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Key stack in ignition and gas tank in cold weather

Bigben

Bigben

Scooter
Question:

Has anybody had issues with key getting stack in the ignition or gas tank?

Yesterday (Sunday) I pulled up to a gas station after riding in 17 degrees for a while. Shut the bike down and went to remove the key from the ignition and it would not come out... Played around with it for about 10 minutes and it eventually came out.

Inserted the key into the gas tank key hole, but it would not turn or come out. Bought a can of WD-40 and sprayed a little in there, waited 10 minutes and was able to open the gas tank.

I was trying to figure out what happened?  Could it be frozen water from the last time I washed the bike?  Did the locking Mechanism or the key shrink due to the cold? Has this happened to anybody? 

With wind chill factor at an average speed of 70mph, the temp would be between -11 to -24 degrees. Is that cold enough to cause shrinkage in the metal in the locking mechanism in the C-14?  I never had this problem with the C-10 , rode it in extreme cold for many years.

http://webmaster10.com/ldr/windchill.html
 
Maybe some graphite might help. I never take the key out of the ignition, I use the key in the FOB to open the gas cap when I gas up.
 
If you used that stove knob key, it's probably bent now. The key (IMO) is inadequet in design. Thus it bends quite easy. I made spare keys from the small keys in the fob. So I kept a normal key in my pocket fo the FSS functions.
Another thing, never use WD40 in locks. WD40 is proven to gum up locks and guns. Using it will cause problems.
 
I agree, never use WD 40 on loicks or switches, it is a lube not a cleaner and will attrack dust and dirt.
Cap'n Bob, what is the FSS functions??
 
joe in calif said:
Maybe some graphite might help. I never take the key out of the ignition, I use the key in the FOB to open the gas cap when I gas up.
Click to expand...

I never take mine out either, also use the fob key in the gas tank and saddlebags.
 
Larry said:
joe in calif said:
Maybe some graphite might help. I never take the key out of the ignition, I use the key in the FOB to open the gas cap when I gas up.
Click to expand...

I never take mine out either, also use the fob key in the gas tank and saddlebags.
Click to expand...

Same here, I use the key in the fob for gas cap...
 
joe in calif said:
I agree, never use WD 40 on loicks or switches, it is a lube not a cleaner and will attrack dust and dirt.
Cap'n Bob, what is the FSS functions??
Click to expand...

Fuel, seat, saddlebags
 
What do I use to cleanup or neutralize the WD-40?

joe in calif said:
I agree, never use WD 40 on loicks or switches, it is a lube not a cleaner and will attrack dust and dirt.
Cap'n Bob, what is the FSS functions??
Click to expand...
 
Non-living organisms, such as motorcycles (even if they do have a mind of their own), do not experience the pleasures or bragging rights of 'wind chill'.  :(  It was either moisture or a lube that turns to axel grease when it gets cold enough.

I have experienced gassing up in sub 20F weather with no issues.  I'd use a graphite based lock lube if I did.
 
Bigben said:
What do I use to cleanup or neutralize the WD-40?

joe in calif said:
I agree, never use WD 40 on loicks or switches, it is a lube not a cleaner and will attrack dust and dirt.
Cap'n Bob, what is the FSS functions??
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


WD-40 will dry up and leave a crusty nasty yellow residue that gums up things. It's hard to get it out again. So the sooner you flush it out, the better. If you recently put it in. Try flushing it out with a lubricant that doesn't attract dirt. (not a solvent like WD40). I use silicone spray myself. Although I'm sure there are other products (maybe better) out there. Fred had mentioned a lubricant that he liked a few times (maybe a loctite product?) I'm sure Fred will be along. But I would stick the little straw nozzle tube into the lock and let it rip. Let it over flow and wash out the WD-40.
Take it from me Ben. The last thing you want is key-switch problems. And the KIPASS activation switch (at the 9 o'clock position outside the key switch) is something you do not want to help get gummed up. So try to wash outside the lock (between the switch and housing cover) at the 9 o'clock position, to try to flush the activation switch as well.
 
WD-40 was never intended to be a lubricant.  It was specifically designed for the Air Force to be used in electronic equipment to displace water vapor.  (First used on Atlas missiles and then in Aircraft components.)  WD - Water Displacement, formula 40.

People use it for a variety of uses but in the end, it really doesn't work well in anything other than its intended purpose. 
 
The main ingredient in WD 40 is simply mineral spirits.  Mineral spirits is a solvent, and it will break down any existing lubricant or grease. This is why WD40 works so well to remove glue residue or tar. It's the mineral spirits in it that acts as a cleaner. I wouldn't ever use WD40 to lubricate anything, since it isn't a lubricant, but a solvent. Instead, I buy straight Mineral Spirits and keep in in the garage as it is a great cleaner that is safe on almost all paint.

The best way I can think of to rinse it off would be to use denatured alcohol and then let it dry.

The best dry type lubricant I have found is made by Liquid Wrench. This is probably what I would recommend on a key cylinder.

http://www.liquidwrench.com/products/#!5
 
I would like to add something about the use of graphite lube. Be very careful where you use it. I used the PB Blaster brand of it on my glove box. It specifically says on the front of the label for use on plastics among other materials. The latch was sticking a little from lack of lube after a few washings of the bike. I lubed the plastic latch mechanism and it started working better, followed by it getting very difficult to operate. This is because it started melting the plastic. I very quickly removed the box, disassembled and washed with Spray Nine and then soap and water. I was able to salvage the latch but some pieces are thin. Now it is harder to close. You can buy all the individual pieces, but if you need the housing you have to buy it as an assembly. $200 list. Suffice to say I have been watching Ebay for used ones.

Other brands may be safe, but stay away from PB!

Scott
 
Scott Bechler said:
I would like to add something about the use of graphite lube. Be very careful where you use it. I used the PB Blaster brand of it on my glove box. It specifically says on the front of the label for use on plastics among other materials. The latch was sticking a little from lack of lube after a few washings of the bike. I lubed the plastic latch mechanism and it started working better, followed by it getting very difficult to operate. This is because it started melting the plastic. I very quickly removed the box, disassembled and washed with Spray Nine and then soap and water. I was able to salvage the latch but some pieces are thin. Now it is harder to close. You can buy all the individual pieces, but if you need the housing you have to buy it as an assembly. $200 list. Suffice to say I have been watching Ebay for used ones.

Other brands may be safe, but stay away from PB!

Scott
Click to expand...

Pure graphite lube won't melt plastic. The carrier in the lube you used did that. You can get straight graphite powder for locks and it works very well. It is the only thing I would use on locks. I have used it on all the locks on the C14 and all works smoothly, I even take the stove key out and use it for everything since it is more convenient than getting the key out of the fob. The key slides in and out with no problems.
 
If the key is stuck in the ignition, gently wiggle it back and forth (emphasis on "gently") while pulling it out. If it gets stuck in the gas cap, press down on the lock to relieve the  pressure (from the lock latch) and then turn it.
 
Just curious tho, with graphite being a dry powder, what happens to it when it gets wet from riding in rain or washing the bike. Does it get all gummy and nasty when wet??
 
I use engine assembly lube on the gas cap and replenish it regularly . Put some on the key and work it into the lock also .
 
OK, since it's the season of giving. I'm going to do y'all a solid. Although you may wind up cursing me instead (like normal) over it.  :)  This is something I (and a lot of other railroaders) have known about for a long time. I've probably never mentioned it to folks on the forums or maybe even in person, because it's very hard to acquire. Anyway, here's a little secret that I've pretty much kept to myself. But like I have said, since it's Christmas and this product is very hard to find (if you can), I figure what the heck. Pass on the knowledge if it can help other folks. So here goes:
What I have found to be the best thing I've used to lubricate a locking mechanism like a motorcycle key lock. It is a product called semaphore oil . It's really an oil used on the railroad that was originally used for lubricating the very old style railroad semaphore signals. But it's still used today on some of the railroads for various other lubrication applications that need to work in wide temperature swings. Signal control boxes and switching apparatus, are a couple of places it could still be used today.
Semaphore oil is a very pure, highly refined oil. It is a much purer, thinner oil that isn't effected by heat and cold swings or attract a lot of  dirt like most oils. It's not meant for continuous heavy duty friction like in an internal combustion engine. But for something that moves now and then (but not continuously), like an old semaphore signal, or in this case, a motorcycle ignition switch. It works very well. (It also works great on guns too). The down side is that it is a can of oil. Which means application is normally applied with a eye dropper or brush. There is no option for a spray can (that I know of). So it would be hard to use it for lubricating things you can't easily get to (like the KIPASS actuator switch). But for things like key switches, put a drop or two of oil in and your good to go. It's clean and light, but is an excellent lubricant. And unlike a lot of lubricants, freezing temperatures and high summer heat will not effect it from doing it's job.
Now the problem is finding where to acquire it. (this is where you curse me) Trying to buy it may be a problem. It is not something that can be bought at Walmart or your local auto parts store. Like I said, it's mainly a railroad industry product. So if you can find a way to acquire it, it's well worth the trouble. And one can can last you a very long time if you do not squander it on things that a normal oil will be adequate for. I know it is still made today. Now if you can find a place to buy a can. I'm sure you will agree. And guard that can with your life!  :))  Seriously, if you can find a place to acquire it. I would buy a couple of cans and hold onto them. Because in my experience, you'll never find another product for lubricating things like mechanical mechanisms, quite like this. So to y'all, Merry Christmas, if you can find it!  Now good luck hunting!  ;)
 
joe in calif said:
I agree, never use WD 40 on loicks or switches, it is a lube not a cleaner and will attrack dust and dirt.
Cap'n Bob, what is the FSS functions??
Click to expand...

Actually, WD40 is a cleaner and not a lube. You have it backwards. I used it for decades in my machine shop, but never as a lubricant.

But if you spray a bunch of it in a gummed up lock, chances are you will just make it worse.

WD40 is great on duck guns when you are done and are throwing them in the cases to take home and clean. WD40 absorbs and displaces water, so its a good short term protection until real gun solvent and oil can be applied.

But don't believe me, go to the WD40 website and read the tech sheets.    :beerchug:
 
I use the stovetop 99% of the time, but I did notice that the tank lock started giving me problems pretty quickly after buying the bike. Hard to get the key in and hard to turn it.

I gave a very tiny shot of Rem-Oil (gun oil) into the lock and then shot some into the two lugs on the bottom of the lock. A drop on the key itself and pushed it in and out of the keyhole loosened that right up. Turned it a few times to work the lugs and everything was back to normal and hasn't been a problem since.
 
If it is hard to turn, check if the key itself on the stove knob is "twisted" at all,  What happens is sometimes people twist or yank too hard, and since that key itself is made out of find grade chocolate it bends or twists and that can get it caught.

I have used my stove knob key in 20 degree weather without a problem but I do the following

1) Use a lock cyl lube that I got from my local locksmith (He just shoots a bit into my locks once in  while and i buy him coffee :) )  Not sure what it is but it works.

2) When opening the gas cap,  press DOWN on the cap itself while turning the key gently,  this releases the pressure on the lock mechanism and makes it MUCH harder to bend the key
3) When closing the cap,  press down the cap all the way and manually turn the key (Gently) back to lock,  again this releases the pressure so that you can't bend the key.



I have an external key as well that I use on the saddlebags,  but for me I like the convenience of the stove knob when gassing up is just too great to pass up,


Would be SOOO much better if Kawi would use a stronger metal on this key IMHO :(
 
Cap'n Bob said:
If you used that stove knob key, it's probably bent now. The key (IMO) is inadequet in design. Thus it bends quite easy. I made spare keys from the small keys in the fob. So I kept a normal key in my pocket fo the FSS functions.
Click to expand...

^^^ THIS.
Me too
 
If you do manage to find semaphore oil you can put it in a "Preval Sprayer" if you want it aerosol.  It's made for paints but works with many fluids, just be mindfull of which solvents you use.
 
gtskev said:
If you do manage to find semaphore oil you can put it in a "Preval Sprayer" if you want it aerosol.  It's made for paints but works with many fluids, just be mindfull of which solvents you use.
Click to expand...


That's a great idea. I can't believe that I never thought of that myself!  :-[
 
flashback50 said:
Just curious tho, with graphite being a dry powder, what happens to it when it gets wet from riding in rain or washing the bike. Does it get all gummy and nasty when wet??
Click to expand...

No it doesn't gum up, that is what is so great about it for locks. Straight graphite is the recommended lube for locks.
 
Phil said:
flashback50 said:
Just curious tho, with graphite being a dry powder, what happens to it when it gets wet from riding in rain or washing the bike. Does it get all gummy and nasty when wet??
Click to expand...

No it doesn't gum up, that is what is so great about it for locks. Straight graphite is the recommended lube for locks.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clearing that up. I always wondered about it. But never knew till now
 
Medco, the key company, has a spray lube that we use for aircraft locks. There is nothing better and it is a similar environment to a motorcycle. It  appears to be a silicone and it is a spray, I don't know the price.
 
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