gentlemen I think we did it. Got it to idle for 5 minutes perfectly. Rode it up and down the parking lot of my apartment just fine. Smokes a little at the bottom of the engine, but I'm guessing that's years work of oil and coolant on the manifolds. That haven't been burned off until now. Going to take it on the highway tomorrow in the daylight. Will report back.
Fuel was just full of water.
HOWEVER
I'm still getting fuel starvation at 50mph and above. Doesn't matter what gear I'm in. Even with gas cap open. I set up the fuel line to show a fuel filter so I can just look down on it. I see the fuel filter is full most of the time until I get up to speed. Then I can watch it decrease with how much fuel is in it until it's sucking air and the engine stalls. However if I stop and crank the engine a few times, the filter fills up again. No problems at 40mph. Just 50+
I'm guessing either there's not enough vacuum to pull fuel(even when I leave the petcock on prime), the fuel line is too long, and/or the K&N mesh fuel filter causes too much resistance.
Last time when I tried the fuel filter off it still starved.
This time I might try to increase the amount of fuel in the carb bowls.
But hey, I rode around town at 35mph for an hour just fine today. First time in months that it's ran that well. Still rough idle and such. Maybe the carbs need to be dunked in a huge ultrasonic bath to get them really clear. I did my best to clean them again, but who knows.
You really don't want to raise the fuel level in the carbs beyond OEM recommendations.
Could just be the fuel line. If it has too much bend, or is too long, it could be kinking enough with engine heat depending on what its made of, so as to not sustain cruising at higher speeds than 40.
I use NAPA 3006 (or Wix 33006 equivalent) right angle fuel filters so the fuel line doesn't have much bend in it, from the carb feed to the filter, then from the filter to the petcock.
Point the fuel filter's 90 degree barb down between the back of carbs 2 and three.
What's the status of the petcock? How does it look inside, and how does the screen look?
Brand new. Literally brand new lol
I should clarify it also did the same thing with the old petcock
Fuel system is gravity feed. If the fuel filter is getting low on fuel, there isn't enough fuel getting to the filter. The engine is using more fuel than something up stream of the filter can give it. Did you replace the fuel line? Any kink at all will restrict the flow. Too small of diameter line? Cap open eliminates blocked tank venting and prime bypasses vacuum. All that's left is a blockage in the petcock or the line to the filter. With the lines off the petcock do you get good flow in the prime position?
Well the way I set it up the fuel line dips down before going back up and into the bike. Like the little dip in a link's plumbing. It pulls enough has through that up until 50mph
The correct fuel line routing is over the frame and down to the carb rack center tee (wrong). I was also wondering if the carbs had a 2 minute mod kit installed? It'll run really lean without blocking off a portion of the one of the airbox intakes. If the main jets in the carbs have their size markings ground off, I'd be suspicious.
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I'm pretty sure the routing should be under the frame. The tank sits pretty close to the frame, and the petcock is below it anyway.
But yes, agree that it should be a smooth run, level or sloping down without any dips or kinks. The line should come up off the carb tee between the two carbs, in front of the rear crossbar that ties them together.
You made me go and look. I stand corrected. In that area it's pretty much just the frame backbone. So there should be no frame intruding on the fuel line routing. One could say, "Near the carbs, the line is under the backbone of the frame." Just make the fuel line length so it doesn't have a kink, droop or upward bend before it takes a turn down to the carbs.
I added a photo of how it should look. That orange object is a 3006 type fuel filter, as shown earlier in the thread.
You can't see beyond the filter, but it drops straight down to the inlet tee with a short piece of hose.
I added a photo of how it should look. That orange object is a 3006 type fuel filter, as shown earlier in the thread.
You can't see beyond the filter, but it drops straight down to the inlet tee with a short piece of hose.
Attachments
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That is exactly how the fuel line should be routed.
Dean
Dean
Funnily enough the prime position hardly works now. It did before. Maybe there is some sort of blockage. But this is a new petcock. The whole start of this thread was fuel starvation so I'm not sure what's going on anymore. Maybe I don't have enough vacuum? I'll try a shorter fuel line without the filter.
Have you specifically checked your airbox for leaks? Check all the seams. The one facing the engine along the bottom was broken open on my 86. Be sure the airbox inlet horns are present. If a previous owner of your bike installed the 2 Minute Mod and there's no foam piece partially blocking one of the airbox inlets, you will be running lean/starving for fuel.
I didn't see anything strange inside/around the airbox. It all looks completely stock. I'm pretty sure the whole bike was stock except for the previous owner putting in a fuel filter. I have a K&N fuel filter in it right now. One of the large ones.
David, look at the lower front corner of the airbox at the leading edge. Do this with the K&N filter installed.
If you have a leak, it is more apparent with the filter in. Looks like a crack.
NOTE: The thing that most suspect caused the crack to form "was" installation of a K&N Filter as it fits so tight.
Ride safe, Ted
PS: Did you ever check the spark plug boots that was mentioned previously?
I had a similar problem and after rebuilding the carbs/having Steve rebuild the carbs/replacing petcock/rejetting/changing foam size in airbox/etc etc etc,,, I discovered that the problem was resistance in the spark plug boots.
If you have a leak, it is more apparent with the filter in. Looks like a crack.
NOTE: The thing that most suspect caused the crack to form "was" installation of a K&N Filter as it fits so tight.
Ride safe, Ted
PS: Did you ever check the spark plug boots that was mentioned previously?
I had a similar problem and after rebuilding the carbs/having Steve rebuild the carbs/replacing petcock/rejetting/changing foam size in airbox/etc etc etc,,, I discovered that the problem was resistance in the spark plug boots.
I'm noticing how tight it is as well. I'm tempted to shave down the foam seal on the K&N or replace it with something softer. It was a bear getting the wedge out to remove it, and now I see why.
Except for the broken flange for the filter cover, my airbox is intact. If I can modify the K&N to avoid future damages that would be nice.
Just a opinion.......have taken the gasket off the K& N. It will still fit snug in airbox. Have also shaved the wedge slightly to give some relief so it's not so tight.
Low fuel flow in prime. This is not a vacuum problem. Prime bypasses the vacuum. In the on or reserve position I have used a syringe to pull vacuum and check the flow. Some will just suck on a vacuum line, might get gas in your mouth if petcock is bad so not recommended. Brake vacuum bleeding kit will work also.
When you replaced the petcock did you look for debris around the opening of the tank and on the screen attached to the petcock?
Just a thought; David, do you have 1 vacuum hose connected to the petcock?
(That 1 hose should come from the #2 carburetor).
Reason I ask; We once had someone that T'd his vacuum line and hooked it to 2 carburetors. (thinking it would supply more vacuum)
The result was fuel starvation because T'ing the vacuum hose to 2 carburetors stops vacuum at higher RPM's.
After he changed to 1 hose, the problem was solved.
You keep saying that it starts to stumble at 50+ mph.
That isn't giving us the info we need. We need clarification.
ie; Running out of fuel is more RPM related than Speed rated.
What gear are you in when it stops accelerating?
If you're referring to a higher gear, will it accelerate to higher RPM's "in" the lower gears?
Have you tried going above 50 with the petcock in prime?
Another thought.; Have you checked the fuel level to each of the carbs?
EZ to do.
1) Attach a clear piece of tubing to a carb and hold the other end higher than the Carb.
2) Put the petcock in Prime.
3) Open the drain screw on that carburetor and watch the fuel level rise in the tubing.
The fuel level should stop near the top edge of the fuel bowl.
4) Do the same test on each carburetor and give us the results.
Ride safe, Ted
PS: Where are you located? Maybe someone is near you that could help.
(That 1 hose should come from the #2 carburetor).
Reason I ask; We once had someone that T'd his vacuum line and hooked it to 2 carburetors. (thinking it would supply more vacuum)
The result was fuel starvation because T'ing the vacuum hose to 2 carburetors stops vacuum at higher RPM's.
After he changed to 1 hose, the problem was solved.
You keep saying that it starts to stumble at 50+ mph.
That isn't giving us the info we need. We need clarification.
ie; Running out of fuel is more RPM related than Speed rated.
What gear are you in when it stops accelerating?
If you're referring to a higher gear, will it accelerate to higher RPM's "in" the lower gears?
Have you tried going above 50 with the petcock in prime?
Another thought.; Have you checked the fuel level to each of the carbs?
EZ to do.
1) Attach a clear piece of tubing to a carb and hold the other end higher than the Carb.
2) Put the petcock in Prime.
3) Open the drain screw on that carburetor and watch the fuel level rise in the tubing.
The fuel level should stop near the top edge of the fuel bowl.
4) Do the same test on each carburetor and give us the results.
Ride safe, Ted
PS: Where are you located? Maybe someone is near you that could help.
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I don't understand the hose question. I have all the hoses in the correct places. It is the stock setup.
The fuel starvation seems to happen at speed even in higher gears at lower RPMs. In fact when shifting to top gear the fuel seems to run out faster or maybe it's just an illusion since the fuel is already not being pulled fast enough.
I have tried with it on prime, I believe I mentioned that in a previous post. Doesn't help, sadly.
It will rev to higher RPMs in lower gears and speeds, but it doesn't seem to suck as much fuel as fast. But it still will starve if I keep at a high RPM at low speed.
The fuel level on the carbs is correct. I used the clear tube method.
I'm in San Diego which just had a lot of rain so my Connie just sat under about 2 feet of water for a few hours........yay.......
Post 126 has me curious . Just for the heck of it , try blocking one side of the airbox inlets . As stated , if the bike has the 2 minute mod jetting and some of the airbox is not blocked off , the bike will not run right . Still sounds like fuel line routing though but worth a try .
So is this 2 minute mod a different set of jets? It should have stock jets. It's a cheap ebay kid labeled "ZG1000 Carburetor Rebuild Kit"
I'm not sure if that would effect anything if it's the same jet size. If it's getting too much air, wouldn't it be running lean instead of rich? Or I guess if air goes up the fuel goes up at the same rate.
I'm not sure if that would effect anything if it's the same jet size. If it's getting too much air, wouldn't it be running lean instead of rich? Or I guess if air goes up the fuel goes up at the same rate.
Okay folks, I was able to take in on the highway! Was able to do miles at 65, maybe 4 miles at 80, and 2 miles at 90. Didn't have a single problem except the choppy wind making me think my engine was cutting out. Now that I confirmed it works, I'll change all the fluids, brake pads, filter, etc.
I think what got it working was a combination of a new fuel cap, new petcock, and removing the fuel filter.
I think what got it working was a combination of a new fuel cap, new petcock, and removing the fuel filter.
That's great David! So glad you were successful!
Thanks for the congrats. We've had a lot of rain so I haven't been riding this week. Today I took it to the beach and it was mostly fine. I still felt here and there like it was stuttering from lack of fuel. Exhaust just smells like 2006 nasty exhaust and not fuel. No other weird smells. I was wondering if the half second loss of power here and there was the clutch slipping, but when I WOT its fine - or so it seems.
However with the rain I noticed that if I take off the gas return tube it will leak a hood 1/8 cup of water even with the new gas cap. It did this with the old gas cap. The tube doesn't have a real return to the tank - it just goes to the plastic cover for the fuel gauge floaty thing. Is this normal for water to collect like that? I'm guessing the tube is blocked because water comes out of the tank nipple the tube attaches to.
However with the rain I noticed that if I take off the gas return tube it will leak a hood 1/8 cup of water even with the new gas cap. It did this with the old gas cap. The tube doesn't have a real return to the tank - it just goes to the plastic cover for the fuel gauge floaty thing. Is this normal for water to collect like that? I'm guessing the tube is blocked because water comes out of the tank nipple the tube attaches to.
I bet you my carbs are out of sync. I'll take care of that next week and report back
Finally synced carbs...I'm pretty sure they're good.
Also does anyone know where this pile of wires is supposed to go? They haven't been plugged into anything since I got the bike and the previous owner didn't have any fairings. All electronics work as far as I know.
Also does anyone know where this pile of wires is supposed to go? They haven't been plugged into anything since I got the bike and the previous owner didn't have any fairings. All electronics work as far as I know.
Judging from the inline fuse, connector styles, and split corrugated wire loom, that appears to be the remains of some previous aftermarket electrical farkles. Does it have leads run back to the battery or junction box? There are also some factory always-on accessory leads up on the left side of the front fairing stay (multiple-barrel female bullet connectors). It's possible they tapped into there.
If you can trace them back to the source and isolate and remove them, it might be good insurance against future shorts or other grief. At the very least, securely tape up any open ends and zip-tie it securely where it can't get caught on anything.
If you can trace them back to the source and isolate and remove them, it might be good insurance against future shorts or other grief. At the very least, securely tape up any open ends and zip-tie it securely where it can't get caught on anything.