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Low speed stop, from start,with rear brake .... whaaaat?

Aussie

Aussie

Street Cruiser
Ok ... Newbie ... So take it easy ::)

Reading the CDA forum ... Taking off from a stop, slight turn on the front wheel, traffic appears all of a sudden, grab front brake ... Drop bike ... I get it ... But ... What I don't get ...

Am I supposed to have my feet on the pegs immediately so I can hit the rears? How do I get to the rear brakes fast enough? :motonoises:
 
I am a left foot down and right foot rear brake rider. Even if I do happen to have both feet down, I'm feet up as soon as I am rolling, but then I think it is poor form to ride with your feet hanging. 

Tend not to be in neutral at lights most of the time if I am in the front at lights, other spots in the traffic lineup are dictated by the persistent carpal tunnel. HTH.

Cheers,
Randy
 
:iagree: 

I'm not in the 'slight turn on the bars' school, except when making U-turns, or really
sharp turns.  I always try to keep the bars straight on take-off, then turn in.  This allows
for the quick stop if necessary.  A start with a turned wheel... I give plenty of time/space
before I go for it.  Rushing into these maneuvers is berry berry bad.

IF you have to hard brake, you should be straightening the front wheel as much as possible.
That's in the basic safety course... straighten the front wheel, then apply brakes.

One of the basic motorcycle riding skills is to get your feet up as quickly as possible,
so once the bike starts rolling I lift my feet straight to the pegs.  Practice it often. 




 
Mcfly said:
:iagree: 

I'm not in the 'slight turn on the bars' school, except when making U-turns, or really
sharp turns.  I always try to keep the bars straight on take-off, then turn in.  This allows
for the quick stop if necessary.  A start with a turned wheel... I give plenty of time/space
before I go for it.  Rushing into these maneuvers is berry berry bad.

IF you have to hard brake, you should be straightening the front wheel as much as possible.
That's in the basic safety course... straighten the front wheel, then apply brakes.

One of the basic motorcycle riding skills is to get your feet up as quickly as possible,
so once the bike starts rolling I lift my feet straight to the pegs.  Practice it often.
Click to expand...
+1 :motonoises:  I try to have the bars straight when I pull away. 
 
Aussie said:
Ok ... Newbie ... So take it easy ::)

Reading the CDA forum ... Taking off from a stop, slight turn on the front wheel, traffic appears all of a sudden, grab front brake ... Drop bike ... I get it ... But ... What I don't get ...

Am I supposed to have my feet on the pegs immediately so I can hit the rears? How do I get to the rear brakes fast enough? :motonoises:
Click to expand...

Left foot down at all stops in first gear with clutch held in and, your right foot pressing down on the rear brake. This helps to "hold your stop position" without manipulation of the front brake and throttle at the same time. Cover the clutch all the time so you can immediately (if necessary) pull power from the rear wheel. Smoothly let out the clutch while letting off pressure on the rear brake, and applying the throttle slightly the motorcycle will move forward. As it moves forward you will be able to raise your left foot from the ground to the peg. You are now riding a motorcycle!  ;)  Make sure the handle bars and your head are pointed in the direction you want to go!

Now that being said, with this basic question I assume you are either new to the sport or returning. In either case I recommend taking a refresher course from a trained professional. We all can use the coaching and observations to make improvements in our riding.  Best of luck!  :great:
 
In my similar experience, there was no chance to touch the back brake.  The bike was already leaning and getting it back upright would have put me in the roadway.  I normally use the left foot down at stops method that MSF teaches, but in this case it didn't apply.
 
Guys, Thanks for all of the responses … keep ‘em coming … I am always interested to learn more.  ;D

2linby  … I am reasonably new to riding … but I did take the MSF course … and I did read Motorcycle Proficiency … and I debrief with the COG guys a lot.

But I thought that I would ask for clarification … because I usually stop with both feet down (in first gear). So at takeoff, in the first 0.5-1.0 seconds (I guess) where:
1) Acceleration starts
2) Feet are coming up
3) A high speed vehicle appears
4) The front brake is jammed on and the front tire slides out

I was looking for more clarification on the “timing” of how I get my feet up fast enough.

What I am taking away from the thread at the moment is that I should revert to:  :motonoises:
1) left foot down (only), at the stop and
2) right foot on the brake always

Thanks again for the suggestions.
 
2linby said:
... I recommend taking a refresher course from a trained professional. We all can use the coaching and observations to make improvements in our riding.  Best of luck!  :great:
Click to expand...

This can not be stressed too much, whether for a new rider, or guys who have been riding for decades. That said....

I say practice, practice, practice. And when you think you have it down, practice some more. If it's something you've never tried, start small and slow. Instead of full lock turn, try just a little bit. Easy with the throttle. The 14 can be driven away at idle with no clutch slipping (at least mine, I've ridden others that couldn't).

Also, never "grab" the front brake. Learn how to apply it gradually, yet fully. Instead of a grab which dumps you, right now, easing it on brings you to a safe stop. The difference is only a foot or two.

Back to Bob's thoughts... I've had a lot of training over the years: the Chicago motor cop who taught me how to go slow with total control whether it be front brake or rear, throttle or clutch (although to this day I still can't do smooth, full lock to the right u-turns); Keith Code who corrected my hand positions on the bars and levers, and his instructors who taught me to go fast; Doc Wong for helping me focus on one thing at a time during training.

Don't worry about foot position or timing. That has nothing to do with it. It's about feel. Develop your own rhythm. For instance, I have a bum left knee, so for me it's easier to keep my left foot on the peg at stops. So any sudden low speed stops need to be done with the front brake if I haven't gotten the right foot on the peg. Of course on my '08, the rear brake is basically worthless.

Learn to ease the brake on, not grab at it. Learn to use the front brake while turned (at slow speed). Learn to get the bike rolling with minimum throttle. Control, control, control. Practice, practice, practice.

And when you're done, practice some more.  :motonoises:  :)
 
Thanks for the further amplification ... Proceeded with practicing ... Hope to get proficient sometime this century  ;D
 
If I'm at a light behind a line of cages, I just pop it into neutral and put both feet down, holding the front brake in just enough to light up the brake lights. Saves on the clutch throwout bearing. But if nobody is ahead of me, then I stop in 2nd gear and use the left foot down method. Starting doing this after I dropped my K100 a few years back. Haven't had a problem since.
 
Left foot down , right foot on brake , clutch in , in first gear . It's good to be ready to move out of the way as quickly as possible at intersections , and keeping your foot on the rear brake can prevent you from being pushed into traffic when an idiot bumps you from the rear . Always check your mirrors at stops for danger from behind as well .
 
In the police motor officer course, they taught turn the wheel the direction you want to go. And have that foot down. So you keep and maintain your balance while stopped. If you are turning to the right, you can turn the bars to the right, but you also have your right foot down. Left foot on the pegs.  And yes feet go straight to the pegs as soon as you start rolling.

With left turns its not so bad as you generally have a full lane you cross before you have to turn into your lane in the direction of travel. When going to the right, you don't have this extra room. And too many folks pulling off straight end up getting out too far and then trying to turn into the lane, they get too wide and sometimes end up in or very close to the traffic in the opposite and on coming lane.

The idea being that with a right turn by turning to the bars to the right, with the right foot down, you have the balance and the footing to maintain control as you start and you go right into the lane you want, without swinging wide.

We practiced curb pull-outs every day. Several times a day while playing follow the leader. The bikes are pulled up close to a curb all facing straight in, and not very far apart. At first there is some gap between us and the curb. By day 4 you are barely a little more than bike width from the curb. The bikes are close enough side by side that the guy next to you have to turn his bars, and lean, dip the bike over so that your rear crash bars don't wipe out his front tire.  -- So the second guy turns and dips his/her bike while the first guy pulls out and turns immediately riding down between the curb and all the other bikes. The second guy straightens up as the third guy now dips his/her bike and the second person pulls out. The third guys straightens up and the fourth guy dips his/her bike and third person pulls out. With 6-8 bikes by the time you are getting down to the 4-5 people in line the first person has cleared the group, pulled a U-turn and pulled up next to the last one in line. With this you can just keep the progression going and going and there is always a decent line of bikes between you and the curb you have to ride between.  -- You do these both directions left and right. And by day 4 you are barely 1 bike width and a foot or so extra from the curb when you start out.

I find the C10 does not have near the turning radius them old KZ1000 Police trainer bikes have. I need a bit more distance. But with practice you can go either direction, pull away turning and use very little room.  I like to try these at the Park 'n Ride on my own occasionally. No bikes to smack into. But pulling up to the curb about a bike length ( not width like above ) away and pull away.
 
Very interesting responses - lots of food for thought here.

After nearly dropping the bike (more than once) with the one-foot-down approach (due to lack of traction) I've defaulted into the both-feet-down approach.

If I'm in traffic, I filter to the front to reduce the chances of the rear end collision (legal here in CA). If I'm the first one at the light, I position myself as if I had filtered and keep an eye on my rear view mirror for the dreaded "Textasaurs." No claim that any of this is right/correct/preferable - it's just what I do.  ;)
 
I see a lot of riders dragging feet through an intersection, I think it's bad form from both safety and aesthetics points of view.

It takes some experience, but you can use the front brake while turning without dropping the bike. It's a matter of predicting the change of movement of the bike, and resisting the urge to grab the brake all at once. Once you have some experience, this will come second nature. If you have to think about it, it's too late.

However, the first thing is to break your self of the habit of dragging your feet. Again with some experience, and you'll be able to slow the bike to where you have to feather the clutch to prevent stalling the motor while keeping both feet on the pegs.

But even the most experience riders make mistakes, it happens.

And sometimes there isn't anything in the world even the best of us could have done differently.
 
WillyP said:
And sometimes there isn't anything in the world even the best of us could have done differently.
Click to expand...

True dat Willy... true dat.  Sometimes $h!+ happens.  Hind sight is often blurred by time.
 
Be careful of the one foot down rule.  My buddy is short like I am, and a few years back, actually got a ticket for not having both feet touching at a stop sign.  Apparently was Maryland law.  Don't know if it still is.  Might want to check local law, as it trumps MSF which is designed for 50 states, not a specific one.  That being said, my feet are up in less than 1/2 a second.  By the time bike moves, my feet are up from stop.  One of the most important things to learn on a bike is it's and your center of balance.  Slow rolling on idle in a parking lot is a great way to learn this.  This helps you with getting your feet up quickly.
 
Never heard of that one! But there's no reason not to put two feet down. Just be sure and pick them up as soon as you move.

Practice balancing the bike stationary with no feet. But not at a stop sign in Maryland.
 
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