More Miles Between Changes

[caeman]

I am probably going to get the stink eye from some purists or mechanics, but... If I go with a good synthetic like Royal Purple or Amsoil for my next fluids change (oil, drive shaft), would I be able to go longer than 6,000 miles between changes and not hurt anything? : 42k miles

 

[richreed701]

OIL QUESTION ALERT!!!! Stand by to repel boarders!!! Chad: You will no doubt received either a few dozen opinions of what's good and what's bad, or we'll all ignore you comepletely. Regardless, the effect is the same: You will likely NOT get a definitive answer to your question. For the factual answer, I refer you to your owner's manual or the Concours Shop Manual. Personally, I always change my oil and filter every 3000 to 4500 miles, or as soon as I come off a tour, and use a good quality dino juice. It makes me feel good doing it this way, and my bikes seem to thrive on this regimine. I have tried synthetics and never could determine any value returned for the extra expense. Let the opinions fly. Because they will.

 

[Ranger Jim]

It all depends. (How's that for non-definitive, Rich?) A lot depends on how and where you ride. Do you ride close to redline a lot? Do you ride in hot conditions a lot? I'm pretty easy on my bike but I do ride in some beastly hot conditions so I change my oil (Mobil 1, 15W50) every 5K-6K and adjust the valves at every other oil change. If you have a tendency to ride her hard (especially in hot weather) then you might want to consider more frequent changes. YMMV.

 

[slybonesjesse]

I have two parts: Part one: One of the things I learned over in the truck club from the many oil debates is... our filters filter 100% of the oil all the time. To maintain oil pressure, flow, etc the filtering cannot be very tight. Most our "full flow" oil filters only filter down into the 30-40 micron range. However oil by-pass filter setups ( hard to install on the Connie ) filter down below 1 micron. In order to filter like this, you cannot filter 100% oil and maintain pressure. So they by-pass most of the oil and only filter like 10% at any one time. Over the course of running the engine all of the oil gets filtered.-- Most guys adding these to their pickups add this inline and have both filter setups.-- Also note by-pass filter like this are STD procedure in many other industries. The point... Is I believe that bearing surfaces where oil provides that thin layer of protection are only a few microns. All the particles below a micron can pass w/o causing too much harm. All the particles between 2-30 are potnetial wear particles. A full flow oil filter cannot filter out all the harmfull particles. You need to add a by-pass filter fo this. MY OPINION is if you cannot filter them out, you have to change them out. I am not a believer in extended drain intervals unless you have a bypass filter setup. Having said that I do believe in the double the life for synthetics. Meaning 3K for dino, 6K for synthetics. Or like my truck 3750 for dino (per the manual ) or 7500 for synth. But I would not go over this unless I installed a bypass. I apply the same theory to the M/Cs, cars and other vehicles. Since I cannot filter out them particles between 2-30 microns I change them out at regular intervals. 2003 Concours, 51K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://mysite.verizon.net/slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[slybonesjesse]

Part two: From a pure cost point of view, at over 2x the price for the oil, and only changing it 1/2 as often, one less filter, and a bit less work, I see it as a break even deal. You can go either way really. It will all depend on each individual and your priorties. How much value do you place on that little extra time you save yourself, etc. etc. Where I think the benefit of Synthetics is in the tempurature characteristics. Like mentioned it does much better in the hot. For turbo charged vehicles where the oil is used for cooling turbos which can get quite hot, then just shut off w/o cooling, and other such things I kinda like the synthetic. 2003 Concours, 51K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://mysite.verizon.net/slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[slybonesjesse]

Well ok three parts, just to bump my post count. On the connie like the synthetic and still change at 6K. I mostly like the synthetics for the thermal stuff. On the truck, being turbo charged, I also use the synth at 7500 intervals and its going in 170K and counting. At much of that at over 500 rear wheel HP. Drag racing it, towing the RV with, using it as a daily driver, etc. On the car, where its pretty new and has a warranty to maintain. 3750 like like the manual says. Dont want to give them an excuse to screw me someday. So its 3750 like the book says. And like Rich, I dont see the value of the extra expense in this case, at that interval. Dino in the car. 2003 Concours, 51K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://mysite.verizon.net/slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[EddieM]

Here's my two cents. I run Rotella T synthetic and change at 6,000 miles. I have over 40,000 on my '05 with no problems. I'm like Sly... I prefer the synthetic for it's better high temp performance. I live in Florida where summer starts in April and goes through November! The high temp stability of synthetic oil, in my mind, provides better protection in these conditions. For what it's worth. Eddie Sanford, FL 2005 Concours 1969 Triumph Bonneville AMA# 686667 COG# 7073 CDA# 0136 http://picasaweb.google.com/Eddie753

 

[2linby]

Arggggghhhhhhh!!!! Make the bad man go away! AArrrrrgggggghhhhhhh.... Hey man what the heck are you trying to do? Kidding. As any riders are out there you will receive double the opinions on this one. Here's the deal. There can be little argument that synthetic oil is a superior lubricant. However this does not keep it from getting as dirty as fast as Dino. Therefore using this as your meter stick (yes I said meter HA!) you really don't gain extra time or mileage as a result of using synthetic. Now for my version of Freds two part/ err three part response. I use synthetic and I usually change my oil every 5K. But I've been known to go longer than this and I have 128,000 K on my 2001, so.... Best advice I can give is change it every 5K Dino or Synthetic and all should be good in the world. AKA "2linby" That's 2-lin-by folks! Northwest Area Director COG #5539 AMA #927779 IBA #15034 TEAM OREGON MC Instructor http://community.webshots.com/user/2linby http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BunBurner Gold Trip) http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip)

 

[slybonesjesse]

However this does not keep it from getting as dirty as fast as Dino. Personally I kinda agree and disagree. I will completely contradict myself here. Contamination from things like blow by, fuels, glycol, etc I tend to agree. But at the same time "I" think part of what makes oil turn from that opaque golden brown color to the dirty looking black color is the break down of the oil itself. And I dont think its a linear curve. The sooner and faster it starts breaking down the faster it breaks down. In the truck club world one of the things some find popular is oil analysis. A few years ago I was really into it. Now I dont waste my money. But I used to buy oil sample bottles and fill up a sample from both the wifes old car and my truck. And send them in. They return you a report that has all sorts of stuff in it from spectrochemical analysis -- wear metals, contamination ( silicon, boron, sodium ), additive package metals like molybdenum and , zinc. 20 different ones in all -- then stuff like Fuel, water, soot/solids, glycol. Viscosity at 40*C and 100*C both. -- And then finally addative package testing to show how well the oil additives are holding up. In any case I did my own little experiment with the wifes old car and the truck of back to back to back oil analysis with dino at the factory change for several changes to form a pattern, then synth at factory intervals for several changes, and then synth for 2x for several intervals. -- From a wear metals point of view and an additive point of view the synth's held up at 2x quite well. From the fuel, water, glycol contamination point of view the results were same rate as dino. Hence my agreement on contamination, but not from wear metals and additives. Since the rates on the contamination was always very low on both our engines I have given into the theory that 2x with synth is ok. BUT having said that, I still think back to them 2-30 micro particles, filtration, and what Bob said, it gets dirty just as fast. Anyone not wanting to agree in 2x, well thats ok my be. I didnt used to agree with 2x either. And now I only give into the 2x theory and wouldnt go a lick over that. No extended intervals w/o by-pass filtration. Period. AND anyone worried about maintain the warranty should ignore that jibberish and change the oil just like it says in the book. The MFG's aint gonna give a crap about my oil analysis experiments or any of that. And you dont want to give them an excuse to void your warranty on an engine related failure and claim it was because you didnt change your oil at the recommended intervals. Anyways I guess I just wanted to share my oil analysis adventure, back when I burned $15 per oil change to send in them sample bottles ( which I still have 2 out in the garage ). 2003 Concours, 51K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://mysite.verizon.net/slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm

 

[norm9688]

I'm more with Rich on this, a good Dyno oil changed every 3-4000 miles is fine with me,maybe I'm just too cheap to send the $$ for synthetic but there is no doubt its as good or better than dyno oils. In any case regular changes WITH the filter is cheap insurance for long engine life. One thing about bikes is that the clutch and transmission all share the same oil with the engine and the trans is tough on ANY oil. Be sure to check the oil level often if your going to go long on the intervals. Doing the oil change also gives me the chance to touch and look at things I might not check regularly like looking for loose bolts and things like that. I had a Volvo 740 Sedan I owned from new that had 340k on the OE engine and trans, burned 1 qt every 3k and still got around 21 MPG. Changed the oil every 3-4k. Might still own it if it had not been side swiped by a dude with no insurance or license.

 

[slybonesjesse]

Well just because there is nothing on TV, the grandkids are driving me nuts, and I am hiding in the computer room, and this is the only thread in town..... I was thinking back to the truck club yet again, and the guys there who do not run by-pass filters and do use extended intervals using only oil analysis as their guide. The theory being that they change the filter ever 7.5K, add some make up oil, and only change the oil when oil analysis says its time. Some do it, but I cant bring myself to. I think back to that 24 page oil thread on the TDR back many moons ago, and oil engineers, experts talking about oil. This is where I believe it was I agreed with the folks who talked about filtration levels and oil film levels in bearing surfaces like cam journals and cranks, etc. I wouldnt mind hearing from the engine experts here about the thichness in here and the # microns we got to play with like I mentioned above. Whats you engine dudes gots to say... How about filtration levels, anyone know what our stock paper filters are good for? How about the ones used for the Bergman adapter? I assume those are the std 30-40 micros like average car filters. How to these compare in filtration levels. 2003 Concours, 51K COG #6953 IBA 28004 http://mysite.verizon.net/slybones/Concours/connieMain.htm