Group Riding - First Rider Position?

[samridesa2011]

Greetings All,

I was reading on-line the MSF guide to group riding, and I saw something that made me wonder. They have an illustration which shows a staggered position for group riders. BUT, the very first rider position is in the left most part of the lane closest to the center line. No where else in the group riding instructions does it say anything specific about the first rider position, just the suggestion by way of this illustration. (I think the focus of the illustration was to show the staggered positions as well as safe distances between riders.)

I remember an MSF instructor once told me that when riding two or more, you should stagger, but that the first rider should take the part of the lane to the right, closest to the curb. The reason for this is that it gives better vision to the second rider for the road ahead. Further, that oncoming vehicles would see two headlamps and be a better visual warning for approaching traffic.

Whenever I ride with my sons, we always stagger with the lead rider to the right. This has worked well for us for years. Does anyone else have any diverse thoughts on this?

Just curious,

Sam

 

[Victor Salisbury]

Lead rider normaly to the left of the lane. He can see further ahead, and others (particularly side traffic on the right) will see him sooner.

 

[S Smith]

Lead rider normaly to the left of the lane. He can see further ahead, and others (particularly side traffic on the right) will see him sooner.

:iagree:

Exactly...  the lead rider should be in the best position to see ahead and be seen by oncoming traffic.  Riders staggered to the right position provide group visibility to traffic on the right at intersections/driveways.  Riders should maintain a 2 second minimum following distance, although more is better.

Staggered position works well at lower speeds. When the pace is more spirited or the roads are twisty a single line provides more time and space to each rider.

 

[samridesa2011]

Steve and Vic,

I appreciate the input. Your observations make sense, and we will try it differently from here out!

Sam

 

[Victor Salisbury]

I just try to think of shooting for the most visibility to see and be seen. When I'm riding solo, I maintain that left position most of the time.

Like Steve said, the staggered works best for a group.
Now around town "parade" speeds, (10-5ish) side by side mostly allows everyone to stay together. The twisties though, and I try to emphasize this ahead of time, ride your own ride (as always), and ride your own line through the curves. The guy in front of you in the curve may not be going exactly the best way for you to go through that same curve. Do not try to regain the stagger until back to the straight (or straightish) stuff.

 

[S Smith]

I'm not a proponent of any side by side riding. In fact, riding two abreast can be dangerous because it does not allow sufficient time and space to the sides for riders to swerve or change position to avoid a hazard.  The only time 2 abreast makes sense is when coming to a stop at a traffic control signal.

 

[Victor Salisbury]

I'm with you there, it all depends on the area, dynamics, size of the group. Side by side in unique, very slow speed area.  Judgment must be applied.
I'm not comfortable side by side above walking speed.
But, when you start out in town to get going and transverse through multiple lights, it's nice to keep everyone tight. Minimizes splitting of the group and minimize the slingshot effect of everyone trying to go staggered, then side by side at the next light, repeat.  Now if you are starting out on a fairly open stretch of road, get at it staggered 

 

[S Smith]

But, when you start out in town to get going and transverse through multiple lights, it's nice to keep everyone tight. Minimizes splitting of the group and minimize the slingshot effect of everyone trying to go staggered, then side by side at the next light, repeat.

fftopic:
This is a completely separate aspect of group riding dynamics than the question from the OP.  It's interesting that this came up as I am in progress with a group riding safety article.  From the MSF tips on group riding... If you’re separated from the group, don’t panic. Your group should have a pre-planned procedure in place to regroup. Don’t break the law or ride beyond your skills to catch up.   IMHO this implies their position is that keeping a group together is not imperative.

Getting separated is just something we need to deal with when riding with others.  How it is dealt with will have a lot to do with how enjoyable the ride is.  Having a pre-planned procedure is the key, and making sure all riders understand the plan at the rider briefing BEFORE the ride is crucial.  Other things we do: 1) Riders should have a copy of the route, or know where the destination or interim meet point is; 2) It is assumed to stay on the current road/route # until seeing the group turn; 3) Each rider is responsible to make sure the rider behind them knows where the next turn is.

 

[Ranger Jim]

fftopic: In many states, riding abreast is a violation of law. It's also, IMO, NEVER a good idea.

 

[sailor_rich]

I agree with Steve's more is better for riding distance. I just finished a charity ride with over 700 bikes and there were 3 accidents during the ride. 2 from following too close and not allowing enough reaction time and stopping distance. One Lady took the ditch to avoid hitting someone,  with a life threatening leg injury and the other layed it down several bikes back with minor injuries. I've read this 2 second guide with the in front bike and 1 second with the stagard bike. At 55 mph  sure seems like poor recommendation to any rider.

Keep a good bleed preventing field dressing in your vest it might be what's needed to keep you going till the ambulance arrives. I was amazed at the people at the accidents that had nothing to use for first aid.

 

[S Smith]

MSF teaches it as the 2-second Minimum Following Distance, with 1-sec between staggered riders. The emphasis is on minimum, and only when conditions are ideal.... sunny day, no traffic, and most importantly a skilled rider who practices hazard avoidance maneuvers and has 360 degree awareness (with riding buddies who are the same).  Each rider needs to consider what they can accomplish with 2 seconds of space between them and the vehicle in front.  When an immediate hazard presents itself there are two things that can be executed... stop(/slow) or swerve.  BTW - the MSF Group Riding Quick Tips depicts this well in a diagram:
http://msf-usa.org/downloads/Group_Ride.pdf

IMHO the typical rider will probably not be able to avoid hitting an immediate path hazard by braking with a 2-sec following distance. Consider that total stopping distance comprises perception distance (time it takes to process seeing the hazard), reaction distance (time it takes to decide what to do), and braking distance (time it takes to get on the brakes and come to a complete stop).  Clinical testing shows human reaction time is between 190 - 290 milliseconds (approx 1/4 second), with times climbing as high as 1/2 second or more.  With a 2-sec following distance a 0.5 sec reaction time leaves 1.5 second to perceive the hazard and brake to a stop.  It is easy to understand why correct swerving technique is an important skill to learn and practice.