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Do you have zx14 mufflers?

connie_rider

Member
Member
I think I have a set. Not sure what year (ZX-14 or ZX-14R) they came from.
Will check and get back to you.

Ride safe, Ted
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
These are 2008 ZX-14 mufflers and have cats installed inside.
OD at the exit measures just under 1 3/8" (35 mm). (1.360" / 34.5 mm)
Wall thickness of the tubing is approx. .035".
ID at the exit measures approx. 1.29" (32.7 mm).

Ride safe, Ted
 
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Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
I did some math, based on our conversation.

A 1.25 reducer exit would yield 1.28" surface area (X2 mufflers = 2.56")

A 1.625 reducer exit for a single muffler = 2.07" surface area.

A 1.750 reducer exit for a single muffler = 2.40" surface area.

Remember the 1.3 (rounded up) (x2) exit on the zx 14 supported the factory 160 hp.

1.3 = 1.33" surface area, ( x 2mufflers = 2.66" )

IMO, because there's going to be some flow issues inside the zx header where the air has to divert to one side of the other, that's going to create a certain amount of impediment to flow. That said, IMO, I think a 1.25" reducer outlet would be the way to go. Certainly no larger than my first off the cuff guess of 1.375'. And now you see what I was talking about, the factory knows this stuff, I'm just figuring it out.

Steve
 
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connie_rider

Member
Member
Good discussion. Your idea makes me think.
For the sake of more discussion;

,,,, I think that the flow of the 2008 ZX-14 "mufflers" (with internal Cats) are more restrictive, than the straight thru flow of slip on's.
So, (maybe) the 2 restrictor's (that I would install in my 2 slip -on's) could/should be smaller than 1.25"?

As I recall, you specified a restrictor ID of 1.750" in a Delkevic 4 into 1 header system.
That 1.75" restrictor fits inside the single 2" (??) Delkevic Mid Pipe?
Square area of one 1 3/4" restrictor is 2.413".

NOTE: I have 2 ea. 2" mid pipes on my bike/header system and the muffler exits are 2".
Square area of one 1 1/4" restrictor is 1.228". (x2 is 2.456")


C'mon folks. Join in!
,,,,, My head hurts from all this thinkin', and I need some help!


Ride safe, Ted
 
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kzz1king

Member
Member
Good discussion. Your idea makes me think.
For the sake of more discussion;

,,,, I think that the flow of the 2008 ZX-14 "mufflers" (with internal Cats) are more restrictive, than the straight thru flow of slip on's.
So, (maybe) the 2 restrictor's (that I would install in my 2 slip -on's) could/should be smaller than 1.25"?

As I recall, you specified a restrictor ID of 1.750" in a Delkevic 4 into 1 header system.
That 1.75" restrictor fits inside the single 2" (??) Delkevic Mid Pipe?
Square area of one 1 3/4" restrictor is 2.413".

NOTE: I have 2 ea. 2" mid pipes on my bike/header system and the muffler exits are 2".
Square area of one 1 1/4" restrictor is 1.228". (x2 is 2.456")


C'mon folks. Join in!
,,,,, My head hurts from all this thinkin', and I need some help!


Ride safe, Ted
I smell smoke, anyone else smell smoke ?😄
 

kzz1king

Member
Member
Remember the COG old days, we barnstormed alot, and some very cool bikes and mods were the result. COG has lost the ability to do this anymore.

Steve
It was an attempt at humor pointed at Connierider. You know when you think to hard and smoke comes out your ears😄
I think the ability is still here.
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
It was an attempt at humor pointed at Connierider. You know when you think to hard and smoke comes out your ears😄
I think the ability is still here.
I got it right off, but I lament the old days. The c-10 inspired modification. I talk to many c-14 riders who don't even know how to adjust thier throttle cables. The new bikes are so reliable people don't even know anything about them, so any thought to modify / improve cannot even enter their mind.

Steve
 

2andblue

Member
Member
I got it right off, but I lament the old days. The c-10 inspired modification. I talk to many c-14 riders who don't even know how to adjust thier throttle cables. The new bikes are so reliable people don't even know anything about them, so any thought to modify / improve cannot even enter their mind.

Steve
This machine is rock solid - love it…!

I do believe there is a strong world of farkling happening though and we should not discount this innovation. May not be re-engineering a machine but lots of lighting, electric gadgets, exhaust, windscreen, other modifying happening.

Personal example: My experiment with the Healtech Quickshifter - NEVER going back…! If only everyone knew how easy and flawless the shifting is with technology. When we go riding with others, we have our own performance comparisons, most are single on a C-14 or other machines and shocked we 2-up outrun the other machines consistently. A big piece of the performance difference I see is seamless shifting, no upsetting of the machine, no rolling off the throttle ever.. It is not a race but wow the performance head to head on real world through the gears is awesome!

So yes agreed there is not a lot of major re-engineering, possibly the machine has evolved to the point major innovation is simply not warranted / desired on any mass scale. For example - Supercharge or Turbo I may be interested but >99% not interested.
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
This machine is rock solid - love it…!

I do believe there is a strong world of farkling happening though and we should not discount this innovation. May not be re-engineering a machine but lots of lighting, electric gadgets, exhaust, windscreen, other modifying happening.

Personal example: My experiment with the Healtech Quickshifter - NEVER going back…! If only everyone knew how easy and flawless the shifting is with technology. When we go riding with others, we have our own performance comparisons, most are single on a C-14 or other machines and shocked we 2-up outrun the other machines consistently. A big piece of the performance difference I see is seamless shifting, no upsetting of the machine, no rolling off the throttle ever.. It is not a race but wow the performance head to head on real world through the gears is awesome!

So yes agreed there is not a lot of major re-engineering, possibly the machine has evolved to the point major innovation is simply not warranted / desired on any mass scale. For example - Supercharge or Turbo I may be interested but >99% not interested.
That's cool but it still doesn't encompass my statements. Ive been in the COG since 2005 , and we hit a "heyday" for modifications just after that. 3 of us built different but very cool powerplants previously unseen in the zg world. Jim Snyder developed THE exhaust system. Another member piloted the zrx and zx7 front end conversions. 5" wide rear wheel mods. 4 piston caliper and large rotor mods. Alot of these mods were adopted by other COG members, and you could watch mods "develop" as we spitballed and barnstormed on some very lengthy and involved threads. On an on . Big changes. I don't consider lighting big changes. I don't consider buying something from a company outside of COG as being COG's contribution to the model. I understand what you're saying, but I have a different set of experiences, and I can tell you, it's not the same now. That said, it's really nice to see what Connierider is doing, and I have a mod everyone with an exhaust can benefit from that so far has been completely ignored. In the old days, 50 people would have tried it by now, and given feedback so far, nobody to my knowledge has. That's what I mean, it's different now.

Steve
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Being me (Old and Crotchety), I ain't so Pole-lite.
Back in the old days (when most of you were still wearing diapers) we used to throw out a "What If" on the Forum and brainstorm idea's
on how to make the "What If" work.
We were hoping that some of you would participate in a "What If" discussion.
The first try didn't work, so I'll try again.
NOTE: I'll speak slowly so you can follow along.. <evil grin>

Does this get your attention?
Does - anyone - have - a - C-14 - with - a - Delkevic, - or - Black - Widow - header?
Would - you - like - to - have - more - power/torque? {can - be - done - for - only - $20}

Steve has hit on a idea (and proven it on the Dyno) that helps a bike (that has one of these systems) produce better power.
{Even on a Blue or Silver One} :eek:
NOTE: His idea may even work on a bike that has a Full Area P System, a "stock header system", and/or a slip on.
(No tests have been done on these as we need "someone" to participate in the discussion to work out details...)
Hint hint!!!!!


NOTE: As many of you rookies "may remember", my bike has a ZX-14 Header System with two mufflers.
err; If that confuses you; 🥴 (The number 2 comes after the number 1) 🤣
We're discussing a method of installing Steve's design on my bike. {he needed muffler dimensions to work on some calculations}

NOTE: I know that my bike "is already" faster and prettier than most of yours {bekuz it's RED} but (even I 🤠) want MORE POWAHHhhhh!!

Ride safe, Ted

PS: No, you "Smarty Eleck's" did not smell smoke.
You were blinded by my brilliance and it affected your *sensory organ. (**yer nose)
But, "hopefully" (some of you) "may" have been lucky enough to absorb some smart. {because of all my thinkin' and ponderin'}
(I know that's doubtful, but, it is possible) 😵
<sly grin> 😜
 
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2andblue

Member
Member
That's cool but it still doesn't encompass my statements. Ive been in the COG since 2005 , and we hit a "heyday" for modifications just after that. 3 of us built different but very cool powerplants previously unseen in the zg world. Jim Snyder developed THE exhaust system. Another member piloted the zrx and zx7 front end conversions. 5" wide rear wheel mods. 4 piston caliper and large rotor mods. Alot of these mods were adopted by other COG members, and you could watch mods "develop" as we spitballed and barnstormed on some very lengthy and involved threads. On an on . Big changes. I don't consider lighting big changes. I don't consider buying something from a company outside of COG as being COG's contribution to the model. I understand what you're saying, but I have a different set of experiences, and I can tell you, it's not the same now. That said, it's really nice to see what Connierider is doing, and I have a mod everyone with an exhaust can benefit from that so far has been completely ignored. In the old days, 50 people would have tried it by now, and given feedback so far, nobody to my knowledge has. That's what I mean, it's different now.

Steve
Can the exhaust mod fit the Area P full exhaust? You know what machine I have, you know exhaust I have - I’ll test something, give feedback.

Will not damage my machine or exhaust AS-IS but if something can be fitted, tested otherwise I am in all the way - Let’s Go!
 

Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
Can the exhaust mod fit the Area P full exhaust? You know what machine I have, you know exhaust I have - I’ll test something, give feedback.

Will not damage my machine or exhaust AS-IS but if something can be fitted, tested otherwise I am in all the way - Let’s Go!
It can be fitted to the area p, and I have area p dimensions already and I think it would work great. The problem is I have found a commercially available reducer with the dimensions needed to fit to the area p system.

If you want, measure the midpipe ID where it slips over the last Y of the header. I'll see if you have different #'s and I'll see what I can find.

Steve
 

jim snyder

Member
Member
Good discussion. Your idea makes me think.
For the sake of more discussion;

,,,, I think that the flow of the 2008 ZX-14 "mufflers" (with internal Cats) are more restrictive, than the straight thru flow of slip on's.
So, (maybe) the 2 restrictor's (that I would install in my 2 slip -on's) could/should be smaller than 1.25"?

As I recall, you specified a restrictor ID of 1.750" in a Delkevic 4 into 1 header system.
That 1.75" restrictor fits inside the single 2" (??) Delkevic Mid Pipe?
Square area of one 1 3/4" restrictor is 2.413".

NOTE: I have 2 ea. 2" mid pipes on my bike/header system and the muffler exits are 2".
Square area of one 1 1/4" restrictor is 1.228". (x2 is 2.456")


C'mon folks. Join in!
,,,,, My head hurts from all this thinkin', and I need some help!


Ride safe, Ted
Ted, from what I gather from your description could this process be completed with a restrictor in the muffler (normally where the baffle would be) to accomplish the restriction needed.
 

jim snyder

Member
Member
Steve proved that restricting or controlling the airflow into the airbox of a C-10 vastly improved performance. This exhaust principle works on a similar concept. When I built my Contario exhaust I learned from 100 hours of R&D that smaller headlines produced more torgue and a slight gain in horsepower. For years a large number of riders thought the larger the pipe the more power it would make. For wide open drag racing that might work, but the majority of us don't ride 99% of our riding on a drag strip. The torque and horsepower from 2,000 to 7,000 rpm is where most riding is done. A little back pressure in the exhaust system is not a bad thing. This reducer idea does exactly that. Controlling the flow of exhaust gases is the key in this case. I'm anxious to see the results of this experiment. Thankfully we still have a few mad scientists around willing to mess with the monster to make it dance.
 

2andblue

Member
Member
Steve proved that restricting or controlling the airflow into the airbox of a C-10 vastly improved performance. This exhaust principle works on a similar concept. When I built my Contario exhaust I learned from 100 hours of R&D that smaller headlines produced more torgue and a slight gain in horsepower. For years a large number of riders thought the larger the pipe the more power it would make. For wide open drag racing that might work, but the majority of us don't ride 99% of our riding on a drag strip. The torque and horsepower from 2,000 to 7,000 rpm is where most riding is done. A little back pressure in the exhaust system is not a bad thing. This reducer idea does exactly that. Controlling the flow of exhaust gases is the key in this case. I'm anxious to see the results of this experiment. Thankfully we still have a few mad scientists around willing to mess with the monster to make it dance.
How do we make a reducer (or reliable flapper) that adjusts with flow? Spring loaded plate? I don’t want to lose any high end but interested in low end if possible to enhance - no complaints from my Full AreaP system of losses.
 

2andblue

Member
Member
It can be fitted to the area p, and I have area p dimensions already and I think it would work great. The problem is I have found a commercially available reducer with the dimensions needed to fit to the area p system.

If you want, measure the midpipe ID where it slips over the last Y of the header. I'll see if you have different #'s and I'll see what I can find.

Steve
I’ll pop the system apart later this week get you dims.
 

jim snyder

Member
Member
How do we make a reducer (or reliable flapper) that adjusts with flow? Spring loaded plate? I don’t want to lose any high end but interested in low end if possible to enhance - no complaints from my Full AreaP system of losses.
The reducers they are discussing would probably need to be machined. As I mentioned to Ted awhile ago I think this could also be accomplished thru a cone shaped baffle. I have modified dozens of Delkevic baffles to allow flow for top end and still give enough restriction to increase bottom end as well. But I could never get any of the C-14 folks to comment on that modification. Many Delkevic owners said the stock baffle killed the power and took them out and threw them in their toolbox. Drilling a 1/2" to 3/4" hole in the front cone of the Delkevic baffle can give the best of both worlds.
 

2andblue

Member
Member
The reducers they are discussing would probably need to be machined. As I mentioned to Ted awhile ago I think this could also be accomplished thru a cone shaped baffle. I have modified dozens of Delkevic baffles to allow flow for top end and still give enough restriction to increase bottom end as well. But I could never get any of the C-14 folks to comment on that modification. Many Delkevic owners said the stock baffle killed the power and took them out and threw them in their toolbox. Drilling a 1/2" to 3/4" hole in the front cone of the Delkevic baffle can give the best of both worlds.
As eluded I have grown fond of the higher end where tremendous power and engine braking is prevalent. Prior to the quick-shifter I stayed away from higher end shifts, not quite as smooth as I’d like, but now smooth as butter seamless power.

If I’m running at 4K that’s a lower RPM or cruising RPM for us. If playing we are more between 6K - 10K. This engine is terrific! Previous stock exhaust top end - mehhh.
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Jim, Not sure if it would work at the rear of the Muffler.
As I understand it, it must be installed near the inlet of the Mid Pipe.
NOTE: I'm not speaking for him. Just guessing. Steve will have to provide the details.

Turbo, I've seen the Dyno Plots on the Black Widow mod and was impressed.
It's not mind altering, but really did smooth/increase the torque in the low/mid RPM's, and also adds a bit on the top. (Win/Win)
I think he has located commercially available Reducer's to fit in both the Black Widow and the Delkevic.

Blue; If it doesn't work out for you, it can be removed easily. (Nothing is modified on the header system)
As I understand, he hasn't found a commercially available Reducer that fit's easily in the Area P. (Yet)
Hoping one can be found that would fit with only some simple mods.
After he gets the numbers, he can give you the info you need to purchase and modify one.

On my bike, I would need 2 reducers, and that is making things more difficult to figure out.
ie: We think that I have to restrict both mufflers "quite a bit more" that a single muffler {as I have so much more flow area}.
We're pretty close on the dimensions.

In all cases: Remember that this is a work in progress and may require some fine tuning. (as he works out details)

Ride safe, Ted
 
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jim snyder

Member
Member
Summit racing has some. Not sure what all different sizes they carry.
 

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Steve in sunny Fla

Iron Butt
Industry Vendor
Here's a link to the thread in my Shoodaben area. It's been hit over 800 times, nobody here has actually done it except for Justin Bowman.

Steve


 

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connie_rider

Member
Member
If you do the modification, I suggest that you find a Buddy and do a Roll-on (before and after) comparison with him.
Here is a discussion on how to do so.

Report your results here, and/or at the Roll-on Discussion.

Ride safe, Ted
 
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