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Lowering kits: Dogs vs rockers

reltub.leinad1172

Big Wheel
Forum Subscriber
First time owner (2006 C10), and I'm struggling to get my feet all the way down on the ground. I've done some reading here on lowering but was hoping for first-hand experience on which option was safer/more reliable: dogs or rocker? I found the Soupy's dogs online and between those and a rocker they're both $200. Wife's not thrilled I'm looking to spend more already, so does anyone have a drawing with the dimensions on this piece? I have a machinist friend who was happy to give me an estimate but I don't know what to ask for. Or even better if anyone has an extra they would sell!
Thanks,
Dan
 

Bud

Member
Member
While you're messing with the rear suspension, I'd factor in a C14 rear shock. $50 on eBay? Maybe the links would be better if you can't get the CEO to approve the funds for a shock and links, you'd still have the option to upgrade later. With the rocker, you'd have to get a rocker to compensate for the slightly longer C14 shock. With the links, you can adjust for the longer shock. As for reliability, bearings can be replaced in the rocker. I've not heard of anyone that has worn out lowering links. Anything you're looking for should be in a wtb thread, in our classified section. A lot of stuff is found that way. Sometimes for just shipping. You might also try thick soled boots to aid in your reach to the ground. Lowered seats work if you're handy or have someone else that can do that. Please consider joining as a full member. The benefits are worth it. Welcome!
 
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croach1776

Member
Member
I got the lowering links Soupy on ebay for about 200. Lowered C10 about 1.75 in rear and .25 in front. Now I sit with both feet flat on the ground (riding boots). I have a 30 inch inseam. My Connie came with a corbin seat that was a little lower then OEM. This is one upgrade that helps change entire character of the Connie. No longer have to lean to one side to balance when stopping and easier to maneuver in garage.
 

Mercer

Member
Member
When I switched to C14 shock on my C10.

I took four swing arm to rocker links, cutting and welding them back together so as to have two 7/16 longer links.

Obtained extra links off ebay for next to nothing complete with extra rocker, bolts and good bearings to boot. This lowered bike to a 1 inch net which was then back to stock configuration. The C14 shock is about 1 inch longer.

Yes, homemade 7/16 longer arm lowered bike approximately 1 inch.

I made the cuts diagonal on links and radiused the weld surfaces to get more contact and weld penetration. Used a piece of angle iron with bolts and washers to hold all parts in place for welding. One link placed on each side of jig. Also heated parts in that jig before and after welding. 200 degrees before and 500 degrees for a while after.

Touched up weld with belt sander and painted. They look stock except for extra length.

Though I do not know such for sure would believe 14/16 would yield another inch drop of bike rear with a C14 shock. This would net you a C10 with a C14 at 1 inch lower than the stock position. As well 7/16 mentioned above with a stock shock would get rear lowered an inch on the stock configuration.

All above is from memory. I would mock it up on bike to be sure. It sounds like it was involved but it was not. To mock up I just used wood and flat iron to confirm the dimensions. The rocker is at a sharp angle after mods compared to stock. Not sure what 14/16 longer arm would do there.

Of note it is reported one can only lower a C10 about 1 inch. None of the above paths would break that barrier. I know of no one that has done it this way save myself. For my needs it worked most fine and yes of course it was oh so frugalicious.

Hope such helps someone!
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Mercer, I did the same thing on my C-14.
ie; Made longer Links from existing ZX-14 Links by cutting and welding to an exact length.
NOTE: The C-14 or ZX-14 Links are made from Forged Steel.

I did not attempt this on a C-10 as I thought the Links were Aluminum?
{I am not certain about that, but I just checked and they are non magnetic}.
So, maybe they are some type of steel alloy?

Everyone; as Mercer/I have shown, this can be done.
BUT: A mod like this should only be done by a qualified welder, and inspected periodically.
Because sudden failure at the welds could be bad!

Ride safe, Ted

PS: Other option's that haven't been listed are;
Installation of ZZR-1100 Shock. {I think it will lower the bike slightly}
Remove some of the foam from the seat. {Or find an aftermarket seat with less seat height.
Decreasing pressure in the OEM shock to about 20 psi.
Call Norm Soucy and buy his one remaining lowering Rocker. {he stopped making them}

If anyone is interested; I recently discovered a OEM Link from another bike that can be installed on A C-14 to lower it safely.
Can be purchased on Ebay for as little as $10.

 
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reltub.leinad1172

Big Wheel
Forum Subscriber
Thanks Ted, with the ZZR-1100 shock (will any model year work?) and decreasing the OEM shock pressure to 20, how much would you expect those each to drop the height? I'm already on the balls of my feet so I think just another inch or two and I'll be sitting with my heels on the ground.
 

Mercer

Member
Member
Yes, Ted they are aluminum or some such alloy. Welded up fine within that mediums parameters. Researched the procedure as best could and it seemed doable. Got about 4k miles on them now. No issues as yet.

Making up jig to hold all parts for welding was not hard. Just angle iron, washers, bolts. I have already recycled those parts for other projects now. Wish I had made a drawing.

Shout here of thanks to Ted folks! Early on he confirmed my measurement of 7/16 inch with a chart he had developed for different link measures and what the net effect in lowering or raising would result. As I was shooting in the dark with blocks of wood and paint mix sticks so to speak it was nice to have a spotter confirming the zero!

I did consider doing the links in steel. But all those nice needle bearing and zerks were just so "trick". I could not bare the thought of cutting them out in any frugal process of my crafting.

Yes too, I do keep an eye on the welds in the links. I am down there periodically as the shock lower is now without one of those wondrous grease fittings due to the new bushing there. As it is in the weather and picks up road debris so to speak. I like to grease it regularly. Of note I made some very thin washer shields over the rubber needle bearing side bushes there too. Just to deflect the road debris off them directly. I just drop the bottom shock bolt. Pull two washers, rubber shields, needle bearing, clean it all up, re-grease, re-assemble. Actually very easy and quick. I have not re-greased the zerk fittings yet though. Probably will around next tire change.

Again hope my tinkering like this helps someone along the C10 way.
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Thanks Ted, with the ZZR-1100 shock (will any model year work?) and decreasing the OEM shock pressure to 20, how much would you expect those each to drop the height? I'm already on the balls of my feet so I think just another inch or two and I'll be sitting with my heels on the groun

Some one else will know the year. Don't know myself as I have the C-14 shock.

Height drop would be EZ to measure.
Put 50 psi in the rear shock, set on the bike, have someone measure from axle (to a point directly above the axle and record it), reduce the pressure to 20 psi, and repeat.

NOTE: Setting air pressure in a C-10 shock can be difficult because of the low volume. Be sure you do it right.
I use an air compressor with a regulator.
I set the regulator to the correct pressure and then air the shock.
Using an air compressor without a regulator can drastically overpressure the rear shock.
Others use some type of hand pump.


The difference in your 2 measurement's will be your answer.
NOTE: Lowering the rear in this manner is an option to try (to see how much drop you want}, but not a good option to use continuously.
Bekuz; By letting the bike sag, you are using up some of your available travel and the suspension will be mushy.
A lowering Link or Rocker, or another/shorter shock (set at the correct sag) are better options.

Ride safe, Ted

Update; Not sure of all years, but this is what your looking for.
NOTE: Many go to this shock to get a better shock. They go to the ZZR shock because of the increased height issues with a C-14 rear shock.
With the ZZR, I know the bike will be close to stock height. Not positive that it is lower than stock.
 
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reltub.leinad1172

Big Wheel
Forum Subscriber
Okay I ordered Soupy's lowering links, would someone please help me understand what I'll need to do with the fork in order to compensate for the change I make on the back end? I'm not sure yet how far down I'll go but supposedly these can go up to 4" lower. Sorry if this has been asked before, I looked around and couldn't find it.
Thanks,
Dan
 

santacruzrider

Member
Member
You're getting some great tech advice here, but given that it sounds like you actually are getting the balls of your feet down, here's another option -- adjust your attitude around needing to get your feet flat on the ground. I put 60K miles on my last C10 and at no point was I ever able to get anymore than the balls of my feet on the ground. These are sport bikes that are meant for cornering and the compromise is that they aren't built for the average rider to flat foot. There are bike made for that, they are call cruisers.
Admittedly the C10 is a heavy beast to balance on your toes, but if it starts falling over, you'll get your whole foot down -- trust me!
Good luck getting the right fit.
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
Santacruz has a valid point. Flat footed to is too low.. (**see below)

Plus we need to ask you a couple of questions.
Your height/inseam?
Have you checked the pressure that is in your rear shock?
Did you do the checks I suggested with 50 and 20 psi?

Without knowing any of this, {and since your apparently to ride it now as it is} I would NOT lower the bike more than 1".
** Because unloaded at 1" is going to become 2" or 3" loaded for a trip, or with wife aboard.
To get 1" drop, you need the Soupy Links to be about 3/8" longer than the OEM Links.
Because of the linkage ratio's, 3/8" increase at the Links, should equal approx. 1" drop at the axle.

To find out how much your actually lowering the bike, put the bike on the center stand without the rear wheel touching the ground.
Measure from axle (to a point directly above the axle on the frame, and record it)
Install the Soupy Links with them 3/8" longer than OEM.
Again; Measure from axle (to the same point directly above the axle on the frame, and record it)
The difference in the 2 measurement's will tell you how much you lowered the rear.
IMPORTANT: Find out how much pressure is in the rear shock. You want a minimum of 20 psi.
After setting pressure, take the bike off the stand and set on it.
Check the feel. You DO NOT want to be flat footed.
If your happy with the feel, you can lower the front about 1/2" to match the rear.

Ride safe, Ted
 

barrieM5

Member
Member
First time owner (2006 C10), and I'm struggling to get my feet all the way down on the ground. I've done some reading here on lowering but was hoping for first-hand experience on which option was safer/more reliable: dogs or rocker? I found the Soupy's dogs online and between those and a rocker they're both $200. Wife's not thrilled I'm looking to spend more already, so does anyone have a drawing with the dimensions on this piece? I have a machinist friend who was happy to give me an estimate but I don't know what to ask for. Or even better if anyone has an extra they would sell!
Thanks,
Dan
I went through the same thing ! I could never get my feet flat on the ground so I ordered the Soupy's kit with the modified side stand. It's not cheap but it's well designed and I feel way more confident on the bike now. I lowered it 1.5 inches but I may get it lowered another 1/2 inch and then it will be perfect !
 

Road Runner

SE USA - AAD
Member
You're getting some great tech advice here, but given that it sounds like you actually are getting the balls of your feet down, here's another option -- adjust your attitude around needing to get your feet flat on the ground. I put 60K miles on my last C10 and at no point was I ever able to get anymore than the balls of my feet on the ground. These are sport bikes that are meant for cornering and the compromise is that they aren't built for the average rider to flat foot. There are bike made for that, they are call cruisers.
Admittedly the C10 is a heavy beast to balance on your toes, but if it starts falling over, you'll get your whole foot down -- trust me!
Good luck getting the right fit.
+1 on a non-lowered C14 and me w/ 30" inseam. at over 80K miles, it has worked for me, but I can't speak for others ... different situations for folks here. I know this is a C10 thread, but thought santacruzrider raised a good point, regardless if C10, C14.
 

darrell.kehler8004

Big Wheel
Forum Subscriber
Thanks Dan for starting this discussion. I am a first time owner to a 2002 C10. With a 30 inch inseam I'm also looking to lower my C10.
If the bike is lowered, what do you do with your kickstand? Will you need to shorten it also?
Thanks, Darrell
 

Bud

Member
Member
Thanks Dan for starting this discussion. I am a first time owner to a 2002 C10. With a 30 inch inseam I'm also looking to lower my C10.
If the bike is lowered, what do you do with your kickstand? Will you need to shorten it also?
Thanks, Darrell
Heat it and bend it is one option.
 
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