Controversial Break In Method- a MUST read

[elektradw]

Here is one that can be debated forever. You SHOULD think out of the box sometimes. This is the way I broke in my new C14. Luckily it only had 1 mile on the odometer when I took delivery. Ran it according to these instructions and changed the oil at 20; 250; 600 using Kawi Premium 10/40. I will probably stay with this oil and change every 3000. I think this article will create quite a response in this forum. Can't wait. Must read.

http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm

 

[SuperBee]

Makes sense to me and the logic is fairly plain and simple.  Generally speaking, technology comes before information.  The newer engine build information is just now finding its way to the masses and eventually the manufacturers will change their specs.  I'm in the ride it hard first category.  If it breaks, well...I'll deal with it then.

Thanks for the article.

SB

 

[Cap'n Bob]

Just for thought on this. Yamaha doesn't have a break in program on the FJR. Just ride it! 

 

[BJ_CT]

Basically, I did exactly the same thing (read mototune web site and serveral others) but only to the extent possible.  Way too populated here to really get on and off it too much but did when I could.  Anyway, I use Kawi oil too (and the filter), changed at 70 miles, 200 miles (changed differential oil here too) and 600 mile dealer check and change every 3K or so.  12K and counting and NO oil use between changes.  Will change diff oil again sometime between now and 15K (waiting for inspiration to strike).  Whenever it goes in for the valve check, will also change out brake and clutch fluids.  That's my plan.

 

[Fred H.]

This is VERY BAD ADVICE and I would recommend you NOT do this to your brand new motorcycle. It only takes into account the piston rings, as if that is the only item on the engine that is breaking in.  It totally ignores all the bearing surfaces for the crankshaft, cams, and transmission. There is a very good reason why Kawasaki tells you not to exceed 4K RPM for the first 500 miles. It is to prevent hot spots and uneven wear from occurring on bearing surfaces. You even run the risk of spinning a bearing if you run the engine RPM too high before the bearings have all seated in.

 

[Cap'n Bob]

I don't advocate the take it out a beat on him theory. But I also don't truly agree with the baby it theory either. I'm a little more in the middle of run it. But don't keep beating on it it either. 

 

[necron99]

Let the controversy begin! 

I've read that article.  Not sure I buy it, but I'm not a guru by any means.  So I'll stick with a bit more sedate break in.  I've broken in two brand new Kawasakis in my life, yes only two... and last I heard my old 91 1100 Ninja is still on the road, so I don't think I did TOO badly.  But I didn't completely baby either of them, but I certainly didn't flog the donkey either.

 

[mkorn]

i dont think i beat on mine ... but there was no way i could keep it under 4k for the first 500 miles.
most of the time it stayed under ... but. 

 

[tjhess74]

the guy is either a genious or a mad man...a fine line between either.  ive been to his site before and have mixed thoughts.  perhaps we are all just hung up on the 'old way' of doing things.  just like modern cars dont need a warm up period like they used to.  now its start it, wait no more than thirty seconds (if its cold out) and roll on...

in my personal experience, i havent seen demo bikes or rental cars bite the dust any earlier than a vehicle that was babied, so maybe there is something to it.

 

[wmathi]

Does not seem like a good idea. Fred is right in that there are more things to consider then just the rings. Although, tighter tolerances are being held, *&it happens ( Plt. Supr. of a machine shop).

I cannot see that running a machine at a reasonable pace, 80mph 4k rpm, could hurt it. I do see posts that have said the steering head have been loose, I had a broken inner cowl, and other posts that would lead me to believe a break-in period is not out of order.

I also got to thinking (I have already been told that is not a good thing). When Toyota had the brake / gas pedal issues, they looked at the computer and could get data as to what was going on with the vehicle at the time of incident. That leads me to the question, If you blow your motor can Kawasaki see how you treated your engine? Would you have a Warranty?

I am surely not a preacher, I did try to follow break-in, yes, there were a few glitches with that. Also oil changed at 400 miles and then 1250 (long trip). I also did not use Kawasaki oil, I used Castrol 10-40w. I'll do my own servicing.

My 2cents

I am no expert, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express

Bill

 

[bergmen]

This is VERY BAD ADVICE and I would recommend you NOT do this to your brand new motorcycle. It only takes into account the piston rings, as if that is the only item on the engine that is breaking in.  It totally ignores all the bearing surfaces for the crankshaft, cams, and transmission. There is a very good reason why Kawasaki tells you not to exceed 4K RPM for the first 500 miles. It is to prevent hot spots and uneven wear from occurring on bearing surfaces. You even run the risk of spinning a bearing if you run the engine RPM too high before the bearings have all seated in.

When I bought my 1979 Yamaha XS-1100F in the fall of 1978, the factory final test procedure for every motorcycle was to operate at wide open throttle on a dynamometer for 30 seconds to record engine output. Those motorcycles which did not measure up were returned to the engine line for repair.

If an engine is going to be damaged with this type of treatment, this is when it is going to occur. This was over 30 years ago. Mine ran perfectly for 56,000 miles.

Dan

 

[Mininsx]

That article's been around for a long time, and I don't agree with him. Here's my take: Who knows more about breaking in an engine, the engineers who designed, built and have to stand behind their work (warranty claims) or some guy who posts on the internet? I've gone by the owner's manual and oil change/maintenance schedule for years and have had no problems whatsoever with any bike I've owned.

 

[Cap'n Bob]

That article's been around for a long time, and I don't agree with him. Here's my take: Who knows more about breaking in an engine, the engineers who designed, built and have to stand behind their work (warranty claims) or some guy who posts on the internet? I've gone by the owner's manual and oil change/maintenance schedule for years and have had no problems whatsoever with any bike I've owned.

But if you admittedly haven't tried the other method. How do you know that you would have a problem that would effectively make the article wrong? Just because you haven't had a problem going the more conservative way, doesn't necessarily mean that it's the right way. Or that the other way is the wrong way. It only means that you just haven't had a problem doing things that way!
And not all the motorcycle manufacturer's have these Conservative break in instructions. I'm sure that Kawasaki isn't the only manufacturer that knows how to build and engine! 

 

[BJ_CT]

Where's that smiley face munchin' the popcorn when you need him???

 

[tjhess74]

arent most, if not all, new bikes run on a dyno at the factory at a wide open?  i remember seeing some pics of recently new bikes at the end of the assembly line being done like that.  if its true, then it cant be all that bad.

either way, a gain/loss of 2%-10% doesnt dissuade or entice me at all, as i am not a racer.  i would never feel that difference on the street under mature riding circumstances.  even when i let loose, i probably still wouldnt notice it!

 

[Cap'n Bob]

Where's that smiley face munchin' the popcorn when you need him???

Yeah, I really like the popcorn guy. He and the ROTF guy are probably by far my two favorites!

 

[ddtmoto]

I read a lot of break in info over the years. I work at my dealer and got to set mine up. For my ZG I took it out of the box and loaded the motor from moment one. Not beat it, but load it, on and off the throttle. I rev'ed it through the gearbox and enjoyed it. I did not follow the rev limit in the book. And my bike hauls. It is great. 19k miles and all is great....enjoy

 

[Fred H.]

Where's that smiley face munchin' the popcorn when you need him???

Yeah, I really like the popcorn guy. He and the ROTF guy are probably by far my two favorites!

 

[daveOinPa]

changing oil at 20,250 and 600 miles is a big waste IMO
My wifes honda cars  dont  even want factory  oil replaced  till 6-7000 miles.
I really dont see much difference in the motors.

 

[elektradw]

In answer to Fred_Harmon's reply about bearing break in. The is NONE Fred! All bearings are made to ride on a film of high pressure oil and there is NO metal to metal contact while the engine and trans are running. If you have a tight bearing that would require fitting you have a bad engine that needs to be fixed. Connecting rod and main engine bearings have three layers: metal outer for spring tension and fit; copper middle; and babbit inner layer that is only a couple of thousandths of an inch thick. The babbit layer captures metal particles in its very soft material. If the bearing wore in as you predict that babbit layer would be gone and the bearing would be toast. The polished look of a bearing race is achieved when the protective coating is washed away by the hot oil. Best to read the follow up article to get a real picture of what is going on with bearings in an engine, it is quite fascinating and something every enthusiast should read. Find it here:

http://mototuneusa.com/power_news_--_circular_logic.htm

you may have to sign in (for free) to get to this page. Other topics to read: A 4 cycle engine is really and 8 cycle engine, find out why.

 

[elektradw]

BTW, motorcycle engineers are sometimes motorcycle riders, occasionally motorcycle racers, rarely motorcycle wrenches, extremely rarely ever work in the race pits building race engines. That is a different world then looking at a computer screen and tabulating calculations. The real world of racing is all about the smallest detail that could give you the edge for a race team and a circuit schedule where these guys are always under the gun.  This guy McGivern (motoman) builds race engines for factory teams. They take apart and rebuild engines for a living. They see the real time results of procedures and innovations. Read on and get educated instead of assuming what may be the obvious. 2-10 HP may be insignificant to all of us but for a race team it is the difference between going home and going home with the money. Remember all the engineers of Europe once thought the world was flat.

It is not just about the HP increase. If you read the article carefully you notice the attention these guys take to reliability. You can't win a race if the engine fails. When you have a tight piston ring/cylinder seal you get no blowby gasses into the crankcase to contaminate and break down the oil with acids and other by products of combustion. That is what leads to premature engine wear. You also eliminate the possibility of warping the cylinder or scuffing the piston skirt because of heat leakage out of the combustion chamber.

And yes, it is a well known fact that the factories run all engines through a run up at the end of the assembly line. They are taken through the gears and run up to red line several times to ensure the engine was built correctly.

 

[tjhess74]

I read a lot of break in info over the years. I work at my dealer and got to set mine up. For my ZG I took it out of the box and loaded the motor from moment one. Not beat it, but load it, on and off the throttle. I rev'ed it through the gearbox and enjoyed it. I did not follow the rev limit in the book. And my bike hauls. It is great. 19k miles and all is great....enjoy

yea, my wifes old honda said oil change intervals of 7k also.  the main difference between a car and a bike is that the gear box shares that oil and breaks it down much faster than a car engine does.  if the gear box were seperate, then yes they would be the same.  thats why more frequent change intervals are better for bikes, and why shifting gets stiff toward the end of the oils usuable life.

i changed my at 200, then 600, then 2500 when my c14 was new.  the amount of metal flake in the first two changes made me very glad i did it.  it looked like brown pearl paint!

i dont use expensive motorcycle oil, so cost isnt the issue

 

[Mininsx]

That article's been around for a long time, and I don't agree with him. Here's my take: Who knows more about breaking in an engine, the engineers who designed, built and have to stand behind their work (warranty claims) or some guy who posts on the internet? I've gone by the owner's manual and oil change/maintenance schedule for years and have had no problems whatsoever with any bike I've owned.

But if you admittedly haven't tried the other method. How do you know that you would have a problem that would effectively make the article wrong? Just because you haven't had a problem going the more conservative way, doesn't necessarily mean that it's the right way. Or that the other way is the wrong way. It only means that you just haven't had a problem doing things that way!
And not all the motorcycle manufacturer's have these Conservative break in instructions. I'm sure that Kawasaki isn't the only manufacturer that knows how to build and engine! 

Exactly! Why experiment with my brand-new, expensive bike (engine) that I've put my hard-earned dollars in when I've never had a problem going by the owner's manual instructions. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[Cap'n Bob]

That article's been around for a long time, and I don't agree with him. Here's my take: Who knows more about breaking in an engine, the engineers who designed, built and have to stand behind their work (warranty claims) or some guy who posts on the internet? I've gone by the owner's manual and oil change/maintenance schedule for years and have had no problems whatsoever with any bike I've owned.

But if you admittedly haven't tried the other method. How do you know that you would have a problem that would effectively make the article wrong? Just because you haven't had a problem going the more conservative way, doesn't necessarily mean that it's the right way. Or that the other way is the wrong way. It only means that you just haven't had a problem doing things that way!
And not all the motorcycle manufacturer's have these Conservative break in instructions. I'm sure that Kawasaki isn't the only manufacturer that knows how to build and engine! 

Exactly! Why experiment with my brand-new, expensive bike (engine) that I've put my hard-earned dollars in when I've never had a problem going by the owner's manual instructions. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Nope, I can't argue with that! 

 

[Hogboy]

That article's been around for a long time, and I don't agree with him. Here's my take: Who knows more about breaking in an engine, the engineers who designed, built and have to stand behind their work (warranty claims) or some guy who posts on the internet? I've gone by the owner's manual and oil change/maintenance schedule for years and have had no problems whatsoever with any bike I've owned.

Precisely - thank you for saving me all the typing.

Think about it - a guy with a crappy website and zero "clinical trial" evidence vs. teams of engineers from every internal combustion company since Day One (BMW, Mercedes, Ferrari, Japanese cars and bikes, USA auto manufacturers, etc.).

 

[scottbechler]

This is not a secret or anything new. At first glance I thought some one might be implying going "balls to the wall" was good on a new engine, which it is not. The article goes on about break-in procedure needs to be different because hone finishes are finer, clearances tighter etc. 25-30 years ago in tech school, I was instructed short full throttle acceleration in high gear (i.e. moderate engine RPM) contributes to a good break-in. High piston speed should be avoided as it will overheat the rings. And this should not be done with 2 miles on the vehicle, because there is a lot of wear occurring creating hot spots as Fred stated. Maybe after 200 miles. I just grabbed the owners manual out of my 2004 daily driver car. Under Engine Break-in Recommendations it states "Drive moderately during the first 300 miles. After the initial 60 miles, speeds up to 50 or 55 mph are desireable. While cruising, brief full-throttle acceleration, within the limits of local traffic laws, contributes to a good break-in" This is from a Chrysler product. I would be willing to bet GM and Ford have similar wording. The article offers nothing new and controversial in my opinion.

Scott Bechler

 

[daveOinPa]

I read a lot of break in info over the years. I work at my dealer and got to set mine up. For my ZG I took it out of the box and loaded the motor from moment one. Not beat it, but load it, on and off the throttle. I rev'ed it through the gearbox and enjoyed it. I did not follow the rev limit in the book. And my bike hauls. It is great. 19k miles and all is great....enjoy

yea, my wifes old honda said oil change intervals of 7k also.  the main difference between a car and a bike is that the gear box shares that oil and breaks it down much faster than a car engine does.  if the gear box were seperate, then yes they would be the same.  thats why more frequent change intervals are better for bikes, and why shifting gets stiff toward the end of the oils usuable life.

i changed my at 200, then 600, then 2500 when my c14 was new.  the amount of metal flake in the first two changes made me very glad i did it.  it looked like brown pearl paint!

i dont use expensive motorcycle oil, so cost isnt the issue

how would the gearbox degrade the oil ?

 

[danvforce]

I have agree with the writer, I was taught to break it in the way your going to drive it. I grew up in NW Indiana a mile from South Chicago. In 68 I bought my first new car, a 68 Plymouth Barracuda 340 Formula S, with a 4SPD. this car was rated at 271 HP. The first day I had the car I raced a guy in our area that had beaten everyone around there, he had a 67 Chevelle 327 350 hp with a 4spd. When we raced my car had 82 miles on it. I beat this guy by a little over a fender. A couple months later we raced again and I won by 2 car lengths. During the 2 years I had the car I never lost a street race. This was when you could buy any muscle car you wanted for around 4 ,and in the South Chicago area there were alot of muscle cars running around. This car was a real sleeper, when I had it dyno tuned it was pulling 350 hp at the rear wheels. During my 2 years of ownership it never burned any oil and always ran strong. 2 days before I traded it in on AAR Cuda, I had a drag race with a 70 Hemi Cuda and blew his doors off. All I can say is it worked for me, maybe I was lucky or maybe it was just a Freak engine, I know it was fast!!

 

[tjhess74]

how would the gearbox degrade the oil ?

the oil encounters more shearing forces in the gearbox and breaks down faster. by no means am i an oil expert, but thats the nuts n bolts of it. 

 

[shiney]

As the gears mesh together there is a very small "contact" patch. Actually they shouldn't touch if the oil has sufficient hp stuff in it. Synthetic will always work better in a gearbox because the hydrocarbon chains are more uniform to start with.