Oil question - any reason not to use automobile oil in the C14?

[ZGCanuck]

Hi All, 

I was a member on the old forum, but had to be recreated on this new forum.  Looks great!!!  I hope I can offer some positive contributions to the group!

I searched the board for an answer to this, but couldnt find anything, so I thought I would pose a question....

I'm coming up on an oil change on my 2008 Concours 14, so I had another lookie in my owner's manual to see what the oil specs were. Previous oil changes were done by the dealership using Kawasaki synthetic oil. Surprisingly, the manual says nothing about using any special type of oil in the engine. My previous bikes (Yamaha FZ1 and a couple of FJR 1300s) specifically stated not to use any oils that were "energy conserving" (presumably because it is too slippery and would cause clutch slippage) which pretty much ruled out using oil made for cars but there is no such warning in the Kawasaki owner's manual.

Any opinions? Should I try using a jug of synthetic oil that is not motorcycle-specific?

Also, anyone have any experience with Motul Oil?  Which one do you use? 

 

[Cap'n Bob]

I've used normal automobile Mobil 1 in my bikes for years, and never had a probelm. But you have to watch out for the energy conserving additives in some normal oils. Although it may be better to stick with motorcycle specific brands, it's not totally nessasary. Here, Fred said this very well just a few days back. So I'll just quote him. It's got the nice picture and everything! 

Mobil One 15w-50 is fine to run in a bike, as it is not an "Energy Conserving" oil. I've been using it for about 15 years now in various bikes. Napa is currently running a sale on it this month for $4.99 a qt.

The thing you have to watch out for when using automotive oils in a motorcycle is the word "Energy Conserving" in the bottom half of the API symbol on the oil container. This indicates it has friction modifiers in it (generally it's molybdenum disulfide). These friction modifiers can get absorbed into the clutch plates and make the clutch slip. They also can cause problems with sprag clutches which are used on some motorcycles starter motors, when they make the sprags too slippery, causing the starter motor not to engage and free spin, usually on the first cold start of the day.

Typically, most all 10w-30 and 5w-whatever oils you'll find at the store are now marked as Energy Conserving. There are only a few left that are not. Mobil One 15-w-50 is one of them, though the other viscosities of Mobil One are Energy Conserving oils.

And one last point I'd like to make. You are far better off using a cheaper oil and changing it more often than using a high dollar oil and running so called "extended drain intervals". Don't get sold a bill of goods on oils that claim to last 10K miles and not need changing. Your engine gets dirt and contaminates in it, both particulate and liquid (acid, moisture etc) and your oil filter won't remove many of them. The only way to get them out is to change the oil. Dirt inside your engine accelerates wear. The single best thing you can do to extend the life of any engine is to change the oil often. Extended oil change intervals are folly. Remember the old adage, penny wise and pound foolish.

The API symbol looks like this: (Note the words Energy Conserving in the bottom half of the circle)

 

[ZGCanuck]

Thanks for sharing your experience with me, Cap'n Bob!

I did read the post you referred to, and it made sense based on what I had read in my Yamaha owner's manuals, but strangely, there is no mention in the Kawasaki Owners Manual about not using oils that are designated "energy conserving."  One might think that the same principles would apply... wonder why Kawasaki didnt mention them?

 

[joer53]

I use Kawasaki synthetic and a Kawasaki filter in mine.  Don't see any reason to change.

Oh boy, an oil thread!

 

[ZGCanuck]

Ya gotta love these oil threads!  Thanks for the advice everyone!

As it turns out, my Scottish thriftiness didn't need to take a beating on this one.  I discovered that I can buy Motul 300v synthetic for a little more than $25 for a 4 liter jug through a special promotion at a local motorcycle shop (regular price - $57.)  That is much more reasonable than paying $20/liter that another dealership wanted for all of their synthetic oils (all brands same price - go figure!)

 

[Cap'n Bob]

I should clarify after re-reading my post. I have for many, many years used normal Mobil 1 in my bikes, without troubles.  But For the last 5-10 years, I have been running the Mobil 1 4T motorcycle oil in the bikes. Probably not a whole lot of difference though! But the price is a little more for the 4T over normal automotive oil. So I am considering going back to normal Mobil 1!

 

[ZGCanuck]

Okay.... got the answer.... thought I would share.

It turns out that, if I had done my homework, I would have discovered that the requirement for non-friction modified oils was cleverly hidden.
From the owner's manual, the oil specs needed are this:
Type: API SE, SF or SGAPI SH, SJ or SL with
JASO MA, MA1 or MA2


After doing a bit of research, I discovered that JASO MA, MA1 and MA2 are standards developed in Japan for Motorcycle engines that mean "Non-Friction modified" which means that oils that are called "energy conserving" are not suitable as they are too slippery for wet clutches and may cause the clutch to slip while under load.

There is an interesting article here from Motul -  http://www.witchkraftracing.com/pdf/motul_synthetics_v1.4.pdf

Here are some other interesting articles that I came across....
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/146_0308_oil/index.html (excellent oil test article)
http://www.peterverdonedesigns.com/files/JASO.pdf  (explanation of the JASO standard and certification process)

 

[Fred H.]

The problem has been compounded recently by the fact that there are very few non-Energy Conserving automotive oils left on the market. So if you want to run an automotive oil, you really only have a couple choices. Mobil One 15w-50 is also getting harder to find. Wal Mart used to carry it, but lately I'm not finding it there anymore. There also aren't a lot of 10w-40 oils left on the market either.

 

[PatM]

You may want to have a look at Diesel engine oils. Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic 5W40 is Jaso MA certified.
http://www.shell.com/home/content/rotella/products/t6/

 

[ZGCanuck]

Thanks for the info Pat!

There are many on the gtamotorcycle.com forum who use the Shell Rotella and swear by it.  It is quite inexpensive as well!

 

[Fred H.]

You may want to have a look at Diesel engine oils. Shell Rotella T6 Synthetic 5W40 is Jaso MA certified.
http://www.shell.com/home/content/rotella/products/t6/

Personally, I would never put an oil with a lower viscosity number of 5w in any motorcycle I own. 5w-40 is made from a base stock 5 weight oil, and its too thin to properly lubricate the transmission. While it may not be energy conserving, its the wrong viscosity, and using the proper viscosity is the single most important item to pay attention to when choosing an oil, especially when the engine and transmission share the same oil.

 

[mgoodrich]

Sorry, I disagree with your reasoning.  Here is a link that I hope you will take time to read.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

 

[Fred H.]

See the oil chart in your owners manual on page 191. It calls for oil ranging from 10w-30 to 20w-50

It does NOT recommend any 5w-anything oils. They are simply too low of a viscosity for the transmission.

Sorry, I disagree with your reasoning.  Here is a link that I hope you will take time to read.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/motor-oil-101/

The article you cited refers to automotive applications, not motorcycles where the engine and transmission share the same oil. Transmissions need a heavier weight oil in them.

 

[mkorn]

I put Rotella T 15W-40 in mine last thursday and did 685 miles in two days. it shifted great the whole way.
But, now there is a burnt oil looking film on the muffler tip.  i hadnt noticed it before.

Hoping its nothing to worry about.

 

[thedugger]

I just follow the manual.  If figure that engineers smarter than I designed the bike and they know best.  If they get it wrong, I have the Kawasaki 3 year warranty. 
D

 

[zorlac]

I run Mobil 0W-40 in my C10 because it "accommodates my atmospheric conditions" better and my old tranny can take it.  :nananana:

 

[keithg]

Why do people spend $10K plus on a bike and try to take a shortcut to save a couple bucks on the oil?  Have had Harleys for 21 years and used HD oil and have had ZERO issues. I have used HONDA oil in my XR650 and had ZERO issues. MOTUL was recommended for my Aprilia and I have used that with ZERO issues.  There is a PATTERN here.......................

 

[sands]

Actually, oil related engine problems are extremely rare provided correct viscosity and oil change intervals are followed...The only time I've seen someone with an oil related issue was because they left it in there way too long or they let the oil level go too low and that's owner error.

A few posters have mentioned that non energy conserving oils are difficult to find...That's only true if you're looking at 10W30 and lower weights...Most 10W40's are non energy conserving and at the local wallyworld 10W40 non energy conserving oils are all over the shelves...

Personally I use Rotella 15W40...Got 26,000 miles and no problems...Know a fellow that has a bandit 1200 (air cooled) with over 100,000 miles on it using nothing but Rotella 15W40 with never one issue...Most of those miles were before Rotella carried the JASO MA rating...I used to use Mobil 15W50 in my last bike (RC51) and no problems.