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Getting the C14 to handle like a sportbike?

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Is it possible? Probably not. However, is it possible to get it to turn like one?  Assuming PR3's are on the bike, has anyone tired to change the geometry?  Even dropping the front 3mm makes a difference on every bike I've owned.  I was thinking that switching to the 55 rear and dropping the front an equal amount would be a great place to start.

I only ask because I am trying very hard to not get a new 14R and then modify the piss out of it for 2 years instead of having it all ready to go off the showroom floor.  I modified my CBR1100XX for touring and it took years to get it right.  Wondering if I should go down that road again or just give up certain things to be on something that was actually designed for touring.
 
The C14 is never going to turn like a sport bike no matter what you do. Yes you can make it turn better. But it is a 700lb motorcycle that also has a longer wheel base than a sport bike. The C14 is a sport tour. It will turn decent and run right along. But the fact is that even a ZX14 or a Blackbird is never going to turn like a sport bike. If you have such a need for speed and sport bike handling. You should probably by a ZX10. And modify that to suit your needs. It sounds like you would never be happy having a fast, well handling tour bike.  ;)
 
I love the 55 series rear tire on my 08. It made a significant difference in the way the bike felt.  I also tried dropping the forks 5mm.  I ended up moving them back to the stock position.  One significant handling difference was removing the bags when not needed.  I may put those back on as my wife needs something to kick.  A lower seat also helped more than I would have believed. 

I think its like Bob said, due to it weighing so much.  But my question became can I make it handle "good enough" in the slow stuff.  I had an sv650 with modified suspension, brakes, and anything else I could think of.  and it was amazing in the canyons.  The problem being the canyons are 20 miles away from me, so it was at least a 40 mile round trip to get there.  As good as the sv was in the canyons, it was equally as bad on the freeways. Not bad, really, just not the c14.  Plus, the seating position was ridiculous.  Uncomfortable unless it was in its element.

For me, the trade off to get through the hairpin a little faster was not worth the effort of getting the bike to the canyon.  I sold the sv and have not missed it. 

 
Yep, lower bars and '55' rear tire. Leave the cargo boxes home. This thing hauls for a nearly seven hundred pounder....its not like my gixxer, but a wonderful mile eater that, set up right, is very entertaining in the twisties. More work than a lighter shorter relica racer, but so much fun shreading tires on this one too....
 
Maybe our definition of a sportbike differes.  An XX or ZX14 is absolutely a sportbike IMO.  That's all I after and still, I would buy a C14 fully aware of it's size and heft.  I just want to make it handle as well as possible.

LSL bars really make that much of a difference?  I guess I don't understand since the bars are already upright, are they wider?
 
Ryan, I think what your asking for is achievable, for the most part.  I hope to find out as my next wallet full of extra money (LOL) will be for suspension improvement.  Even though the stock forks and shock on the c14 are great, they only rate great on a stock streetbike scale.  A A good shock and some fork valving changes would make a difference.  Still, that 55 series rear tire is well worth trying.
 
RyanP said:
Maybe our definition of a sportbike differes.  An XX or ZX14 is absolutely a sportbike IMO.  That's all I after and still, I would buy a C14 fully aware of it's size and heft.  I just want to make it handle as well as possible.

LSL bars really make that much of a difference?  I guess I don't understand since the bars are already upright, are they wider?
Click to expand...

I guess some of our opinions do differ...  :beerchug: The bike on the left IS a sportbike... The bike on the right is a freakin' land rocket! There's no way I could throw the XX around like I did the old Duc... In the same vein... I can't throw the C14 around like I did the XX... Did I mention that I RAELLY do miss the XX...  :(

Dynamic%2520Duo.JPG


If I ever decide to get a another (second) bike... I'd sure like to find my old 'bird...
 
RyanP said:
Can you think of any good comparison's off the top of your head between your bird and the C14?
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Sure... The C14 has more open ergonomics. I had Buell pegs and VFR bars on the bike and the position was still pretty cramped. Even with an aftermarket screen, you're still in the wind. Which happens to help as it helps hold your torso up. The XX is still a big bike (wheelbase) just narrower. The C14 suspension is better out of the box. I'm fairly convinced that USD forks have more going for them than the standard forks. The XX accelerates like a freakin' rocket. Granted the C14 ain't no slouch, but the XX thrills... That's why it and the Busa were called hyperbikes. The bird really works best if you the rider is in good to excellent shape because you really are "part of the bike". The bird is more nimble as it should be... The bike is slimmer and the aerodynamics are better.

The 'Bird and the C14 are my two most favorite bikes, but my body (and all the abuse I have heaped on it over the years) really prefers the comfort/ergos of the C14. And as an aside... The old Duc (over bored to 944 cc and flatsides) was a hoot. Truly a blending of an and machine... But that beast beat the crap outta me. A weekend of E ticket rides on the old Italian Stallion ment a week of Soaking in a tub and popping Ibuprophin like they were M&Ms. It really shined on the track... Was probably the best bike to take a riding school on. The Ricky Racers would kill me on the long starights, but it was SO much fun reeling them in in the turns...

I think that's why I think the Suzuki GXR750 is just aboout the perfect sportbike... It just does so many things so well. 
 
RyanP said:
LSL bars really make that much of a difference?  I guess I don't understand since the bars are already upright, are they wider?
Click to expand...

The bars are wider, lower than stock, and come back closer to me.  The bars are adjustable in that you can rotate them in the clamps to make your grip higher or lower, I chose the lower setting.  On the '09 the bars keep the "glove box" from opening all the way, but I don't use it so it didn't matter.

Scroll down to the 6th row and you will see some pictures of the LSL bars on my bike

http://www.pbase.com/cognosticator/2009_c14&page=all
 
COGnosticat0r said:
RyanP said:
LSL bars really make that much of a difference?  I guess I don't understand since the bars are already upright, are they wider?
Click to expand...

The bars are wider, lower than stock, and come back closer to me.  The bars are adjustable in that you can rotate them in the clamps to make your grip higher or lower, I chose the lower setting.  On the '09 the bars keep the "glove box" from opening all the way, but I don't use it so it didn't matter.

Scroll down to the 6th row and you will see some pictures of the LSL bars on my bike

http://www.pbase.com/cognosticator/2009_c14&page=all
Click to expand...

How can I boil my cup-o-noodles if the glovebox wont open?  I had an LSL kit on my sv650 and it was amazing.  VERY high quality pieces and well though out.  I wish the c14 bars bugged me just  a little more and I woudl get one for it.
 
Unless you stripped the C14 to the bare running hardware, built the engine up with hard parts inside, and basically ruined it as a highly competent, long distance, sport touring bike, it will NEVER compete with an equally skilled rider on a real sportbike like an R1 or a ZX10R or even the heavy ZX14R.

But you can still take one to the track, and get around in good fashion. Just don't expect it to lap as fast as the true sportbikes.

I know guys who say "I was faster than the kid on the R1" and I refer you to my premise. "Equally skilled riders". Stoner could make a C14 go around the track so fast it would be impressive. But then, both in WSB and now MotoGP, he goes much much faster on true race bikes. Which the sportbikes are the homologation of.

I guess since I gave up a highly modified, and truely fast, ZX14 for a Concours 14 for the specific intent of long distance sport touring with full luggage and comfort to boot, and used to take my ZX10R to track days all the time before my joints all gave out on me finally, I just don't understand why anyone cares if the C14 can hang with sportbikes.

But that is just me, if you want to pretend to have a sportbike and a sport touring bike at the same time in the same machine, I think thats great.
 
I feel like the word "sportbike" brings with it all kinds of images completely contradictory of what a C14 is.  I am not interested in "hanging" with sportbikes, but at the same time there is nothing like the feeling of entering a corner on a well set-up sportbike.  And I'm not talking about a 600. I'm talking about the big sportbikes. XX,Busa,14R.

I am torn because I can't decide if I should get a 14R and modify it with all the usual comfort mods, or buy the C14 and enjoy what it does best.
 
Understood, but the bigger and heavier the bike the less nimble... just plain physics.
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There's a lot you can do to improve the handling, but it's still a big bike.
 
well, the suspension can be tweaked and set to make a difference. front springs and valves might help more.
for me, i run with semi spirited riders (when they go, they dust me due to skill and bikes) but it makes for a great long day of riding.
i have the cases on all the time, a ***55*** rear tire (huge difference) more fork oil and less spring up front, sag and stuff set, rear shock tweaked(not replaced and crap adjustments so better but not great)

my bike has been on the track, but thats not my cup of tea. i like the long rides through the country, windy roads, blind corners, hills, cows. not a sweeper guy so i don't blast them, don't like the slow 90's (crap in the road, 15mph, ...)  most of my riding is in south east Wisconsin and i am very pleased with the bike. on the street i don't ride with the crazy all out all the time guys, but the semi spirited that can go fast. (all on sport bikes, couple fjr guys)

i know my skill is not equal to the guys i ride with, bike is much heavier, but 95% of the day i am right there riding my ride.

Sure hope this makes sense. I ride with new zx10, r1, duc and a host of other guys and have a great time. (tires get eaten quickly, have 33k on the bike and looking to mount up #8,  :eek: and im not a throttle junkie )  if i had a zx10 and a c14, dont think they ever could be the same. (springs,valves,rear shock, 55 rear, ?? could close the gap but at what price?? ) i run the 023 stones, very pleased with them!!

Joel
 
I came from a true sport bike to the C14. I'm happier with the C14. It handles more than well enough for what it is on the street. I'm doing a track day with it in July and will have fun dusting the squids but if a rider is even close in talent and skill I have no delusions of being able to stay with him or her. I'm okay with that. You need to be as well if you buy one. I've never owned a Busa or a ZX14 or a Blackbird but I've ridden all three. The C14 is close enough for a street bike at a street pace and that is where you are going to ride it right?
 
Street only for sure.  The thing is, I'm not the greatest rider (can't help but get a little excited on an unfamiliar twisty road) and at least once a season I'll get a little too close for comfort to the other side of the double yellow and tell myself if I was on anything bigger than my XX, I'd be in the other lane.  My only really concern is having a bike nimble enough to save my skin.
 
RyanP said:
Street only for sure.  The thing is, I'm not the greatest rider (can't help but get a little excited on an unfamiliar twisty road) and at least once a season I'll get a little too close for comfort to the other side of the double yellow and tell myself if I was on anything bigger than my XX, I'd be in the other lane.  My only really concern is having a bike nimble enough to save my skin.
Click to expand...

the bike wont save you, abs highly recommended, just miles, some riding school like track days or other skill builders.
not sure how bad or good you are, but the bike will work well. keep in mind, anything can get you in trouble, i have seen people jammed up on a 250.
if you see my post above, i ride with the older fast guys, they have 20-30 years experience and can haul when they want to.  the fjr guys and myself do very well for bigger bikes, but i always ride my own ride, and i set my speed for corner entry based on my bike and skill.

hope this helps and makes sense.
 
I'm one of those old fast guys with over 40 years of riding, always Kawasaki's fastest street bikes until I got off the hamster wheel and got a 2012 Connie.

Let the orthopedic surgeon shoot my knees and back up with steroids, drop a couple of extra pain and anti-inflammatory pills, and give me a ZX10R and I'll walk away from most any Concours 14 with ease. But it will hurt like hell doing it, and I would much rather just ride with the Concours 14 than show it what its weaknesses are.
 
JR said:
I'm one of those old fast guys ..............
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something special about getting smoked by old fast guys and girls , sure helped my ego though  :rotflmao:( never had one, always said i knew girls were faster. lol )
 
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