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Re: More Power split- fork tubes
- Thread starter Redbarron
- Start date
gfinca
Crotch Rocket
Redbarron said:
As Rev said, if that includes the wheel, brakes and triples, it is a good deal, if it is only the forks and triples, it is probably a little high.
Another option in the handling department is to install the front end from a mid-90's ZX9. I have done this, and it really transforms the handling, and gives you excellent brakes and a 17" front wheel. It does require some machining and minor fabrication, but given that you can find all the parts necessary for the same or less money as a ZRX front end, it ends up being in the same ballpark cost-wise as the ZRX conversion. Here's what you end up with:
gfinca
Crotch Rocket
As a start, here are the parts you'll need for the swap:
- Forks from a ZX9, model year 1994 thru 1997 model (B1 thru B4).
- Upper and lower triple clamps from a 1994 thru 1996 ZX7, or a lower triple clamp from a 1994 thru 1997 ZX9 and the upper triple clamp from a 1994 to 2003 ZX7. The ZX9 top triple is not recommended, as it will effectively lower the front another 1/2".
- Wheel, axle, speedo drive, and 320 mm rotors from a donor compatible with the ZX9, which includes the ZX11, ZZR1200, and mid-90's ZX7
- Calipers compatible with the ZX9. For the 1994 thru 1996 zx9 these would be 4 piston Tokicos or Nissins, and for the 1997 they would be 6 piston Tokicos.
- Some way of mounting handlebars to the ZX7 top triple clamp, since the ZX9 used clip-on handlebars, which would not clear the Concours tank. I bought some dirt bike handlebar risers that I adapted to the top triple clamp.
- A fender from a ZX9 or ZX7, or an adapted fender.
- A new lower stem bearing.
There are usually 3 or 4 sets of the ZX forks on eBay, or, even better is to source the complete front end from a ZX.
The majority of the machine work is done to make the ZX triples fit the Connie steering head by installing the Connie steering stem into the ZX lower triple, reducing the thickness of the ZX top triple, and installing a bushing into the ZX top triple to accommodate the smaller Connie stem. The C10 stem must be removed intact from the C10 bottom triple, and the ZX bottom triple modified to fit the C10 stem.
The ZX stem is left in the triple and used as a bushing for the C10 stem. The ZX stem is cut off above the top of the triple, and the ZX seal boss is machined off flush with the top of the triple. Once you have the stem out of the C10 triple, and you look at the features on the triple at the base of the stem that need to be replicated, it should be fairly clear what needs to be done, but I have a drawing that shows the dimensions for this, so PM me if you need it. The C10 stem is then pressed into the ZX triple.
The ZX top triple needs to be machined so that its thickness matches the thickness of the C10 top triple, and a bushing needs to be installed in the ZX triple for the smaller C10 stem.
The ZX top triple needs to be modified for mounting tubular handlebars, and to allow the C10 ignition switch/ lock housing to be installed.
You'll need to make a new steering stop, as well as trimming the top corners off the bottom triple to clear the fairing support. The ZX steering stop tabs will need to be trimmed slightly to clear the old C10 steering stop.
Once all the mods have been done to the triples and the Connie frame, the rest is a matter of installing the forks in the frame, as you would for the stock forks, including installing a new lower stem bearing, connecting brake hoses, etc.
Well, that should be enough to give you a good feel for the project, let me know if you need any more information.
- Forks from a ZX9, model year 1994 thru 1997 model (B1 thru B4).
- Upper and lower triple clamps from a 1994 thru 1996 ZX7, or a lower triple clamp from a 1994 thru 1997 ZX9 and the upper triple clamp from a 1994 to 2003 ZX7. The ZX9 top triple is not recommended, as it will effectively lower the front another 1/2".
- Wheel, axle, speedo drive, and 320 mm rotors from a donor compatible with the ZX9, which includes the ZX11, ZZR1200, and mid-90's ZX7
- Calipers compatible with the ZX9. For the 1994 thru 1996 zx9 these would be 4 piston Tokicos or Nissins, and for the 1997 they would be 6 piston Tokicos.
- Some way of mounting handlebars to the ZX7 top triple clamp, since the ZX9 used clip-on handlebars, which would not clear the Concours tank. I bought some dirt bike handlebar risers that I adapted to the top triple clamp.
- A fender from a ZX9 or ZX7, or an adapted fender.
- A new lower stem bearing.
There are usually 3 or 4 sets of the ZX forks on eBay, or, even better is to source the complete front end from a ZX.
The majority of the machine work is done to make the ZX triples fit the Connie steering head by installing the Connie steering stem into the ZX lower triple, reducing the thickness of the ZX top triple, and installing a bushing into the ZX top triple to accommodate the smaller Connie stem. The C10 stem must be removed intact from the C10 bottom triple, and the ZX bottom triple modified to fit the C10 stem.
The ZX stem is left in the triple and used as a bushing for the C10 stem. The ZX stem is cut off above the top of the triple, and the ZX seal boss is machined off flush with the top of the triple. Once you have the stem out of the C10 triple, and you look at the features on the triple at the base of the stem that need to be replicated, it should be fairly clear what needs to be done, but I have a drawing that shows the dimensions for this, so PM me if you need it. The C10 stem is then pressed into the ZX triple.
The ZX top triple needs to be machined so that its thickness matches the thickness of the C10 top triple, and a bushing needs to be installed in the ZX triple for the smaller C10 stem.
The ZX top triple needs to be modified for mounting tubular handlebars, and to allow the C10 ignition switch/ lock housing to be installed.
You'll need to make a new steering stop, as well as trimming the top corners off the bottom triple to clear the fairing support. The ZX steering stop tabs will need to be trimmed slightly to clear the old C10 steering stop.
Once all the mods have been done to the triples and the Connie frame, the rest is a matter of installing the forks in the frame, as you would for the stock forks, including installing a new lower stem bearing, connecting brake hoses, etc.
Well, that should be enough to give you a good feel for the project, let me know if you need any more information.
Very nice once again Gary. THese are almost identical requirements that I had with mounting the ZX14 forks to mine except that my speedo drive required a lot of cutting down due to the big Ninja not having one nor space to put it. In any case, I really like your setup.
gfinca
Crotch Rocket
Thanks, Rev, that's a high compliment coming from you. It still amazes me how well this worked out. I can pretty much rail any turn at any speed I feel comfortable with, and transitions from one direction to another seem almost effortless, and I've never had any issues with stability. All I've done since the initial install is add some stiffer springs, and that has helped with the bottoming I was getting on big bumps. All in all, I'm extremely happy with this setup. :great:
~snark~ guffawGFinCA said:
Ha, I ain't nobody. You must have me confused with someone else. I've always liked your set-up and find it one of the best going. Definitely superior to mine. I really can;t understand why mine is as harsh as it is with the stock ZX springs. It's plumb firm. I like it, but I figured it would be softish on portly ol' Connie. I don't seem to have any stiction at all, so it's just kinda wierd to me. I think I have knocked a bit more play into the upper bushing around the stem too as I have a "tick" in it now. Maybe too many hard landings. But she's still going. Definitely much btter than stock. Another thing is, it's just a bit shorter than yours I think. I'd like it to be a half inch longer.
EDIT TO ADD: +1 on the fairing stay. Either reinforce or get Hogboy to teach you some new knots. :-[
gfinca
Crotch Rocket
That is kind of strange about the firmness, I would have thought it would have been a little bit undersprung, as well. Have you thought about having them revalved, or installing something like the Gold Valves yourself? A good suspension guy can do wonders. I know it's probably not high on your list of priorities, just something to consider.
As for the fork length, I've wondered whether it is possible to install the ZX14 tubes in later model ZX7 triples. The later ZX7 had 43 mm forks with a tube that narrows at the top, like the ZX14 tubes, and the ZX7 top triple looks like it is more straight across the top in comparison to the ZX14 triple. The difference in the top triple might give a little more effective length, and the ZX7 triples would give you a little more offset. I don't know whether the tubes are the same diameter or not, just thinking out loud.
As for the fork length, I've wondered whether it is possible to install the ZX14 tubes in later model ZX7 triples. The later ZX7 had 43 mm forks with a tube that narrows at the top, like the ZX14 tubes, and the ZX7 top triple looks like it is more straight across the top in comparison to the ZX14 triple. The difference in the top triple might give a little more effective length, and the ZX7 triples would give you a little more offset. I don't know whether the tubes are the same diameter or not, just thinking out loud.
I can't tell you the size of the tubes either, but a little more offset would be good and probably lighten up the handling a little. When you;re really flying, the stability is great, but in the tight stuff side to side transition could be faster and require a little less effort. It isn't bad, but it's not super easy. It IS solid feeling and when you're hot footing the twisties, the stiff action of really good, but the heavier steering isn't so great. Once you get her going down she'll go as far as you dare and she's content to stay there, but she's far from neutral. Straight line is hands off for a hundred miles. Her overall trail is about .4 longer than stock where yours is about the same amount less IIRC.
Well, I'll have to procure a new measuring device to get the other half, haven't seen a caliper around since making the last move. LOL Unless some C-14 guys wanted to go measure theirs. Anyways, thanks Gary for the measurement and input. I will be considering this.GFinCA said:I just measured the top of my tubes, and they're 52 mm. All the ZX7's with USD forks had the same top triple, AFAIK, so that's half the info
EDIT TO ADD: One more thing Gary, what about the spacing BETWEEN the fork tubes? I believe mine are closer together as there is no room for the speedo drive without machining. If the holes are further apart the it would require them being changed as a set for sure.
And Colin, I vote YES to Wiki Gary's conversion.
Judging by eBay pix of ZX7, ZX9, and ZX14 upper triples, and HOPING that the tubes are the same diameter, the 14 has maybe 1/8" LESS setback than the other two. That would be almost ideal to me, if it would work out. It'll be a while before I have time to even think about this as I have a ton of work (at work, at home, and on the bike) to do in order to take a couple thousand mile trip next week and THIS certainly ain't on the front burner. LOL I want to continue doing some checking though. Dang it Gary... you're messin' wit me now. Naughty boy!
gfinca
Crotch Rocket
I live to mess with you! > When you get around to thinking some more about this, let me know if you need any measurements. The only functional difference between the ZX7 triples and the ZX9 triples is the tube diameter of the tubes through the lower triple and the way the upper triple attaches to the stem. BTW, the ZX7 with the bigger forks were model year '96 to 2001.
When you get around to thinking some more about this, let me know if you need any measurements. The only functional difference between the ZX7 triples and the ZX9 triples is the tube diameter of the tubes through the lower triple and the way the upper triple attaches to the stem. BTW, the ZX7 with the bigger forks were model year '96 to 2001.
We ALL need purpose in our lives. Sorry you got stuck with me. :motonoises:GFinCA said:I live to mess with you! >
I may want/need more info about those items when I come back to this.
SHEESH! I get so confused... A to Z, 94 to 97, 96 to 2001, Bugs Bunny to Winx Club, Oilers to Titans, Chastity to Chaz... it's all just a bit too much for me.
Redbarron
Street Cruiser
:'(Well I have two options, considering that my front forks have already been raised to accomodate the 1.5" bar spacers.
That explains why the bike doesn,t lean much on the side stand :-[
I can a spend a small fortune $800.00 for a complete 97 zx9 front end plus all the fabrication cost?
Or see if I anyone sells a kit just for this issue, I mean they obviously sell the spacers which raise the bars and forks. So it would stand to reason that someone sells the springs, spacers and valving to corosponde.
Well time to go parts hunting.
Thank You
That explains why the bike doesn,t lean much on the side stand :-[
I can a spend a small fortune $800.00 for a complete 97 zx9 front end plus all the fabrication cost?
Or see if I anyone sells a kit just for this issue, I mean they obviously sell the spacers which raise the bars and forks. So it would stand to reason that someone sells the springs, spacers and valving to corosponde.
Well time to go parts hunting.
Thank You
So if you're wanting to stay with stock front end tubes and re-valve, I can offer this - cut 4-5" off the stock springs from the tightly would end. Cut equal length sc 40 pvc spacers. Get the racetech emulators. Use the blue springs with 2 turns preload. Drill holes in the blowoff plate for a total of 4 holes of the original sized hole (s) (some emulators only have one hole, some have 2). Use 15 wt fork oil. Raise the forks about 1/2" in the stock triple. A fork brace helps. This is how my front end is set up, and it feels at least as good to me at handling / bump absorption and control as a zrx conversion. i HAVE ridden the zx9 conversion, it was very nice and easy to ride fast, but part of that was because the front end was low and the rear of the bike was high on a c-14 shock with no lowering link.
As far as looking for "kits", well brother, the "kit" you've found is those of us COG members. If you don't find it here - whatever you're looking for - it probably doesn't exist. The knowledge of this motorcycle within the collective of GOG membership is simply unmatched. HTH, Steve
As far as looking for "kits", well brother, the "kit" you've found is those of us COG members. If you don't find it here - whatever you're looking for - it probably doesn't exist. The knowledge of this motorcycle within the collective of GOG membership is simply unmatched. HTH, Steve
Gee, this started out as a "More Power" thread and quickly turned into a "fork" thread. If it turns back into a more power thread I'll jump in.
JS said:
Your right, I didn't notice that. So I split the topic into two seperate threads. The original thread is in the Concours C10 / ZG1000 General Chat and Tech section, under the original title "More Power".
http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,29509.new.html
Redbarron
Street Cruiser
Hello Guys:
My appologeze for morphing the thread into a suspension issue.
Steve That's an interesting idea but, unfortunatly part of the issue is that the stock springs are just junk so I will be replacing them with stiffer springs.
I have never heard of or dealt with emmulators so I will have to do some research on them.
As far as raising the forks I cannot go any higher without getting extended hoses,cables and harnesses.
Thank You for you're input
My appologeze for morphing the thread into a suspension issue.
Steve That's an interesting idea but, unfortunatly part of the issue is that the stock springs are just junk so I will be replacing them with stiffer springs.
I have never heard of or dealt with emmulators so I will have to do some research on them.
As far as raising the forks I cannot go any higher without getting extended hoses,cables and harnesses.
Thank You for you're input
Redbarron said:
OK, you seem to have quite a handle on the whole thing. Good luck. Steve