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Anyone know why Modular helmets can't get a snell rating?

OMoaC

OMoaC

Member
Member
I'm leaning to the shoei neo but before I drop my kids college fund on a lid just curious why they can get a dot approval but not a snell. Doesn't snell approve 3/4 and half helmets? That snell rating just increases my warm and fuzzy feeling.
 
The biggest difference between a Snell Foundation certification and a DOT certification is in the "drop" test. DOT drops from 6', Snell drops from 8' (IIRC). To my knowledge, Snell does not test half helmets or 3/4 but I could be wrong.  FWIW and IMO, the DOT rating offers adequate protection for most street riding as it's very unusual for a street rider to be tossed more than 6' in the air. It can (and does happen) but it's not usual.  Additionally, there's some concern in some safety guru circles that Snell rated helmet are too "hard" (so they can pass that 8' drop test) and, consequently, pass too much energy on to the head. I suggest that you do some research into the DOT vs. Snell standards and then make your decision.
 
I don't believe anyone has tried to get a snell rating on a modular helmet since that is a racing only standard.  AS a safety concern, modulars in the "up" position create a hazard in their own right by becoming a lever that can catch, even on smooth pavement, becoming a lever to either remove the helmet from the wearer, or to create injury to the neck. 
 
Rev Ryder said:
I don't believe anyone has tried to get a snell rating on a modular helmet since that is a racing only standard.  AS a safety concern, modulars in the "up" position create a hazard in their own right by becoming a lever that can catch, even on smooth pavement, becoming a lever to either remove the helmet from the wearer, or to create injury to the neck.
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This is correct.  No manufacturer has submitted a modular (flip up) for testing.
http://www.smf.org/helmetfaq#aWhyNotFlip

Snell approval is very similar to that of Underwriter Lab (UL) testing & rating.  The manufacturer pays a test fee and submits the product.  Manufacturers would not be submitting product they know will not pass. 

DOT is is a federal standard (less stringent than Snell) and manufacturers self-certify and comply with the standards, and periodic random sample testing may be performed to verify compliance.
 
Snell rates 3/4 helmets. I have a Arai 3/4 with both inside and outside Snell stickers.

BTW look for a modular that has "metal to metal " latches. They are much stronger and less apt to open or fail on impact.
 
I thought it was something to do with "Frontal Impact Integrity"...and no manufacturer (so far) is willing to pay to submit a helmet they know won't pass...I believe ECE will be a more widely accepted certification as time goes on...Snell will be less of a factor since it is a one country certification...
 
The only reason to spend alot of money on a helmet is if you can't find a 'moderately' priced one this comfortable and quiet enough.

The previous SNELL rating was a dangerously hard shell that had to conform to a ridiculous standard of taking punishment in the same exact spot twice- a very unlikely scenario.

There is a very good article of real world helmet testing. It focuses on helmets that absorb G forces effectively. Unfortunately I can't find it online anymore. The "premium" helmet makers probably bought off the poster.  :-X
 
Oh, BTW...  don't the manufacturers (and MSF) state that modular helmets correct usage is in the down position for riding?  Riding in the up position eliminates any possible extra protection the movable chin bar is suppose to provide.

This may be a good point to present this "why wear a full face helmet" web page...
http://bmwdean.com/swisher.htm
 
gPink said:
Connie Mark said:
The only reason to spend alot of money on a helmet is if you can't find a 'moderately' priced one this comfortable and quiet enough.

The previous SNELL rating was a dangerously hard shell that had to conform to a ridiculous standard of taking punishment in the same exact spot twice- a very unlikely scenario.

There is a very good article of real world helmet testing. It focuses on helmets that absorb G forces effectively. Unfortunately I can't find it online anymore. The "premium" helmet makers probably bought off the poster.  :-X
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From wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Dexterford

Another good article:
http://www.msf-usa.org/imsc/proceedings/a-thom-comparisontestsofmotorcyclehelmets.pdf

I hope it's OK to link to these articles rather than posting all 14+ pages.
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I was referring to this article, though I still can't find the original Ford article in which it goes into much more depth than the charts on the results pages.
 
Not one of the Schuberth C3 helmets wear a Snell or even a DOT sticker. Maybe it is because of being modular (flip up)?

 
Privateer said:
Not one of the Schuberth C3 helmets wear a Snell or even a DOT sticker. Maybe it is because of being modular (flip up)?
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IIRC, there are flip up helmets that are DOT compliant.  A quick web search yielded "The Schuberth C3 is a premium, ECE/DOT-approved flip-up helmet"
 
gPink said:
I would think they would have to have a DOT to sell in this country. Check Shuberth web site. They have a dot helmet for the USA.
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It's not a requirement that all helmets sold/imported into the USA meet DOT standards.  I've seen many out there that do not meet DOT standards - can usually tell by the very thin EPS impact absorbing liner.

 
When working in the motorcycle "biz", we researched the Snell/ECE and based on the engineering specs for the tests, both appeared pretty much the same. One exception, ECE did not complete a penetration test as Snell does for motorcycle helmets. That was as of 2009, I can't say if anything has changed on the ECE side as of yet.
 
S Smith said:
gPink said:
I would think they would have to have a DOT to sell in this country. Check Shuberth web site. They have a dot helmet for the USA.
Click to expand...


It's not a requirement that all helmets sold/imported into the USA meet DOT standards.  I've seen many out there that do not meet DOT standards - can usually tell by the very thin EPS impact absorbing liner.
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You can buy "DOT" stickers to put on your non-DOT helmet from some of our local biker type places....  It is a horrible idea, but I have know guys who have done it as a way to 'get one past the man!'  I guess it is better to look cool than be safe

All of my helmets are official DOT approved, I have to keep what limited cognitive ability I have left intact.
 
I've got no more to add about the protection ratings than has already been said.  However I did just get a new NEOTEC last week and so far I love it.  The fit is good, no issues with the internal sun visor, the pinlock insert works well as advertised.  The only thing I get is a whistle through the helmet while riding but I think that's based on my riding position and the position of the windshield because it will go away if I shift or adjust the height of the screen. 

Also the NEOTEC is a metal to metal lockup for the flip-up part.  And as mentioned above, the manufacturer recommends against riding with the chin bar in the raised position.  :beerchug:
 
What a wealth of info. I had no idea. Thanks for all the links. I are now better edjumakated. Went and test fit the neo in the local farkle store. Nice fit and feel. Lighter than my current Bell. After reading all this I'm kinda liking no snell rating. Now just have to see how many adult beverage cans I have in my helmet savings account bag in the G-rahge. I have to invest in some protection for my newly enlarged head muscle. :)
 
S Smith said:
Privateer said:
Not one of the Schuberth C3 helmets wear a Snell or even a DOT sticker. Maybe it is because of being modular (flip up)?
Click to expand...

IIRC, there are flip up helmets that are DOT compliant.  A quick web search yielded "The Schuberth C3 is a premium, ECE/DOT-approved flip-up helmet"
Click to expand...

Yes, but they do not sport a DOT sticker, so my legal definition, they are not DOT compliant.
 
FYI:  According to Schuberth's web site, the C3 is both DOT and ECE Compliant.

D.O.T. FMVSS No. 218 & ECE-R 22.05

As for dem stickers......  Maybe there's a debadged version!
 
Mcfly said:
FYI:  According to Schuberth's web site, the C3 is both DOT and ECE Compliant.

D.O.T. FMVSS No. 218 & ECE-R 22.05

As for dem stickers......  Maybe there's a debadged version!
Click to expand...

Hmmm could be. I was a bit surprised but then I realized I bought mine from fc-moto.de, i.e., Germany, and they may not need to affix them there. But then, my riding buddy and his lady have C3 helmets they got stateside, and they don't have DOT stickers either.

I could buy a DOT sticker and legally put it on then, but I'm not going to bother.
 
Not to start an argument, but does "compliant" mean they passed the testing, or that they are built to standards that will pass the testing if they are ever subjected to it?  I couldn't figure it out.  The language seems ambivalent and since no stickers appear to be present it begs the question, IMHO that is.
 
Rev Ryder said:
Not to start an argument, but does "compliant" mean they passed the testing, or that they are built to standards that will pass the testing if they are ever subjected to it?  I couldn't figure it out.  The language seems ambivalent and since no stickers appear to be present it begs the question, IMHO that is.
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I agree, since Schuberth didn't put DOT stickers on, then they didn't conduct DOT-sanctioned tests. Unless for some reason they did, and refuse to put stickers on. LOL.  :truce:
 
Connie Mark said:
A better link to the great article about helmets in the real world. (the pdf reads better)

http://www.westcoastweasels.com/archives/PDF/Blowing_the_Lid_Off.pdf
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It should be noted that the referenced article, while valid when published, is now out of date.  The current Snell certification for motorcycle heamets is dated 2010 and incorporates significant shanges in response to many of the problems highlighted in the referenced article which critiqued the Snell 2005 certification process and requirements.

Google "Snell 2010 revisions" to get a whole slew of of articles describing the changes in the Snell rating system that have been implemented since the article linked by Connie Mark was published.
 
I bought the Neo. Much lighter than my current Bell (w/the snell rating) and quieter so far. Comfort is very good. Have about 200 m on them now (up to about 100mph but I never said that). The drop down pilot visor I thought I wouldn't like is OK. Takes some getting used to after a full face tinted shield due to the gap at the bottom. Got to walk the line at the local Panda express with the flip up up. Beats having to remove my junk like I did before. Juries still out on whether it's worth the cost but so far so good. Haven't tried the pin lock yet but the seams sometimes get you thinking the visor isn't closed. Another thing to get used to. This forum is an information goldmine. Thank you all for the enlightenment. :beerchug:
 
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