I've run into a snag on a valve adustment and looking for any suggestions. 2008 Concours 14 - all 8 exhaust valves wree out of spec, and 6 of 8 intake valves were at their maximum tightness. I installed new shims (one bucket at a time), put the cams and covers back on (per the shop manual and Fred's video's) , and check the valves again - found to be perfect. Put it back together - will turn over but will not start. I've done the obvious - took the valve cover off again and checked the timing marks, they look perfect. I've check all the electrical for crimped connections, installed new plugs, and made doubly sure that the stick coils are fully seated. I also turned the engine over with the #1 stick coil out and with a plug grounded to the engine - and I don't see any spark. I get no codes. Any suggestions?
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Help on valve adjust and engine won't start
- Thread starter rockgate
- Start date
It sounds like you missed and electrical connector. Check the large connector plugs for the fuel injectors and spark plugs as well as all the smaller ones for the various sensors (cam position, fans, etc.). I suspect you left something unplugged.
Are you getting any FI codes?
Are you getting any FI codes?
Thanks guys. I'm baffled and irratated. Fred - No FI codes; I pushed and held the two dash buttons to be sure. The only electrical plugs that were disconnected in the process were the 4 Stick Coil connectors, the grey multi-ware plug on the engine left side that connects to the white plug air bleed valve sensor, the grey two-wire connector that leads to the exhaust cam sensor. The intake came sensor was pulled out of the left side engine cover but not disconnected. I've checked and rechecked (for hours) the connectors to make sure the male connectors were not bent, and that I got a good snap connect on all. The only other electrical involved in the maylay that I can think of are the crank shaft position sensor which was only disturbed by removing the cover.
The big connections to the fuel injection - now connected to my power commander unit - were never disturbed and I checked to make sure they were still fully plugged. I searched the area behind the engine head where I had the rubber sheeting folded back to make sure nother there was disturbed.
What I have not done is purhcased the metering equipment to check the stick coils, but it seems so remote that they would be damaged by just pulling them out. nor have I checked the cam sensors electrical resistance - again not sure why they'd just quit.
I do have one question - on page 5-16 of the manual for the cam chain tensoner intallation, it states to rotate the cranksaft twice to epand the tensoner (which I did in while rechecking the valve clearance after cam re-installation) , and then says to "recheck the camshaft chain timing". By that do the instructions mean to simply recheck the intake cam EX mark at the 3:00 and the exhaust cam mark at the 9:00 position relative to the top of the engine case with the cranksaft at the 1-4 TDC mark , or is there some other measurement relative to the chain they are suggesting.
The big connections to the fuel injection - now connected to my power commander unit - were never disturbed and I checked to make sure they were still fully plugged. I searched the area behind the engine head where I had the rubber sheeting folded back to make sure nother there was disturbed.
What I have not done is purhcased the metering equipment to check the stick coils, but it seems so remote that they would be damaged by just pulling them out. nor have I checked the cam sensors electrical resistance - again not sure why they'd just quit.
I do have one question - on page 5-16 of the manual for the cam chain tensoner intallation, it states to rotate the cranksaft twice to epand the tensoner (which I did in while rechecking the valve clearance after cam re-installation) , and then says to "recheck the camshaft chain timing". By that do the instructions mean to simply recheck the intake cam EX mark at the 3:00 and the exhaust cam mark at the 9:00 position relative to the top of the engine case with the cranksaft at the 1-4 TDC mark , or is there some other measurement relative to the chain they are suggesting.
It's exactly what you thought they want you to rotate the engine so the cam tensioner will adjust then just make sure it stayed where you put it and didn't jump a tooth. Take your power commander out of the loop and see if anything changes. I would suspect a fi code if that was your problem but I know that connector has given me a problem before.
Just to cover the obvious, did you check the red kill switch on the handlebars?
Another suggestion, did you check all the fuses? Perhaps something blew a fuse when you weren't looking?
In the Troubleshooting Guide on page 17-76 of the FSM, it lists the following things to check for a No Spark condition:
No spark; spark weak:
Vehicle-down sensor (DFI) coming off
Key knob not ON
Engine stop switch turned OFF
Clutch lever not pulled in or gear not in neutral
Battery voltage low
Spark plug dirty, broken, or gap maladjusted
Spark plug incorrect
Stick coil shorted or not in good contact
Stick coil trouble
ECU trouble
Camshaft position sensor trouble
Gear position, starter lockout, or side stand switch trouble
Crankshaft sensor trouble
Steering lock unit or engine stop switch shorted
Starter system wiring shorted or open
Main 30A or ignition fuse blown
Several items in that list are in the area you were working. It would be worthwhile to check them all.
Another suggestion, did you check all the fuses? Perhaps something blew a fuse when you weren't looking?
In the Troubleshooting Guide on page 17-76 of the FSM, it lists the following things to check for a No Spark condition:
No spark; spark weak:
Vehicle-down sensor (DFI) coming off
Key knob not ON
Engine stop switch turned OFF
Clutch lever not pulled in or gear not in neutral
Battery voltage low
Spark plug dirty, broken, or gap maladjusted
Spark plug incorrect
Stick coil shorted or not in good contact
Stick coil trouble
ECU trouble
Camshaft position sensor trouble
Gear position, starter lockout, or side stand switch trouble
Crankshaft sensor trouble
Steering lock unit or engine stop switch shorted
Starter system wiring shorted or open
Main 30A or ignition fuse blown
Several items in that list are in the area you were working. It would be worthwhile to check them all.
Did you reset the cam chain tensioner before reinstalling it? as that will over load the cam chain and put high tension on the cam and crank. ???
I'd look real close at the cam position sensors. I believe that if they don't get the pulse at the right time and send it to the ECU, it won't allow the plugs to fire. If you removed the intake cam position sensor, I'd go back and double check it real good and make sure it's reinstalled correctly and positioned properly.
Fred_Harmon_TX said:
Thanks, this reinforces my suspicions. The intake cam sensor is certainly installed correctly - only one way for it to go and bolt fully seated and torqued. I’ll invest in a circuit tester and test the resistance of both sensors as well as the stick coils. Good thing this is a fun hobby!
C1xRider said:
C1xRider – I did check that list and had focused on the items implicated by what I had changed or disturbed. The kill switch and main 30A fuse – and other items on the list - are ruled out just by the fact the engine turns over with the start button. The vehicle down sensor was not disturbed, plus should reset when the key pass is turned off and back on. I did check all the fuses. Good list though – quantum entanglement doesn’t rule out that one of these guys just failed!
rockgate said:
I figured the 30 Amp main would be fine, but did you check the 10Amp Ignition Fuse? It's in Fuse Box 2.
If you have a Harbor Freight near by, pick up one of these : http://www.harborfreight.com/7-function-digital-multimeter-90899.html
They are cheap, and small enough that I usually carry one on the bike with me (and one in every vehicle). They're on sale for $5 right now, so a cheap investment. When they go on sale for $3, I usually buy a couple just for the batteries.
Using a multi-meter, I checked the resistance of the intake and exhaust cam sensors, the crankcase sensor, the air bleed valve sensor, and the stick coils. All measure resistance ranges per the manual. Without the Kaw adapters, I didn’t check the peak voltage, although failures of peak voltage direct one to ether the previous checks, or the ECU. The suspect list is now down to the cosmic, or something so simple, that when finally discovered, I’ll sell all my tools and take up golf. At this point, I think it’s off to the dealer so that he can check the ECU. Thanks for everyone’s help. I’ll let you know what’s found.
So here's the deal: when turning the crankshaft with my ratchet to line up the timing marks of the rotor, I apparently rapped the camshaft sensor just enough to knock the air gap between the sensor and the rotor so that even though the sensor was working, the magnet just wasn’t close enough to the rotor to pick up the signal . The tech pushed it back in place and it started right up. This probably happened when I was pulling down on the ratchet and the compression stroke gave way. Good job by Grapevine Kawasaki.
Surprising because I would have thought that would have generated a fault code. The ECU would see the cams turning, see that the starter was engaged and the crankshaft sensor was not reading any changes. ???
Glad it worked out for you and very glad it was such a definitive fix- if the problem just went away after some tinkering you would always have to wonder if it was really fixed or just lying in wait.
Brian
Glad it worked out for you and very glad it was such a definitive fix- if the problem just went away after some tinkering you would always have to wonder if it was really fixed or just lying in wait.
Brian
rockgate said: