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A new flash for 2015-2018... any interest?

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
  I have developed a new flash that utilizes the stock 02 sensors, but incorporates  Mountain Runner technology. The result would be stock emission compliance, good fuel economy plus all the rideability of the Mountain Runner flash. This flash is only available for stock or slip on mufflers.

  Any interest? I'm thinking this is a good option particularly for the Cali guys, but anyone with a 2015-2018 would be able to use this flash.

  Let me know your thoughts ...

  Steve
 

Biggus Dekkus

Member
Member
Yes, I would be interested in a flash for my 2016 that incorporates the O2 sensors.  After 18K miles on my stock bike, I haven't gone for your flash yet since I'm mostly pleased with present performance.  Maybe I haven't noticed deficiencies because I came from a C10 so this bike seems awesome so far.  Most riding is mountains & winding roads.
 

Deepseamdv

Crotch Rocket
"I haven't gone for your flash yet since I'm mostly pleased with present performance"

If you think you're pleased now, you ain't seen nuthin yet. After you get Flashed :great: by Steve (protect your eyes, it's an image you can't forget) you'll know what all the fuss is about.
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
NinjaBreadMan,,, you sed; Most riding is mountains & winding roads.
I think I hate you!!  {I live in Houston}  :truce:

I suspect this Flash is a Oxygen Sensor Version of his Mountain Runner Flash.
  Sounds like it's built for you!!  {Hint/hint}

Ride safe, Ted
 

Hiddenmickey

Member
Member
I can't keep up with all the different flashes.  I think I have the original "decell" flash.  I have a Staintune slip-on.  Is this what I want/need now?
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
Hiddenmickey said:
I can't keep up with all the different flashes.  I think I have the original "decell" flash.  I have a Staintune slip-on.  Is this what I want/need now?

This is a pretty legitimate question. Let me try to explain the hows and why's of there being different flashes.

  In my first flash, the Original flash, my main objectives were to best all the other flash offerings. At that time the general emphasis of a flash from other vendors was to make more power, and that's about it. In my Original flash I also introduced the first flash that improved fuel economy and introduced smoothness, manners, and better shifting. Then the trouble started...  folks started asking for different things, based on their riding styles. The single most asked for feature was improved deceleration, which is what prompted the Decel flash.

  About a year later, I introduced the Evolution flash. The big difference In the Evolution flash was how the secondaries were employed. This was a departure from the simple idea of "just get the secondaries out of the way" and it worked great. It had more power and throttle response than the previous flashes, and although the deceleration was somewhat muted from the Decel flash, I felt it was "appropriate". I was very happy with that flash, but I'm in Florida and my riding conditions aren't the same as everyone else's . I did have a few folks, all mountain riders, who wanted better throttle transitions at low speed and more deceleration. With the help of several Beta testers, I went back to work and developed the Mountain Runner flash. Because of the differences, it was not feasible to just combine the Decel and the Evolution flash so I had to again develop a different approach to tuning for Mountain Runner.

  Mountain Runner is the Evolution flash from 10% throttle up, but they are very different from 10% throttle down into deceleration. The result is improved light / off throttle deceleration (think curve entrances and setting speed by throttle not brakes), seemless power when transitioning from off throttle to on throttle,  really finite throttle control and the best shifting you could imagine...seriously. All of this really makes the bike easier to ride in twisties and mountains, and also improves all low speed riding in general. You've seen the comments from guys riding on Mountain Runner. It works.

  So now the 02 enabled flash, for the 2015 up bikes. This flash is the Mountain Runner, but I'm letting the onboard o2 sensors control fuel trims under light throttle.  While effectively the air / fuel ratios will be the same for the pre and post 2015 flashes, I feel there may be some slight advantages to letting the computer "do it's thing" with up to the moment  02 sensor feedback. So far, all the feedback on this flash has been great, and in fact it may become the default offering for the 2015 - up bikes with the stock header.

    BTW, a word on deceleration qualities is probably in order. Deceleration, is, by definition, the opposite of building power. Since most tuners are interested in improving power, deceleration used to be seen as just  "it is what it is" kind of thing. It's not something you can develop on a dyno as how it applies can only be determined by actually riding and tuning to a "feel".  From a tuner's perspective, I've found working to improve the deceleration qualities to be very interesting, and the results while riding speak for themselves.

  Again, I really owe the success of my flashes to the guys who have them and have given me critical feedback over the years. Since my riding style and conditions aren't the same as everyone else's it would be foolish of me to just hold steadfast to "this is how I do it" tuning. I consider and appreciate all the feedback I get, and I think the improvements in the flashes over the years reflects that.

  I also want to add that if you want to switch to another flash, I charge 75.00 to reflash your ECU, but that also includes shipping and insurance. If you have a 2015 up Mountain Runner with the 02 sensors shut off and want to have them enabled, just pay the cost of shipping.

  Steve
 

Scary Harry

Fear is not boring. COG# 4090
Member
Okay Steve...Which one would you recommend for me?

Yes, me interested.

1. Very High winds while traveling east to west
2. High altitude >5000 feet
3. Mountains and twisties on occasion
4. Crappy dirt/gravel roads to get to/from highway.
5. Stock muffler
6. Short light weight rider
7. Original windscreen
8. Stock 2015 "Greendammit"
9. Access to E0 fuel
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
Harry Martin said:
Okay Steve...Which one would you recommend for me?

Yes, me interested.

1. Very High winds while traveling east to west
2. High altitude >5000 feet
3. Mountains and twisties on occasion
4. Crappy dirt/gravel roads to get to/from highway.
5. Stock muffler
6. Short light weight rider
7. Original windscreen
8. Stock 2015 "Greendammit"
9. Access to E0 fuel

Mountain Runner, with the 02 sensors enabled.

  as far as the "E0" fuel, I would rather see you select fuel based on it's cleaning package rather than it's ethanol content. I'd rather see a top tier E10 than a lower quality E0. I'm also comfortable with you dialing back the octane to 89 when at your altitude. Steve
 

Scary Harry

Fear is not boring. COG# 4090
Member
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
Harry Martin said:
Okay Steve...Which one would you recommend for me?

Yes, me interested.

1. Very High winds while traveling east to west
2. High altitude >5000 feet
3. Mountains and twisties on occasion
4. Crappy dirt/gravel roads to get to/from highway.
5. Stock muffler
6. Short light weight rider
7. Original windscreen
8. Stock 2015 "Greendammit"
9. Access to E0 fuel

Mountain Runner, with the 02 sensors enabled.

  as far as the "E0" fuel, I would rather see you select fuel based on it's cleaning package rather than it's ethanol content. I'd rather see a top tier E10 than a lower quality E0. I'm also comfortable with you dialing back the octane to 89 when at your altitude. Steve

Okay on the fuel adjustments. (Gee, it's like having my own personal doctor who makes house calls)

So, when will the new program be ready?
Will it let me ride faster than Ted? If so, where do I sign?
<snicker...I already ride faster than Ted and my bike is stock>
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
Harry Martin said:
Okay on the fuel adjustments. (Gee, it's like having my own personal doctor who makes house calls)

So, when will the new program be ready?
Will it let me ride faster than Ted? If so, where do I sign?
<snicker...I already ride faster than Ted and my bike is stock>

  It's ready now - click the link below and email me for further info.  include a phone #, I'll call.  thanks, Steve

 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Ok, OK,,, OOOOkkkay,,,, "I'll agree", everyone rides faster than me...  :rotflmao:
      :sign0103: :sign0103: :sign0103: :sign0103: :sign0103:

Did ya'll notice that I've been on my best behavior and tried to keep the discussion on track?

Let's go back to  A new flash for 2015-2018... any interest?
This seems like an ideal Flash for the newer Connies.

Ride safe, Ted
 

Deepseamdv

Crotch Rocket
:-\ https://sites.google.com/site/shoodabenengineering/concours1400 :)


Don't know how fast Ted rides but I think I've got yall beat. :great: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
 

Biggus Dekkus

Member
Member
connie_rider said:
NinjaBreadMan,,, you sed; Most riding is mountains & winding roads.
I think I hate you!!  {I live in Houston}  :truce:

I suspect this Flash is a Oxygen Sensor Version of his Mountain Runner Flash.
  Sounds like it's built for you!!  {Hint/hint}

Ride safe, Ted

Hey Ted - we haven't built a wall to keep the Texans away from our mountains - at least not yet!  :D  So if you choose to stay in the flat-lands, don't hate me! :beerchug:  I think this is a great idea to create a flash for the newer bikes with O2 sensors.  If you have that additional information, it could help to use it in the fuel mapping, and there is no down-side.
 

Scary Harry

Fear is not boring. COG# 4090
Member
connie_rider said:
Ok, OK,,, OOOOkkkay,,,, "I'll agree", everyone rides faster than me...  :rotflmao:
      :sign0103: :sign0103: :sign0103: :sign0103: :sign0103:

Did ya'll notice that I've been on my best behavior and tried to keep the discussion on track?

Let's go back to  A new flash for 2015-2018... any interest?
This seems like an ideal Flash for the newer Connies.

Ride safe, Ted

Okay...here is the real reason Ted rides slower than everyone.
See the data downloaded from Steve, A.K.A. shoodabenengineering

Clearly...the faster Ted tries to ride, the slower his bike goes.
Isn't software amazing?
:))
 

Attachments

  • TED vs EVOLUTION vs Stock.png
    TED vs EVOLUTION vs Stock.png
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5

56taskforce

Guest
Guest
Just found this thread, I have about a couple hundred miles on this tune as all I got to do is ride it to work a couple time before it started raining. My first impression spectacular, I need to get some more time on it for sure to give Steve some good intuitive feedback. I have always been a cruiser writer except for a short spell in my twenties when I rode a VFR 750 I then that was a short spell and I then gone back to writing American v-twins because quite frankly I scared myself with aggressive sport riding. The year before last I had a C10 given to me I liked it so much I done went out and bought a 2016 c14. To be honest the c14 was another bike that scared me. Since having Steve tune the bike I found that it wasn't the power that scared me it was the way it was applied this tune delivers so much more power but delivers it so much more smoothly I now feel very very comfortable on the bike.
I have more much more to say about it but have run myself out of time I'll be back for sure. More later!!!
 

deltonian

Bicycle
Forum Subscriber
So now the 02 enabled flash, for the 2015 up bikes. This flash is the Mountain Runner, but I'm letting the onboard o2 sensors control fuel trims under light throttle.  While effectively the air / fuel ratios will be the same for the pre and post 2015 flashes, I feel there may be some slight advantages to letting the computer "do it's thing" with up to the moment  02 sensor feedback. So far, all the feedback on this flash has been great, and in fact it may become the default offering for the 2015 - up bikes with the stock header.

So I am interested in upgrading to Mountain Runner from the EVO but not sure if I want the o2 sensors enabled or not? Are you disabling them under anything but light throttle? My only care is for performance and would like to understand better how "doing its own thing" may be better...
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
Deltonian said:
So I am interested in upgrading to Mountain Runner from the EVO but not sure if I want the o2 sensors enabled or not? Are you disabling them under anything but light throttle? My only care is for performance and would like to understand better how "doing its own thing" may be better...

  There's different aspects of performance. Good fuel economy when not trying to use power, as in cruising, is certainly a type of performance. When on power, you're on my fueling. Steve
 
5

56taskforce

Guest
Guest
Rode the bike today still think it's spectacular! For the NW guys that are attending the Bun Cooler my bike will be there.
 

jdsco

Scooter
Forum Subscriber
Harry Martin said:
1. Very High winds while traveling east to west
2. High altitude >5000 feet
3. Mountains and twisties on occasion
4. Crappy dirt/gravel roads to get to/from highway.
5. Stock muffler
6. Short light weight rider
7. Original windscreen
8. Stock 2015 "Greendammit"
9. Access to E0 fuel

I'm in a quite similar scenario as Harry Martin
1. Very high mountain winds, not Cheyenne winds
2. High altitude 8000 to 12000
3. Mountains and twisties predominately
4. Crappy dirt/gravel roads to get to/from
5. Delkevic 18" slip-on
6. Tall heavy weight rider
7. MRA short windscreen
8. Traxxion/Penske suspension
9. E0 91oct whenever possible

I just returned from my first spring run with your MRunner flash and suspension upgrades
My house at 9000' to Monarch Pass 11300', E0 91oct
MRunner transforms ride into a more constant 6th gear ascent, no constant downshift, 50 to 70mph, aggressive
With exception of tight turns and passing in 5th gear, more than enough torque
Ample torque accelerating in 6th
Very smooth trans shifting throughout
Seems, feels as if, the top end torque is less
Fuel consumption 47mpg

I don't grasp your description of 10% throttle;
10% physical throttle rotation, throttle valve?
10% of available power for altitude?
10% of RPM range?

I'm very interested!

I do "trials-ride" the C14, plonk along in 1st gear, slow on gravel/dirt roads
Engine is smooth and responsive throughout but definitely at this plonk-scenario, that I guess is, 10% throttle
Please explain any advantage of the O2's being online with my high density altitude scenario?

Thanks Steve

 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
JDSCO said:
I do "trials-ride" the C14, plonk along in 1st gear, slow on gravel/dirt roads
Engine is smooth and responsive throughout but definitely at this plonk-scenario, that I guess is, 10% throttle
Please explain any advantage of the O2's being online with my high density altitude scenario?


  Y'all are kind of conflating some different ideas here. forget about all the atmospheric condition stuff for a moment, The ecu has a method to adjust for that whether or not the bike is fitted with 02 sensors. Just think of the 02 sensors as optimizing the a/f ratio for economy in real time. My flash has the light throttle a/f ratios emulating those values .With the sensor enabled, the only difference would be that the light throttle a/f ratio would be trimmed by the sensors rather than being mandated by the look up map. The ultimate effect would be very close either way. Steve
 

jdsco

Scooter
Forum Subscriber
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
  There's different aspects of performance. Good fuel economy when not trying to use power, as in cruising, is certainly a type of performance. When on power, you're on my fueling. Steve

...The ultimate effect would be very close either way. Steve

I like performance riding and I'm not concerned about fuel economy, primarily.
I ride mountain, twisty roads constantly and I appreciate your MR Flash, especially the "decel".

Your initial post asks if there's any interest. I'm interested but I can't decide if it's worth the down-time.

It appears, from your words, that reflashing to utilize o2 sensors will add performance value with regard to fuel economy only.

True?
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
JDSCO said:
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
  There's different aspects of performance. Good fuel economy when not trying to use power, as in cruising, is certainly a type of performance. When on power, you're on my fueling. Steve

...The ultimate effect would be very close either way. Steve

I like performance riding and I'm not concerned about fuel economy, primarily.
I ride mountain, twisty roads constantly and I appreciate your MR Flash, especially the "decel".

It appears, from your words, that reflashing to utilize o2 sensors will add performance value with regard to fuel economy only.

True?

that would be a fair statement. Steve
 

deltonian

Bicycle
Forum Subscriber
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
JDSCO said:
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
  There's different aspects of performance. Good fuel economy when not trying to use power, as in cruising, is certainly a type of performance. When on power, you're on my fueling. Steve

...The ultimate effect would be very close either way. Steve

I like performance riding and I'm not concerned about fuel economy, primarily.
I ride mountain, twisty roads constantly and I appreciate your MR Flash, especially the "decel".

It appears, from your words, that reflashing to utilize o2 sensors will add performance value with regard to fuel economy only.

True?

that would be a fair statement. Steve
This pretty much clarifies the o2 question for me as I am not concerned with fuel economy either. I plan on upgrading to MR before summer.
 

Biggus Dekkus

Member
Member
Grant said:
Rode the bike today still think it's spectacular! For the NW guys that are attending the Bun Cooler my bike will be there.

I will be at the Bun Cooler also, and have a 2016 stock bike.  Would be interesting to have this opportunity to make a direct comparison with the only difference being the flash.
 
5

56taskforce

Guest
Guest
NinjaBreadMan said:
Grant said:
Rode the bike today still think it's spectacular! For the NW guys that are attending the Bun Cooler my bike will be there.

I will be at the Bun Cooler also, and have a 2016 stock bike.  Would be interesting to have this opportunity to make a direct comparison with the only difference being the flash.

Would you like to meet up and make the trip together? I have invited a friend to come along on his FJR but he hasn't made up his mind yet. Don't really want to make the ride by myself but it is looking like I may. I plan on leaving early morning on the 18th.
 

DanZX14

Tricycle
Steve,
Please correct me if I am wrong but C-14 2015 and up have 2 maps? Normal and Eco
Differences between the two is limited to a/f ratio only?

When you flash the ECU, you override the normal map only?
Then after reading countless of re-flash post it seems useless to ever switch back to Eco mode anymore.  Since the flash no matter which one you choose from Steve seems to have better fuel economy right?

And finally, getting the new flash with O2 sensor enabled;
If I understand, the flash as like a new set of instructions that come on and off depending on how much you open the throttle?
Like 0 to 10% O2 sensor will work with the flash and 11% and up O2 sensor will stop working?

Performance wise you don't predict any loss of power at any rpm?
mpg wise should or will be better with the O2 sensor working than just the Mt R flash without O2 enabled?

Thanks
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
There's lots of difference between power and eco to make them what they are, but after my flash you get all the power  / smoothness / throttle control on the default (power ) map, to the point that unless you're specifically droning the highway for hundreds of miles, there would be no gain to even use ECO anymore.

  As far as 02 enabled or disabled... My mapping has different a/f ratios depending on what you're doing with the bike. IE, cruising vs power doesn't need the same a/f ratio.  Basically the same light throttle a/f ratios are achieved either by my mapping, or with the o2 sensors enabled. Since the ecu has the 02 sensors, why not use them for real world fuel correction. Remember, this is for light throttle operation, not when you're calling for power, in that case my fueling takes over.

I hope this answers your Q's. Steve

 
5

56taskforce

Guest
Guest
Rode it to work today and put some more miles on it Steve  :) it is hard to evaluate as I am still too gitty about how much fun it is to ride now. It's much faster and much easier to control.
 

jmozg1400

Training Wheels
I hate to rain on the parade here, but I'm only getting 35mpg on the mountain flash.  Performance is good.  70 degrees today in Ohio on 93octane.  In November when I first got it I was getting 35mph then. I gave it the benefit of the doubt because of the coolness in the air. Put 200+ miles on it.  I put the bike away for the winter, then rode it twice this month and both times 35mpg.  I thought people were getting 45mpg or there about.
 

MAN OF BLUES

Guest
Guest
jmozg1400 said:
I hate to rain on the parade here, but I'm only getting 35mph on the mountain flash.  Performance is good.  70 degrees today in Ohio on 93octane.  In November when I first got it I was getting 35mph then. I gave it the benefit of the doubt because of the coolness in the air. Put 200+ miles on it.  I put the bike away for the winter, then rode it twice this month and both times 35mph.  I thought people were getting 45mph or there about.

Bummer dude, my '08 could easily do 158 mph... ever since I bought it...
Sell the bike.. something is wrong...
:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Just kidding, clear the cashed MPG memory in the computer, by pushing and holding the buttons as explained inyour owner handbook..
Then come back and tell us what the MPG actually is.. :motonoises:

From a fellow Ohio owner by the way... :beerchug: :great:
 

jmozg1400

Training Wheels
MAN OF BLUES said:
jmozg1400 said:
I hate to rain on the parade here, but I'm only getting 35mph on the mountain flash.  Performance is good.  70 degrees today in Ohio on 93octane.  In November when I first got it I was getting 35mph then. I gave it the benefit of the doubt because of the coolness in the air. Put 200+ miles on it.  I put the bike away for the winter, then rode it twice this month and both times 35mph.  I thought people were getting 45mph or there about.

Bummer dude, my '08 could easily do 158 mph... ever since I bought it...
Sell the bike.. something is wrong...
:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Just kidding, clear the cashed MPG memory in the computer, by pushing and holding the buttons as explained inyour owner handbook..
Then come back and tell us what the MPG actually is.. :motonoises:

From a fellow Ohio owner by the way... :beerchug: :great:

I have a 2016 with 3700 miles on it.  It's fine. My last one was an '08.  How are you liking that heat blasting on your legs LMFAO!
 

MAN OF BLUES

Guest
Guest
jmozg1400 said:
MAN OF BLUES said:
jmozg1400 said:
I hate to rain on the parade here, but I'm only getting 35mph on the mountain flash.  Performance is good.  70 degrees today in Ohio on 93octane.  In November when I first got it I was getting 35mph then. I gave it the benefit of the doubt because of the coolness in the air. Put 200+ miles on it.  I put the bike away for the winter, then rode it twice this month and both times 35mph.  I thought people were getting 45mph or there about.

Bummer dude, my '08 could easily do 158 mph... ever since I bought it...
Sell the bike.. something is wrong...
:rotflmao: :rotflmao:

Just kidding, clear the cashed MPG memory in the computer, by pushing and holding the buttons as explained inyour owner handbook..
Then come back and tell us what the MPG actually is.. :motonoises:

From a fellow Ohio owner by the way... :beerchug: :great:

I have a 2016 with 3700 miles on it.  It's fine. My last one was an '08.  How are you liking that heat blasting on your legs LMFAO!

I wear high topped riding boots, and an Aerostich, never had an issue of complaint with heat...on my legs.

Iirc, Steve introduced the M/R flash in December... and didn't really send any out before mid month... so I'm confused about you saying you had it in November and only got 35mpg....hmmm by the time those flashes were sent out, It was a foot deep in snow here, in OHIO, and my bike was deep in the garage.
As for your poor mileage figures, you are the first person here I've seen that has reported this issue, so I hope you get it straightened out, as it is not something "common". With well over 500 happy customers, so far, there has to be some issue left as a mystery.
Ride safe.
 
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