-
WOULD YOU LIKE TO BE ABLE TO POST? REGISTER FOR COG MEMBERSHIP
All registration must be done through the club's main webpage: To register / join COG, click here
For instructions to convert to full membership, click here
-
Can't post after logging to the forum for the first time... Try Again - If you can't post in the forum, sign out of both the membership site and the forum and log in again. Make sure your COG membership is active and your browser allow cookies. If you still can't post, contact the COG IT guy at IT@Concours.org.
Light safety triangle
- Thread starter rwulf
- Start date
RWulf......thanks for sharing this article.......I've been hoping that switching to HID lights would be enough........it has definitely helped improved my visibility but after reading this I'll jump off the fence on further light farkling to add additional lighting......what a terrific technical discussion of the issue!..........so my question now is which lights to get and where to put them........Chris
gMitch said:
I have the D2's and it has greatly diminished my invisibility factor.
I ran across a similar article to the one that is posted below. Motion Camouflage. The lack of perceived motion to the observer. This also has changed my view on intersections and merging scenarios. For you nautical types, Constant Bearing Decreasing Range (CBDR).
They pull out in front of you because you are invisible in their field of view due to a lack of perceived motion against the viewed background.
http://www.motorcycleinfo.co.uk/index.cfm?fa=contentGeneric.twhhyjzpxapzkouq&pageId=146841
ANY lights on the front will help - they create an unusual configuration, while our single headlight just doesn't seem to get their attention.
I installed a set of WalMart Specials (2" halogen lights - $18!) on the front, just inside the mirrors, and put my headlight flicker unit on them (headlight is HID so can't flicker it). Even these make a big difference. People notice me much more- I see them do double-takes and sudden stops all the time. The flicker unit is on during the day - I have it switched so I can turn off at night. Unfortunately this doesn't work with LED's.
Not the best solution, but works for now. I can easily see how adding lights to the lower fork would really make a difference too.
I also do a LOT of movement while driving - switching sides of my lane (on two lane roads with oncoming traffic), changing lanes on the highway a lot, and avoid being around cars in general if I can. Movement is key - that's what catches people's eye.
I installed a set of WalMart Specials (2" halogen lights - $18!) on the front, just inside the mirrors, and put my headlight flicker unit on them (headlight is HID so can't flicker it). Even these make a big difference. People notice me much more- I see them do double-takes and sudden stops all the time. The flicker unit is on during the day - I have it switched so I can turn off at night. Unfortunately this doesn't work with LED's.
Not the best solution, but works for now. I can easily see how adding lights to the lower fork would really make a difference too.
I also do a LOT of movement while driving - switching sides of my lane (on two lane roads with oncoming traffic), changing lanes on the highway a lot, and avoid being around cars in general if I can. Movement is key - that's what catches people's eye.
Attachments
handyman said:
Interesting.. Because my last intersection mishap is exactly what is noted in this article, "he came out of nowhere" was her exact statement on the police report... Except she froze when she was parked on my left leg, instead of the middle of the intersection
So besides the extra driving lights, will keep this in mind... Because honestly I thought we made I contact
ppenrose
Street Cruiser
I put the Phillips H7 MotoVision bulb in my Connie when the stocker burned out. It has an orange reflector that gives the headlight a slightly orange look when viewed head on. It looks white to the driver. I don't know if it is helping to make me more visible, but I figure anything that helps is great, even if it only gets one person to see me that otherwise wouldn't have. Has anyone else used this bulb?
MONDOMOTOS has a really nice LED light kit with everything included for 130$. I have mine mounted down low on the front fender mounting bolts. Way cheaper than the Piaa and Hella lights from the bigger stores. Always getting compliments on the light setup I have, HID and Mondomotos LED. VERY visible even in bright daylight hours.
Matt
Matt
tfly
Moped
mattchewn said:
:great: enough said
exact same setup :beerchug:
http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,47619.msg323175.html#msg323175
RWulf said:
I think it's time to go back to the drawing board...
Just got back from my favorite half day road in Jersy... Not once, but twice.. Had close calls
First one was oncoming traffic and the guy didn't even bother to slow down.. Just followed through his turn as if he was the only one on the road
Second one was a van making a left from a driveway.. He was fully stopped and before you knew it he decided to go WTF!!
I had time to react on both occasions and was anticipating it.. As I mentioned this is one of my favs.. So I know when and when not to "pace" on this route
Besides more lights I think I will put some effort into sound as well,, if I had a louder pipe I think scenario #2 could of been avoided...maybe??
To bad though I'm kind of enjoying the lack of highway exhaust drone..
Be safe and focused out there ladies and gents... It ain't easy
I originally had the D1s mounted alone on my fender bolts just for the triangle of light theory, mostly for daylight use.
When I used them at night, I would get a lot of complaints (flashing) from other drivers. I couldn't get my headlights
dimmed and then hit the off switch for the D1s quick enough to suit them. I went back in and hooked them to the high beams
and mounted Hyper-Whites on top of them and hooked those into the low beam circuit. Now I have the best of both,
a nice triangle of light in high or low beam.
If I really get concerned about visibility (does it seem that some days people are driving more erratically than they usually do?..or is it me being more aware?)
I can make the Hyper-Whites modulate and turn the D1s on when the low beam is on with an over ride switch for the D1s.
When I used them at night, I would get a lot of complaints (flashing) from other drivers. I couldn't get my headlights
dimmed and then hit the off switch for the D1s quick enough to suit them. I went back in and hooked them to the high beams
and mounted Hyper-Whites on top of them and hooked those into the low beam circuit. Now I have the best of both,
a nice triangle of light in high or low beam.
If I really get concerned about visibility (does it seem that some days people are driving more erratically than they usually do?..or is it me being more aware?)
I can make the Hyper-Whites modulate and turn the D1s on when the low beam is on with an over ride switch for the D1s.
With soundproofing in cars now a days, I don't think a louder exhaust is going to help much for front visibility. Might, however, help a tiny bit side by side on a multi-lane road.
I just added Mondos on the reflector mounts and HIDs. I got a second set of the reflector brackets that I plan to strengthen up a bit and use to reduce the possibility of any future vibration damage (although I hear that's not an issue).
I also upgraded the horn, getting the ones Murph sells. They are louder, but still would like a motorcycle horn. I thought the type of sound was important as a car that hears an air horn might have their eyes open for an 18 wheeler, not a 2 wheeler....
I just added Mondos on the reflector mounts and HIDs. I got a second set of the reflector brackets that I plan to strengthen up a bit and use to reduce the possibility of any future vibration damage (although I hear that's not an issue).
I also upgraded the horn, getting the ones Murph sells. They are louder, but still would like a motorcycle horn. I thought the type of sound was important as a car that hears an air horn might have their eyes open for an 18 wheeler, not a 2 wheeler....
LennyK said:
Unfortunately, your last sentence is the best advice. I've had both of those type experiences when caged. I know this thread is about being noticed, and specifically about the triangle of light to make that happen. However, some drivers just don't care ("Me first, I'm in a hurry! Sure I see you and all your gaudy lights, but you see me too. You've got brakes, use 'em!"), and others just can't judge speed or distance worth a darn. Some see a vehicle approaching but have no ability to judge speed, only distance. They will pull out in front of you (whether you're caged or free) if you are at their preconceived safe distance rule whether you are doing 35 mph or 135 mph. It's sometimes difficult to comprehend for us as motorcyclists (you know, able to drive and lean at the same time :-\ ), but there are many drivers out there whose abilities are fully taxed at the simplest things. Some can't even turn into a shopping center driveway unless they have the whole driveway (both sides) to themselves. Ever just sit and watch a double left turn lane intersection? Most on the inside turn lane drift wide and most on the outside cut the corner to the inside. The curved dash lines painted on the street to help guide them are just as invisible to them as a motorcycle.
I think you just want a louder muffler. :motonoises: ;D You're just practicing on us, if you can convince us it's a safety item then maybe the SO will buy it too?LennyK said:
LennyK said:
It is possible to go too far, your friends start saying "
Don't ask me how I know. LED RUnning light/Signals on Vimeo.
Perhaps the best visibility program is to make yourself look (as much as you legally can) to appear to be a Police Officer: dark bike; strange lights (but legal colors);
white helmet w/black Super-Visor; Hi-Viz vest; black boots. <---Hey that's me! (note to self, get antenna for bike, to complete the ensemble)
LennyK said:
I tap the horn....a LOT. So much so that my pillion has commented on it, that I'm using the horn ALL THE TIME. Yep, sure am.
Lot's of quick tap-taps to just get attention - I think most pople recognize the tap-tap of a horn as just an attention getter, not the aggressive "hey you jacka**, stop being an idiot" kind of sound.
I'd really like a two-stage or dual-button horn setup - stage one is the normal bike horns that only does an attention-getting toot-toot like the double-tap, so people with think to look for a bike. Would also be useful at traffic lights when the car in front has fallen asleep on the green.
The second button/stage would engage all the horns (I currently have the standard horns and the knock-off stebels) as the "holy smokes somethings wrong!" sound.
There's that one kit that's available that accomplishes part of this, including a light-flash, but it doesn't have the first part that I'd like (the toot-toot) which I find is REALLY useful - people seem to have a good reaction to it. I try to use it VERY pre-emptively, like when I can tell someone is likely to not realize where I'm going to be in 15-20 seconds...tap it NOW and people look around and see that I'm moving up, changing lanes, whatever.
Aside - THIS would be my argument why "loud pipes save lives". If you can honestly argue that horns DON'T save lives then you can say loud pipes don't. Can't have one without the other. And I don't even LIKE loud pipes (running stock, and will stay that way). Are loud pipes the best/only tool? No, but certainly part of a package. Just like the issues with silent hybrids - sound is a significant communicaiton tool.
Re: lighting - while some people find the flicker units annoying (and I agree, they are), they are also EFFECTIVE. The difference between my flicker unit being off or on is huge, especially in traffic/busy environments. If light-intensity-variation wasn't an effective attention-getting mechanism, would we still use them on emergency vehicles? (Well, yea, we probably would, cause bureaucratic organizations don't change readily, or for rational/logical reasons :-\). But we all know we notice the flashing red/blue of...let's say FIRE trucks, we also notice when people flash their high beams in the daytime, or a vehicle has a lighting issue. Our visual perceptive system is optimized for noticing change (which, incidentally is part of what makes digital "film" so efficient on data storage sizes while still being effective at presenting a "moving" picture-most of a scene is relatively static).
Still, all of these elements need to be used judiciously, as part of a system/methodology for maintaining visibility and reducing involvement in elevated-risk scenarios.
One of my next upgrades is low-mounted (on the fork) LEDs of reasonable brightness - several hundred lumen - 800 or better.
FM... Funny you mention the double left turn, On my way to the family function earlier this evening in my cage some idiot did exactly as described except it was a double right on a traffic circle, where the mid and right lanes are reserved to continue on the same route, this guy drifted in to my lane and of course I got fumed and politely explained the proper way.. Guess he didn't speak English.. Wouldn't even look at me.
JB...I have the amber photon blasters up front hooked up to modulate from 2 quick horn blasts
So I can cover the audible and visual part.. And scenario #2 still didn't see me
Next time I will give the quick 2 blasts.. And then hold on to the horn till I cross the intersection, driveway, etc..
It's a work in progress... And sure takes the joy out of this therapy at times, but I believe the exercise,, hopefully keeps you sharp
Forgot to mention earlier...There's another thread re: ABS.. All I can say is I'm glad the bike has it, scenario #1 had one of those triangular intersections where the oncoming traffic making left turns are actually bearing left rather than making a real turn so this car and myself are in a collision course for a moment and had me grab a handful of brake and the second scenario was more controlled but still I was hard on that brake
JB...I have the amber photon blasters up front hooked up to modulate from 2 quick horn blasts
So I can cover the audible and visual part.. And scenario #2 still didn't see me
Next time I will give the quick 2 blasts.. And then hold on to the horn till I cross the intersection, driveway, etc..
It's a work in progress... And sure takes the joy out of this therapy at times, but I believe the exercise,, hopefully keeps you sharp
Forgot to mention earlier...There's another thread re: ABS.. All I can say is I'm glad the bike has it, scenario #1 had one of those triangular intersections where the oncoming traffic making left turns are actually bearing left rather than making a real turn so this car and myself are in a collision course for a moment and had me grab a handful of brake and the second scenario was more controlled but still I was hard on that brake