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A Neurologist's View

2

2andblue

COG Executive Director
Member
I thought I would share a shocking conversation I had over the weekend. Please take every chance you get to educate and bring awareness; if not to get others to experience the sport rather a reminder that there are motorcyclists out there and to be aware of them.

A high school student (family member) shared with me what a trauma neurologist told them on an ER field trip regarding motorcycling... Trauma Neurologist Viewpoint, "There are only two types of motorcyclists:

1) The one that has visited us
2) The one who will visit us"

I shared with my family member that with application of proper and repetitive training, advances in rider equipment and discipline to wear your gear all the time can go a long way to adding a third type of motorcyclists: The POPE -

3) The Prepared, Observant, Protected, Educated motorcyclist is less likely to visit the ER.

As my family and I chatted we hit upon several other misnomers that were discussed the very same field-trip day:
  • In town riding is safer than the highway - totally false
    • There are significantly more variables in town than on the highway, cross streets, driveways, controlled intersections, curbs, oncoming traffic, signs galore, pets, etc.
  • Only need a helmet when on the highway - totally false
    • See other bullets here...
  • Helmet don't save lives or improve outcomes - totally false
    • Accident data has proven most accidents are at a low speed, in town, or at an intersection and the helmet will protect your squash
  • Laying down the motorcycle before a collision slows you down quicker and prevents direct collision with fixed object, car, animal - totally false
    • You can stop much faster with rubber than metal or pants sliding across the ground
    • You can't emergency evade an object if the bike is laying down
    • If you are on the ground sliding toward an object you have ZERO control, guard rails, poles, signs are going to shred you to pieces
I am certain the Trauma Neurologist believes they were preventing someone from coming to the ER with this line of thought - however - I believe this very same line of thinking also puts the motorcyclists in the community in more danger. Let me explain that last comment: By dismissing motorcycling / motorcyclists as doomed for the ER there is no emphasis on how you as a driver (motorcyclist and more importantly non-motorcyclist) can prevent the accident from happening in the first place.

So... Wear the gear all the time, stay observant everywhere you go, in town or even rural roads - more dangerous, training. I am due for another course, it's been several years.

Wayne, Carol & Blue
 
I'd love to have a friendly discussion with the Neurologist.

It took me about 30 days to come up with what I really think happened on June 8th. Short story, I went off the road at 70+ mph accelerating out of a curve. (I got distracted. My fault.) The bike was totaled. I must've hit my head because my helmet had some scratches on it and a large dead spot. But...I didn't have a concussion, even if I was a bit confused.

My airbag vest had about a 4 inch rupture from where I hit. I had no broken ribs or cracked ribs. The ER doc said he's normally sewing rider's livers back together. I had no internal injuries.

My boots were scuffed and dirty. My riding jacket had a couple places where the material didn't look perfect. The pants showed no damage. Everything was simply dirty. After washing it all, you can't tell anything happened.

I was released from the ER with no findings of anything wrong with me except for a couple bruises. No pain meds. Nothing. It's a shame that neurologist wasn't on duty when I came in.

I'm convinced that God sent angels to protect me. And I'm also convinced in the benefits of good gear. That AGV said their Sportmodular helmet was made to the same standards as the AGV Pista, their racing helmet. Would a $200 helmet have done as good a job? I don't want to find out. An airbag vest might make me hot. I'll take hot over the pain of broken or cracked ribs any day. Or a broken back.

_________________________

I hear that phrase "I laid it down". Or "he laid it down". As I told the local sheriff in South Dakota who was blocking traffic while they took care of a motorcycle accident...If he had enough skill and control to "lay it down", then he had enough skill and control to avoid the accident in the first place. No one "lays it down". They lost control. Own up to it.

Chris
 
Agree 100% with both.
Mine was my fault: unfamiliar roads, got cocky, decreasing radius turn hidden by trees in center.
Fully geared. Only my left boot didn't have evidence of having protected me; including large & heavy scrapes on the helmet.
I did sustain shoulder ligament damage requiring repair, but without gear...I don't want to think about it.
On a very rare occasion I may not wear my riding pants, VERY rare. I will never wear anything less than a modular.
 
ATGATT philosophy has been the best thing I’ve learned in COG. I was going out for a. ”neighborhood “ ride this week and briefly considered minimal gear, then went “Nope, ain’t happening.”
 
This was the last data I read


Lots of little tidbits throughout the article, I found this one interesting

A study of motorcycle drivers involved in fatal crashes per 10,000 registered vehicles from 2003 to 2019 found that motorcycles with anti-lock braking systems were associated with a 22% reduction in motorcycle crash fatalities. Not exactly sure how you could verify that , but given the number of "get offs" I've seen/heard of from locking up rear brakes it wouldn't surprise me.
 
Murph said:
This was the last data I read


Lots of little tidbits throughout the article, I found this one interesting

A study of motorcycle drivers involved in fatal crashes per 10,000 registered vehicles from 2003 to 2019 found that motorcycles with anti-lock braking systems were associated with a 22% reduction in motorcycle crash fatalities. Not exactly sure how you could verify that , but given the number of "get offs" I've seen/heard of from locking up rear brakes it wouldn't surprise me.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't surprise me either. Based on my 24 years instructing experienced riders, I have observed many with below par braking skills. I feel ABS is a good feature to have if things go sideways, but it is not a replacement for good braking skill. There are those that use it as a crutch to support sub par skills. A fellow instructor who has been at it longer than me has been known to say, ABS = Absence of Braking Skills.

The misconceptions this trauma doctor has is not unique in the non-riding community. The scary thing is that some of the misinformation presented in this thread is held as truth by some riders. I have heard it from ERC/BRC students who are in the course to get licensed after decades of riding.. The ones that stand out in my memory now are...
"Never use the front brake... you will go over the bars"
"I don't plan to wear a helmet after this class... I'll hold my head up if I fall"
"A [insert bike of choice] couldn't make a u-turn like that"
"I could never pass the test on my bike"
"I'm a good rider, but there is no way I would be able to pass the DMV test on my bike"
 
Murph said:
This was the last data I read


Lots of little tidbits throughout the article, I found this one interesting

A study of motorcycle drivers involved in fatal crashes per 10,000 registered vehicles from 2003 to 2019 found that motorcycles with anti-lock braking systems were associated with a 22% reduction in motorcycle crash fatalities. Not exactly sure how you could verify that , but given the number of "get offs" I've seen/heard of from locking up rear brakes it wouldn't surprise me.
Click to expand...
Good intel / historical information Murph!

A little surprised to see how the wearing of a helmet is only as 37% effective in preventing crash fatalities among motorcycle drivers and 41% effective in preventing crash fatalities among motorcycle passengers.

I will not forego my 37% but would have excepted that to be a lot higher. I mean let’s face it - striking an immovable object (pole, sign post, traffic containment barriers, parked or moving vehicle) our bodies do not absorb this well and regardless if helmet is worn a sudden deceleration leads to tremendous internal trauma.

So bringing it back to the top, let us all be POPE riders!

Wayne, Carol & Blue
 

Primary motorcycle crash factors, according to motorcyclists​


This section was evidently "self reported", which historically means it may be more opinion than fact.
 
Helmets don't just have effect at speed.
A friend's sister lost her fiancée in a parking lot, at very slow speed.
He hit a patch of sand/dust, wheel slipped out and he hit the curb. He was going slowly at the time and the impact was pretty much vertical as he explained it to me.
Irene was rear-ended several years ago turning into a parking lot. She was going about 15 MPH. Bike sustained minor damage, Jacket, gloves, etc. were scuffed a little. Only later did we notice the scrape on the very rear of her helmet; she didn't even realize her head had "bounced" off the pavement. Without the helmet the story would've been very different.
 
That was my helmet after the 70 mph crash.

1733287014379.png

I don't remember hitting my head. The dash cam records at 30 frames per second and only recorded four frames. Just four. The thought of "I don't need a helmet. I'll just hold my head up", isn't even ludicrous. It's so far beyond that...

I had two major impacts. The head and the back. I can't imagine the forces involved. The airbag vest didn't just deflate slowly as it normally does. It was destroyed. That whole scuffed up area on the helmet is crushed inside. You can't see it, but there was no doubt in my mind when I tapped on it.

And yet I had no concussion. No aches and pains afterward. The gear did the job. At 70-75 mph. I hadn't had time to hit the brakes.

Anyone who doesn't think they need good gear or a helmet...needs to fill out an organ donor card before riding.
 
Safety discussions frequently focus on gear and how it protects after the accident has begun. Any thoughts on David Hough's focus in regards to safety?
 
His writing is pretty much on riding techniques which is a given, to me anyway. At the end of the day the safety on a motorcycle just isn't there compared to other forms of highway transportation. Its just a fact. You are a small profile, often times not being looked for, and are on the losing end of physics if you hit a Ram 1500, no matter how much gear you have on. Its a personal risk versus reward decision.
 
Merle Lowe said:
Safety discussions frequently focus on gear and how it protects after the accident has begun. Any thoughts on David Hough's focus in regards to safety?
Click to expand...
I agree, as noted above we have to practice: POPE..

Prepared, Observant, Protected, Educated

It’s only when the whole system is functioning that you can be as safe as you can be.

Gear alone will not fix dumb or ill-informed decisions.

Wayne, Carol & Blue
 
2andblue said:
I thought I would share a shocking conversation I had over the weekend. Please take every chance you get to educate and bring awareness; if not to get others to experience the sport rather a reminder that there are motorcyclists out there and to be aware of them.

A high school student (family member) shared with me what a trauma neurologist told them on an ER field trip regarding motorcycling... Trauma Neurologist Viewpoint, "There are only two types of motorcyclists:

1) The one that has visited us
2) The one who will visit us"

I shared with my family member that with application of proper and repetitive training, advances in rider equipment and discipline to wear your gear all the time can go a long way to adding a third type of motorcyclists: The POPE -

3) The Prepared, Observant, Protected, Educated motorcyclist is less likely to visit the ER.

As my family and I chatted we hit upon several other misnomers that were discussed the very same field-trip day:
  • In town riding is safer than the highway - totally false
    • There are significantly more variables in town than on the highway, cross streets, driveways, controlled intersections, curbs, oncoming traffic, signs galore, pets, etc.
  • Only need a helmet when on the highway - totally false
    • See other bullets here...
  • Helmet don't save lives or improve outcomes - totally false
    • Accident data has proven most accidents are at a low speed, in town, or at an intersection and the helmet will protect your squash
  • Laying down the motorcycle before a collision slows you down quicker and prevents direct collision with fixed object, car, animal - totally false
    • You can stop much faster with rubber than metal or pants sliding across the ground
    • You can't emergency evade an object if the bike is laying down
    • If you are on the ground sliding toward an object you have ZERO control, guard rails, poles, signs are going to shred you to pieces
I am certain the Trauma Neurologist believes they were preventing someone from coming to the ER with this line of thought - however - I believe this very same line of thinking also puts the motorcyclists in the community in more danger. Let me explain that last comment: By dismissing motorcycling / motorcyclists as doomed for the ER there is no emphasis on how you as a driver (motorcyclist and more importantly non-motorcyclist) can prevent the accident from happening in the first place.

So... Wear the gear all the time, stay observant everywhere you go, in town or even rural roads - more dangerous, training. I am due for another course, it's been several years.

Wayne, Carol & Blue
Click to expand...
Excellent points! I took the Yamaha Champions School Champ U series on video last year as I was flying to Japan. It is an excellent refresher course and the street survival add on was good as well.

Rob from Michigan
 
I mention David Hough because he took a different approach to his work. After the Hurt report there was a lot of emphasis on not making errors that were identified in the report. For example, training riders how to not go wide and improving braking skills. Basically, look at accidents, determine what the operator did wrong and "don't do that".

Hough observed that there were riders that logged 100K + miles and many decades without incident. He decided to interview those riders to figure out what they were doing right and incorporate that into his training. A subtle but significant shift.
 
My situation was simple. 56 sih MPH on US 35 just puttering on a nice October afternoon. Looked to my right and saw afternoon sun through the trees peeping from behind the houses. Just loping along when a 73 Y/o man blows a stop sign.

Because I had practiced EVERY ride I did not lock the brakes. The Tropper said there were only 8 feet of skid before i plowed into him. There was only time for an Oh Shit and not much else I remember. I had done drills on long lonely highways saying "next bird that flies across my path I am going to do an emergency stop" then when one did I counted the number of white stripes it took me to stop. I practice constantly and drive defensively...overly so. That and ATGTT saved me

There was nothing more I could do. Been past that spot 200 times since then and relive it every time I pass from both directions.

That neurologist was right in my case. I made my visit and 155K miles later I am still riding. Traded my Alpinestars and Olympia for more protective Motoport and touring boots for Forma ADVs. Been in Shoei and Klim helmets since then.

I disagree with his approach to patients. I understand why he does it but I am less likely to scare someone than I am to say.....If you love to ride then do it right. Wear the gear, take the training and then practice every ride. When I flew I was the same. Practice, practice and then debrief every ride thinking how you could have improved it.

ATGATT.jpgaccbike7.jpegacc whlchr.jpgacccar3.jpeg
fleet.jpg

In the end .... The ER doc may be correct but those of us who ride and love it are going to ride. The best we can do is teach those that don't how to teach their toddlers to yell out when they see a bike.....then when they are 16 they will automatically see us. My grandson shakes his head in the car seat and sees someone without a helmet saying "MOM, that man's not saife" So I am assured he will see motorcycles the rest of his life. Teaching Mom and dad to see bikes is his gift from him to them.

The second thing we can do is what was done in the original post. Teach those that want to ride the way to do it safely. When you hand a kid a knife to cut vegetable stir fry you teach him how to handle a knife. When you show him how to bait a hook or handle a gun you teach him how to do it responsibly.....no less for bikes. Teach em good habits and they will aspire to excellence.
 
freebird6 said:
...those of us who ride and love it are going to ride..
Click to expand...
We went to Palo Alto where my daughter and SIL live over Christmas. Both of his parents were adamant that I must quit riding. After trying to figure out why my bike was pointed in the wrong direction after my accident, my next concern was how fast I could get another. There was never a consideration that I wouldn't ride again in my mind.

When my wife was asked by them why she approved of me riding again, she replied, "I knew it wouldn't do any good." I have a great wife!

Chris
 
freebird6 said:
My situation was simple. 56 sih MPH on US 35 just puttering on a nice October afternoon. Looked to my right and saw afternoon sun through the trees peeping from behind the houses. Just loping along when a 73 Y/o man blows a stop sign.

Because I had practiced EVERY ride I did not lock the brakes. The Tropper said there were only 8 feet of skid before i plowed into him. There was only time for an Oh Shit and not much else I remember. I had done drills on long lonely highways saying "next bird that flies across my path I am going to do an emergency stop" then when one did I counted the number of white stripes it took me to stop. I practice constantly and drive defensively...overly so. That and ATGTT saved me

There was nothing more I could do. Been past that spot 200 times since then and relive it every time I pass from both directions.

That neurologist was right in my case. I made my visit and 155K miles later I am still riding. Traded my Alpinestars and Olympia for more protective Motoport and touring boots for Forma ADVs. Been in Shoei and Klim helmets since then.

I disagree with his approach to patients. I understand why he does it but I am less likely to scare someone than I am to say.....If you love to ride then do it right. Wear the gear, take the training and then practice every ride. When I flew I was the same. Practice, practice and then debrief every ride thinking how you could have improved it.

View attachment 40681View attachment 40678View attachment 40679View attachment 40680
View attachment 40682

In the end .... The ER doc may be correct but those of us who ride and love it are going to ride. The best we can do is teach those that don't how to teach their toddlers to yell out when they see a bike.....then when they are 16 they will automatically see us. My grandson shakes his head in the car seat and sees someone without a helmet saying "MOM, that man's not saife" So I am assured he will see motorcycles the rest of his life. Teaching Mom and dad to see bikes is his gift from him to them.

The second thing we can do is what was done in the original post. Teach those that want to ride the way to do it safely. When you hand a kid a knife to cut vegetable stir fry you teach him how to handle a knife. When you show him how to bait a hook or handle a gun you teach him how to do it responsibly.....no less for bikes. Teach em good habits and they will aspire to excellence.
Click to expand...
So glad that you made it through such a terrible experience and are still on 2. Have you considered an air bag vest and would it have helped in any way? I am seriously thinking of adding a Tech Air 5 to my gear collection.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Rob
 
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