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C10 Hydrolock

smithr

smithr

Member
Member
Steve in Sunny Fl. wrote:
Here's a quick way to check if your engine has a bent rod due to Hydrolock. This is credited to Connierider, AKA Ted Adcock, an upstanding member of the COG community.

First, you need to make up a quick depth gauge. A long round shank screwdriver or metal rod, app 1/4" diameter works well. It needs to be at least 1 foot long. Slide a 2-3" piece of vacuum hose onto the shaft. Make sure it's tight enough to stay in the position you slide it to. If it's a bit tight, grease the rod and and the piece of hose will slide more easily.

Next, remove all the spark plugs.

Finally, measure the piston depth of the piston PAIRS, in other words compare the height of 1-4 and then 2-3. Don't compare the 1-4 to 2-3, only compare 1 to 4, and 2 to 3. Simply drop the rod through the plug hole til it rests on the piston, then slide the tubing down til it just touches the valve cover lip. Leave the tubing in that position, go to the other piston of the pair, and drop the rod down the plug hole. The rod should hit the piston at the same time the tubing touches the valve cover lip. If one piston is low, the rubber tube will be lower comparably to the cylinder head.


    Many thanks to Connierider for offering this idea a couple years ago, and it has served me well. In light of all the hydrolocks that happen, I'd really like to see this post be a sticky. Grin Steve
 
Next wrench session or next time I have a plug out, I'll get to it :)


Here you go, the first #1 piston height then #4






 
An increasing common problem with the Kawasaki  Concours ZG1000 as they get older is them hydrolocking especially if they are not ridden frequently or not well maintained.


Attached is an article that covers most of what you need to know, what and how it happens, what you can do to prevent it, and some of your options if it happens.


I created the PDF so it can be printed out if you wish to pin up in your shop or what ever. The document will be revised over time with any new ideas you would like me to consider for inclusion, or errors/omissions that are found.



The article is an abridged and 'updated' version of my Spring 2010 Concourier article that goes into more detail on how to rebuild, repair or upgrade the engine as well.


Please PM or Email me with any errors, omissions or inclusions you may have.


Colin
PS I will be making this tread sticky and moving some of the other posts into this thread.
Be aware it will also be closely moderated and any posts that don't provide value will be deleted.
 

Attachments

  • Colin_Hydrolock - online.pdf
    1.4 MB · Views: 1,280
:'(Can anyone help I have a 92 concours zg 1000 a7 it has a bent connecting rod on #4 cylinder I have broken down the engine to the case. I know about buying a used engine on E-Bay and don't want to do that I will repair this on my own. I have been read in the manual that the connecting rods are match in pairs and that they need to be the same weight is this true if so where can I get just one rod and it be the right weight. Any help will be greatly appreciated. :'( 
 
PM me with the weight of the rod you want. The weight letter is stamped in ink across the joint of the big end halves

They will be a capital H I J K or L

I will likely have one for you. But you will need to join COG first lol. :)
 
Well I got my petcock kit from murphs and everything is good, I raced a r1150gs 2003
model all evening on back twisty roads and believe it or not I won 2 out of three!
I must of died and gone to heaven. We rode for hours like fustrated fighter pilots.

Russell in KY
 
Colin said:
An increasing common problem with the Kawasaki  Concours ZG1000 as they get older is them hydrolocking especially if they are not ridden frequently or not well maintained.


Attached is an article that covers most of what you need to know, what and how it happens, what you can do to prevent it, and some of your options if it happens.


I created the PDF so it can be printed out if you wish to pin up in your shop or what ever. The document will be revised over time with any new ideas you would like me to consider for inclusion, or errors/omissions that are found.



The article is an abridged and 'updated' version of my Spring 2010 Concourier article that goes into more detail on how to rebuild, repair or upgrade the engine as well.


Please PM or Email me with any errors, omissions or inclusions you may have.


Colin
PS I will be making this tread sticky and moving some of the other posts into this thread.
Be aware it will also be closely moderated and any posts that don't provide value will be deleted.
Click to expand...
You are the man Colin!  Thanks.
 
Thanks to all members for the heads up on hydro lock.
I have a thread on electrical/firing probs on a 87 I just bought. Being that it only has 23k on it I assume it is ripe for such an issue. Although the bike ran at purchase and top of carbs were pretty clean, we pulled cleaned pin/spings/top of carbs  replaced fuel and inline filtered, I'm told the entire carb/fuel system should be rebuilt to avoid hydrolock (make sense?)
I will print the article and hope it is within my time and ability's.

This site and you guys rock. Looking forward to the road.
E J
 
I am the proud owner of a 2005 C10 with 85,000 miles. The bike was ridden off the lot by the PO and I am the second owner. The bike has all records and has been very well taken care of and maintained. Never dropped and all original. I purchased around a month ago. I immediately joined COG and began to educate myself on the C10.

During my search, I discovered the terror of Hydrolock!  IMHO, I believe that a Carb complete overhaul, including overflow tubes is a necessity.  I have proactively begun the process and while my carbs are with SISF, I am doing the Murphs Manual Petcock install.  The C10 is great bike, and with the peace of mind of avoiding Hydrolock I can truly enjoy the bike for what is was designed for...riding. :motonoises:

Later I may do the stick coils and eliminate the reeds on top of the valve cover (need to look into that a little more).

Ride safe, Y'all!
Bob in Jawjah

 
Bob said:
I am doing the Murphs Manual Petcock install. 
Ride safe, Y'all!
Bob in Jawjah
Click to expand...

This only works if you remember to turn the fuel off, otherwise you're worse off than with the working stock vacume petcock. 
 
In the article, it mentions making your own overflow tubes. Any details/instructions on that job?
 
web.ncf.ca/ag136/floatDrainTubes.htm
This is probably the artical you're looking for. I've been told to ignore the op and cut the tubes to 8-10mm instead of 4mm.
 
i love my 99 connie but you guys with all this talk about hydro lock are starting to scare the crap outta me im the second owner of this bike and the owner before me took good care of it . with the water pump o rings taking a dump on me and replacing that also the j box dying on me and getting another one and now hydro lock  :mad:  im starting to think i should of did more looking into this bike before i got it..... ive only owned kaw. bikes and ive never had a problem with the pet cocks before nor the problems in which this bike seems to have
 
I can tell you that I did not do alot of research on this bike and I wish I would have. I'm doing my best to prevent catastrophic failure without spending a ton of coin. I've already spent about 700 on maintenance (tires, brake rebuild kits, brake pads, fluids, paint, fork seals- 2 kits - don't ask, tip over bars, plastifix, carb sync tool, and general shop stuff). Now I have to have overflow tubes installed. Unfortunately whoever had this bike before me let it sit i. A garage for 2 years due to illness. Not knowing much about the bike, I thought it looked pretty good until I got into it. I guess on the upside, I only paid $2200 and Ill be an expert mechanic when it's done. I still want to buy a trunk, Bluetooth headset for the helmet, and cell phone mount. I'm hoping the wife doesn't divorce me when I break the news to her

???
 
I had never heard of hydrolock  myself until I was looking into purchasing a c10, I watched the YouTube video and within 24 hours of first hearing those words I was performing the test on my soon to be /c 10, since then I have trained my little sister and two chimpanzees to do this test. so please don't worry it's very simple, make a little gadget, pull your tank, spark plug wires, coils, and plugs, then perform the test as explained in the video. by the way if your gas tank is spewing fuel everywhere and it is set in either the on or reserve position it needs immediate attention, I said attention not replacement with a manual petcock, that is not exactly a bad thing but it's not the best IMHO. If you have positive results from your test your next step is to pull your carburetors off and send them to Steve in sunny Florida, place an order to Murph for brand new air box boots, and reassemble.
 
Capo said:
If you have positive results from your test your next step is to pull your carburetors off and send them to Steve in sunny Florida, place an order to Murph for brand new air box boots, and reassemble.
Click to expand...

Sorry...  :sign0104: here...  By "positive results", do you mean the 1/4 and 2/3 comparisons match up or do you mean if they don't (indicating that something is not right)?  I thought once the connecting rod is bent, there is nothing to be done but replace it.  I am missing what having SnSF doing the carb work will help...  ???  Again... noob here so please bear with.  :truce:

Thanks!! 

Diane
 
To the folks who seem "scared", I've seen many many Connies with over 100K miles (and several hitting 200K miles), and I've yet to see one with hydrolock.

Not scientific stats by any means, but just something to ponder.

I was a HONDA fan for reliability until I saw the mileage this COG outfit is getting.  Now my Kawasaki has 70K on it in 3 years and wow, I haven't even adjusted the throttle cable or idle on it yet.  But it eats tires and brake pads like mad
icon10.gif
 
sorry Diane, by positive result I meant that all is well. 1&4 equal 2&3 equal. then the follow up to that is insurance and protection from it ever happening, by carburetor overflow tube installation, and insuring that your petcock is working properly. sorry for any confusion
 
Capo said:
sorry Diane, by positive result I meant that all is well. 1&4 equal 2&3 equal. then the follow up to that is insurance and protection from it ever happening, by carburetor overflow tube installation, and insuring that your petcock is working properly. sorry for any confusion
Click to expand...

No worries at all!!  Thank you so much for clarifying.  I was pretty sure that's what you meant but often "positive results" when testing mean bad things, not good ones!  ???

WHEW!  Thanks!  :beerchug:  I'll have to put together one of those testing rods and get her checked out.  >:D  And, assuming all is good, get in touch w/ SISF...  :great:
 
Good deal, one thing i did not mention is to take your side panels off first (Steve's suggestion to me) because upon re-assembly the tank could scratch them. So after you determine that EVERYTHING IS FINE with your rods :bravo_2: Its a perfect time to change your plugs if needed. So lets say you make the wise choice and sent your carbs for overflow tubes (a must) for peace of mind, and the 2 min mod (might as well), just order the air box boots... I tried to save a few bucks and use my old ones during re-assembly, what a PITA. The job was easy, seriously smooth, and seriously impossible with the  old ones. Then as long as your petcock is functioning properly (redundancy is peace of mind) thats it for that. I see your posts Di, and you can do this, be positive, you rock :great:
 
Capo said:
Good deal, one thing i did not mention is to take your side panels off first (Steve's suggestion to me) because upon re-assembly the tank could scratch them.
Click to expand...

Great hint! Thanks!    :great:

Capo said:
So lets say you make the wise choice and sent your carbs for overflow tubes (a must) for peace of mind, and the 2 min mod (might as well), just order the air box boots... I tried to save a few bucks and use my old ones during re-assembly, what a PITA.
Click to expand...

The air box boots come from Murphs, yes?  Figures... I JUST ordered some stuff from them earlier today.  :mad:

Capo said:
I see your posts Di, and you can do this, be positive, you rock :great:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the vote of confidence.  ;)  I'm reasonably mechanically inclined but lack experience and general know-how.    I find the manuals often-times very confusing because they assume that the reader knows things that I do not know how to do but can do no problem once shown/had it explained.  :)

 
SCATES i did see in a couple of threads where guys were able to rebuild by trading parts and such. Real bummer very sorry to hear that. Might I ask if your bike had the usual red flags i.e. gas leaking from air box, petcock issues... What ,if any, were your "red flags"
 
Thanks for the condolences, Capo.

Here are some red flags--that I might have ignored :-[
  • Engine never ran quite as strong as my other '97
  • Smell of gas in the garage, when parked
  • Once or twice, I noticed gasoline had dripped from the left muffler weep hole at startup
  • At least two starts, resulting in a single, loud, very distinct "KLUNK" sound
  • Rough, low-powered running until 5500rpm, when it would smooth out, with power

Surprisingly, there was no gas in the cylinders when I pulled the plugs--but it's been sitting for a few months so who knows.

I thought the bike's original low-performance indicated it needed a valve adjust--and it still might need one--but I'm sure a bent rod or two would have lowered compression significantly enough to make it anemic.

Since this bike was always slightly weaker than my other '97, I now suspect one of the rods was already bent when I bought it and I just wound up bending the second rod a few months ago before I parked it. 

Hopefully the engine is otherwise ok enough to swap in two same-weight rods. I don't know yet what else might be needed but if it's rebuildable with my resources, then I will freshen it up with some new o-rings in both coolant logs and the thermostat.  Aside from Snarf's block-off plates, she's bone-stock so I'm open to affordable suggestions if anyone else wants to chime in with suggestions for upgrades and preventative maintenance opportunities if and when I take the engine out for repairs.  I know, overflow tubes, right!? 

Can I reuse the existing bearing shells with swapped rods? How about reusing the cap bolts?
 
you need to inspect the rods, and the crank, for the bearing sizes... they differ, and that makes a sligtly more complex job of "swapping" parts. Make sure you have a factory manual, it is all explained in there how to identify the rod and crankshaft interfaces and bearings required....I think there are 4 different permutations IIRC ::)
 
Can hydrolock be prevented with a different starter?

IF the ZRX starter has a clutched starter...
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
....the rex engine has a 2 piece clutched starter gear. If the starter encounters to much resistence while engaged, the gear will slip and prevent an issue.
Click to expand...

...is that for the ZRX1100 or ZRX1200?  Because a ZRX11 starter also fits the ZG1000.

Check out the Ron Ayers fitment of Kawi #21163-1161 here:
http://www.ronayers.com/WhereUsed/N/9935

Cheers
 
Hydrolock can not be prevented by a different starter. The chances of causing catastrophic engine damage after a hydrolock event can be greatly reduced by using a clutch type starter.
 
Capo said:
Hydrolock can not be prevented by a different starter. The chances of causing catastrophic engine damage after a hydrolock event can be greatly reduced by using a clutch type starter.
Click to expand...

What I'm getting at is whether or not a clutch type starter would be likely to reduce engine damage if there already was fuel in a/the cylinder(s). 

How about the ZZR starter? Will it fit? Which ones might help us?

If so, and it's an economical mod, then maybe we'd better take a look at the possibility.
 
the answer is absolutely yes the risk of engine damage can be reduced greatly with this mod. we just need a  cog member with a list of acceptable starters to chime in.
 
The mod would have to be less than $80, be less work and be more effective than overflow tubes.
 
  IS it the starter that bends the rod or when one cyl. fires and slams the piston full of fuel to the top of the cyl.?
 
Mettler1 said:
  IS it the starter that bends the rod or when one cyl. fires and slams the piston full of fuel to the top of the cyl.?
Click to expand...

The starter bends the rod because the (doomed) rod is moving upwards on the compression stroke (with both valves closed shut) AND with fuel in that cylinder.  Because there is such a small amount of physical volume at TDC, IF the amount of (incompressable) fuel that has leaked into the cylinder is GREATER than the minimum combustion chamber volume at TDC, then the piston physically slams to a stop against the liquid when ordinarily, it would simply compress the air/fuel gases mixture. 

Having nowhere else to go, the upward movement of the crankshaft's rod journal (at the nearly vertical and maximum leverage angle) simply bends the rod sideways on starter power alone. 

Kind of like pushing rope  :D

I heard mine happen at least two times and in each instance, I was saddled up to ride and hit the starter.  There was a never-before-heard "CLANG" type sound that I heard and felt throughout the bike.  It sounded very much like a metal-on-metal impact.  Even though it is simply the top of the piston slamming into a liquid, the combustion chamber is built so strong that it mechanically contains the impact until the weakest links in the stack fails -- primarily the connecting rods and secondarily the wrist pins.

Here are some fuel-in-cylinder scenarios I can visualize at the moment of starter activation:
Compression Stroke: Fuel rides up on top of the piston and bends the rod
Intake Stroke: fuel rides down on the piston, then up on compression = bent rod
Exhaust Stroke: fuel is ejected through the exhaust = no damage
Power Stroke: fuel rides down, then is ejected on the next (exhaust) stroke = no damage

Also, at the moment of starter activation, IF there is NOT enough fuel in the cylinder to bend the rod, then liquid fuel will be ejected through the exhaust system on ANY stroke .  For example, I saw fuel dripping out a muffler weep hole the day of a hydrolock.  Physics sure taught me a lesson that day  :-[
 
Mettler1 said:
  IS it the starter that bends the rod or when one cyl. fires and slams the piston full of fuel to the top of the cyl.?
Click to expand...

Past debates about this were not conclusive.  I would guess the starter could bend it if given enough momentum and if another cylinder fires there is a greater chance.
 
starters -

There are no clutched starters from the other model bikes. They use the same starter our bikes use. The difference is that the zx11 / zrx engines have a 2 piece clutched starter gear in the engine block. I put one in shoodaben 5 years ago when I built it. Problem is, it's the very FIRST part to go in the split engine cases.  Still seem like a good idea ? ??? Steve
 
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
starters -

There are no clutched starters from the other model bikes. They use the same starter our bikes use. The difference is that the zx11 / zrx engines have a 2 piece clutched starter gear in the engine block. I put one in shoodaben 5 years ago when I built it. Problem is, it's the very FIRST part to go in the split engine cases.  Still seem like a good idea ? ??? Steve
Click to expand...
  Do you have a part # for that? 
 
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
....The difference is that the zx11 / zrx engines have a 2 piece clutched starter gear in the engine block. I put one in shoodaben 5 years ago when I built it. Problem is, it's the very FIRST part to go in the split engine cases.  Still seem like a good idea ? ??? Steve
Click to expand...

It might be a good idea.  My bike's already tore down and the cases are set to be split for my 1052 build. So, for me, it might not be a horrible idea if it's cost-effective, doesn't require machining, or an extraordinary amount of additional labor, skill, or tools beyond a basic case-splitting hydrolock repair. 

Please elaborate on the two-piece clutched starter gear -- Does the ZX11/ZRX starter gear give a degree of hydrolock bent-rod protection?
 
  I am not yet convinced the starter is bending the rods in a hydrolock situation. I'll stay with the overflow tubes.
 
Just bought a 2001 C10 with 9200 miles.  Been sitting in the previous owners garage, infrequently ridden.  He didn't have an owners manual to give me.  No big deal I thought.

Anyways, I buy it and ride it home about 40 miles, feeling happy and carefree!  It's getting dark and I turn the fuel petcock to what I thougt was "off".  I'm in the house reading online about my new ride, when I discover to my horror, that 3 hours earlier I had turned the petcock to prime... and to add insult to injury, as I grab a flashlight and head outside (its 10:30 pm now) there was gas leaking from #2 carb.

Now, at this point I was about to start the bike to clear what I thought was a just flooded carb.  But I didn't start it, feeling I would wait until the morning instead.  WOW, am I glad I waited!!  Cause it was at this point I ran into COG and read about hydrolock... and joined the site!!  The 50 dollar membership saved my engine!!!  :)

So, I slept on all the info... and the next morning took everything apart to get the spark plugs out.  Keep in mind, I didn't know anything about this bike, and didn't have a book.  Just this website.  Making sure the coils were disconnected, I put a rag over the valve cover and hit the starter.  SURE ENOUGH, out of #2 cylinder shot a huge spray of gas!  After 10 seconds of clearing the cylinder, it seemed safe to move on.

Next, I used a wooden dowel rod with the fender washer between two sections of rubber vacuum hose, as the bend rod gage.  I was wondering if maybe the previous owner hydrolocked this bike... and didn't know it.  It runs well, and the plugs look good.  I figured that the COG "bent rod" gage would "tell all".

To my relief, no bent rods and I put it all back together.  Whew!  But now I'm aware of this petcock and fuel flooding issue.  I plan to run some sea foam through it for a couple weeks and I'm riding to work everyday.  I think the bike just needs to be run a bit and get things degummed a bit.  It starts/idles well, and makes good power, but the float needles might be a little gummed up.  Plugs look great, and no rich mixture indication.

Anyways, thanks for all the good info here and I thought my near-hydrolock might be good to share.  Beter safe than sorry!
 
Good thinking Tom. If it were me, I wouldn't have given it a second thought and hit the starter.  :eek:

After all the reading I've done on this board, I got the SISF over flow tubes as well as the full spa treatment. Now I can ride worry free.

One scare I did have with the over flow tubes was during a riding course I recently attended. After riding the course a bit we parked for a break. Walking back to the bike I notice the tube is wet at the bottom and I smell gas. Thankfully both my instructors were Coggers and they set me straight. It was wet because of all the turning we had been doing which is something you don't normally do during an average ride. So it was just gas spilling out of the bowl down the tube. Boy was I relieved. :)
 
Hello all!

I have been reading here about a lot of concours stuff. I just bought a Silver 2002 Concours with 15800 miles for $2600. I waited till i got the right deal. It has a upgraded seat, highway bars, Stiffer Front springs, handle bars, adjustible lowering links.

So i rode it 200 miles from where i picked it up and loved it instantly. My first bike was a 2003 Suzuki Bandit (GSF600S). I am indeed a bandit lover but i love the Connie even more i think.

i was doing a little math after i filled up for the second time 2 days ago and i hit the trip meeters. Today when i was leaving i thought i had just a little less gas on the meeter than i thought i had, I chaucked it up to my memory.

I got home today and the gas was near the red. I have only gone 145 miles. I opened the tank and i can see some gas when i slosh it. Is the begginging of the red line like near reserve or do i still have room to not be worried. i read of people getting 250 miles to a tank and i was worried i had gas dissapearing.

I checked the OEM over flow tubes and seemed dry, I saw no gas puddle, i smell no gas. I just wanted to get some assureances of i checked what i should.

The PO. Just rebuilt carbs and cleaned jets. He just bled brakes and changed differential fluid.

Any words of advice??? i think that a Overflow kit may be in my near futrue.


OHHHH and BTW how difficult is the 2min jet kit and is it worth it?
 
Hello and welcome Dan!

The fuel gauge is notoriously inaccurate, do a search here for the fix which involves the addition of a resistor. Or do like I do and just go by the trip meter.

There are no oem overflow tubes, you must be seeing the air vents. Or maybe the nipples on the bottom of the bowls, those are drains.

What you do want to do is periodically pull the fuel line off the petcock, with the motor not running. No gas should drip from the petcock in either the on or reserve positions.
 
Dan said:
Hello all!

I have been reading here about a lot of concours stuff. I just bought a Silver 2002 Concours with 15800 miles for $2600. I waited till i got the right deal. It has a upgraded seat, highway bars, Stiffer Front springs, handle bars, adjustible lowering links.

So i rode it 200 miles from where i picked it up and loved it instantly. My first bike was a 2003 Suzuki Bandit (GSF600S). I am indeed a bandit lover but i love the Connie even more i think.

i was doing a little math after i filled up for the second time 2 days ago and i hit the trip meeters. Today when i was leaving i thought i had just a little less gas on the meeter than i thought i had, I chaucked it up to my memory.

I got home today and the gas was near the red. I have only gone 145 miles. I opened the tank and i can see some gas when i slosh it. Is the begginging of the red line like near reserve or do i still have room to not be worried. i read of people getting 250 miles to a tank and i was worried i had gas dissapearing.

I checked the OEM over flow tubes and seemed dry, I saw no gas puddle, i smell no gas. I just wanted to get some assureances of i checked what i should.

The PO. Just rebuilt carbs and cleaned jets. He just bled brakes and changed differential fluid.

Any words of advice??? i think that a Overflow kit may be in my near futrue.


OHHHH and BTW how difficult is the 2min jet kit and is it worth it?
Click to expand...

  Do this  mod. Easy and cheep. Pretty darn accurate too!!\

          http://c10mods.blogspot.com/2011/07/c10-fuel-gauge-modification.html
 
Mettler, thanks for the link.

Does it matter how much gas is in the tank? Just stick it in connector, fill up, and that's it? Also what will the tank be telling me when it hits E? is it reserve time as soon as I hit the big E or is there mileage left before reserve?
 
Hazy said:
Mettler, thanks for the link.

Does it matter how much gas is in the tank? Just stick it in connector, fill up, and that's it? Also what will the tank be telling me when it hits E? is it reserve time as soon as I hit the big E or is there mileage left before reserve?
[/quote
  You will probably hit reserve somewhere in the red. Probably half way in the red. Best I can say is try it.
Click to expand...
 
Dan's 'petcock conversion kit' is the simple fix, but must be supplemented by advanced mental abilities to remember to use it! off and on. I turn mine off a few hundred feet before stopping.
It becomes routine quickly: no gas through, no hydro-lock.
 
Mettler1 said:
Hazy said:
Does it matter how much gas is in the tank? Just stick it in connector, fill up, and that's it? Also what will the tank be telling me when it hits E? is it reserve time as soon as I hit the big E or is there mileage left before reserve?
Click to expand...
  You will probably hit reserve somewhere in the red. Probably half way in the red. Best I can say is try it.
Click to expand...

I know Sparkie on the forum has done this to his C10 and he swears by it...  He says that it is WAY more accurate... as in, when it just gets to red, he has to switch to reserve...

So, I'm wondering if how much of it's accuracy has to do w/ how much fuel is in the tank when you first hook up the new resistor?  Would that/could that even make a difference?
 
  Nope. Just install and ride. You will probably get about 200 to 220 miles when the gauge gets to the red. You can probably go farther before reserve but depends on what kind of mileage you get with your bike.
 
Mettler1 said:
  Nope. Just install and ride. You will probably get about 200 to 220 miles when the gauge gets to the red. You can probably go farther before reserve but depends on what kind of mileage you get with your bike.
Click to expand...

Sounds good.  That's pretty much what I get w/ my usual weekly commuting.  Get closer to 240/250 when on road trips.  >:D

I've just learned to deal w/ it being in "red" all the time and keep an eye on the trip odo.... as soon as I hit 220 (unless I'm on a long ride), I usually fill up...  But I like the idea of a more accurate guage.

Any thoughts on running well into reserve or never (or hardly ever) using reserve?  Pros/cons?
 
Should probably move the handle back and forth a few times a year. It's all one tank, not like separate tanks where you might have an issue with stale gas from not using reserve. There's a short pipe connected to the 'On' position that prevents all the gas from being used. In reserve, the fuel is used near the bottom of the tank. Keep the tank clean and using reserve or not isn't an issue. However it's a good idea to exercise the handle now and then.
 
  I only moved my petcock once in 18 yrs  and that was a reserve situation. In that time it never leaked.
 
So now we know the secret... DO NOT MOVE YOUR PETCOCK MORE THAN ONCE IN 18 YEARS AND IT WILL NEVER LEAK!!!

woot.

j/k  :nananana:
 
WillyP said:
So now we know the secret... DO NOT MOVE YOUR PETCOCK MORE THAN ONCE IN 18 YEARS AND IT WILL NEVER LEAK!!!

woot.

j/k  :nananana:
Click to expand...
  You got it!!  :great:
 
Hi All,

New here and enjoying the forum's content for C10.  I wasn't going to post until AFTER I bought a C10, but do have one question prior to finding/buying. 

Is there a tell tale sign that a bike has previously hydro-locked and incurred engine damage? If so, what are the signs to be aware of?

I can imagine trying to talk a seller into letting me "do a hydro-lock check" on their bike with Steve's long screwdriver/washer test.  "Um, you want to do what to my bike before you buy it?"  LOL

I'm actually OK with informing an uniformed seller about the possibility of hydro-lock engine damage and explaining the simple test, but what a request from a stranger/buyer (me) of a seller, you know? (Not to mention the work to remove covers,tank etc on someone else's bike)

Anything I buy, 95% of the time, is very long term.  If I find the right C10 I want to insure I have a great bike to enjoy for many years without having to repair engine damage, hours after getting it home for the first time.

Looking for any advice or real life experience with this scenario!
 
Josh, I have checked a number of "to be purchased" connies for hydrolock. I have not encountered an owner who would not allow it. esp if they realize you are serious about buying. If they won't let you do the test, move on, it's not the bike for you. Steve
 
Steve,
Thanks for the quick reply!  Of the number "to be purchased" how many did you find that had suffered engine damage? Is this something in the neighborhood of 10%?  I'm guessing its low, but still very curious.

Also, if I have the correct tools with me how long to perform the test soup to nuts? (Significant mechanical background, but don't feed my family by wrenching)

Much appreciated.
 
I'm also curious about the prevalence of hydrolock.  Would you experienced COGers test any used C10 for hydrolock before buying, even if it seemed to run perfectly?  I'm looking for a C10 for my next ride, but torn between all the reports of 100k+ bikes and all this talk of hydrolock...

Steve, after watching your hydrolock test video (thank you for posting, btw!) I'm struck with the following question: is it that important to tap the starter to get pistons #1 and #4 close to TDC? It seems that any old position would do, since what we're concerned with finding is only difference between the piston pairs.  Not tapping the starter could mean leaving the ignition coils in place, thus a less invasive experience for the incredulous seller.



 
When I bought Mae I knew nothing of this whole hydrolock business. I do now and would NEVER buy another Connie without doing the test. If the bike is in good shape and doing this test is the only thing stopping a a seller from $3000... they will let you do the test. I just sold my Rebel. I knew the bike was in good shape so if the buyer wanted to do a hydrolock test or whatever, I was all for it.

And I did the rebuild kit on my petcock last week. followed the instructions on Murphs and went in without a hitch. Was about an hour job from beginning to end. Now my reserve works. w00t!
 
The only reasons I can think of to do it at TDC is it should be "slightly" more accurate in that position and the tool used to measure depth would not have to be as long as it would have to be if the pistons were all the way down.
 
I bought a threaded rod, 2 nuts, and a fender washer from Lowes. Didn't care where the pistons were in the head. Only cared that 1 and 4 matched and 2 and 3 matched. So to adjust the fender washer...

1. stick the rod in the spark plug hole
2. have the fender washer sit on top of of the spark plug hole
3. Take the nut and spin it on top of the fender washer.
4. take rod out and don't lose the fender washer.
5. take the second nut and spin that underneath the fender washer

Now the washer is adjusted precisely for the next piston. Adjust accordingly for the next set.

the hardest part is just getting to where you can do the test. The rest is cake.
 
Hazy said:
I bought a threaded rod, 2 nuts, and a fender washer from Lowes. Didn't care where the pistons were in the head. Only cared that 1 and 4 matched and 2 and 3 matched. So to adjust the fender washer...

1. stick the rod in the spark plug hole
2. have the fender washer sit on top of of the spark plug hole
3. Take the nut and spin it on top of the fender washer.
4. take rod out and don't lose the fender washer.
5. take the second nut and spin that underneath the fender washer

Now the washer is adjusted precisely for the next piston. Adjust accordingly for the next set.

the hardest part is just getting to where you can do the test. The rest is cake.
Click to expand...

Ooooo..... I really like your idea!  I used the wooden dowel w/ a piece of tube method but it's kind of a PITA...  This seems MUCH slicker...  Only question I have is when you do the second of the pair (1/4, 2/3), how do you know that you have reached "down" to the actual top of the piston if you've tightened the washer from both sides (even gently)?  Assuming you loosen the top washer, so that it can have the rod drop down further (heaven forbid that one is bent), that would show if that piston is lower.. But if it's higher but by only a mm or 2, will it be obvious by where the washer sits?  It can only move down to the top of the bottom nut. 

Sorry, maybe I'm missing something.  =(
 
uhhh, not that I know anything, but maybe the tool, the way I set it up, has a purpose? Maybe I've taken variables into consideration? Sure you can do the whole threaded rod thing, but it sets up more questions than it answers. Stick with simple...I'm a simple man.  ;) Steve
 
All my pistons were right where they needed to be so I didn't have to worry about adjusting for the the piston being lower than the other. I could feel the bottom of the rod touch the piston with the washer set.

this worked for me. I'm sure SISF's tool is the way to go.
 
Hazy - your tool is fine to go,  I understand the concept - you understand the concept - but not everyone understands the concept. Your tool would be more accurate than mine, but if the user isn't a "tool" person, they could be easily flabergasted. I've found when dealing with a large cross section of public, things that are second nature for me are just waaay to much for others.  The reason for the sliding tubing is that if you were to check the high piston first (of a set with a bent rod) then went to the short rod, you'ld be able to push the rod down and see the tube move. that tells you things aren't the same right off. With yours, the user might not touch the piston because the washer stops it, and they wouldn't get a true reading. HTH, Steve
 
Damn had the dreaded hydrolock last  weekend....In my 17 year old lawn mower...Pulled the plug and pumped the fuel out.  Cleaned carb, oil change....Briggs and Strattons just keep on running.  Lucky I guess on my 99 Connie.  Never a problem.........
 
Tom said:
Just bought a 2001 C10 with 9200 miles.  Been sitting in the previous owners garage, infrequently ridden.  He didn't have an owners manual to give me.  No big deal I thought.

Anyways, I buy it and ride it home about 40 miles, feeling happy and carefree!  It's getting dark and I turn the fuel petcock to what I thougt was "off".  I'm in the house reading online about my new ride, when I discover to my horror, that 3 hours earlier I had turned the petcock to prime... and to add insult to injury, as I grab a flashlight and head outside (its 10:30 pm now) there was gas leaking from #2 carb.

Now, at this point I was about to start the bike to clear what I thought was a just flooded carb.  But I didn't start it, feeling I would wait until the morning instead.  WOW, am I glad I waited!!  Cause it was at this point I ran into COG and read about hydrolock... and joined the site!!  The 50 dollar membership saved my engine!!!  :)
Click to expand...

Hey Tom I did the exact same thing as you, my previous two bikes had on, off and reserve.  So the first thing I did when I bought my bike like two weeks ago was switch it to what I thought was on which ended up being prime.  Unlike you I hadn't read this thread yet and I drove around like that for two days.  While riding I did smell fuel and wondered what that was all about but at NO time did I hear or feel anything that would indicate a hydraulic lock in the cylinders.

I don't mean to make light of this issue or this thread but I think there might be a little bit of paranoia in owners when it comes to this issue.  I'm not a motorcycle mechanic or an engineer but I find it very hard to believe that Kawasaki would design a bike that would essentially self destruct the first time a noob rider misunderstand their confusing petcock design.

Just a thought.  ;)
 
No of course they didn't but now these bikes are getting old and some parts are failing as is the case with any bike this old. In this case, if the carb float valve fails AND either the petcock is left on prime, or the petcock ALSO fails to seal then you are set up for a hydrolock. If you hit the starter button when there is a puddle of gas sitting on one or more pistons, you are likely to have damage from hydrolock. And if there is gas coming out of the carb(s) or air-box, there could be that puddle of gas in the cylinder.

So as you can see, a perfectly functioning bike will not hydrolock, it takes two failures.
 
so then no update is really required of the existing parts.  Simply replacing the old petcock with a brand new one would eliminate the problem for another 20 to 30 years.  I'll talk to the dealer about ordering a new one on Monday.
 
This hydra-lock thing still has me very puzzled and a little skeptical.  Wouldn't the manufacturer of the fuel petcock have designed it to fail closed to fuel flow and not open?  That just makes no sense to me.
 
Blue86 said:
I don't mean to make light of this issue or this thread but I think there might be a little bit of paranoia in owners when it comes to this issue.  I'm not a motorcycle mechanic or an engineer but I find it very hard to believe that Kawasaki would design a bike that would essentially self destruct the first time a noob rider misunderstand their confusing petcock design.

Just a thought.  ;)
Click to expand...

Hmmm, OK. Paranoia. Have you seen my video? 3 engines that hydrolocked are represented in it.
1) the one the bent rod came from;
2) The one that shoots gas on me
3) the 05 engine with 2 bent rods.
  So you're brand new to the bike, haven't read the multitude of guys with bent rods posting here, you're not a mechanic but you've determined we have paranoia? that you're sceptical of the collective knowledge of a motorcycle that has been amassed for 27 years? ? OK blue 86, rock on. BTW, have you done a hydrolock rod test on your bike yet? Maybe you don't really want to know the answer - but I think you ought to reconsider your psychological diagnosis of paranoia until you have some facts to diagnose with. Steve
 
I wasn't trying to make light of hydraulic lock, when it does happen I understand it's pretty much end of the riding season until you get it fixed.  The only point I was trying to make Steve is after reading quite a few posts on this forum I think there's a little bit of fear mongering going on.  Which is hard to avoid seeing as it's so prevalent in western society.  In fact I'll have to look back but in one post you made Steve, you yourself commented on how rare of an event it actually is.  So you tell me?    :truce:
 
Steve said:
To the folks who seem "scared", I've seen many many Connies with over 100K miles (and several hitting 200K miles), and I've yet to see one with hydrolock.

Not scientific stats by any means, but just something to ponder.

I was a HONDA fan for reliability until I saw the mileage this COG outfit is getting.  Now my Kawasaki has 70K on it in 3 years and wow, I haven't even adjusted the throttle cable or idle on it yet.  But it eats tires and brake pads like mad
icon10.gif
Click to expand...

Ahhh this is the post I was thinking about, wrong Steve.  My bad.  :beerchug:
 
Well, here's the issue on "fear mongering" then I'll say no more. When the rod bends, the engine is ruined. And it's something that can be easily prevented with minimum expense. I guess you need to decide your tolerance for ruining your engine vs a small effort to avoid it. Steve
 
WillyP said:
What you do want to do is periodically pull the fuel line off the petcock, with the motor not running. No gas should drip from the petcock in either the on or reserve positions.
Click to expand...

This is a good idea, gonna try this when I finally get my bike back from the Stealer.
 
My suggestion is you become a COG member and spend some time on this board and learn who is who before questioning folks that collectively have 100+ years of experience on this bike.

That's what I've done. and haven't had a single problem with Mae when following the advice of COGGER's that have more experience than I.

:great:
 
Guess I got started on the wrong foot here, haha, oh well wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last.

Let me reintroduce myself as not being completely without mechanical skills.  I'm a nationally certified red seal heavy duty mechanic.  I question everything and everyone including those who more often than not have more education and experience than me.  It's how I learn and I never take things at face value.  I guess if that makes me a trouble maker, I'm a trouble maker.

:-X
 
99 KRIDER said:
Damn had the dreaded hydrolock last  weekend....In my 17 year old lawn mower...Pulled the plug and pumped the fuel out.  Cleaned carb, oil change....Briggs and Strattons just keep on running.  Lucky I guess on my 99 Connie.  Never a problem.........
Click to expand...

i had same issue in the old murray. its a single cyl but if it was a 4 or even a two cyl then i can see where damage could occur. i had to replace the head gasket and needle in carb and also put in a manual shut off valve. its a 17 yr old mower too.i
 
Blue86 said:
Guess I got started on the wrong foot here, haha, oh well wouldn't be the first time, won't be the last.

Let me reintroduce myself as not being completely without mechanical skills.  I'm a nationally certified red seal heavy duty mechanic.  I question everything and everyone including those who more often than not have more education and experience than me.  It's how I learn and I never take things at face value.  I guess if that makes me a trouble maker, I'm a trouble maker.

:-X
Click to expand...

really? and your bike is at the dealers for work?

Oh yes, you did say you were not a mechanic or an engineer.

Then you say you're a  "nationally certified red seal mechanic"

So which is it? Is honesty a problem here?

Trust me, I question everything too. That's why I rip it apart and study things for myself. But I have to say that I'm really taken aback by a "nationally certified red seal mechanic" who would even suggest cynicism that a manufacturer could produce a faulty design.

BTW, Kawasaki DID address the potential hydrolock damage by installing a clutched starter gear in the subsequent zx11, gpz11 and zrx engines that are direct decendents of the zg1000 engine (which is a decendent form the gpz900 engine). In the event of a hyfrolock, the gear slips and mitigates building any more cylinder pressure. UNFORTUNATELY they did not install said gear in the 91 up zg1000 engines, which would have left hydrolock damage a moot point. I did install one in my 1109, but as it's the very first part to be installed in the case, it's not practical as a pre-emptive repair on a non-damaged engine.  Steve
 
Blue86 said:
I'm not a motorcycle mechanic or an engineer but I find it very hard to believe that Kawasaki would design a bike that would essentially self destruct the first time a noob rider misunderstand their confusing petcock design.
Click to expand...

I believe I said I wasn't a motorcycle mechanic.  I've never worked on motorcycles because the last two I owned were newer Honda's that never broke down.

I don't have a garage at home and I don't want to leave my bike in pieces at my place of employment where I am the shop manager, I think that would provide a poor example to the rest of my mechanics.

I have not lied sir.

You're right in that I shouldn't be surprised that a manufacturer had a design defect, not designing in factory overflow tubes was also an oversight for sure.  I should hope it wasn't an intentional one.
 
Blue,
In all likelihood leaving off the overflow tubes was intentional. This is due to the same group of people that exist in all manufacturing. These people are affectionately called the bean counters. They say no-way to anything that does not make the product more functional for free or less! Chrysler had tranny problems for many years because it was cheaper to use a plastic servo piston in their front wheel drive trannies. This saved them several pennies per vehicle! it also ended up costing them millions in warranty claims. Surprise! the replacement parts are made of aluminum, the way they should have been from the start.
On the connie carbs, there was no issues with hydrolock for many years and even then it took more than 1 failure point to cause it. No manufacturer would have gone that far to prevent something that far down the road.
Matt
 
mattchewn said:
On the connie carbs, there was no issues with hydrolock for many years and even then it took more than 1 failure point to cause it. No manufacturer would have gone that far to prevent something that far down the road.
Matt
Click to expand...

+1. total Agreement. I've never heard of a hydrolock in the first few years, while the bike was in warranty. Unfortunately the c-10 was dicontinued 7 years ago, and the extended warranty was max of 6 years. you do the math... Steve
 
Now that I think back about when I first got home with my bike and accidentally left the petcock in the prime position for 2 days fuel did leak out of somewhere and kill a small portion of my grass.  I'm gonna have to take a closer look at my Connie when I finally get it back from the Stealer.  It might already have overflow tubes installed.  Who knows what was done to it during its 27 year life.  I only just noticed it has a Rifle windshield.
 
I'm a little unsure of getting into this discussion.
But I thought of something that might shed a litle light.

My thought is; Kawasaki installed the Vacuum Operated Petcock and removed the overflows because of human error, to decrease emissions, and as a safety measure.....
They did not do this to cause a problem.

Kawasaki added the Vacuum operated Petcock as a way to prevent the fuel from overflowing.
  (Before the vacuum Operated Petcock, people were supposed to turn the petcock to the off position).
      Many didn't turn their gas off, and the gas could overflow.

Along with the Old Style Petcocks, the carbs had overflows.
      With the vacuum operated Petcock, the overflows were no longer needed, and it cut down on emissions...

Someone will now ask why we would install overflows that might leak onto the floor.
The simple answer is Hydrolock.  (The overflows are a positive way to prevent hydrolock).
The overflow tubes are one answer to prevent hydrolock.
If you choose not to do this because of possible gas leakage, is something that has to be determined by the individual.

I've had hydrolock on 3 Connies. Luckily I only damaged 1 engine.
I have not yet installed the overflow tubes.
But I always store my bike on the centerstand, and I religiously look for gas leakage prior to cranking my bike...
And I regularly rebuild my petcock...

Ride safe, Ted

 
BlueTroll said:
if raw gasoline were to make it into the cylinders wouldn't it leak past the rings and into the crankcase?
Click to expand...
yup

First thing is clear the cylendar, second is check for bent rod, third is change oil.
 
If the petrol tap leaks and you have a stuck float valve, then fuel will continue to flow until you try to start the motor and hydraulic lock it, or all the fuel from the tank has passed through !
So yes the petrol can get past the rings - but it is constantly replaced by fresh fuel until none remains or you find the problem.
 
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