Cycle World Sept 11- C-14 vs BMW1600

[nickconcours14]

The article by Don Canet is titled, "THERE'S A NEW SHERIFF IN TOWN."  Immediately I could see Cycle World was going to gitty about the new Beemer. Not so, after I read the article.
The end reads, "But if you are looking for unmatched comfort, convenience and a motor that defies the laws of convention the GT is without pier." Then he goes on to write that because the K1600GT looks like a cop bike when there is a new sheriff in town.

 

[Cap'n Bob]

Is this a C14 vs BMW thread? You didn't say anything about the C14. 

 

[pdsgt]

Anytime there is a model with a facelift it always gets the golden goose award.  Doesn't matter if it's a car, truck or motorcycle.  I've owned Beemers before, nice bikes but heavy on the Maintenance bills for me.  I'm hooked on the C14. YMMV.

 

[zg]

The article by Don Canet is titled, "THERE'S A NEW SHERIFF IN TOWN."  Immediately I could see Cycle World was going to gitty about the new Beemer. Not so, after I read the article.
The end reads, "But if you are looking for unmatched comfort, convenience and a motor that defies the laws of convention the GT is without pier." Then he goes on to write that because the K1600GT looks like a cop bike when there is a new sheriff in town.

I didn't think law enforcement made that much $...

 

[AngryBaby]

The BMW has a dry clutch and all of the other Police motorcycles (i.e. Kawasaki, Honda, Harley) that are used have wet clutches.  The agencies that have BMW's normally stay with the BMW.  This is due to the different way the two types of clutches are ridden in a Police motorcycle capacity.  If you are use to riding a wet clutch you will burn up a dry clutch in no time at all if you ride it the same way as a wet clutch is ridden.  For this reason most agencies stay with the BMW once the switch is made.  So for the Motors that are stuck on the 1200 BMW there really is a new Sheriff in town that is 400cc's bigger.  If Kawasaki could make the C14 turn like the KZ1000P it would be flawless as a Police motorcycle.  Just my two cents!  Ride safe out there.

(Police Officers don't make enough money for putting their lives on the line and making the ultimate sacrifice.-SORRY OFF TOPIC)

 

[Fred H.]

I test rode the new BMW a couple months ago, and while the bike does have some nice attributes, the drive line lash and slushy feeling suspension pretty much ruined it for me. The low speed on/off throttle jerkyness was the worst I've ever felt on any bike.

Personally, I don't really view it as even being in the same category as the C14. It really is in a segment all of it's own, inbetween a full up touring bike like the Wing, and a Sport Touring bike like the C14 and FJR.

It does have some nice features like factory cruise and heated seats and a (underpowered) stereo that I like. But the new ride by wire throttle modes are in my opinion a totally useless gimmick.

I will give it kudos for having a standard ignition key.

 

[bolgerrf]

I found out that the Austin Police will be moving away from the RT and towards the C14. I did not hear a date, but the overall factor was cost savings per bike and not a specific maintenance application.
Robert Bolger

 

[zg]

(Police Officers don't make enough money for putting their lives on the line and making the ultimate sacrifice.-SORRY OFF TOPIC)

True dat!

 

[BruceR.]

The article praised the BMW's higher lean angle, IIRC.  They went on & on about the on-the-fly suspension setting of the GT and ragged the Kawi's lack thereof.  I think they were too stubborn or lazy to set the suspension properly on the C14.  Another nit they had was the GT kicked the C14's butt in top gear rool ons, even while noting that if they dropped to 5th on the C14 it hung in there with the Beemer.  IIRC the Kawi beat it in the 1/4 mile times so I think it was really skewed to favor the BMW.  For me, 1600CC is getting into the overkill range.  1400 is, to be honest, but i'm not giving up my motor

 

[Sparkie]

The BMW has a dry clutch and all of the other Police motorcycles (i.e. Kawasaki, Honda, Harley) that are used have wet clutches.  The agencies that have BMW's normally stay with the BMW.  This is due to the different way the two types of clutches are ridden in a Police motorcycle capacity.  If you are use to riding a wet clutch you will burn up a dry clutch in no time at all if you ride it the same way as a wet clutch is ridden.  For this reason most agencies stay with the BMW once the switch is made.  So for the Motors that are stuck on the 1200 BMW there really is a new Sheriff in town that is 400cc's bigger.  If Kawasaki could make the C14 turn like the KZ1000P it would be flawless as a Police motorcycle.  Just my two cents!  Ride safe out there.

(Police Officers don't make enough money for putting their lives on the line and making the ultimate sacrifice.-SORRY OFF TOPIC)

I'd be curious to here more info about how to ride the dry clutch as compared to the wet clutch. I'm a wet clutch guy and when I've test rode BMW's I've had a helluva time with their feel. I usually stall it a couple of times getting rolling. Mark

 

[Sport rider]

the big thing for me is the huge price difference.  I'm sure the BMW is a fine bike.  I have a couple friends with the 1200LT.  For nearly 10 grand difference, that buys a lot of farkles.  When price is factored in, I'm hard pressed to imagine many opting for the beemer.  Am I totally wrong?

 

[JohnC]

Well, I had a K1200 LT and if I wanted to go a long distance in somewhat comfort, I went on the LT.  Now the bike handles quite well for its weight, but the three items that made it comfortable was: electronic cruise control that was very much in line with those on an auto, a comfortable backrest, and an item called Highway Ottoman's.  Now that was what I call an upgrade from foot pegs.  These were similar to foot pegs, but you laid your calf upon the cushioned rest and basically, laid back.  There were a few times I was so comfortable it was hard to stay awake.  Now add the stereo that was volume controlled by your surroundings, (no need for a comm setup) heated seats and grips, and you were spoiled.

But now that I'm getting older and since Mom rarely rides with me any more, I sold the LT.  What's next, not sure.  I've also got a C10 and that is great.  The world's most reliable motorcycle, Concours, the ZG1000.

Quick rundown of 6+ years with a C10 and a LT.  The LT, the rear drive went out (a grand), the ABS went out (two grand), a battery, and two sets of tires.  The C10, rebuilt the entire brake system, a battery, and two sets of tires.  Would I buy another BMW, . . . .  they need to fix the rear drive problem, add a wet clutch, and return to building a bike with exceptional fit and finish. 

The C14, I've ridden it, love it, but if I had that I'd kill myself.  Just way too much power for an ol fart like me.  But K needs to add those items mentioned above to make the C14 the ultimate touring bike.  Smooth power delivery, none I've ridden can beat it.  Smooth and very powerful, good handling, just need some comforts for the long haul.

 

[Cogwheel]

I test rode the new BMW a couple months ago, and while the bike does have some nice attributes, the drive line lash and slushy feeling suspension pretty much ruined it for me. The low speed on/off throttle jerkyness was the worst I've ever felt on any bike.

Personally, I don't really view it as even being in the same category as the C14. It really is in a segment all of it's own, inbetween a full up touring bike like the Wing, and a Sport Touring bike like the C14 and FJR.

It does have some nice features like factory cruise and heated seats and a (underpowered) stereo that I like. But the new ride by wire throttle modes are in my opinion a totally useless gimmick.

I will give it kudos for having a standard ignition key.

Thank you for the truth.  In two years the mags will be saying how they fixed the jerkiness and suspension. But for now, you can only get that here.

 

[whaler]

The BMW has a dry clutch and all of the other Police motorcycles (i.e. Kawasaki, Honda, Harley) that are used have wet clutches...

Actually, the K1600 has a wet clutch -- and police agencies make purchase decisions based on many considerations, and clutch design is a long way down the list. Transitioning a competent motor officer from one clutch type to another is a walk in the park and, like moving from a wheel gun to a semi-automatic, takes nothing but training and time. I've never seen an officer fail to make the transition. Time and training are not free, of course, but we've had no major difficulties moving from Harley to Kawasaki to BMW over the last 25 years. Each bike has its attributes, deficits and fan club.

I test rode the new BMW a couple months ago, and while the bike does have some nice attributes, the drive line lash and slushy feeling suspension pretty much ruined it for me. The low speed on/off throttle jerkyness was the worst I've ever felt on any bike.

Something must have been wrong with the bike you rode, or it must have been improperly adjusted, because I experienced none of what you just described, and neither did any of the other motor officers who had a chance to play with the K16GT. 

The K16GT suspension is electronically adjustable for load (weight) and damping rate. These are completely independently selected settings. When the bike is set for a heavier rider, and "sport" mode is selected, it provides a very firm, tight suspension system which performs well under compression and at speed. It's extremely nimble, fast, and stable in the twisties. I had the bike up to 129 MPH (GPS) and it was rock solid -- not one shimmy or shudder, even under repeated and hard braking. It's the best braking system I've ever experienced -- near zero fade.

Our local BMW dealer supplies/maintains our enforcement bikes. They have been great to work with, and the R1200RTs have been great, for the most part. They're not particularly fast, but they handle extremely well at all speeds, they maneuver the tight courses well, the brakes are very good, and they're great to sit on all day long.

They BMW dealer knows me well and trusts me, so they allowed me to keep their demo K1600GT over the Memorial Day weekend. I put 475 miles on the GT that weekend and found it to be one of the most remarkable bikes I've ever ridden. I have no idea why/how somebody might stall this bike due to clutch problems. I had no such difficulty, and neither did any of the other motor officers who rode the bike. It has HUGE torque, almost 70% of which is available from 1500 RPMs, so it would be hard to stall in 1st gear -- even if you were trying to do it. The transmission is buttery smooth, a real departure from the usual clunky BMW transmission. The K16 feels much more "Japanese" in that respect.

The new K1600GT is every bit as great as the reviewers keep saying it is -- but it's too darn expensive for us regular guys. It's also suffering from some of the usual first year model problems, including software glitches (iPod/stereo/nav interface problems). They've also had some other problems, like some starter failures, bad wiring harnesses for the top case and some exterior trim pieces that have been falling off, presumably due to faulty adhesive. I suspect BMW will get this stuff ironed out in a year or two.

BMWs have crazy-expensive pricing. The top case for the K1600 is $1,500, for example. It's nicer than the top case for the Connie, but not much nicer, and certainly not 8 TIMES nicer. The bike is nicer too, I think, but only a few thousand bucks nicer, if that. I'll add some goodies to my Connie, like 1) a Garmin nav system with Touratech lock, 2) a top case, and 3) a heated Rick Mayer seat. I'll probably add a little seat height during customization, and drop the pegs a tad for leg comfort, because I'm tall -- part of the reason the K16GT was so darn comfortable. In the end I'll have a bike that's 95% of the Beemer at 70% of the cost -- and my Connie will have MUCH longer service intervals, and more/predictable better reliability. 

I will miss the electronic suspension adjustment, especially the ability to switch to pillion capacity by toggling the "wheel". I'll miss the cruise control, wind/weather control, wireless nav-stereo-helmet integration, and the BMW engine too. All that BMW stuff is fantastic. I'd love to have the K16GT as a work bike, though I think it's too wide to work the tight patterns. In the end, for me, reliability and affordability are still #1 for me personal bike. The Connie provides fantastic performance and decent creature comforts, with reasonable pricing and bullet-proof reliability, so it's the choice for me -- at least until I win the lottery.  

 

[mcrider007]

I test rode the new BMW a couple months ago, and while the bike does have some nice attributes, the drive line lash and slushy feeling suspension pretty much ruined it for me. The low speed on/off throttle jerkyness was the worst I've ever felt on any bike.

Something must have been wrong with the bike you rode, or it must have been improperly adjusted, because I experienced none of what you just described, and neither did any of the other motor officers who had a chance to play with the K16GT.

The K16GT suspension is electronically adjustable for load (weight) and damping rate. These are completely independently selected settings. When the bike is set for a heavier rider, and "sport" mode is selected, it provides a very firm, tight suspension system to performs well under compression at speed. It's extremely nimble, fast, and stable in the twisties. I had the bike up to 129 MPH (GPS) and it was rock solid -- not one shimmy or shudder, even under repeated and hard braking. It's the best braking system I've ever experienced -- near zero fade.

I have ridden both the K1600GTL and the K1600GT and have to vote with Fred because both bikes I rode had a very bad on-off throttle response in the lower gears and both bikes' suspensions were so soft they became unstable when ridden over rough pavement and large bumps.  The front ends seem to be detached from the motorcycle and while it makes for a smooth ride, it is not confidence inspiring when leaning around corners. Both have limited ground clearance and lean angles and the only way they are nimble, fast, and stable in the twisties is when the twisties are smooth and straight.  The ESA is mostly marketing hype because all it offers is 3 preload positions and 3 minor rebound damping adjustments in the rear shock.  I rode a twisty, semi-bumpy uphill road 4 times on the K1600GT and used every possible suspension adjustment trying to find something that worked half as well as my C14, and just confirmed that ESA is not something I would want on any of my motorcycles.

I also agree with Fred that the K1600GT is not in the Sport-Touring class, I think it is a light weight touring bike and a very good one.  I would probably buy one except the nearest BMW dealer is 150 miles away and BMWs seem to spend too much time at the dealerships, either for required maintenance that most home mechanics do not have the specialized tools to perform, or warranty claims.

 

[JohnC]

I thought the same thing, that I'd have to have all the maintenance and work done at a dealer, boy was I wrong.  You would be surprised at how much you can do on the beemers. There is a following, much like us here at COG, only they specialize in BMW, namely the LT and GT.  Check them out: www.bmwlt.com

Now I diagnosed and then replaced the entire ABS unit on my former LT.  There are methods to read codes off the motronic (computer) using regular tools.  Even to reset it using regular tools.  Plus they now have a 3rd party device you can purchase and it reads the code and does all their setup does.  The worst part of working on them is removing all that tupperware.  They have a different mindset to putting plastic on a bike, some screws are hidden very well.

 

[AngryBaby]

The BMW has a dry clutch and all of the other Police motorcycles (i.e. Kawasaki, Honda, Harley) that are used have wet clutches...

Actually, the K1600 has a wet clutch -- and police agencies make purchase decisions based on many considerations, and clutch design is a long way down the list. Transitioning a competent motor officer from one clutch type to another is a walk in the park and, like moving from a wheel gun to a semi-automatic, takes nothing but training and time. I've never seen an officer fail to make the transition. Time and training are not free, of course, but we've had no major difficulties moving from Harley to Kawasaki to BMW over the last 25 years. Each bike has its attributes, deficits and fan club.

About time BMW pulled their heads out of where the sun don't shine and put a wet clutch in a big bike.  Yes to each their own but I have seen competent motor officers smoke a dry clutch in under a minute and have never seen a wet clutch have any issues like that.  Two different riding styles and the BMW with the dry clutch is much more costly to ride in a Police capacity.

 

[whaler]

Test rides are free, so I encourage all who are curious to take the GT for a spin after a technician has set the bike up to meet your expectations.

Like the S1000RR race bike, the K1600GT is usually demoed with electronic settings which allow the rider to at least start out with a slightly less responsive throttle. Unless you take the time to ride the bike through the progressive settings, you don't get an opportunity to appreciate the benefits of riding the bike in each of the various modes. When all the protective " retardation" is disabled the GT is a very capable bike. With the retardation in place it's a very safe, tractable bike -- perfect for the average fifty-something rider who is used to riding a bike with less horsepower: it allows a gentle, tiered introduction to a bike with over 150 hp. For a guy coming off of a GSX-R, or even a Connie, that isn't necessary, and probably isn't appreciated, so the demo should start in sport mode with ample power and suspension tune.

 

[Stevewfl]

I'm looking forward to riding a GT with suspension set in aggressive mode.  I've no use for the plush GT-L.

I'm a hard sell. I appreciate beemer going all out on the new bike. I love my C14 and for "now" don't plan to part with it

 

[jr]

 
i wanted to ask guys that have ridden both, how much MORE power the BMW might seem to have.  maybe, Fred or Whaler can chime in.  yes, i am a horsepower guy, with a track gixxer 1000 and a hayabusa. really leaning towards a new C14 but would consider the BMW. i am coming off an FJR that i REALLY like.

was thinking of bumping up the C14 HP with some tasteful power mods but i really don't want a loud exhaust..

 
 

 

[mcrider007]

 
i wanted to ask guys that have ridden both, how much MORE power the BMW might seem to have.
 

More power than what?  BMW's HP claims are just that...I have seen dyno results on the K1600 that were as low as 123HP and as high as 132HP (the real weights seem to be 797 and 755 fully fueled), my seat of the pants dyno on the 2 K1600s that I rode said that either a FJR or a C14 is faster in a straight line if you use the gearbox and both will leave the K1600 on a twisty road.  That being said, the K1600 has all the power any sane person needs on the street and that power is super smooth, even under hard acceralation, its almost like the engine is detached from the frame.  I would love to have a K1600GT for a touring bike if it turns out to be reliable and its possible for a home mechanic to do most of the maintenance.

 

[whaler]

The BMW has a dry clutch and all of the other Police motorcycles (i.e. Kawasaki, Honda, Harley) that are used have wet clutches...

Actually, the K1600 has a wet clutch -- and police agencies make purchase decisions based on many considerations, and clutch design is a long way down the list. Transitioning a competent motor officer from one clutch type to another is a walk in the park and, like moving from a wheel gun to a semi-automatic, takes nothing but training and time. I've never seen an officer fail to make the transition. Time and training are not free, of course, but we've had no major difficulties moving from Harley to Kawasaki to BMW over the last 25 years. Each bike has its attributes, deficits and fan club.

About time BMW pulled their heads out of where the sun don't shine and put a wet clutch in a big bike.  Yes to each their own but I have seen competent motor officers smoke a dry clutch in under a minute and have never seen a wet clutch have any issues like that.  Two different riding styles and the BMW with the dry clutch is much more costly to ride in a Police capacity.

Yes, and we have motor officers that are 35,000 to 45,000 into 2008 R1200RTs on the original clutches, with plenty of slow training days, and grindingly slow traffic control days. With proper training the bikes perform and last brilliantly. The fact that a poorly trained rider can trash a bike in a day... My 18 year old daughter burned up the clutch in our Toyota truck in one weekend. That isn't proof the Toyota trucks or clutches suck, it's proof that she can't drive -- yet.

 

[whaler]

 
i wanted to ask guys that have ridden both, how much MORE power the BMW might seem to have.  maybe, Fred or Whaler can chime in.  yes, i am a horsepower guy, with a track gixxer 1000 and a hayabusa. really leaning towards a new C14 but would consider the BMW. i am coming off an FJR that i REALLY like.

was thinking of bumping up the C14 HP with some tasteful power mods but i really don't want a loud exhaust..


The new cycle world had the GT with 133.9 hp, 114.5 ft.-lb. torque, 11.21 1/4 mile. That's .18 seconds slower than the connie and just 1.7 more hp. Every other report I've read rates the BMW much higher at the rear wheel, but such comparisons don't mean much unless all the bikes being compared are being tested on the same dyno with the same ambient temperature.

My "seat of the pants test" tells me that both of these bikes are extremely fast and extremely capable. They are strikingly similar. I'd give the handling and braking advantage to the BMW, but that's just me, and the differences in these two bikes don't amount to even one-percent of the difference in rider skill level. If I want to ride faster, I train more. A competent rider on either of these bikes can do almost anything.

I'd say that these two compare about like a Infiniti G35 coupe compares to a BMW 330is. Both very fast, both very capable, both very well made.

BMW pushes the engineering envelope and always has. My 1989 K100RS had fantastic ABS when everybody but Yamaha said ABS on a bike was "unnecessary". Heck, Harley refused to developed ABS until they couldn't qualify for some enforcement contracts -- and even then, their first instinct was to sue, rather than comply and design new safety systems. But eventually, everybody, even Harley, got on the safety bus. The BMW S1000RR blend of extreme power and electronics was a game changer, but after only two years, the other manufacturers have similar technology. The latest sport bike comparison has the new Kawi within 25 horsepower at the rear wheel and, much more importantly, within a tenth of a second in average lap times with the same riders. Again, after a couple years the other manufacturers are delivering almost as much performance, and generally better reliability and durability, for much less money.

I think the Connie is almost as good as the BMW, though it's currently lacking a few very cool features. It's also MUCH less money, MUCH less expensive to maintain, and much less expensive to accessorize. Easy call for me.

 

 

[membership]

I tested the 1600 it is very nice the concours could have a little more power but if kawasaki had a heating seat and cruise there would be no comparison but tomorrow I will have me a heating seat that is the difference I notice

 

[Frank ZZR]

http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/2012-bmw-k1600gt-vs-2011-kawasaki-concours-14-abs-video-91105.html

 

[gadallah]

The BMW is a fantastic bike that oozes quality and the fit and finish is way way better than the Concours (more like miles ahead). Most of us paid 1500-2000 less than MRSP for the Concours, while the snobs at the BMW dealership won't even look at you if you ask for a discount. The 10K difference is not trivial, but you get what you pay for. The concours had its fair share of issues in the first two years, I am sure the BMW will have some problems too. Just my 2c's.

 

[Fred H.]

 
i wanted to ask guys that have ridden both, how much MORE power the BMW might seem to have.  maybe, Fred or Whaler can chime in.  yes, i am a horsepower guy, with a track gixxer 1000 and a hayabusa. really leaning towards a new C14 but would consider the BMW. i am coming off an FJR that i REALLY like.

was thinking of bumping up the C14 HP with some tasteful power mods but i really don't want a loud exhaust..

I think the biggest difference I noticed was the difference in available torque, down lower in the band on the BMW. That six cylinder just seems to be a bit more torqy on the bottom end, so the engine responds a bit faster than the C14, especially with the secondary butterflies on the C14 which further hampers it's low end torque.

 

[Sport rider]

So then, question for the masses:

If you had the $10k available to "tweek" the C14, what would you do to make it more competetive with the K16?

 

[mcrider007]

So then, question for the masses:

If you had the $10k available to "tweek" the C14, what would you do to make it more competetive with the K16?

I think the C14 is already a better sport-touring bike than the K16 but if I wanted to make the C14 more competitive as a touring bike I would upgrade the seat, the shock, and change the tires when they were halfway to the wear bars.  I would use the remaining funds to take some nice vacations.

 

[alskowi]

What a mismatch, a sports touring bike vs. a light-touring bike. I don’t care how good the BMW is it is not worth $12,000.00 + over the Connie. If I wanted another touring bike I would buy another Goldwing, if you want to ride thousands of miles in comfort with a lot of luggage the Wing is hard to beat. I ride with a group of guys and some of them ride BMW’s and none of them are looking at replacing their BMW’s with another BMW. The BMW issues are familiar, final drive issues, dry clutch, cost of maintenance is prohibitive, parts and accessories sky-high and dealer availability outside large metropolitan areas is non-existent. The BMW has some things that I would like to see on the Connie but when I recently decided to buy a new bike I was looking for best bang for the buck in the sports touring group and Kawasaki delivered big time. I love the Connie; I’ve had it for four weeks and have 2,000 miles on the odometer. The money I saved buying the Connie will be spent on touring and some accessories.

 

[jagman]

I rode the GTL demo the first week it was available. I was even there with checkbook to do a deposit behind the deposits, (being late to the pre-order deadline.)  I did play with all three power delivery options; Road, Dynamic and Rain.  The suspension adjustments are not something I investigated much.  It is a fine motorcycle and there is no question that the in-line 6 is the smoothest motorcycle engine I have ever experienced.  Yes it's quite a lot smoother than the 4cyl on the C14 particularly when running the RPMs upward.  I did not notice any hint of vibration on the GTL at any RPM.  I found the steering and turn in to be very light and predictable.  The ergo's were near perfect for me, and back to the power delivery, in Dynamic it is incredible.  The torque alone provided on this motorcycle is crazy.  Solid smooth exhilarating performance at the twist of the fly by wire throttle.  I did notice a bit of jerkiness or on/off power delivery in that mode but not in the others.  Still it's the mode I would ride the bike in without question.  WAY too much fun!  I did not necessarily find the fit and finish to be anything to get excited about.  In fact Kawasaki has done a great job with the new Concours IMO.  There were certain parts of the bike that did not look like $30K out the door to me.  Is is faster than the C14?  Yes at higher gear roll on's but not overall.  I haven't paid attention to the 0-60 stats etc but I'm betting that they are both somewhere around 3 seconds.  I would also bet that the GLT will briskly step away from the C14 at 70-100 without a down shift.  As I said there is considerably more torque delivery on the big Bimmer.

There are a lot more gripes over on the GT/GTL forum than I would have expected; such as a long running thread detailing what problems owners have incurred.  One of the big gripes is significant heat on the left side and another has been high speed straight line stability.  Very surprising to me but there none the less.

I do believe the GTL would be the choice to tour on long distance on without question over the C14.  Very comfortable bike but still didn't hit a home run on the passenger comfort front.  There is still only one king, or Sherriff if you must, and I think we all know who wears that star.  I'm not one that would heartily recommend the C14 as a top choice for two up travel for much more than a day trip.  Solo..no problem, but not two up.
All in all I the GTL is possibly the most fun MC I've ridden.  It may be over the top in some ways however.  All that said, if you want to spend or can afford $30K for a motorcycle, it should be a better bike than the C14.  The engine alone makes the bike worth it for me, but even price removed as a factor, the bike is not head and shoulders above the performance capabilities of the C14. 

Funny thing is the day I went in to ride the GTL they also had 09 K1200GT that I rode.  Also on the floor was a recently taken in trade 09 C14 with full exhaust, Two Bro can,  Power Commander, after market suspension, lowered pegs, seat, bar risers, and Cee Baileys Ultra Tour for $9k w/ 13K miles on it.  I rode it after the K1200 and went straight to the local Kawi dealer and bought my 2011 C14  As soon as I get a Guhl reflash on my Vance and Hines CS1 equipped can, I'm hoping to get somewhere close to that awesome 2009 C14 that turned my head to the point of buying one!

 

[whaler]

What a mismatch, a sports touring bike vs. a light-touring bike. I don’t care how good the BMW is it is not worth $12,000.00 + over the Connie. If I wanted another touring bike I would buy another Goldwing, if you want to ride thousands of miles in comfort with a lot of luggage the Wing is hard to beat. I ride with a group of guys and some of them ride BMW’s and none of them are looking at replacing their BMW’s with another BMW. The BMW issues are familiar, final drive issues, dry clutch, cost of maintenance is prohibitive, parts and accessories sky-high and dealer availability outside large metropolitan areas is non-existent. The BMW has some things that I would like to see on the Connie but when I recently decided to buy a new bike I was looking for best bang for the buck in the sports touring group and Kawasaki delivered big time. I love the Connie; I’ve had it for four weeks and have 2,000 miles on the odometer. The money I saved buying the Connie will be spent on touring and some accessories.

Funny, even when BMW makes a substantial design change, like equipping the new model with a wet clutch, people continue to list the old design features (dry clutch) as long standing problems. I think it makes more sense to evaluate the new bike on it's own merits.

I don't earn much money, so the K1600GT is more than I can comfortably afford. That's the bottom line, for me, but my analysis would be very different if I were wealthy. The GT does quite a few things better than the Connie, including braking and handling. It stops in substantially less distance, it tolerates more lean, and the suspension is adjustable on the roll as you transition from interstate to spirited riding in the twisties. I simply can't afford it.

As to the complaints on the K16 forum, I agree they're concerning -- the nearly inevitable new model blues, but the sole complaint about high speed instability is crapola -- at least up to 129. As I posted over there when the concern was initially raised, the bike was rock solid for us in initial testing, so the stability problem that rider experienced had something to do with that bike, the way it was loaded, or the highway it was on.

The article that kicked off this thread makes it clear that the K1600GT isn't a Goldwing competitor. It's very similar to the Connie, except it has much more low end torque and it's heavier, though it really doesn't feel like it. Acceleration numbers on the GT and Connie are almost identical, as are horsepower, top speed and quarter mile times. The GT is a Connie with more torque, better brakes, electronically adjustable suspension, cruise control, a greater lean angle, integrated navigation, better fit and finish, more leg room, AND very high pricing, short and expensive service intervals, ridiculously expensive accessories, and first year model glitches and challenges. It's the ideal bike for a rich person who wants a very fast and sporty touring bike that's comfortable solo or two-up. I fail on the "rich" part. 

My new Connie should be here by the weekend. I've ordered the peg lowering kit, new Sena comm devices, a Cortech tank bag with the GPS module and panier liners. As soon as the bike is broken in I plan to ride it down to Rick Mayer to get a new seat built with heat! I'm very excited, and I don't feel like I'm "settling", but I'll be looking hard at the K1600GT for my next bike in four or five years

 

[Sport rider]

I like your assessment Whaler.  I think you hit the nail on the head about how they differ.  One line that happened to stick out to me was your reference to the K16 as a very fast and sporty touring bike.  I view the C14 as a very fast sport bike that's comfortable for touring.  I think the appeal will be to a different demographic between the two bikes. (I could be wrong though as I've not read about either company's marketing plan.)   

The cost is the big thing to me no matter how you slice it.  I probably fit the BMW demographic in terms of income and age, but there's a "frugal" gene inside of me that hinders my ability to write a check for $25k for any mode of transportation.  ???

 

[norton]

When I was growing up in Michigan all the poor farmers had new tractors parked out front on the grass... or snow.

When I lived in California all the poor bikers slept chained to their new scoots in the parks on the grass... no snow.

Now I live in Florida and everybody that's about to lose their house has a new boat trailered behind a new dually parked out front on the grass.

I don't think it has much to do with how rich a man is.  I think it boils down to HAIR.  A man with hair down the middle of his back is more apt to go with the new Harley.  A man with hair in the palms of his hands is more apt to find happiness with something exotic like a new BMW or MV.  It takes a man with no hair in his nose to put up with the high frequency buzz that happens under a full-face helmet doing 85 on a C14.

 

[AngryBaby]

Do a couple of cheap mods to the C14 and the $25,000 BMW will be left in the dust every time!!!!! >

 

[whaler]

Do a couple of cheap mods to the C14 and the $25,000 BMW will be left in the dust every time!!!!! >

Or buy a GSX-R, or a S100RR, and leave em both in the dust without doing any additional mods? Fast is cheap these days.

I stumbled on this while trying to see what color the new 2012 Connie might be:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpTPihOYMn4