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Cost of bike vs car transportation - Concours

jaxrider

jaxrider

Scooter
My '97 Concours was a great bike to ride and would have been an efficient and economical daily ride except for all the farkles I spent $$$ on for it. I was at Myrtle Beach Bike Week talking to a rep from Red Line, the local Honda/Kawasaki/Suzuki etc. dealer from the area. He commented that people will be looking to bikes for greater economy with the high price of gas... My wife's friend's husband went out and bought a $20k Harley to save gas (his wife must believe anything!) At any rate, I think bikes can be a good economical mode of transportation if you can do some of the work yourself. For example, my local dealer charges $675 to tune up a road bike(including valves/carbs) or $375 w/o valves and carbs. Of course this is not economical. Can you guys and gals give me some examples of bikes that are economical to own and ride? My thought is that bikes with low maintenance would lead this list but need more input to better understand the big picture. many thanks, David
 
My Wee-Strom gets 55 - 60 MPG and the difference in gas cost between that and either of the trucks makes the payments if I ride it all the time to work, but then when do I ride the Connie? Unfortunately, things like farkles and tires and extra clothing, riding ear, farkles, chains and sprockets every 20,000 miles, farkles, one more vehicles to insure, farkles, etc., makes it really not much cheaper than just driving the damned truck. Overall I doubt you save much if anything on a yearly basis. But you can't put a price on fun, so.....Oh, wait a minute, as I recall the price was around $7,300 :)
 
Ninja 250. 65 mpg, very low initial purchase at about $3,300. Still has valves to adjust every 6,000 but only 8 instead of 16 like the Conc. Cheaper - how about a scooter new for about $2,000 with top speed of 35 mph, 50 cc, around 200 mpg. Very little maintenance as I understand. Selling like hot-cakes as the local dealer tells me. Great for around town. Greg COG # 7010/7010a (Tracey) CDA 0120 Connie Droppers Anonymous Awards Dude (CDAAD) 99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle". 05 Ninja 250
 
I have a friend with the Ninja 250 and he gets 73mpg by shifting at 5k rpm. Not sure how he does that. I rode one at a demo day and it sure has potential. I'm a little big for it myself but it sure does fit a lot of folks.
 
How about a 500cc motorcycle? I have not seen many on the market and the 400/450/454/500 twin market used to be hot years ago.
 
davidsturgis 09-Jun-08 @ 6:25 AM How about a 500cc motorcycle? I have not seen many on the market and the 400/450/454/500 twin market used to be hot years ago.
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I'll agree. The market has gone BIGover the last two decades. We need those neat little bikes. I has a Yamaha XS-500 and it was a blast to ride and easy to work on. Yuma, Summer in Yuma is not hell, but hell is a local call :) 2006 Connie http://community.webshots.com/user/Lateck?vhost=community
 
The most economical car/motorcycle/airplane/boat is the one you own. Buying a specific car/motorcycle "to save gas" SOUNDS good, but if you sit down and do the math it's bogus. I am always amused by folks who "save on hotel and restaurant bills" buy buying a motorhome. My wife and I can take a two week road trip every year until we are 106 years old, buy a Corvette to travel in, stay in top notch hotels and dine out three times a day and still be way ahead of the cost (and ridiculous depreciation) of a motorhome. OK, I'll climb down off my soapbox now. You touched on one of the biggest economies for a motorcyel owener: Do Your Own Maintenance. If you don't know how, learn. Buy a Haynes or other shop manual, get the right tools, attend the tech seminars, read the FAQ sheets on the web. This is my opinion and I could be wrong, but anyone who buys a bike to save money but farms the maintenance out to a dealer is fooling himself. (I am talking maintenance here, not repair). Yes, there are types of motorcycles and types of owners that dictate a dealer, or at least a professional mechanic, does the routine maintenance chores, such as vintage exotica owned by an entusiast. But NOT on a bike used for commuting to save money. The ONLY thing I ever farm out on the Concours is mounting and balancing tires. The Concours is a simple bike to work on with its screw-and-locknut valve adjusters and dynamite-proof shaft drive. It's gas mileage is a steady 42 MPG. There are bikes that get better gas mileage, but don't afford the weather protection and luggage a commuter needs. Tire wear dictates you buy tires more often than you would with a car, but it is not any worse than most other bikes. In my book, the best all-around bargain, both for ownership and to purchase, is the mighty Kawasaki KLR, both generations. It's cheap to buy, cheap to maintain (one cylinder, one set of valves, one carb), can carry a sh*tload of stuff, offer decent weather protection, can be parked anywhere, you sit up high overlooking traffic, is fun to ride even on weekend racer road stuff, gets 50+ mpg, tires are cheap, etc. It's chain drive so there will be daily lube and weekly adjustment check, but if you use WD40 instead of the chain lube crap dealers sell and keep the futzer clean, there is no reason you can't get 30,000 miles out of today's O-Ring chains. Granted, if you take the KLR off road, the chain wear will increase, but for a road-only use, it just keeps ticking. And, chain replacement is a snap on the KLR. The Original Rich Reed COG #7 1986 Kawasaki Ninja 1000R 1977 Yamaha XS650 Standard 2004 Little Blue Chevy "Over the hill it's five bucks. Here in Idaho it's a hundred and eighty."
 
I agree with Rich and a few others. If you only look at fuel costs versus payments, an alternate vechile to save money looks promising. But then add in maintenance, insurance, etc and it starts adding up and cutting into your savings. The mileage factor seem important to me too. A Ninja 250 at 60-70mpg versus a big SUV or pickup is much easier to justify. Return on Investment will be much shorter than lets say a ninja 250 versus a Connie? I am going to just keep riding the Connie. So as Rich says cheap to buy and maintain is the key.
 
Good points about the Connie. I recently sold mine and bought a ZZR1200 based on the recommendation of Steve in Sunny Florida. I bought a 2002 with 6k miles on it for $4600 and it's a hoot. I'm also getting 40-42mpg, slightly better than my Connie. It's hard to get to the valves but once I've made the trip a few times I am sure it will be easy. This bike has shims so I spent $80 and bought a massive shim kit. I did the 7500 mile service and 1 valve was loose... that's it. Carbs were right on. This bike has a few quick fixes like the Connie, such as setting the idle screws and shimming the needles. Now it runs fantastic and is just plain fun, plus a good sport touring bike once I get a better seat. I helped a friend buy her first bike this weekend. After looking for a nice Honda Shadow for her we found a 1999 Suzuki Marauder in really clean shape. It has 18k miles, a Mustang seat and has been maintained by a dealer. Got it for $2750 from a friend of my wife's. Heck of a deal for a sweet bike. It also has Cobra pipes with the baffles in them. It has the screw adjustment for the valves. There are many good used bikes out there..... I think I'm going to look for a 500 twin for a spare bike and keep it in the garage. My goal is a price under $2k for a really nice one.
 
How bout a Buel Blast. Was talking to an aquantince yesterday and he was driving one. 60 + MPG, hydralic valves I think it was a belt drive. This guy bought it pretty cheap. About 2k miles and I think he said $1800. Sounds pretty good. I know they use them for MSF classes.
 
My '06 Tacoma (17K) gets 19mpg, my '07 Wee Strom (19K) gets 50. I'd have the bike anyway so it's not an added cost. I ride the bike everyday to work 12 months rain, shine, cold or hot. So in my case the bike is saving me a ton of money (in gas) over the truck. Now if I was smart back in '06 I would have seen the price of gas as going through the roof and would have bought a small car to sit in the driveway vs the truck. Oh well. I'd love to sell the truck and get something smaller but it's just not worth it for the amount I drive it. I'm hoping in a few years the truck will still be worth something at $6/gallon. It's a small truck and people will always "need" trucks right? So hopefully it'll hold some of it's value. Wish I would have gotten the 4 cyl though. Us Americans and our love affair with HP, argggg. I got "smart" with the bike though and went with the 650 vs 1000 and I'm VERY happy. Roger COG 5903 Virginia Beach, VA
 
For JUST GAS, a friend in AZ had an F650?GS? that I swore the tank vent was to let the accumulated excess gas escape when he went downhill. Scary fuel economy. Purchase price? Well, it is a BMW. If you gotta ask... :)
 
I owned a vulcan 750 and it was the easiest bike to maintain that I have ever owned. No valve adjustments needed, and all routine maintenance can be done without removing the tank. It has shaft drive and gets close to 50 mph with plenty of power. The tire sizes are common with a wide range of styles and prices. If I could have one of my bikes back, that would be the one. You can get good deals on used vulcan 750's. 2006 concours 2003 zrx1200r Ky aad
 
Roger, what does the (19k) mean? Dreambike, at least you have an awesome zzr1200r.. I have an '02 and just shimmed the carbs and it's running so smoothly. It is a bear to work on though, taking off the tank, plastic, air box, etc.
 
I just figured it up and it cost me about $6 a week in just gas cost to take the car over the bike to work. That is about $24 a month. My trip to and from work would have me sitting still in more traffic and put me in more danger then anywhere else I ride. It is very hot now and its just no fun to sit on the bike. That is why I am willing to pay $24 a month to not use the bike to commute at this point. If it gets real bad I am close enough to ride a bicycle. I might do that before I spend more time gearing up and sitting still in traffic then commuting on the bike. ---------------------------------- I will answer any question. It is up to you to figure out if I should have.
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Bob, that's the same situation my wife is in. She's only 2 miles from work and works from home two days a week. I tried to get her intersted in a bike but she's too smart for the commuting argument:((((( I need a plan B. Roger COG 5903 Virginia Beach, VA
 
All years of vulcan 750 are shaft drive. The older models have chrome side covers and the newer ones are painted. There just aren't any real changes in any of the models to mention. I had a continental tire on the back of mine that got over 11,000 miles. My last tire was a michelin commander. It also got great mileage and it road softer than the conti. 2006 concours 2003 zrx1200r Ky aad
 
I had a 86 Vulcan 750. First year was actually 85 with a 700 cc engine (remember those govt restrictions over 700 cc back then for foreign bikes?). Agree it was easy to maintain. The only pain on the bike was the stator (weak point) which required an engine drop to replace. Some folks installed volt meters and extra fuses to prevent damage to the stator if other electrical issues. The rest was easily accesible. For a twin I liked the 8,500 rpm redline. Having a shaft drive was great for maintenance as well. I put a shield and bags on it for light traveling. Greg COG # 7010/7010a (Tracey) CDA 0120 Connie Droppers Anonymous Awards Dude (CDAAD) 99 Connie "Herrin Christabelle". 05 Ninja 250
 
I parked my truck about a month ago, and now use my dual-sport as a daily commuter: http://img90.imageshack.us/my.php?image=dr650seis9.jpg I have removed the knobbies in the pic, and put the oem dual sport tires back on. With the small shield, rack, and the small JCW trunk, it's perfect. Dual sports can be found very reasonable, and cost almost nothing to maintain. The only downside is, now that I ride the dual-sport so much, the Concours feels like a pig when I first get on it. I'm only getting around 50mpg, but that's because my commute is less than 10 miles. Still beats 15mpg that I get with my Dodge Dakota.
 
I've really been jonsin' over a DRZ400 lately!!! Problem is my Wee Strom gets 50 and I really have no place to ride it off road close by. But honey, I really WANT one isn't working all that well right now!!!! Maybe she'll tire of the constant whinning, it usually works. Wish me luck! Roger COG 5903 Virginia Beach, VA
 
I found a long time ago that fuel mileage is NOT the most important consideration with riding a bike. Tire mileage seems to be the great equalizer as far as actual cost per mile. Super high gas prices have made me look at this again and while the scale comes closer to the bike, tires are still the definitive expense. Now my Connie is no longer stock and no longer gets Connie's typical 40mpg, but even at 42mpg here's the way I see major annual costs working out. Cost for driving Toyota Corolla 10k per year. It gets 33mpg highway (my commute)and the tires last 40k and cost $320 set (4 tires). Gasoline (regular) will be about 303 gallons @ $4.00 per equals $1200 while tires will cost $80 and insurance (liability only) will run $450. The total comes to about $1730 to drive the car 10k. Connie, when stock, got 40mpg hwy in commuting mode. A set of Avons installed myself cost about $230 a set and last me 5k miles. Insurance was a windfall at $80 per year and my second Connie was insured for $8 per year. Now I have three insured for a total of $80 per year. Liability only. So the cost for Connie for the same miles comes to 238 gallons $4 per gallon equals $952 for gas. Avon Tires come to about $382 per year @ 6k per set. So my total comes to $1452. While it appears that the bike is a couple of hundred dollars cheaper than the car to drive, add in the cost of a new helmet, jacket, boots, pants, raingear, and cupholder to make the bike actually get closer to equating the car and you run into a negative frugality. Figure in the cost of maintenance (surely your time is worth something) and things tip WAY in favor of the car. Valve adjustments and carb cleanings alone will wipe you out. The bike really doesn't compete economically. But is dollars the real reason you ride? I ride for fun and I know that fun CAN be more costly. My Turbo bike gets about the same highway mileage as the Corolla and I can destroy a set of Avons in 4k easy. The insurane company is not aware of the mods so that is a wash. I'll still ride when I can unless the air conditioner temptation becomes too great. :)
 
Rev, good analysis but I have some comments. I would amortize the cost of boots, helmet, jacket over 3 years to spread the cost. I also think most folks get better mileage than 5k out of tires. I usually got 12k front and 10k rear with no problems and this was combined city/hwy riding. My current ZZR1200 gets 38mpg in town and 42mpg on the highway on regular. I bought it used and the front tire was damaged so I can't comment on front tire wear but the original Battlax is stil on the rear at 9300 miles. Maybe sport-touring tires will get better life? The maintenance side is surely true but I'm pushing the valves/carbs out to 10k miles on the ZZR as I did with my Concours (1997). Riding is sure a lot more fun except when it's over 100 degrees or raining.
 
My end kicker for the car on commute is the traffic I have to deal with. Takes all the fun out. No fun, no cost advantage I will end up in the car. If it gets to the point where the bike is cheaper by a long shot I am 8 miles from work and may just switch to bicycle on good days. ---------------------------------- I will answer any question. It is up to you to figure out if I should have.
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Cool - Rev Rider is checking in here!! smithr... It sounds like your freeways in Austin don't have car-pool lanes that allow m/c to use them. That's the whole reason that I kinda got back into m/c's after 20 years of being out of it. Up here in the greater Seattle/Puget Sound area... most all our freeways, now have these lanes, which m/c's can use. I just love going by on the bike, at regular freeway speeds (with the car-poolers), while the rest of the cages are barely moving. If I couldn't do that... and it was hot out, I'd certainly pay the cost to sit in an a/c car.
 
They are talking about those lanes for out major hwys but has not been done yet. I do not see it coming to the roads I take to work for years if ever though. ---------------------------------- I will answer any question. It is up to you to figure out if I should have.
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Greg, our car pool lanes are not gong to work so well when they start selling permits to guys driving Hummers without passengers. I drive 40+ miles each way on mostly 55mph roads. Even with tires, (I wouldn't consider buying a tire that I will have to replace everytime I do a oil change, but then I don't push myself very hard in the twistys), I can not justify driving my Ranger unless I'm planning on hauling something too big for the bike. Even riding in the rain is more fun than riding in the cage. 1990 Aint she a pretty Tomato
 
Greg, our car pool lanes are not gong to work so well when they start selling permits to guys driving Hummers without passengers. Yeah "Sawfiler" I haven't heard of that happening, and I hope it doesn't. The Wa. state DOT is experimenting with it, I guess, just south of me, from Renton to Puyallup. You can buy a pass that charges you whenever you drive in those lanes. It doesn't seem real popular yet, as I drive that road sometime, and don't see a major change yet. Time will tell, I guess. Hey, just curious... What other parts of the country have car-pool lanes that m/c's can use???? Or is this a novelty in our area?
 
You can use them here in VA. I think our own leader Guy Young was a part of that push. Roger COG 5903 Virginia Beach, VA
 
There are car-pool/motorcycle lanes in SOME Texas metro areas. DFW has a lot of them. Autin just has a terrible transit system. It becomes a parking lot several times per day.
 
Greg, As far as I know all states that have HOV lanes allow motorcycles to ride legally in them 24/7. There was a recent stink in New York about it and the case went all the way to the NY State Supreme Court where the plaintif won the case. AKA "2linby" That's 2-lin-by folks! Northwest Area Director COG #5539 AMA #927779 IBA #15034 Team Oregon MC Instructor http://community.webshots.com/user/2linby http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BunBurner Gold Trip) http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip)
 
Great - that's interesting news!! And like others have said... sometimes the traffic is SO bad, that even the HOV lane is a parking lot like the mainline. But at least for me, for when and where I'm going, the HOV/car-pool lane is much, much better, 90% of the time.
 
I like the HOV lane so much, I would rather ride in the rain on the Connie, than sit in traffic in a car. For the average day that adds 30min to 45min of time into MY day that commuting would take. In the evening its probably not as good a savings as the time I leave traffic is not so bad anyways. The morning can be really hit and miss. Some times 405 south can be backed from I-5 to Redmond. Generally when the HOV lane becomes an HIV lane, its only around Totem Lake and so its only a few miles of it versus almost twenty miles of it. On these days just the morning commute can be an hour difference.
 
plus one "slybones" BTW, what's the "HIV lane"? I'm sure this'll be funny and clever :) But my brain's just too hot right now to figure it out. Probably from the heat wave "Seattle style" that we're having right now. 91* today out there... inside my house it's almost 90, it's 9:30 pm and all my windows are open but there's no breeze to cool the house off. Three fans going, but they're just pushing hot air around. Yeah, so my brains too hot to know what an "HIV lane" is :)
 
When I lived in the sh*t (Seattle area) I used the HOV lane every day. Sure it saved me time, but 167 HOV lanes stopped at 15th ave nw and sometimes it took me 40 minutes from there to Bonney Lake! Crappy planning thirty years ago is the reason these urban area can not handle the load. I am sooo freaking happy to be out of that reality. Don't think I'll try it again. Just to much metal and emotion cost. Regardless of the pay available. Somethings just can not have a price put on them. AKA "2linby" That's 2-lin-by folks! Northwest Area Director COG #5539 AMA #927779 IBA #15034 Team Oregon MC Instructor http://community.webshots.com/user/2linby http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BunBurner Gold Trip) http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip)
 
Motorcycles are allowed in HOV lanes everywhere in the US by Federal law, thanks to the AMA. :) AMA# 1019197 COG# 8229 CDA# 0267
 
Ya know... I forgot the biggest difference in car vs motorcycle transportation expense... and that s pleasure riding. In the days before owning a bike, I never got in my car and went out to ride twisties or to just drive 200 miles for lunch (much less 1700 mile for a Moonshine Burger). No, I just drove my car to work and school and the bowling alley and the bank. But with the bike, I enjoy it too much to NOT ride it. So even if I have a car (which nearly all of us do) and even if I ride the bike in place of the car and do all the things on it I used to do in the car, I will still ride the bike for pleasure... which means ADDITIONAL costs of operation that fit into the equation. No bike equals no pleasure rides, no nationals, no moon butrgers, no RTE's, no flower sniffin' rides, no mountain blastin', etc. So, I deduce, that the bike cost way more and beyond the cost of car operation. AND if that was the only consideration, it would be a disasterous thing for EVERYONE to get a bike, don't you think? We would use more fuel overall, more energy in many ways, and producing more pollutants than the current crop of SUVs that clog the roads. A motorcycle used the way WE use them cannot be justified on the basis of cost of operation. JMHO YMMV (but I know what it costs) :) :) Now I do think it would help a lot with city congestion, but the twisties would be a fender to fender parling lot. ;p
 
Ditto on the Vulcan as I owned a 'tarriff' 700cc '85 model. Great mpg and great torque for the displacement. Alas, I found the cruiser accomodation not to my liking. The other low maintenance bike and one I spent very few $ on farkles was the '83 GL650 Silverwing Interstate. Easy valve access and screw/locknut adjust. Easy 50 mpg. Needed a 6th gear for touring tho. The Milwaukee crowd would often take a sly look at that sideways V twin ala Moto Guzzi. Just sold daughters '85 XL250R. Man did I get numerous ph calls and emails on that one. Same with her '88 T Bird. Also my 'ole' '00 KLR 650 (have a '08 now) All sold first day. Craigslist. 'Course these bikes are a bit long in the tooth like the owner.
 
The Blasts have pretty poor resale value, from what I've seen, so could be OK as a used buy. Anecdotal evidence that they are not the most reliable ride out there, so what you save on valve adjusts you could be spending in other areas. I have a Ninja 250 and do a lot of freeway commuting on it. If you are running decent speeds (80 mph indicated / 73 mph true), mileage drops down to 55 or so on my bike. Admittedly, I suspect it needs some carb work, but I wouldn't expect much more out of it at those speeds. Most of the folks getting 65 mpg and up are running well under 65 mph.
 
Rev Rider, 'Tire costs are a main cost...' or something like that.. Like I wuz sayin gat the nat'l ' that Turbo ZG and that ZRX ZG NEEDS a car tire! Nope, I ain't gona stop this opinion. And that is just what it is. One man, one bike, one tire. Sounds like a good byline IMO. Hee hee. I rode with the local RAT group last Sat and the tire put the bike another step up on cornering, braking, acell compared the those "old' MC tire technology.
 
A local Cogger (Jax, FL) hurt his knee and wanted to sell his Conk and get something smaller, once he's healed up. I was thinking of buying his bike but decided to hold off. It is a '92 with 58k miles in pretty good shape with some extras. I suggested Craigslist and figured he would sell it in a week. He emailed me Monday.. he placed the ad Monday morning with a few pics, had a call in 30 minutes and the guy came, rode it 5 minutes and then peeled off 25 $100 bills. Good bike, fair price, and sold in the morning. I'm seeing some bikes that don't sell well, like Suzuki Intruders. I see them for 2k below book and am going to check out a used 2004 tonight, a 1500. Any thoughts on this model?
 
Thinking about it. I must add that the Concours(S) has to be the most economical bike I have owned. After two, and a combined 227k mi' $10,700 purchase costs, the few upgrades that transferred from one to the other like a GPS that can be used on the KLR and car/truck.... Sure I do all my own maintenance. With the support of COG members and wrench sessions anyone should be able to also. Call me 'a frugal Connie Rider'.
 
Dan, Don't think that I am not considering it... I am just afraid. :8o: Well, if it was a simple buy the tire and stick it on thing, that's one deal. But I have other things to spend money on that turn my crank when this tire thing really doesn't. If I didn't need to buy the whole wheel, machine it, etc. (not that I am not capable, just trouble and expense that is low on my list of stuff to try) then I would probably give it a shot just for grins. I just really struggle with the ability of those flimsy sidewalls to deal with MY riding style. I'm very alergic to falling down and have always been a proponent of riding on the very best tires available to me, hang the cost. That car tire might work great, may be the best thing I will have ever tried... but it's very very hard to believe that they will be. I definitely hear you talking, and I am being influenced... I'm just not there YET. For now I am WILLING to spend the money to ride the way I like. Sure, I wish it were not so, but the cost of tires is still very cheap compared to the bike and/or a hospital stay, etc. As I was saying, if all I did was use the bike for transportaion and I rode it sanely (forgive me mom), then the car tire would make more sense to me. Of course, I would get much better tire life out of regular MC tires than I do right now too. But the MAIN cost of bike versus car is simply that we/I ride it for the joy of riding it, hence it is NOT a justifiable argument that the (read that MY) bike is, or even CAN be more cost effective than my 99 Toyota Corolla... maybe even if tires were free. Now watch me put a stinkin' car tire on the Turbo... oh the shame. ;) ;) ;)
 
>>Dan, >>Don't think that I am not considering it... I am >>just afraid. Rev Rider Yes I surely do understand. I was VERY CAUTIOUS in the first thou miles.'Course was able to see the application on a rig in AU last year that allowed me the see the relatively easy application. Surviving riding since '62 I must have had some preservation instincts that worked! The Federal tire has so little side wall flex I don't notice it. I caution myself not to be a cheerleader for such an non-standard modification ....but hard to contain the enthusiasm. Then my mouth moves.... fingers type...
 
Rev, If your going to add the cost of "recreational" riding to the cost of owning a bike, then you also have to figure in the pleasure you recieve. What would it cost to golf, bowl, or go to movies for the same time frame as a recreationla ride. I love my commute on my connie, bored to death on the same road in the cage. 1990 Aint she a pretty Tomato
 
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