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Starter button: "Click!" ... then, Nothing.

S

spacesuit6

Training Wheels
So. This has been happening after not riding the bike for a week or so. I'll turn the key to on, (neutral, clutch handle pulled) and hit the starter. I get a relay "click" but the bike does nothing. I release the starter, and the bike is just sitting there with the headlight on. Then I do this again -- starter, click, starter, click, starter, click and then on the 10th or 12th try, the starter fully engages and the bike roars to life. I've fully cleaned the battery connections (steel wool, sandpaper, wd-40) and everything's tight as a drum there. I've taken the battery (sealed-gel) off the bike and put it on the charger -- five minutes later, the charger switches off and shows a full charge. Any ideas on what the problem might be? Or is this normal? Any ideas where I should be troubleshooting next? As always -- thanks in advance! Best, Eric 2001 Kawasaki Concours 1983 Honda Interceptor 1981 Honda CM-400 Custom
 
Sounds like the J-box is on it's way out. Sounds like the click is the starter relay closing but a bod joint in the j-box is not sending power to the starter. Next time try hitting the j-box while holding the starter button on and see if it fires up. If it does you found the issue.
 
This happened to me on another bike & I thought my battery was going south. It was the starter motor. To check, next time it won't turn over right away, put the bike in gear & try "bumping" it, just push it forward or backward to turn the crank just a bit. Do this a time or two then go back to neutral & try starting again. If it starts ok, the starter motor either needs cleaning or replacing. Ron
 
Hmm -- starter motor. I wonder how common a starter motor failure is. I will certainly try this the next time I am out there and the problem presents itself. Also, as per the j-box problems, I am considering tossing a soldering iron into my tool kit. 2001 Kawasaki Concours <img src="http://www.goeres.com/images/Picture-9.jpg" align="left"> 1983 Honda Interceptor 1981 Honda CM-400 Custom
 
Actually -- quick question: Absent Guy Young's instructions for redoing a J-Box, does anyone else have any pictures or procedures or advice for rebuilding the J-Box? Is upgrading the relays particularly important, or is redoing the solder connections the main thing?
 
If it's the jBox you won't get any dash light, no neutral etc. Virginia Beach, VA COG 6517 03 Concours (9/11/04) 01 Concours (8/16/08) USN Retired
 
How old is the battery? The reason I ask is mine was doing the same thing and then one day it just died completely with only a slight hum coming from the starter relay when I pressed in the starter button. One quick call to Rich Reed and Voila! I had a spanky new bike! (kidding) The battery was shot due to plate separation. The battery will charge fine, but any movement could cause a broken plate to separate and ground out then nothing, nada, zip, zilch, nnnnyyyyyeeetttt. You could do a live "load test" on the battery with a load tester (bring the battery down to any autoparts store and they'll do it for free) and I bet the test will show the battery is failing. AKA "2linby" That's 2-lin-by folks! Northwest Area Director COG #5539 AMA #927779 IBA #15034 TEAM OREGON MC Instructor http://community.webshots.com/user/2linby http://tinyurl.com/njas8 (IBA BunBurner Gold Trip) http://tinyurl.com/lwelx (Alaska trip)
 
I'd also take a look and clean the switches at the side stand and clutch lever. My dirty side stand switch gave a similar symptom. Most times it just takes a squirt or two of wd-40.
 
Starter relay? Had same scenario on my Honda. I took the relay apart, burnished the burned contacts, and it worked until I could replace the relay. ..dz..
 
If the starter were as accessible as my Virago, I would have suggested taking a jumper cable from the battery to the starter and trying to bypass relays and such. I used to have to do that with the Virago to determine quickly where the starter problem was. The XV920s were notorious for eating starters. Do agree with 2linby on double checking the battery as well with a load test. Sometimes you also only get a surface charge which reflects a full charge, but doesn't have an amps behind it. Apply a load and the battery is drained. Let us know how it goes. Thanks and good luck.
 
Mine did that same thing first thing this spring, turned out to be the starter relay. Next time it does it, check the voltage going into the relay and check the voltage coming out to the starter when you hit the start button. Mine had no voltage making it through the relay when trying to start. You can also turn the key on and try jumping acros the relay with a screwdriver. Joe 1968 Honda 160 Scrambler, Sold / 1979 Kawasaki SR 650, Traded in for next one, 1978 Kawasaki KZ 1000 Z1R Turbo / 1986 Kawasaki ZX 1000R Ninja / 1999 Kawasaki Concours COG memb# 8645
 
ok guys, with what has been gone over none of it relenquishes thew OP's reported actual occurance...here's the lowdown on the problem, and the cure...I had this problem once. Disassemble the right hand side starter /grip body and remove it from the bike with a towel in place covering the area below and the fairing to prevent loosing parts. What you need to do is pull apart the starter Button itself, there is a spring, and a small hat shaped copper plunger in there that makes the contact when you press the button. It gots a corosian/oxide covering after many years, and removing it and cleaning it and the ends of the spring with 4oo grit sandpaper will return it to clean and operational. reassemble after spritzing it all with contact cleaner to remove the dust from the sanding, and you are good to go. By the way, this is also the cure for that other identical button that operates the horn, which fails in the exact same manner, and becomes intermittantly operational...fyi
 
Rich, the OP said that when he hits the starter he gets a relay click. Wouldn't that indicate that the starter button is working? When my Ninja had a problem with the starter button it did nothing, no click or anything else. Joe 1968 Honda 160 Scrambler, Sold / 1979 Kawasaki SR 650, Traded in for next one, 1978 Kawasaki KZ 1000 Z1R Turbo / 1986 Kawasaki ZX 1000R Ninja / 1999 Kawasaki Concours COG memb# 8645
 
Charge the battery then take it to Auto Zone or such and have them do a load test. If the battery is bad you know what to do.. You can also jump start using a car battery to see if your battery is going south. If your bike is long of tooth and high mileage or been setting or ridden in in-climate conditions it might be prudent to clean and apply dielectric grease to the mentioned connections. Check the positve and negative connections all the way to their ends to make sure the connections are clean and tight. If you suspect a starter relay try a voltage drop across from the battery connection to the starter side and see what you have.. A very low voltage means the starter needs repair or replaced.. Now's a time to pay attention to the safety switches with a clean and their connections attended to. Like MOB suggested if you suspect the starter button clean up the contacts and a light coating of WD-40 or dielectric grease will help.. I hope some of this helps. I forgot to add if the battery is suspect one might wonder why and turn to the charging system and give it a good check. Pull all connections, clean and a dab of dielectric grease to keep them from corroding. More advise if needed.
 
Hey Everyone -- Thanks for all the responses. The best thing about discussing a problem like this in an open forum is all the secondary things you pick up -- that the j-boxes are apt to go squirrely, that the battery connections are apt to oxidize, that the plates in gel batteries commonly fail, that a starter motor on its way out can sometimes be pressed back into service by "bumping" the bike. All good stuff. Just the kind of stuff that comes back to you when you're roadside trying to figure something else out. Anyway. I tossed a new battery into it last Wednesday night and rode away Thursday morning and did 300 miles in two legs (upstate NY to Central PA and back). On a trip like that you really only start the bike, what ... four times? Six times, what with gas and McD stops? Still, the difference between the dim lights and the "click" of the old battery and the bright lights and starter motor springing into action with the new battery lead me to believe: the whole problem was a battery on its way out. We'll see if time proves that diagnosis wrong, but I think it's going to be the real deal. Either way, because of all this, I know a whole hell of a lot more about my bike and the junction box, I am carrying a new electrical repair kit on the bike (with battery operated soldering iron!), all of my electrical connections are all cleaned, sanded, tightened and hit with a dose of WD-40. So really -- thanks for everyone's input. I really appreciate it. And just two quick side notes. The new battery went into the bike at 12.85 volts, the old one came out at just under 12.3 volts. Also. I replaced it with a Wal-Mart EverStart ES20LBS. Its a maintenance-free sealed vibration proof AGM battery, which is all fine. One weird thing for a sealed battery -- the acid comes in six little bottles and you have to dump in the acid, seal it up and then trickle charge the battery overnight. I thought that was really odd, but let me say: it was the easiest thing in the world to do and took about ten seconds. Paid about $70 for the battery. I would have much rather opted for an Odyssey, but they're not sold five minutes from my house 24/7. We'll see how it works out. Thanks again all! Eric
 
I'm the OP on this thread -- it's my 2001 Connie that's got the problem. I thought we had it fixed some weeks ago when I replaced the battery. But, sure enough, a week later -- there's that same old problem. To recap, its a starting problem: I turn the key (get full power), pull the clutch, hit the starter button: I get a big relay CLICK and then nothing. I do it a dozen or more times (start, click; start, click) and eventually the starter motor engages and starts the engine. Then I'm off. Typically, after that, it will do great restarting all day long. The next morning, same routine: click then nothing. There's been suggestions of cleaning the contacts in the starter switch, looking at the starter motor, etc. I thought it might be the battery -- I put in a new battery, and I still have the problem. And I cleaned the bejesus out of those contacts, too. So I am thinking of ordering up one of Larry's rebuilt Junction Boxes as a next step. It was identified as a probable culprit earlier in this thread, and at $65, its a roll of the dice that won't be so painful and will probably enhance the bike down the road anyway. And if it solves this problem, then good for me. What do you think? All the best, Eric
 
Well, if it doesn't fix the problem you still have a spare J-box. What is the voltage of the new battery now. I'm having an intermitent problem with mine too. With mine sometimes when I hit the starter I get absolutely nothing. In neutral If I "pump" the clutch the starter will eventualy engage and all is well. Sprayed some "stuff" into the bottom of the switch last Fri. and it seems to be working OK for now. I think it is time to take MLBs sugestion on the switch. COG # 8062 AMA # 1084053 ROMA or Scarlet harlot acording to my wife
 
More than likely it's the contacts inside the starter switch, or a dead spot on the starter motor's armature itself. I'd short across the starter solenoid terminals with a big screwdriver when it's in the "no start mode" to see if it's the starter itself.
 
If the starter relay clicks when you push the button, it's not the switch. I have opened the starter relay before and poured out water. They may be "sealed" but they're not impervious. If you jump across it and the bike cranks....replace or repair the relay. (It's the gold/silver can with the big wires going to it from the battery and starter.) Peel back the metal tabs holding the metal can to the phenolic/plastic guts, pull the guts out, clean/lube/replace/reassemble. Simple roadside repair it ain't since it's easier to jump the terminals with a screw driver to start the bike. But, it's a good parking lot when the day's done repair. My repair method: Dielectric grease on the plug terminals, file the relay contacts inside it to make them smooth, little dab of dielectric grease on the contacts (VERY TINY DAB!) Back together and rebend the tabs back. Oh, disconnect the main positive lead from the battery unless you like welding things with 12v. But you should already know that. http://millerized.com/pegs I'll be in the garage
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COG 6425, CDA 111 a through g
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Hey Eric... hopefully you (and other forum only subscribers) see the benefit of an organization like COG. I hope some consideration is given to becoming a member of the club. It is easy to upgrade by paying dues online. Use the Pay Membership Fee button on the bottom of the "My Info" from the Member Area menu. -- Steve Smith, COG #3184 COG Northeast Area Director (somewhere in south central CT)
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If you're not living on the edge, you're taking up too much space.
 
here i tx we have fire ants and they will build there nests anywhere on my 95 connie it was in the switch box on the handle bar.a ant had put him self in between the starter contacts just as i pushed the button and i killed it between the contacts .it took me a while to find the cause.no problem now
 
HEY, Jimmie, if I had a dipstick handy I'd whack ya one on the back of the legs....heheheheheh thinkin with yer dipstick jimmi....hehehehheheheheh I disagree about the starter click with the dirty contactor in the button. As I said I had this very problem, and my solution on cleaning it was the cure. The spring in there carries the current to the little "top hat shapred" plunger thingy, the sping is tiny, and has very little contact, which becomes a resistive connection after years. It doesn't cost anything to disassemble and scrape these parts of clean and shiney, seriously, it's got enough continuity to click the starter, but the arc re-establishes the resistive connection each time. try this pleeeeeeeze.
 
So, I finally got my Larry Buck rebuilt J-Box in the mail and put it on the bike. Installation was a breeze. And since then, no sign of this problem. Its only been a two or three dozen starts, but every time it has started up fine. I'm sure hopeful that this problem is gone. I'll check back in a few weeks and let everyone know. Fingers crossed.
 
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