Driving lights - tapping into Headlight vs. installing switch

[hawkdriver]

Coggers - I'm just getting back on my bike after a three year hiatus due to an overseas deployment.  Having said that, I've lost a lot of the knowledge you guys shared with me.  My question is about a set of FF50s I want to install.

If I understand correctly, if I tapped into my lo beam wire, that would end up powering the relay?  If that is correct, that means the relay won't route power to the lights until the starter button has been pressed, correct?  If I turn on high beams, would that turn of my lights?

How does, if at all, this differ from installing a switch on the console?

What is the difference if I don't tap into my headlight, just run leads to my fuse block and to a switch on the dash?

TIA for your patience.  I've been searching for old posts about this, but not much luck.  If you have any links, I'll gladly head to those for some info.

 

[Outback_Jon]

If I understand correctly, if I tapped into my lo beam wire, that would end up powering the relay?  If that is correct, that means the relay won't route power to the lights until the starter button has been pressed, correct?  If I turn on high beams, would that turn of my lights?

Yes, that's correct.  The driving lights would turn off when the high beam was on.  In some states that is required to be legal.

How does, if at all, this differ from installing a switch on the console?
What is the difference if I don't tap into my headlight, just run leads to my fuse block and to a switch on the dash?

Depending on where you sourced the power from, the switch on the console could allow you to have the driving lights on all the time.  Or, if you're going for lights that are only on with the low beams, you could still put a switch in the wire that would trigger the relay.  This would allow you to keep the driving lights off at all times if you wish.  (Depending on the beam pattern of the driving lights, this might be desirable if you ride into fog.)

 

[Mettler1]

If you tap into the headlight wiring you should really get this.

                      http://www.murphskits.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_28&products_id=102

  The Concours headlight wiring is pretty anemic as is. Using Murphs' wiring made my headlight brighter!!

 

[hawkdriver]

Thanks fellas.  Basically I'm tapping into the headlight wiring so it doesn't come on until the bike is running, right?  Otherwise, I don't need to do I?

 

[gottaride]

I`m in the same boat. Currently I`ve got a set of 20 degree ditch filler flood driving lights that are wired independantly from the Murph's headlight harness running back to a switched fuse block. I went this route so that the driving lights could be run as daylight runners for conspicuity as well as nighttime use. Hawkdriver I don't know if the FF50's are suitable as daylight runners but it's a good idea to have some. They draw a fair bit o'juice right? What other farkles are you running that may add up to system overload??
I`m adding another set of lights to brighten up the distant middle portion of the roadway since the headlight doesn't cut the mustard. The 10 degree spots for the job could be plugged into the aux lights leads that come with the Murph's harness but that would only allow usage with the hi beams on. Being able to choose which lights run independently of the headlight will allow maximum flexibility. The main drawback to this is not being able to switch off the hibeam with one or both sets of driving lights.
Since the spots are being mounted up high near the mirror bellows I'm hoping that careful aiming will keep the spots out of on coming traffic. Either way the two small rocker switches that control the driving lights will be placed so that my right thumb can easily and quickly toggle them in addition to the stock hibeam switch if it reveals itself to be an issue on busy roads.

 

[Jorge]

Welcome home, and thanks for your service :great:

If you want to control the lights, regardless of whether they go on with low or high beams, you can tap into one of the running lights near the mirrors. The red/blue wire is powered whenever the ignition is turned on. Since you're only driving a relay (less than 200 mA), and the actual power for the lights is coming separately, this will not hurt the circuit.
Tap into the red/blue wire, take this through a toggle switch, and you can turn the lights on or off as you like, and they will stay on whether on low or high beams.
I wanted them more for conspicuity, so I leave them on almost 100% of the time. Had them this way for several years and works we intended.

Jorge

 

[Alcan_Rider]

Using a relay, it is assumed you will be feeding power to the #30 terminal with a fused lead from the battery.  This lead needs to be heavy enough to handle all the amperage the relay is rated for to preclude voltage loss, as is common with OEM wiring.  The Murphskit referred to above accomplishes that.  For pilot (or switching/signalling) power to terminal #86, you can tap into your low beam wiring (if you want the relay activated with low beams) or high beam wiring (if the relay is to come on with high beams).  The relay(s) will then turn on your accessory lights at the same time the corresponding headlight is on, and off when the headlight beam goes off. 

In the nearly 40 years I've been installing driving and fog lights on cars, trucks, and motorcycles many times I will also install a dash mounted switch so as to be able to select whether to use the accessory lights or not, as well as to make it possible to have the accessory lights on regardless of the headlight beam.  For the former, a simple toggle switch to open (shut off) the lead to the #86 relay terminal is all that is required.  For the latter, I'll use a double throw On-Off-On toggle (or bat handle) switch.  The middle terminal of the switch is connected to the #86 relay terminal.  One of the two outer switch terminals is from the appropriate headlight beam for the pilot power.  The other switch terminal gets full time (or switched - only when the vehicle is running) power.  Thus, when the toggle is moved in one direction from the center "Off" position it will cause the relay to turn on the accessory light with the proper headlight beam.  The opposite "On" position will turn the relay (and accessory light) on regardless of the headlight beam.  This can be helpful for aiming the lights or if, for some reason, you want fog lights on with your high beam, or high-powered driving lights on with you low headlight beam. 

When I'm wiring in HID long range driving lights, it's done differently, as restarting hot HID's is not conducive to long element life.  For those, I wire a relay as a latching relay and use a momentary-on pushbutton switch mounted close to the bike's dimmer switch.  After the high beams are switched on, the pushbutton switch is pushed, and the HID relay is energized and remains switched on until I switch from high beams to low beams again.  If I want to turn the HID back on, I repeat that procedure.  The reasoning behind this is that when meeting traffic I'll need to dim the HID as much as 5 miles from an oncoming vehicle - the HID's I use are that bright.  But then I'll want to keep my standard high beam on until we're much closer.  Or... sometimes I'll just need to flash my high beam to remind an oncoming driver to dim his lights.  It's not a good idea to flash an HID like that.  The HID can wait until it's clear ahead, then I'll turn it back on.  This is how it works here in rural Alaska, where I can ride for half an hour on a main highway and not meet another vehicle.  The same in the wee hours in Northwest Canada.  But on interstates in the South 48?  How often do you even get to use your standard high beam?  Only in the wee hours on I-80, I-90, I-94 from my experience.

 

[SethInIllinois]

EDIT: I did some investigation on my lights tonight (see photos) and figured out what they are. Appears I've got some vintage obsolete aux lighting tech circa 2002 or 2003 (the bike is a 2002, and I'm pretty sure the original owner installed most of the farkles in the first year or two of ownership).

I'm not sure how many of the original posters are still around, but this was a useful thread for me. I'm sorting through figuring out and making some changes to the auxiliary wiring and lighting on my 2002 C10. It's got a pair of rectangular PIAA Series 1400 55W halogen fog lights (https://www.piaalights.com/details.php?productName=1400 SERIES BLACK HOUSING https://www.piaa.com/store/p/744-1400-Series-Ion-Crystal-Yellow-Fog-Light-Kit.aspx) It's also got a set of round spot-looking lights, which don't have markings on the outside, but the internals indicate Welch-Allyn Solarc 10W Metal Halide (HID) (http://www.lamptech.co.uk/Spec Sheets/D MHS WelchAllyn MR11 10W.htm) They take a bit of time to warm up to full brightness, and are finickily about turning back on. I've never had HIDs on anything, so just learned about them being sensistive to quick cycles per Alcan_Rider's note above.

Everything on the aux fuse block gets power from the headlight latching relay on the JB. The PIAAs were then wired to a relay controlled by an on/off rocker switch on the dash. The HID spots were wired from another relay controlled by a pushbutton on/off switch on the dash. There was another momentary pushbutton switch on the dash, but that appeared to be wired to some kind of radar detector power plug (it looked like a phone jack), but I don't fully understand what that mess of wiring was, so I removed it.

I really like Alcan_Rider's idea of using an on/off/on switch for the fogs/driving so I can manually control them to be off, always on, or on only for low beam. For the HID spots, I'm considering using similar 3-position switch to either power them manually, or linked to the high beams, using a momentary switch wired up to latch the relay, (but would need to add some more circuitry to build a latching relay circuit that uses the aux for power and uses the signal from the high beam).

Anyway, what's the current "best" setup for auxiliary lighting? I have the Ronnie Lyons light bar with those two sets of lights down low. I would prefer to set up the current units for the best operation, but would also be open to getting some more modern LED units. Both sets of lights are obsolete with no replacement bulbs available, so once I run them to the end of their life, I'll have to get something new.

FYI, I've switched all my other bulbs (headlight, tail, and running) to LEDs, so I've got plenty of available power. The bike also has one of the old Murphkits headlight relay kits, which is fed from the aux fuse block.

 

[connie_rider]

Seth, I don't think Murph carries the headlight harness any more.
The headlight plug on a C-10 sometimes overheats or melts. (particularly if you add brighter headlights)
Murph's harness included a plug that was better for high heat applications.

When Murph sold his "headlight" harness, it included a heavy wire that took the power for the head lights directly from the battery to the relay and then to the headlight.
The handlebar switch was attached to the relay circuit in a manner that the switch only saw the power needed to switch the relay on/off . (mili amps)

NOTE: Murph's harness had an auxilliary lead on it that could also be used for driving lights.
I had 1 of his harnesses and used in in this way.

For your application, (adding 4 driving lights) I think a relay should be purchased and installed in a similar way.
ie; Install the relay so that the high amperage draw you will be seeing (20-30 amps) is handled by the relay, not the switch you add.

Murph (or someone here) should be able to supply you with a schematic of Murph's set up.

Ride safe, Ted

 

[SethInIllinois]

Seth, I don't think Murph carries the headlight harness any more.
The headlight plug sometimes overheats or melts. (particularly if you add brighter headlights)
Murph's harness included a plug that was better for high heat applications.

When Murph sold his "headlight" harness, it included a heavy wire that took the power for the head lights directly from the battery to the relay / to the headlight.
The handlebar switch was attached to the relay circuit so that the switch only saw the power needed to switch on/off the relay. (mili amps)

NOTE: Murph's harness had an auxilliary lead on it that could also be used for driving lights.
I had 1 of his harnesses and used in in this way.

For your application, (adding driving lights) I think a relay should be purchased and installed in a similar way.
ie; Install the relay so that the high amperage draw you will be seeing (20-30 amps) is handled by the relay, not the switch you add.

Murph (or someone here) should be able to supply you with a schematic of Murph's set up.

Ride safe, Ted

Yes, my bike currently has the old Murph's headlight relay kit (which does have a high-temp bakelite headlight plug and wiring). It's powered by a dedicated 15-amp feed from the auxiliary fuse block.

It also currently has two separate relay circuits for each of the driving lights, which are also fed by separate circuits on the aux fuse block. I'm not a fan of the switchgear they were controlled by, so I'm swapping out some switches and straightening out how the control side of those relays are fed, but otherwise keeping that general arrangement. I have some 3-position switches in the mail so I can set them up on auto with high and low beams, or manual override.

After doing some more research and contemplation, I think I am going to run what I've got until I am either dissatisfied, or a bulb burns out, and then switch to some LED modules. It looks like there are a lot of good options now due to the popularity of the mall crawler 4x4 trend, so Diode Dynamics, Rigid, and others make some powerful LED units in a variety of beam patterns. I could use a set with a wide fog pattern that are on with low beams, and a longer driving light pattern on high beam. Diode Dynamics even makes some on those patterns that are SAE compliant for low and high beam use (respectively) for legal road use without blinding other drivers.