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Bike not starting, voltage incorrect

M

mjohncrg4207

Guest
Guest
Hey all,
So I've had this ongoing problem on my '12 C14 where when I turn the bike on, there is a clicking in the glove box like it's trying to lock or unlock or something. When I unplug the glovebox I can hear a relay, and when I unplug that relay a black box in the very rear of the bike is clicking. Also, the top three and bottom three bars on the temp gauge flash back and forty, and it throws an F1 Error (but only sometimes.) The bike won't start when it does this. I also noticed that the voltmeter is showing 12.5v, but very rapidly drops to 11.8v. Two multimeters are both reading the battery at 13.3v. I had the issue awhile back when the bike sat for a long period of time and I figured the battery went bad, so I replaced it with an Earthx lithium. The problem went away for a couple weeks, but I didn't ride all weekend and now it's back. It was on an Optimate charger in that period.

Does anybody have any ideas?
 
Update: The final clicking sound found in the "black box in the rear," is the relay box. Currently paging through my service manual looking for how to diagnose if it's faulty, or to look somewhere else.
 
Grounds on frame clean and tight? Seems to be a common issue.. Battery definitely good? Terminals tight and clean?
 
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Reactions: Bud
chrismpero said:
Grounds on frame clean and tight? Seems to be a common issue.. Battery definitely good? Terminals tight and clean?
Click to expand...
I haven't checked the grounds yet... I'll have to look through the service manual to find the grounds. I sprayed the terminals of the relay box with some contact cleaner and the voltmeter thus far is within .1v of my multimeters, and I haven't gotten the clicking so far. I'm not confident that fixed the problem as I just finished up about 15 minutes ago, but we'll see. The battery and terminals are definitely good.
 
mjohncrg4207 said:
I haven't checked the grounds yet... I'll have to look through the service manual to find the grounds. I sprayed the terminals of the relay box with some contact cleaner and the voltmeter thus far is within .1v of my multimeters, and I haven't gotten the clicking so far. I'm not confident that fixed the problem as I just finished up about 15 minutes ago, but we'll see. The battery and terminals are definitely good.
Click to expand...
They're the one's just next to the battery box on the ride side of the bike.
 
mjohncrg4207 said:
I haven't checked the grounds yet... I'll have to look through the service manual to find the grounds. I sprayed the terminals of the relay box with some contact cleaner and the voltmeter thus far is within .1v of my multimeters, and I haven't gotten the clicking so far. I'm not confident that fixed the problem as I just finished up about 15 minutes ago, but we'll see. The battery and terminals are definitely good.
Click to expand...
Corrosion on connections, even unnoticeable, makes odd things happen in a C14. BTDT. If it's been more than a year since the battery has been out and all connections have been abrasively cleaned, including the ground on the frame, you really need to do so. It's more fun to do it in the garage, than on the side of the road or a hot parking lot.
 
Bud said:
Corrosion on connections, even unnoticeable, makes odd things happen in a C14. BTDT. If it's been more than a year since the battery has been out and all connections have been abrasively cleaned, including the ground on the frame, you really need to do so. It's more fun to do it in the garage, than on the side of the road or a hot parking lot.
Click to expand...
True that! I can't say for sure that it's ever been done. I haven't done it, and I'm pretty sure the previous owner would have mentioned if he had done it himself or had someone else do it. I'll probably save that for this winter, as right now my only trips are pretty much to work and back home.
 
mjohncrg4207 said:
True that! I can't say for sure that it's ever been done. I haven't done it, and I'm pretty sure the previous owner would have mentioned if he had done it himself or had someone else do it. I'll probably save that for this winter, as right now my only trips are pretty much to work and back home.
Click to expand...
This isn't a big job. You might think a while about my last post.😉
 
The clicking or buzzing you are hearing is due to low battery voltage causing the relays to chatter. Replace or recharge your battery and try again.
 
Fred H. said:
The clicking or buzzing you are hearing is due to low battery voltage causing the relays to chatter. Replace or recharge your battery and try again.
Click to expand...
It's got to be a bad connection somewhere then because the battery was on the charger and read 13.3 volts.
 
Checking grounds is always the first thing to check, many unusual problems occur because of poor grounds.
 
I agree with Cuda. First thing I'd do is inspect the main ground wire from the battery where it is bolted to the frame under the battery cover. I've seen those bolts get loose and cause issues. And I also think you've gotten some good advice already about cleaning all the connections. I'd do that as well.

Normally a fully charged battery that is reading a high voltage like that is ok, but occasionally the battery can still be bad because it can't provide current under load, even though the voltage is good. In this case you may need to actually put the battery on a load tester to make sure it can provide enough current.
 
Fred said it before I saw this. A battery can easily show good voltage but have poor amperage.
How old is your battery?

Ride safe, Ted
 
connie_rider said:
Yupp. Me too.
EZ to test...
Use a jumper cable and attach it from the battery negative to a good ground on the frame or engine.
If things improve you know it's a ground issue.

Ride safe, Ted
Click to expand...
Well I finally gave this a shot and no dice. I used 12 gauge cable, cleaned off a bolt hole and tightened the cable down and it's continued with the issues. Great idea though, I'll be using that in the future!
 
My money is on it being a bad battery. I had the very same thing happen to me with a brand new battery and everyone had me checking grounds, claiming my charger was faulty, searching for parasitic draw, even telling me the electricity in my garage was probably faulty and messing with my charger. Guess what, my 1-month old super expensive battery WAS the issue. Replaced it under warranty and never had another issue.
 
I'm in the bad battery camp. These bikes will do some really odd things when the battery isn't right. Modern vehicles in general will act funny. My wife's QX60 started throwing weird codes when the stock battery started going south. When the battery was replaced it was happy again.
 
I haven't called EarthX yet, but will when I get home. I pulled off a bunch of the fairing parts and gas tank and cleaned the grounds as best I can, but I discovered I'm out of electronics cleaner.

Now I'm having a different issue. I reinstalled the battery and clicked the key, and the LCD display looks normal with the key turn indicator thing, then when I turn the key, the display is barely visible and has an FI error, code 38 (ECU Communication error or something along those lines.) I'm at the barber currently, but I'll run to the store and get some cleaner and try spraying the grounds and any associat3d connections.
 
mjohncrg4207 said:
but I discovered I'm out of electronics cleaner.
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You may want to reread post 6. Contact cleaner does nothing in this situation, you must scrape or sand the area where the connection is made down to bare metal. The corrosion is invisible. I copied the info below from the internet.

Aluminum Oxide is a tough, hard material often referred to by a number of other names including, Alumina, and Corundum. With a Mohs hardness of 9, Aluminum Oxide is a high strength, wear-resistant material possessing a strong ability to resist vigorous chemical attacks (such as acid and alkali) at extreme temperatures. Its high degree of refractoriness, along with its superior electrical insulating properties, dielectric properties, and high melting point make Aluminum Oxide a desirable material choice for a diverse range of applications.
 
laker9142 said:
You may want to reread post 6. Contact cleaner does nothing in this situation, you must scrape or sand the area where the connection is made down to bare metal. The corrosion is invisible. I copied the info below from the internet.

Aluminum Oxide is a tough, hard material often referred to by a number of other names including, Alumina, and Corundum. With a Mohs hardness of 9, Aluminum Oxide is a high strength, wear-resistant material possessing a strong ability to resist vigorous chemical attacks (such as acid and alkali) at extreme temperatures. Its high degree of refractoriness, along with its superior electrical insulating properties, dielectric properties, and high melting point make Aluminum Oxide a desirable material choice for a diverse range of applications.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I did sand the contacts with sandpaper, it was after that that this new issue popped up.
 
Sorry, I didn't see that when I read through the thread, but good. Autozone has a good tester in the back, not the hand held. If it tests good then you should probably talk to Just Cliff.
 
laker9142 said:
Sorry, I didn't see that when I read through the thread, but good. Autozone has a good tester in the back, not the hand held. If it tests good then you should probably talk to Just Cliff.
Click to expand...
No worries! 90% certain that I figured it out though, pretty positive it's the damn starter relay for both issues.

Followed the service manual as best I could, and it says to test two wires for the ECU, a brown and a white/black. Well, with the key off, the white/black reads 12v, but with it on, it reads under 3. Both wires should be at 12v with the key on. I tested the fuse, and that was good, but again, with the key on, the fuse dropped to 3v from the power supply.

Long story short, I installed an inline fuse from the ECU side of that fuse, turned the key on, and put the other end of the temporary fuse to the battery, and what do ya know, everything looks good! So it's either the starter relay, or the steering lock unit. I'm about to test the lock unit, but the relay is getting very warm, so my money is on that.
 
So to update... The new starter relay didn't fix the bike. After looking at the wiring diagram more, and figuring out what had full power and what didn't, I finally opened up the "water resistant" loom that's on the left side, underneath the fuel tank. That water resistant sheathing was more of a pool than anything. I'd guess a cup of water came rushing out as soon as I broke the seal. There are 4 white wires (inlet comes from starter relay) that power the ECU fuse and many others. The two splices on the white wire were completely gone. Just some cheap blue tape holding it together. If I can remember how, I'll throw in a pic of the mess that is that harness. Unfortunately I leave for New Mexico tomorrow, so won't be able to get everything fixed up and put back together until next week or later.

Thank you all for the assistance, and hope this can help someone out in the future!
 
I just saw & read through this thread. There has been a lot of mention to check grounds. After reading your post about the water being held in the harness wrap, my first thought was that some ground blocks are corroded. It's a very uncommon problem, but since you have the harness opened up it's easy enough to check. There the little plastic blocks where ground several ground wires will join. You can just open them up & check for corrosion as seen in the picture. I just cut the affected block out & soldered the wires together, put a wire nut on, then taped it up well. My problem was a lighting & not cranking, but still worth checking though since grounds cause all kinds of strange problems.
 

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Just Cliff said:
I just saw & read through this thread. There has been a lot of mention to check grounds. After reading your post about the water being held in the harness wrap, my first thought was that some ground blocks are corroded. It's a very uncommon problem, but since you have the harness opened up it's easy enough to check. There the little plastic blocks where ground several ground wires will join. You can just open them up & check for corrosion as seen in the picture. I just cut the affected block out & soldered the wires together, put a wire nut on, then taped it up well. My problem was a lighting & not cranking, but still worth checking though since grounds cause all kinds of strange problems.
Click to expand...
I found them and opened them all up, to see if any of the grounding connectors were corroded. All of them look great, no corrosion. Once I get back home I'll be going that harness I spoke of and replacing all their splices with some heatshrink butt splices and putting waterproof heatshrink over that.
 
I have to ask. Has this bike spent a bunch of time unprotected from rain, snow, etc? Seems like a high quality cover like a dowco, would have been money very well spent. The thought of any of my bikes getting rained on makes me cringe.
 
Bud said:
I have to ask. Has this bike spent a bunch of time unprotected from rain, snow, etc? Seems like a high quality cover like a dowco, would have been money very well spent. The thought of any of my bikes getting rained on makes me cringe.
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I had it in the rain a bit but not much. If I won't be riding the next day I've been putting it in the garage. My coworker whom I bought it from though rode it rain or shine nearly every day from April or May until end of October.
 
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