• Can't post after logging to the forum for the first time... Try Again - If you can't post in the forum, sign out of both the membership site and the forum and log in again. Make sure your COG membership is active and your browser allow cookies. If you still can't post, contact the COG IT guy at IT@Concours.org.
  • IF YOU GET 404 ERROR: This may be due to using a link in a post from prior to the web migration. Content was brought over from the old forum as is, but the links may be in error. If the link contains "cog-online.org" it is an old link and will not work.

Honda Moly 60 Discontinued - Best Spline Lube?

afmayer

afmayer

Guest
Guest
After trying to buy a new tube of Honda Moly 60 for my upcoming tire change (spline lube), I discovered it had been discontinued and replaced by Honda M77. Some current Moly paste choices seem to be Honda M77, Loc-Tite, TS-70 and Jet-Lube. There are differences in Molybdunum disulfide percentage and temperature rating among these... so I suppose the one with highest Moly content and highest temperature range would be the winner?

Don't want to overthink this, but I know how important spline lube is.

The Loc-Tite product gets good reviews. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HWBSJW/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_1?pf_rd_p=1944687662&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0083BWUYW&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=12FVJCV0FSF17S26VTBB#customerReviews

Any opinions on the best spline lube? 
 
Hi,
      Just make sure it is Moly paste! ;D

I'm using some I picked up at work made by CAT Diesel! :eek:
 

Attachments

  • 08_07_08047.jpg
    08_07_08047.jpg
    95.6 KB · Views: 155
I use GD-525 on my Beemers and Connie with good results.  It's a paste; three ounces goes a long way.  Available through Beemer Boneyard if you care.

Mark
 
I'm using the 570. I think either will serve well. The key is actually using it sparingly. More is not better.
 
Good timing on this post -- I've JUST done the same!

although, judging by the amount of grease on the gears, I'm not really certain I need more???

Comments?

 

Attachments

  • Rear Hub Gear.jpg
    Rear Hub Gear.jpg
    49.5 KB · Views: 243
I like Schaeffer's Moly Ultra Synth grease #197  Expensive, but incredible stuff.  I dare ya to wear anything out you grease with it.
 
I've been using Moly grease I bought at walmart , Been using it on my Honda V65 Magnas for years. 34,000 miles on my connie, 68,000 miles on my 86 V65 Magna, 36,000 miles on my 84 V65 Magna. Splines on all 3 bikes are like new & have always used the walmart moly grease  :beerchug:
 

Attachments

  • 20160128_161242 (Copy).jpg
    20160128_161242 (Copy).jpg
    175.7 KB · Views: 222
Rev Ryder said:
I like Schaeffer's Moly Ultra Synth grease #197  Expensive, but incredible stuff.  I dare ya to wear anything out you grease with it.
Click to expand...


Link for supplier  other than  Schaeffer's web site?  All I can find is
420lb drum
120lb keg
40lb pail or
50 tubes per case?? 



 
EZ said:
Rev Ryder said:
I like Schaeffer's Moly Ultra Synth grease #197  Expensive, but incredible stuff.  I dare ya to wear anything out you grease with it.
Click to expand...


Link for supplier  other than  Schaeffer's web site?  All I can find is
420lb drum
120lb keg
40lb pail or
50 tubes per case
Click to expand...
I used to buy it in Pampa Texas from a man named (no kidding) Pleasant Meadows.  He was a big, but friendly (pleasant) man.  Bought in case lots from him.  Now, here in El Campo, my local NAPA store owner is a dealer for it.  I can buy it by the tube.  I have to admit I have had some of this stuff for years.  It lasts forever if you're not greasing big equipment with it like I used to.  I think you can purchase it on Amazon in smaller lots too.  At least you could a couple of years ago.  Maybe eBay.  OK, I'll look.
 
Looks like Amazon shows it "currently unavailable."

There are several Schaefer's moly greases on eBay by the tube, but not the 197 that I saw.  However, I have used even their cheapest versions and all have performed better than any other grease I had tried (back in the day when Mystik was the stuff to beat.  It was no contest).  I use it for anything that needs grease.  Wheel bearings will last near forever even on my saltwater trailer.  It beats even Marine greases.  Amazing stuff. Won't burn off, melt out, sling off, or dry up without taking a WHOLE lot of dirt
 
Hi,
      Well.....This is one bunch of hard-headed people! ;D

BMW, Yamaha, Suzuki, HD, and KAWASAKI, all say to use Moly PASTE.... :eek:

And you guys are bound and determined to use GREASE?  :))

Personally, I don't care if you use clarified butter,  but it is interesting how this thread has gone! :truce:

Maybe I'm lucky NOT having a job where I have to work with the public!  :great:

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/2-goldwing-technical-forum/353331-moly-60-substitute-ts-70-moly-paste.html

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HWC1MK/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2/192-4929777-8481953?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_r=0KTRY6C99QB2468CYBZN&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=1944687462&pf_rd_i=B0083BWUYW

http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?topic=49723.0
 

Attachments

  • maxresdefault.jpg
    maxresdefault.jpg
    103.1 KB · Views: 160
seagiant1 said:
Hi,
      Well.....This is one bunch of hard-headed people! ;D.

BMW, Yamaha, Suzuki, HD, and KAWASAKI, all say to use Moly PASTE.... :eek:

And you guys are bound and determined to use GREASE?  :))

Personally, I don't care if you use clarified butter,  but it is interesting how this thread has gone! :truce:

Maybe I'm lucky not having a job where I have to work with the public! :great:
Click to expand...



I ordered the GD-570 if it makes you feel any better. :nananana:  BTW. Thanks gP
 
seagiant1 said:
BMW, Yamaha, Suzuki, HD, and KAWASAKI, all say to use Moly PASTE.... :eek:

And you guys are bound and determined to use GREASE?  :))
Click to expand...

I shouldn't, but I can't let this go.

Please, enlighten us as to your sources for this info.

Kawi specifies grease, not paste as indicated in the following sources...

Source 1: C10 Factory Service Manual, page 10-2, exploded parts diagram, sliding driveshaft spline - grease (non-moly); cush drive coupler - moly grease

Source 2: C14 FSM, pages 10-2 and 10-3, cush drive coupler - high temp grease; pages 11-2 and 11-3, drive shaft spline - moly grease

So, Kawi in the FSM's for both bikes specifies moly grease, not paste - GREASE!

Now it could be that both FSM's are wrong, but until proven otherwise...

So I ask again, where are you getting your info from? CalSci and Kim Leong?

:popcorn:
 
I'm curious as well since I lubed the splines recently using grease. Does it make that much of a difference?? I mean, as long as the splines get moly something applied, right? I'm talking about just preserving the splines for duration and reliability, not performance enhancing. Am i missing something?
 
I already ordered the GD-570-04 paste as was recommended by a few people in this thread. However, the grease vs paste debate in this thread has sparked my curiosity. After some research, I found this on the "ST" forum that seems to summarize quite well.


"FYI, some dealers & mechanics assume that moly assembly lube (having only a few % moly disulfied, and a low temperature carrier 'grease') is equivalent to moly paste. Not true. Moly paste does not lose any appreciable amount of it's properties up to maybe 600 deg F because of both the moly disulfide properties and its relatively low fraction of the carrier 'grease'. Lithium doesn't provide the same properties as moly...it is has a lower temperature and lower load rating, and generally degrades quicker IIRC.

There is a difference between a CV joint (like splines) and a roller bearing. Specifically a CV joint or spline does not have flow or relative movement of parts, but a bearing does. In a spline, the same mating surfaces always stay together. In a bearing, the balls & races move relative to each other and there is continuous flow and blending of lubricant and air. So a little grease haphazardly applied in a bearing gets spread to the friction surfaces. But in a spline the initial lubrication of each mating surface is all that the mating surface ever sees. Hence, the flowing properties of the grease or paste matters--when using a paste it is assumed that it is properly lubricated on every friction surface during assembly, and that the lubrication (paste) stays in place during the entire service life."

http://www.st-owners.com/forums/showthread.php?81886-When-to-use-Moly-grease
 
Big Al said:
... the grease vs paste debate in this thread has sparked my curiosity. After some research, I found this on the "ST" forum that seems to summarize quite well.
Click to expand...

Ahh, butt... you left out the final sentence. "So, no simple / clear answer."

And actually, the next post in that thread is more informative:

"The rule of thumb is that you use whatever kind of grease is called for in the assembly diagram in the service manual. Anything requiring grease will have a symbol that looks like a grease gun with one of the following in it:"

•GREASE - Multi-purpose lithium-based grease
•M -Molybdenum disulfide grease with at least 3% moly content
•MP - Molybdenum disulfide paste with at least 40% moly content
•S - Silicone grease

The Kawi FSM specifies either G or M, not MP.

So it's up to you what to believe. The factory, or something said in an internet forum?

Me? I've been digging into the same 1 lb. tub of wheel bearing grease with moly that I bought 30 years ago for a couple of bucks at an auto parts store. The stuff has a drop point of 492 degrees, much hotter than the splines will ever get. The stuff stays in place, almost too well.  ~327k miles later on three different Connie's, I've never had a driveshaft spline failure, or any evidence of wear. The cush drive plate wears, but it is designed to.

But if you want to spend big money for a little bit...  ;D
 
seagiant1 said:
Hi,
      Well.....This is one bunch of hard-headed people! ;D

BMW, Yamaha, Suzuki, HD, and KAWASAKI, all say to use Moly PASTE.... :eek:

And you guys are bound and determined to use GREASE?  :))

Personally, I don't care if you use clarified butter,  but it is interesting how this thread has gone! :truce:

Maybe I'm lucky NOT having a job where I have to work with the public!  :great:

http://www.goldwingfacts.com/forums/2-goldwing-technical-forum/353331-moly-60-substitute-ts-70-moly-paste.html

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001HWC1MK/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2/192-4929777-8481953?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_r=0KTRY6C99QB2468CYBZN&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_p=1944687462&pf_rd_i=B0083BWUYW

http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php?topic=49723.0
Click to expand...
C14 FSM, pages 10-2 and 10-3, cush drive coupler - high temp grease; pages 11-2 and 11-3, drive shaft spline - moly grease. So the question should really be, Why are hard headed people insisting on paste ?  :rotflmao:
 
JPavlis_CA said:
Big Al said:
... the grease vs paste debate in this thread has sparked my curiosity. After some research, I found this on the "ST" forum that seems to summarize quite well.
Click to expand...

Ahh, butt... you left out the final sentence. "So, no simple / clear answer."

And actually, the next post in that thread is more informative:

"The rule of thumb is that you use whatever kind of grease is called for in the assembly diagram in the service manual. Anything requiring grease will have a symbol that looks like a grease gun with one of the following in it:"

•GREASE - Multi-purpose lithium-based grease
•M -Molybdenum disulfide grease with at least 3% moly content
•MP - Molybdenum disulfide paste with at least 40% moly content
•S - Silicone grease

The Kawi FSM specifies either G or M, not MP.

So it's up to you what to believe. The factory, or something said in an internet forum?

Me? I've been digging into the same 1 lb. tub of wheel bearing grease with moly that I bought 30 years ago for a couple of bucks at an auto parts store. The stuff has a drop point of 492 degrees, much hotter than the splines will ever get. The stuff stays in place, almost too well.  ~327k miles later on three different Connie's, I've never had a driveshaft spline failure, or any evidence of wear. The cush drive plate wears, but it is designed to.

But if you want to spend big money for a little bit...  ;D
Click to expand...

Not taking sides... but simply trying to add to the discussion. I did find that there existed a preponderance (at least with the keywords I used) of pro-paste content I found for spline lubrication. Juries out for me as I have never had spline wear/failure problems on any of my driveshaft bikes (and I always used molybdenum sulfide grease).
 
Zarticus said:
C14 FSM, pages 10-2 and 10-3, cush drive coupler - high temp grease; pages 11-2 and 11-3, drive shaft spline - moly grease. So the question should really be, Why are hard headed people insisting on paste ?  :rotflmao:
Click to expand...

No.... the real question is why did the C10 spec moly for the drive plate, and just any ol' grease for the C14? (hint: I've already provided a clue)  ;)

Paste or grease. It's like arguing which is better - spaghetti or linguini.  :))
 
Hi,
      Well...A very nice thread and discussion!

Maybe the Marine Engineer side of me, came out a little bit with this,  but... ::)

Think of this...., Moly grease ( like the tube you bought years ago at the auto parts store)

Has about 3% Moly in it! :(

Moly paste has 40-70% of Moly in it! :great:

Now....Which one is going to give the best protection? :eek:

Which may or may not come into the equation for everyone? ;D

Everybody has a choice! :truce:
 

Attachments

  • 98fbf6144aa6c1494ff7be79a51fe2c4.jpg
    98fbf6144aa6c1494ff7be79a51fe2c4.jpg
    95.9 KB · Views: 155
JPavlis_CA said:
Zarticus said:
C14 FSM, pages 10-2 and 10-3, cush drive coupler - high temp grease; pages 11-2 and 11-3, drive shaft spline - moly grease. So the question should really be, Why are hard headed people insisting on paste ?  :rotflmao:
Click to expand...

No.... the real question is why did the C10 spec moly for the drive plate, and just any ol' grease for the C14? (hint: I've already provided a clue)  ;)

Paste or grease. It's like arguing which is better - spaghetti or linguini.  :))
Click to expand...

I don't think any service manual should be treated as a bible... mistakes are made... corrections/updates/addendum's are performed... technology changes... better techniques are discovered, materials are improved, etc. Few changes are made to service manuals on older models of almost anything.

Other ST vendors specify paste also... the reasons why aren't apparent... perhaps because of higher moly content, higher temp rating, better adhesion qualities in a spine type environment?

I wonder if the spline even needs lubricant perfection as it will get a lubricant of some sort every time (hopefully) the rear tire is changed.
 
interesting reading guys.  I have been using marine outdrive grease.  the good part to that is it's good in wet conditions.  like rain!  :eek:
 
So Greg - you're in the "if a little is good, a lot is... MO' BETTER!"  camp.  :)

Butt... is it really required? Remember, this whole Moly 60 stuff started because of what Honda specs for a couple of their bikes. Ever consider that the metallurgy of their gears is different and requires the higher concentration of moly? Or that maybe the Honda bean counters decided to spec it because of warranty claims? This reminds me of another internet old wives tale about water pumps.

Also, the spec for moly grease is a minimum of 3% moly. The stuff sold could be 5, 10 or even 20 percent. But even at 3%, that is what Kawi specs, so who am I to say I know more than all of the Kawi design engineers? As long as the stuff I use meets the minimum, I'm happy.

I wonder if the spline even needs lubricant perfection as it will get a lubricant of some sort every time (hopefully) the rear tire is changed.
Click to expand...

Exactly. This is called preventive maintenance. It's what I have always done. It could be some guys think that if they use the super-duper high percentage stuff they'd never have to do it again. I dunno.
 
Hi,
      I use Moly Paste, in my job on oil and fuel centrifical purifiers in a number of applications, one, as a "never seize" and it is amazing stuff!

I reload and cast my own boolits and for the lead bullet lubricant I use a 50/50 mix of Moly GREASE and top grade beeswax!

So I am a fan of Moly in certain applications and have experience with the paste and grease varietys.

For the splines of the rear wheel I will always use the paste as I believe it is what is intended for that application on these high performance motorcycles!

So yes, in that application more IS better! ;D
 

Attachments

  • a80d314749562dc2fa238b6542dab5eb.jpg
    a80d314749562dc2fa238b6542dab5eb.jpg
    50.7 KB · Views: 144
Well, here's my 2¢ worth of nuttin.

Yes, the spine should be getting lubed every tire change. Only the thinnest, crapiest of greases would be predominantly slung away in that time frame (rear wheel goo).  My only issue with paste is probably touted as its greatest virtue... It's hard as heck to clean away which makes it prone to holding dirt which is the one thing that needs to go away every tire change.
Even pretty stout solvents are slow to really take it down to clean and so it's less likely to get clean and more likely to hold grit which is the antithesis of even the best moly lube. Just my opinion. I like clean grease. But I like dirty rice.  :beerchug:
 
Rev Ryder said:
Well, here's my 2¢ worth of nuttin.

Yes, the spine should be getting lubed every tire change. Only the thinnest, crapiest of greases would be predominantly slung away in that time frame (rear wheel goo).  My only issue with paste is probably touted as its greatest virtue... It's hard as heck to clean away which makes it prone to holding dirt which is the one thing that needs to go away every tire change.
Even pretty stout solvents are slow to really take it down to clean and so it's less likely to get clean and more likely to hold grit which is the antithesis of even the best moly lube. Just my opinion. I like clean grease. But I like dirty rice. girls  :beerchug:
Click to expand...
fify
 
gPink said:
Rev Ryder said:
Well, here's my 2¢ worth of nuttin.

Yes, the spine should be getting lubed every tire change. Only the thinnest, crapiest of greases would be predominantly slung away in that time frame (rear wheel goo).  My only issue with paste is probably touted as its greatest virtue... It's hard as heck to clean away which makes it prone to holding dirt which is the one thing that needs to go away every tire change.
Even pretty stout solvents are slow to really take it down to clean and so it's less likely to get clean and more likely to hold grit which is the antithesis of even the best moly lube. Just my opinion. I like clean grease. But I like dirty rice. girls  :beerchug:
Click to expand...
fify
Click to expand...
I like clean girls. And I'm betting SeaGiant has illustrations for that.  ;D
 
Hi,
        Well...I always thought the young girls I dated in the "70's,"  when I was young and single.....

Were,  cooler, prettier and classier, than whats going on today.... :-X

But, maybe thats how you look at the World when you are younger, and how you remember it ,when your older! ;D
 

Attachments

  • 322329832_5de46254a2_b.jpeg
    322329832_5de46254a2_b.jpeg
    310.8 KB · Views: 170
gPink said:
Rev Ryder said:
Just my opinion. I like clean grease. But I like dirty rice. girls  :beerchug:
Click to expand...
fify
Click to expand...

Had to laugh when I saw that. The other urban definition of fify is "Fit in (a) Few Years" when referring to a pretty girl under the age of 16.

Be careful with those acronyms.  ;)
 
JPavlis_CA said:
Big Al said:
... the grease vs paste debate in this thread has sparked my curiosity. After some research, I found this on the "ST" forum that seems to summarize quite well.
Click to expand...

Ahh, butt... you left out the final sentence. "So, no simple / clear answer."

And actually, the next post in that thread is more informative:

"The rule of thumb is that you use whatever kind of grease is called for in the assembly diagram in the service manual. Anything requiring grease will have a symbol that looks like a grease gun with one of the following in it:"

•GREASE - Multi-purpose lithium-based grease
•M -Molybdenum disulfide grease with at least 3% moly content
•MP - Molybdenum disulfide paste with at least 40% moly content
•S - Silicone grease

The Kawi FSM specifies either G or M, not MP.
Click to expand...

That's ALL the info I needed.  GREASE IT IS!!  :)

Good post, and thank you! 

gr
 
molybdenum
[muh-lib-duh-nuh m]
Spell  Syllables
Word Origin
noun, Chemistry.
1.
a silver-white metallic element, used as an alloy with iron in making hard, high-speed cutting tools. Symbol: Mo; atomic weight: 95.94; atomic number: 42; specific gravity: 10.2.

This stuff is TOUGH to to find!!!  Even harder when nobody knows how to correctly pronounce it.  :-X

gr
 
Even better when you use the whole name... Muh-lib-duh-nuh-m  Die-sul-f-eye-d.  Say it fast three times and see what happens.
 
loA1d4c.jpg



2015-2016 service manual says ' grease '
 
Sailor_chic said:
Grease on the axle and seal. It say moly on the spline
Click to expand...


It says moly GREASE.




I dont think they mean paste. I think, personally, they mean grease.  The manuals are done pretty well.


I tend to think if KAW wanted 'paste' they would specify it.


I've been looking in the service manuel and I havent found any reference to paste yet, as described here.
 
Sailor_chic said:
Did you read the description for the grease link you pasted?

GD-525 grease is for bearings, u-joints etc.

GD-570 paste is for splines

Your choice though.
As many have said, the Honda moly paste works great and doesn't sling off when applied properly.
Click to expand...






Yeah this is what i'm looking at on the URL::




""ApplicationsGD-525 Moly Grease is a synthetic, high temperature grease designed for all types of shaft splines. For motorcycles, use it also to lubricate u-joints, swing arms, starter drive gear, bushings, pins, cable barrels, levers, etc. For industry, GD-525 is a general purpose EP machinery grease, and a grease for the “fifth wheel” and king pin on tractors.; trailer hitch ball.  (GD-525 is not a lubricant for wheel bearings and chains.). For air rifles, use GD-525 on breech block pivot busing.
""



How To Use
For splines, clean off old lubricant with a solvent. Let dry. Burnish (“rub”) GD-525 on and in the metal surfaces with a clean, lint-free cloth. Leave a thin coating of grease on the surface. Work it into the crevices of u-joints and other mechanical components. Also, leave a thin coating of grease on the surfaces.
 
So just curious here. Your pickup has splines on the prop shaft, when was the last time you cleaned and mollied those? :))
 
JTX said:
Sailor_chic said:
Did you read the description for the grease link you pasted?

GD-525 grease is for bearings, u-joints etc.

GD-570 paste is for splines

Your choice though.
As many have said, the Honda moly paste works great and doesn't sling off when applied properly.
Click to expand...

Yeah this is what i'm looking at on the URL::

""ApplicationsGD-525 Moly Grease is a synthetic, high temperature grease designed for all types of shaft splines. For motorcycles, use it also to lubricate u-joints, swing arms, starter drive gear, bushings, pins, cable barrels, levers, etc. For industry, GD-525 is a general purpose EP machinery grease, and a grease for the “fifth wheel” and king pin on tractors.; trailer hitch ball.  (GD-525 is not a lubricant for wheel bearings and chains.). For air rifles, use GD-525 on breech block pivot busing.
""

How To Use
For splines, clean off old lubricant with a solvent. Let dry. Burnish (“rub”) GD-525 on and in the metal surfaces with a clean, lint-free cloth. Leave a thin coating of grease on the surface. Work it into the crevices of u-joints and other mechanical components. Also, leave a thin coating of grease on the surfaces.
Click to expand...

What's confusing is that the descriptions for GD-525 moly grease and GD-570 moly paste both say they are for splines. I went with the GD-570 paste as other motorcycle manufacturers specify using a moly paste. I have also used moly paste on BMW shaft bikes I have owned. With the frequency (every tire change) that the splines will be lubed by anything, I wouldn't think that using either a moly grease or paste would matter much.
 
The bottom line is, I think, anything is better than nothing.  We've tried lots of stuff across the board and haven't heard of numerous mortifying failures.  There are lubes that would/might be woefully inadequate (like WD40 or 3 in 1 oil) and there ain't no such thing as over kill in lubrication if you can get it where you need it (moly paste won't be remotely ideal in a crankcase).

I'm thinking if it has moly and it's a decent lube that will be cleaned off and replaced before it's all gone, it'll work.  :beerchug:
 
GD-525 Grease = Molybdenum Disulfide, %……………………30
GD-570 Paste  = Molybdenum disulfide, %.....................73
 
$13 at a local shop.

Tube will last a lifetime for the shade tree mechanic.  :great:
 

Attachments

  • YamaLube.jpg
    YamaLube.jpg
    77.3 KB · Views: 335
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top