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1999 C-10 cuts out when put into first.

J

jamesworful

Member
Member
Here is my dilemma.
When the bike is on the center stand with side stand up, it will shift to first perfect. If I put the side stand down and let out clutch, it cuts out ( I know side stand switch is working).
When bike is off center stand with side stand up, it cuts out as soon as I shift into first with clutch handle depressed. What the heck?!
 
Could be clutch switch or side stand switch.

Sounds like side stand switch.
Get a can of WD-40 {with the red straw} and wash the stand switch out thoroughly. This includes putting the straw inside of the rubber cover on the switch.
Then "exercise" the side stand and do it again.

Ride safe, Ted
 
connie_rider said:
Could be clutch switch or side stand switch.

Sounds like side stand switch.
Get a can of WD-40 {with the red straw} and wash the stand switch out thoroughly. This includes putting the straw inside of the rubber cover on the switch.
Then "exercise" the side stand and do it again.

Ride
Click to expand...
 
Just wd-40 the heck out of switch, then exercised the side stand. I did procedure five times then tried it. Same result.
 
in general, it is the electrical wires that touch the centre stand, normally they are attached with a plastic collar
 
Oui !

1684446616-s-l1600-2.jpg
 
Last edited:
I rerouted the wiring to the switch so nothing could be touching when off center stand . Still cuts out when put into first.
 
So maybe it will help if I fill you in on the back story. It worked a couple weeks ago when I brought it out of the barn to do my maintenance.
Here’s what I did:
1: New tires
2: rebuilt front brake calipers
3: new brake fluid
4: changed oil and oil filter
At this point I put everything back together, turned it on, dropped it in first and it cut out.
Then I cleaned out clutch master cylinder, flushed the lines and still same issue.
 
If you have problems and you want to neutralize the side stand protection systems and the clutch contactor, you must unclip the lug of the black green line wire that fits into the fuse box and connect this wire to a ground.
This wire goes to the CDI to control the closing or opening of the ignition circuit in case of unfolded lateral support.
 
I don’t understand, there is a problem with the center crutch on the immobilizer when there is no relationship and we are talking about issues of clutch receiver binding, no really I am not at all :unsure:
 
ferabern143 said:
If you have problems and you want to neutralize the side stand protection systems and the clutch contactor, you must unclip the lug of the black green line wire that fits into the fuse box and connect this wire to a ground.
This wire goes to the CDI to control the closing or opening of the ignition circuit in case of unfolded lateral support.
Click to expand...
Disregard the slave cylinder post. Thinking you should follow Bernard's suggestion. Don't know what I was thinking.
 
ferabern143 said:
I don’t understand, there is a problem with the center crutch on the immobilizer when there is no relationship and we are talking about issues of clutch receiver binding, no really I am not at all :unsure:
Click to expand...
I am not really understanding what you are telling me. I am not that familiar with the mechanics
 
ferabern143 said:
I don’t understand, there is a problem with the center crutch on the immobilizer when there is no relationship and we are talking about issues of clutch receiver binding, no really I am not at all :unsure:
Click to expand...
Could you break it down a little simpler. I’m not really understanding what I should do?
 
So long the clutch lever pulls to the handle then, the absence or presence of corrosion in the slave cylinder will not be related to the problem you are trying to solve.

Does the bike crank/start in gear with the clutch lever pulled in?
 
brooke.benfield said:
So long the clutch lever pulls to the handle then, the absence or presence of corrosion in the slave cylinder will not be related to the problem you are trying to solve.

Does the bike crank/start in gear with the clutch lever pulled in?
Click to expand...
Yes. But, the ……how do I say this?
The bike takes off as if the clutch was released.
 
brooke.benfield said:
So long the clutch lever pulls to the handle then, the absence or presence of corrosion in the slave cylinder will not be related to the problem you are trying to solve.

Does the bike crank/start in gear with the clutch lever pulled in?
Click to expand...
Yes. But the bike takes off as if the clutch was depressed.
 
So to be clear, with the bike in gear, and the clutch lever pulled in, cranking her over the bike is lurching forward as it cranks? If that's the case the clutch isn't releasing and would explain why it dies when u start it in neutral, and it dies when u try an put it in gear..
 
jamesworful said:
Why does the side stand switch work when on center stand but not when off stand?
Click to expand...
This is where I have trouble following, the safety switch on the side stand works when the bike is on the centre stand but does not work when the centre stand is folded up... right?
 
ferabern143 said:
This is where I have trouble following, the safety switch on the side stand works when the bike is on the centre stand but does not work when the centre stand is folded up... right?
Click to expand...
Well I don’t know if it the side stand switch not working when off center stand or something else. But when I started it with clutch pulled in and bike in gear, it cranked and started to go as if I had released the clutch. But I didn’t.
If I start the bike when in neutral , it cuts out when I put it in gear.
 
Konehead34 said:
So to be clear, with the bike in gear, and the clutch lever pulled in, cranking her over the bike is lurching forward as it cranks? If that's the case the clutch isn't releasing and would explain why it dies when u start it in neutral, and it dies when u try an put it in gear..
Click to expand...
It starts just fine when I start it in neutral. It dies as soon as I put it in gear
 
** Well I don’t know if it the side stand switch not working when off center stand or something else. But when I started it with clutch pulled in and bike in gear, it cranked and started to go as if I had released the clutch. But I didn’t.
If I start the bike when in neutral , it cuts out when I put it in gear.
** It starts just fine when I start it in neutral. It dies as soon as I put it in gear

James, we're trying to help, but we're confused with your explanation about the bike dying.
Previously I missed the part it cranked and started to go as if I had released the clutch. But I didn’t.
So, I/Ferabern was trying to find a repair using electronic issues.
Previously I missed the part it cranked and started to go as if I had released the clutch. But I didn’t.
That sounds like a mechanical issue.
Bud/Brooke was trying to fix it as a mechanical/clutch issue.
What we don't understand is how it is dying? (Electrical or Mechanical)
ie;
1) (electrical) Is it dying like someone turned off a switch. Bike dies suddenly (as soon as you put it in gear) without the bike turning the wheel or lurching..
2) (mechanical) Is it dying like the clutch is engaged? The bike lurching forward?
 
Now it does sound as if the slave cylinder is sticking . Easy to clean and replace the seal . If the bike has been sitting a long time chances are the Slave needs servicing anyway . I think there is a good how to writeup in the tech pages here .
 
Cra-z1000 said:
Now it does sound as if the slave cylinder is sticking . Easy to clean and replace the seal . If the bike has been sitting a long time chances are the Slave needs servicing anyway . I think there is a good how to writeup in the tech pages here .
Click to expand...
connie_rider said:
** Well I don’t know if it the side stand switch not working when off center stand or something else. But when I started it with clutch pulled in and bike in gear, it cranked and started to go as if I had released the clutch. But I didn’t.
If I start the bike when in neutral , it cuts out when I put it in gear.
** It starts just fine when I start it in neutral. It dies as soon as I put it in gear

James, we're trying to help, but we're confused with your explanation about the bike dying.
Previously I missed the part it cranked and started to go as if I had released the clutch. But I didn’t.
So, I/Ferabern was trying to find a repair using electronic issues.
Previously I missed the part it cranked and started to go as if I had released the clutch. But I didn’t.
That sounds like a mechanical issue.
Bud/Brooke was trying to fix it as a mechanical/clutch issue.
What we don't understand is how it is dying? (Electrical or Mechanical)
ie;
1) (electrical) Is it dying like someone turned off a switch. Bike dies suddenly (as soon as you put it in gear) without the bike turning the wheel or lurching..
2) (mechanical) Is it dying like the clutch is engaged? The bike lurching forward?
Click to expand...
The bike is lurching forward.
 
Is it possible the clutch plates are sticking together? Put it in gear and rock it forwards and backwards, without the engine running of course. Then try it again and see what happens. Throwing this out there because it's cheap, easy and quick. Did you ride the bike before the oil change or did you push it out of the barn without starting and riding?
 
jamesworful said:
The bike is lurching forward.
Click to expand...
Ahh. That info helps. It's mechanical. NOT electrical.

Most of us were thinking of it as electrical.

The most likely is the slave cylinder needs to be rebuilt.
1st step is drain/flush the clutch fluid.
\If that doesn't work, take it apart, lightly sand the metal cylinder and put it back together.

Another possibility (as Bud mentioned) is stuck clutch plates.
If stuck, ride it with the clutch lever pulled in and jab the brakes. Stuck plates will unstick eventually.

If those 2 things don't do it, you'll have to go into the clutch.
Could be a broken star spring, but those normally make a clutch slip.
 
connie_rider said:
Ahh. That info helps. It's mechanical. NOT electrical.

Most of us were thinking of it as electrical.

The most likely is the slave cylinder needs to be rebuilt.
1st step is drain/flush the clutch fluid.
\If that doesn't work, take it apart, lightly sand the metal cylinder and put it back together.

Another possibility (as Bud mentioned) is stuck clutch plates.
If stuck, ride it with the clutch lever pulled in and jab the brakes. Stuck plates will unstick eventually.

If those 2 things don't do it, you'll have to go into the clutch.
Could be a broken star spring, but those normally make a clutch slip.
Click to expand...
Thank you everyone.
I will be tackling the slave cylinder shortly. Will let you know what happens.🤞
 
jamesworful said:
Thank you everyone.
I will be tackling the slave cylinder shortly. Will let you know what happens.🤞
Click to expand...
I disassembled the slave cylinder, it was pretty nasty. I cleaned it spotless, spring moved much easier. Refilled master cylinder and bled lines.
Same results.
 
connie_rider said:
Arghhh!
How long has the bike been setting?
Did you try riding with the clutch lever pulled?
Click to expand...
It’s been sitting for 2 years. Can’t really ride it. I don’t have room in my barn. And due to the ridiculous amount of rain we’ve had here, there is a moat around my barn.
 
2 years? Plates are probably rusted together.
poor girl is gonna need some love. As bud said she needs some rock and rolling...lol
 
If the clutch plates are locked up. Put it on the center stand. Start it and put in 1st gear. Pull in the clutch lever then apply the rear brake. If it wants to stall let off the brake. Repeat until the clutch plates brake free.
 
Jpd11958 said:
If the clutch plates are locked up. Put it on the center stand. Start it and put in 1st gear. Pull in the clutch lever then apply the rear brake. If it wants to stall let off the brake. Repeat until the clutch plates brake free.
Click to expand...
Hey! Thanks for the tip!
Everyone on here is great! Without all your help I would just be buying parts hoping for the best.
Hopefully when I get her running I can join in on some of the group rides.
 
Yupp, probably stuck clutch plates.
I agree with Jpd.
On the stand/ In gear / clutch in / slightly elevated RPM's / try to break the plates loose by jabbing the brake while rolling, or increase braking as you add throttle and let the Hp work for you.

Be aware that if it comes off the stand "it would not be good". So, take precautions.

Ride safe, Ted
 
connie_rider said:
Yupp, probably stuck clutch plates.
I agree with Jpd.
On the stand/ In gear / clutch in / slightly elevated RPM's / try to break the plates loose by jabbing the brake while rolling, or increase braking as you add throttle and let the Hp work for you.

Be aware that if it comes off the stand "it would not be good". So, take precautions.

Ride safe, Ted
Click to expand...
I’ve been at it for 1/2 hour. No luck. I’m worried I’m doing damage?
 
I don't think your hurting anything.
Couple of thoughts.

What I think will break them loose is jabbing the brake, not continuous braking.

If you've been doing it for an hour your brake disc may be VERY hot.
Let it cool periodically.

Otherwise, you're not doing much different than a bike riding down the road.
The difference is, (doing it on the stand) you don't have the weight of the bike helping you break them discs loose.

You may have to open the clutch to get this resolved.

Ride safe, Ted
 
connie_rider said:
I don't think your hurting anything.
Couple of thoughts.

What I think will break them loose is jabbing the brake, not continuous braking.

If you've been doing it for an hour your brake disc may be VERY hot.
Let it cool periodically.

Otherwise, you're not doing much different than a bike riding down the road.
The difference is, (doing it on the stand) you don't have the weight of the bike helping you break them discs loose.

You may have to open the clutch to get this resolved.

Ride safe, Ted
Click to expand...
Thanks Ted
 
Do it on the side stand to reduce the oil loss when you open it up. Can't remember if any comes out when on the side stand or not.
 
You'll lose a tiny bit of oil on the sidestand . While you're in there check the star springs for breaks and do the update if it's not already done .
 
Could it be the clutch isn't bled properly? I always have trouble getting all the air out. Have to use Mighty Vac.
 
chuckster said:
Could it be the clutch isn't bled properly? I always have trouble getting all the air out. Have to use Mighty Vac.
Click to expand...
I'd think once he has it open, he can pull in the clutch lever and see what's happening in regards to that.
 
No special tools needed if you don't pull the main nut and star spring.
When you remove/replace the plates have a manual and pay attention to the order and location of the plates. Not a big issue if you pay attention.

If you opt to go deeper and remove the nut etc, you will need something to keep the clutch from turning, a special socket, and prolly an impact wrench.

Ride safe, Ted
 
connie_rider said:
No special tools needed if you don't pull the main nut and star spring.
When you remove/replace the plates have a manual and pay attention to the order and location of the plates. Not a big issue if you pay attention.

If you opt to go deeper and remove the nut etc, you will need something to keep the clutch from turning, a special socket, and prolly an impact wrench.

Ride safe, Ted
Click to expand...
👍
 
jamesworful said:
I pulled all the plates
Click to expand...
Why don't you post pictures of your fibers in your steels if you don't know how to tell a bad clutch. Then you're going to clean everything up (inside the case too) and you're going to reassemble everything with the cover off and you're going to watch the slave cylinder expand the clutch plates and the steels. You know watch it work
 
I want to thank everyone for their advice. Very helpful. I don’t know if I’ve explained my lack of mechanical knowledge or not. But, I am new to all this ( which is why I am here seeking help). I appreciate it if you could break this down in very simple terms for me. I have no idea what the fibers in the steels refers to. Or watch the slave cylinder expand the clutch plates and steels. Any and all advice is welcome, all I ask is that you explain it to me like you would a 2 year old. Lol
Thanks again !
 
James, I don't see a location attached to your profile. Forgive me for saying this, but I get the feeling that your not very mechanically inclined. Particularly when it comes to motorcycles and its drive train.

The reason I ask where your located, is ur in serious need of some help, and maybe there's someone nearby that can provide that. I know it's difficult to find someone to work on bikes of this age, and that's probably a motivating element to why you've undertaken the challenge of getting her back on the road.
 
FYI, the clutch plates alternates fiber then steel, fiber then steel, so on. Steels are just steel plates, the fibers are covered in kevlar and organic compounds like brake pads. The slave cylinder expands and pushes on the clutch springs releasing the friction between the motor and transmission.

Yours isn't releasing. This is a fairly simple system so your possibilities are

-clutch master cylinder isn't producing enough fluid pressure to move that slave cylinder (rebuild the master, super easy)

- air bubbles compressing in the line, using the pressure to compress the bubbles instead of moving the slave cylinder

-leaking slave cylinder leaks the pressure out instead of using it to move the slave cylinder

-if you've gotten it torn apart you don't have to worry about the plates sticking together. That's just a rip it apart clean and reassemble everything.
 
nomoreusmc6802 said:
FYI, the clutch plates alternates fiber then steel, fiber then steel, so on. Steels are just steel plates, the fibers are covered in kevlar and organic compounds like brake pads. The slave cylinder expands and pushes on the clutch springs releasing the friction between the motor and transmission.

Yours isn't releasing. This is a fairly simple system so your possibilities are

-clutch master cylinder isn't producing enough fluid pressure to move that slave cylinder (rebuild the master, super easy)

- air bubbles compressing in the line, using the pressure to compress the bubbles instead of moving the slave cylinder

-leaking slave cylinder leaks the pressure out instead of using it to move the slave cylinder

-if you've gotten it torn apart you don't have to worry about the plates sticking together. That's just a rip it apart clean and reassemble everything.
Click to expand...
Thanks! That makes perfect sense. Do you still need pictures of the fibers? All plates came out easily and individually, and well lubricated.
 
If you don't already have one, get yourself a factory service manual or a Clymer service manual. They have pictures and procedures outlined for any and everything on your bike. They are available on eBay and/or Amazon for short money and are really a necessity for someone trying to revive an older motorcycle with limited mechanical abilities.
 
All plates came out easily and individually, and well lubricated.

Arghhh...

Ok, assuming you haven't put the side cover back on; Re-assemble the clutch and operate the clutch lever.
You should see the clutch cover move in and out as you operate the clutch lever..
Additionally (with the rear wheel off the ground/bike in gear) see if you can rotate the rear wheel, then pull in the clutch lever and do the same.
Wheel should rotate with clutch pulled.
 
You might want to remove the clutch lever and see if the brass bits in it and/or the lever bolt is worn. If they show significant wear, you'll have trouble pushing enough fluid into the slave cylinder to actually disengage the clutch. These parts need regular cleaning/greasing to prevent wear.

In the year 2001 parts fiche:

Brass Bushing = 92028
Lever Bolt = 92002

You say that you rebuilt the front brake calipers. It's not that easy to get all the air out of the hydraulic system so as others have mentioned, you may just need to properly bleed the brakes. There are lots of threads here about how to do that and how to get the last few stubborn air bubbles out.
 
Sorry for the delay in response. I’ve been working on the road. So here is what I’ve done.
Measured all the friction plates, steel plates, and springs (all measurements were taken at different locations around the circumference). Here are the results:
Friction plates: 2.99 mm
Steel plates: 2.19 mm every plate measures the same.
Springs: 32.38, 32.22, 32.31, 32.32, 32.26, 32.21 mm.
Connie Rider, should I put the plates back in before I pull the clutch lever and watch for movement? I have done that without the plates in place and I do not see any movement.
Brooke.benfield, thank you. I will get into that today. Do I need to drain the fluid first?
 
jamesworful said:
Friction plates: 2.99 mm
Steel plates: 2.19 mm every plate measures the same.
Springs: 32.38, 32.22, 32.31, 32.32, 32.26, 32.21 mm.
Click to expand...
Plates are ok. Springs a bit short, but usable.
jamesworful said:
Connie Rider, should I put the plates back in before I pull the clutch lever and watch for movement? I have done that without the plates in place and I do not see any movement.
Click to expand...
I think we've found the issue. (No movement)
But we need to check to know why.
So, yes you "may" need to reassemble the clutch with plates so that you have proper stack height and re-check movement.

Before you do that.
Remove the springs and spring plate.
This will uncover a hole in the center of the shaft.
Use a screwdriver or other small rod that will fit into the hole and touch the shaft inside.
Prolly 1/8" dia x 4-5" long.
Push against that shaft and operate the clutch. You should feel clutch movement.
If you do; re-assemble the plates etc and do the test again.
If you do not; the issue is somewhere between the clutch lever and the end of that rod.
May be the bushing/bolt that Brooke mentioned, or issues with hydraulics.

One thing you have never said, is does the clutch lever feel like its operating correctly?
ie; moves against tension.
 
connie_rider said:
Plates are ok. Springs a bit short, but usable.

I think we've found the issue. (No movement)
But we need to check to know why.
So, yes you "may" need to reassemble the clutch with plates so that you have proper stack height and re-check movement.

Before you do that.
Remove the springs and spring plate.
This will uncover a hole in the center of the shaft.
Use a screwdriver or other small rod that will fit into the hole and touch the shaft inside.
Prolly 1/8" dia x 4-5" long.
Push against that shaft and operate the clutch. You should feel clutch movement.
If you do; re-assemble the plates etc and do the test again.
If you do not; the issue is somewhere between the clutch lever and the end of that rod.
May be the bushing/bolt that Brooke mentioned, or issues with hydraulics.

One thing you have never said, is does the clutch lever feel like its operating correctly?
ie; moves against tension.
Click to expand...
Yes. The clutch lever feels as if it is operating correctly. I did not mention that I did NOT do rebuild of the slave cylinder. I just took it apart and cleaned it up real good. As I am not the original owner, but I do know the original owner, my guess is that all the parts are original to the bike. So that being said. I know cleaning is probably not as good as replacing.
 
Ok, do the movement tests.
To be sure the clutch was assembled correctly, ask the previous owner if anyone has ever been inside the clutch.
If the clutch was working when the bike was parked, most likely is stuck plates or hydraulic issues.
The answer is staring at us. Just not answering your questions correctly.

If you have movement during the tests, it's probable that you fixed the issue when you pulled the plates out.
 
Okay. Hopefully I can say this in a way that makes sense. When I inserted the screwdriver into the hole and pull the lever, there isn’t any movement. I have to push the rod back in with the screwdriver. The distance the rod moves is approximately 13.56 mm. With the rod pushed in, I pulled the lever and the rod moves towards me 1.76mm per pull. But when I release the lever the rod does not go back into the shaft. It keeps pushing towards me until it has traveled the 13.56 mm. I have to manually push the rod back in but even without pulling the lever it will start traveling towards me. I am attaching pictures. The green line closest to the handle is the depth of the rod before I push it in. Each green hash mark going towards the other end of the screwdriver is how far the rod moves with each pull of the lever. I hope this makes sense.
 

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The last hash mark closest to the business end of the screwdriver is how far it pushes in before I start pulling the lever.
 
Normally, the springs in the clutch are what pushes the rod back. So pushing it back is expected.
The question is, does it take a lot of force to push it back?
It should move fairly easily, but a bit of force may be needed.

If it's very hard to push back, we'll have to troubleshoot why.

NOTE: You should hold the screwdriver against it firmly when it's back in place.
The reason it's moving back when you ease the screwdriver "may be" because you may be pushing the slave cylinder back more than it usually travels.
ie; The spring plate and pusher rod only go in X amount when the clutch is released. So, your prolly using only a portion of the available slave cylinder travel in normal use.
1.76 mm of travel in 1 pull should be e'nuff to release the plates.
But it should move back after you release the lever.
If not, the vent hole in the master cylinder may be blocked.

Next. Install the clutch plates, spring, and spring plate. Then test for movement again.
 
Last edited:
jamesworful said:
Brooke.benfield, thank you. I will get into that today. Do I need to drain the fluid first?
Click to expand...
No need to drain the fluid.

If your clutch is properly bled, all reassembled, and the lever/bushings/etc. I mentioned earlier are not worn, there should be almost zero clutch lever movement before feeling the pushback from the clutch springs (Ok, maybe 1/8"). Normally when taking off in first gear the clutch should not be engaging until the lever is mostly (2/3 or so) released.
 
Ted, he said he's only getting 1.76 Millimeters of movement per squeeze, not 1.76 inches. I think we're all on the right track in that the hydraulics aren't pushing far enough...

Rebuild the slave and re-bleed it...
 
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Konehead34 said:
Ted, he said he's only getting 1.76 Millimeters of movement per squeeze, not 1.76 inches. I think we're all on the right track in that the hydraulics aren't pushing far enough...

Rebuild the slave and re-bleed it...
Click to expand...
Yea, that was a typo. Meant to type 1.75 mm.
1.75 mm should be e'nuff to release the clutch. (Look at the gap in his calipers)
ie; As soon as the spring plate lifts off of the plates, there is no pressure on the plates and the clutch becomes free.
 
Thank you gentlemen.
Am I correct if I order the following?
Slave cylinder rebuild kit.
Cover gasket
Clutch lever bushing
 
The only other thing that you might order is a Master Cylinder rebuild kit.
But,,, you may have already fixed the problem when you took the clutch apart and cleaned it.
Best to re-assemble clutch, do a good clutch fluid bleed, and check for movement.
 
Is there a reputable online store where I can find everything I’m looking for at the same place? Or is it best to order from bike shop?
 
Last question before I start ordering parts. Is it necessary to use gasket sealant as well as the gasket on the clutch cover?
Also, on a side note. Going to put plates, and springs back in in a few minutes. Will update everyone on the amount of movement when it’s together and I pull the clutch lever.
 
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