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OEM is the Best Air Filter

rlievenski4555

rlievenski4555

Member
Member
Yesterday, I learned from a tuning expert that the OEM air filter is by far the best for protecting the engine. No significant power advantages can be had from after market units. I recently changed to a K&N and will go back to OEM as I get Miss Tourmaline out from her winter slumber. This was new to me and think it might start an interesting discussion.
 
Not specifically about motorcycle air filters, but enough to convince me to stay far away from K & N. They may flow more, but don't protect your engine as well. I'm running a stock filter and have no interest in changing something so vital to making my bike engine last.
 
horsenuts123 said:
Not specifically about motorcycle air filters, but enough to convince me to stay far away from K & N. They may flow more, but don't protect your engine as well. I'm running a stock filter and have no interest in changing something so vital to making my bike engine last.
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Thanks for sharing! This is great empirical data. As a statistician, doing replicate test trials would have been great to be able to look for significant differences; however, it would have been much more time consuming.
 
There are more non stock choices than the K&N.
A lot of talk on the FB forums about the Hi Flo filter being way more restrictive than stock. I dont think its an issue. At the cheaper price it gets changed more often.
 
rlievenski4555 said:
Yesterday, I learned from a tuning expert that the OEM air filter is by far the best for protecting the engine. No significant power advantages can be had from after market units. I recently changed to a K&N and will go back to OEM as I get Miss Tourmaline out from her winter slumber. This was new to me and think it might start an interesting discussion.
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"Back in the day" you had to put on cone filters, a jet kit and a header if you wanted to accomplish any power increases... and they were probably mostly in our minds anyway. That's been hard to shake off - hotrodders are always looking for the edge, so we're easy prey to gimmicks. The fact is that today's bikes are engineered very well, lots of time going into each component. Can the aftermarket do better? Yes, as long as you understand any possible downsides, and are willing to accept them. Air filters need to flow enough air to not create any pressure loss to the intake. Once they've done that, here's no advantage, power wise. Disadvantages are the ability to suck dirt and shorten the lifespan of the engine. You need to decide which is more important, an imperceptable power gain, or prematurely worn out cylinders.
Steve
 
A year or 2 ago I read a comment from a mechanic who worked at a large Kaw dealership. His main job was to do valve check/adjust on most of ZG & ZX 1400 bikes that came thru the shop. He said that bikes with K&N type air filters always needed smaller shims to get back to mid spec than bikes with stock filters. I wonder why - not!

Different bike using a K&N for less miles.
4PYAvOW.jpg
 
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Not here to argue or advocate the use of K&N filters. I put one in my bike at the 1st filter change simply to avoid buying a filter every year or more. That was approx. 250,000 miles ago, bike still runs like new & not once have I ever added oil between changes. Even had a few oil analysis done at Blackstone Labs & they come back all good.

So, at 264,000 miles currently what is considered shortened engine life?
 
Keep my K&N cleaned and oiled. Over 130,000 on my Gold Wing. No oil use, no problems. Have the K&N on the C14 not as many miles but same results. What ever micro particle it lets through I guess it just eats them up.
 
If you read the fine print ( well it`s not really fine print ) on a K&N box it says highway use. I have a K&N on my 2003 Ford Explorer that I put in when I got it new. It now has over 210,000 miles on it and it does`nt use any oil what so ever. I`ve pulled my 2 place enclosed snowmobile trailer from Wisconsin to the mountains of Wyoming many times and to the UP of Michigan many times so the little 4.0 engine has gotten many good work outs and never in overdrive. And of course I have one in my 2010 C14 with only 60,200 miles on it and it`s never going to see 200,000 miles no matter what kind of air filter is in it. It`s going to out live me anyway. Clean and oil the K&N every 50,000 miles. No you tube is going to change my mind. I do`nt ride anything off the highway other then my snowmobile.
 
I have a K&N on my 09 Cummins pickup with 223,000 miles, It doesn't use oil, and I do 10,000-mile oil changes

I did reinstall a factory filter in C14 after the valve check, had a K&N in it, He said everything was in specs.

Maybe If one lives in a dusty area, it would be more important?
 
Been using performance air cleaners in all my bikes with no issues. Stock air cleaners do the job they were intended to do. Performance air cleaners have come a long way as with many other performance enhancements. When my tech does a performance upgrade on any of the myriad of motorcycles he tunes, a performance air cleaner is ALWAYS used. If the owner wants to leave the stock one in, he/she is informed they will lose power...
 
Just Cliff said:
Not here to argue or advocate the use of K&N filters. I put one in my bike at the 1st filter change simply to avoid buying a filter every year or more. That was approx. 250,000 miles ago, bike still runs like new & not once have I ever added oil between changes. Even had a few oil analysis done at Blackstone Labs & they come back all good.

So, at 264,000 miles currently what is considered shortened engine life?
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A K&N in my 98 ZX9R with 87,000 plus miles and still will run it up there on top end. Have K&N's, BMC's and Air Raid in all my vehicles for years.
 
sean97123638 said:
Been using performance air cleaners in all my bikes with no issues. Stock air cleaners do the job they were intended to do. Performance air cleaners have come a long way as with many other performance enhancements. When my tech does a performance upgrade on any of the myriad of motorcycles he tunes, a performance air cleaner is ALWAYS used. If the owner wants to leave the stock one in, he/she is informed they will lose power...
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Show me the power gain on the dyno. I haven’t seen it on mine.
 
Are any of you familiar with my 2 minute mod jet kit for the c-10 Concours?

This jet kit uses a foam block to restrict almost 50% of the airbox inlet.

There is NO loss of power. Dyno proven. In fact ask the c-10 guys what they think of it, it's been around for about 14 years or so, and well over 1000 carbs fitted with it. If it didn't work, or lost power, I would think it would have faded long ago.

Everyone seems to think "more is better" When it comes to hotrodding. Well... not always.

Steve
 
Hello Steve. The air cleaner upgrade must be placed into context. Performance air cleaners provide increased air permeability and superior filtering material. A stock motorcycle with no tuning will not gain the advantage of a performance air cleaner. A "flashed" motorcycle with tuned exhaust and a performance air cleaner will gain power, versus running the stock air cleaner with the same configuration. This thread started with the title: OEM is the Best Air Filter. This statement must be placed into context. For a stock bike with no tuning, OEM suits the bike just fine. Is it the Best Air Filter ? No, there are better. The stock filter is made at a price point, with no performance goal. Regarding dyno proof: Look up Brocks Performance ZX14R Air Filter tests. He tests stock, stock modified (metal screen removed,) no filter and a performance sprint filter. He does back to back dyno pulls and discovers the sprint gains 5+ horsepower at the top rpm. This is a flashed and tuned ZX14. My tech did back-to-back dyno pulls with the sprint filter versus oem and k/n and saw on the average, a 3-horsepower gain at the top. My educated guess on a stock Concourse 14, a perfromance air filter would give you a 1 hp increase. Would you feel this ? No. Would it make a difference racing someone ? No, especially if he got the hole shot. Tune the bike, different outcome...Sean
 
sean97123638 said:
My educated guess on a stock Concourse 14, a perfromance air filter would give you a 1 hp increase. Would you feel this ? No. Would it make a difference racing someone ? No, especially if he got the hole shot. Tune the bike, different outcome...Sean
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Educated guess? @Steve in sunny Fla has seen a lot of C-14s on the dyno over the years, and tuned a lot of them.

When I got my tune from @Ivan_ipp , I asked about a performance filter and he said use the stock filter and change it regularly.
He has tuned a lot of them on the dyno too.

I would bet they have several hundred hours of C-14 dyno time between them.
 
No problem Sir. I will stick with my educated guess after owning over a dozen high performance motorcycles and tuning the machines for maximum power. As I previously explained, place the stock air-cleaner into context. If Steve or Ivan want to retain the stock Connie air cleaner, that is just fine with me. It looks like the Air Cleaner discussion is becoming another oil thread...lol.
 
Hello
there seems to be a lot of dust:unsure:
The fact that it’s always a little oily contaminates the dust and recovers it.
I change the air filters every 5,000 kilometers (3,100 miles), I control every 2,500 kilometers, especially in the summer.

Bernard
 
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sean97123638 said:
No problem Sir. I will stick with my educated guess after owning over a dozen high performance motorcycles and tuning the machines for maximum power. As I previously explained, place the stock air-cleaner into context. If Steve or Ivan want to retain the stock Connie air cleaner, that is just fine with me. It looks like the Air Cleaner discussion is becoming another oil thread...lol.
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Some of the responses are extremely entertaining!

What we have seen over the years is better airflow won't give any significant increase in the overall gains with a map that is tuned based on the stock filter, however with good airflow most Professional industry tuners like Keven Baxter of Pro Twins, Brock, Chris Moore, Kevin at KWS can tweak the map further to squeeze a little bit more power overall, it cleans up the mid-range a little and if peak HP on a 700-pound shaft drive bike makes you Hard,then a professional tune on a good machine with a good fresh valve adjustment can add maybe 1-2 HP at the top. Doubt you will see that with your mail-in flash tuner service!

Sure Oil Gauze filters let in more particles than a paper element, That's right up there with ("Yea bro I had to lay her down") We tested BMC filters when I was working with Donaldson years ago and they captured down to 7 microns, You should see what an OEM paper filter looks like during the Hot Humid southern months.

I Use BMC mostly or K&N but one thing I will share is my 95 Fat Boy purchased brand new. With the exception of Rocker box and base gaskets that Bike has run a Screamin Eagle K&N air filter since 1996 and has over two hundred and thirty-six thousand miles on the bottom end.
 
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Steve in sunny Fla said:
Show me the power gain on the dyno. I haven’t seen it on mine.
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Might not be more power gain on a C10, but the factory filter on that gal was oil treated foam... like on a Briggs lawn mower , more open than the cotton fiber used on the replacement on the K&N. Its a mute point as last I looked K&N has dropped air filters for both bikes..

As far as dyno results, not on motorcycles but heres some information from K&N

www.knfilters.com

How K&N Validates Horsepower Gains from Intake Systems

Learn more about the horsepower testing and validation process at K&N, and how to spot misleading claims from other advertisers.
www.knfilters.com www.knfilters.com

How big is 7 microns? 0.00027559 of an inch
 
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Murph, that's an interesting read.
K&N is obviously taking lots of precautions to assure their dyno tests are accurate.

NOTE;
1) The Hp increase they show is from changing the intake system, not just the air Filter.
2) They said that dyno tests are not exactly comparable when done on different dyno's/days/bikes/locations/etc etc.
ie; Due to the variables in the tests.
 
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4bikes said:
FYI, Murph now sells the OEM filters for the C-14. No brainer for me next change.
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...L....The default, reboot is always.....OEM..they made the engine, they spec'ed the requirements. Can it be better or improved? Probably..maybe...but you can't be wrong when you play by house rules...
connie_rider said:
2) They said that dyno tests are not exactly comparable when done on different dyno's/days/bikes/locations/etc etc.
ie; Due to the variables in the tests.
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1000%%...I've been to Dynojets training twice, Pattys been once ( shes certified!!)

You think A little software tweek and you get numbers added to those curves?
 
Pmack said:
Educated guess? @Steve in sunny Fla has seen a lot of C-14s on the dyno over the years, and tuned a lot of them.

When I got my tune from @Ivan_ipp , I asked about a performance filter and he said use the stock filter and change it regularly.
He has tuned a lot of them on the dyno too.

I would bet they have several hundred hours of C-14 dyno time between them.
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Why does Ivan ask what air filter you will be using on his form?
 
kb9ndl said:
Why does Ivan ask what air filter you will be using on his form?
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The flow of air into the fuel injection system has a big influence on the mapping of the injection process over the rev range. High flow air filters (K&N…) are good for racing, yet allow more dirt particles into the engine. He explained that Kawasaki has excellent engineers and designed the OEM air filter to optimize performance and reliability.
 
rlievenski4555 said:
The flow of air into the fuel injection system has a big influence on the mapping of the injection process over the rev range. High flow air filters (K&N…) are good for racing, yet allow more dirt particles into the engine. He explained that Kawasaki has excellent engineers and designed the OEM air filter to optimize performance and reliability.
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That is good enough for me!
 
Murph said:
Might not be more power gain on a C10, but the factory filter on that gal was oil treated foam... like on a Briggs lawn mower , more open than the cotton fiber used on the replacement on the K&N. Its a mute point as last I looked K&N has dropped air filters for both bikes..

As far as dyno results, not on motorcycles but heres some information from K&N

www.knfilters.com

How K&N Validates Horsepower Gains from Intake Systems

Learn more about the horsepower testing and validation process at K&N, and how to spot misleading claims from other advertisers.
www.knfilters.com www.knfilters.com

How big is 7 microns? 0.00027559 of an inch
Click to expand...
Both my current bikes (ZX600-C and C10) came with K&N filters when I got the bikes, but both bikes had oiled foam filters as OEM. I have not seen test data comparing them, but I have to assume that a well-maintained K&N can't be any worse than an oiled foam filter, especially given the crude maintenance procedure for the oiled foam (soak with oil, then squeeze out "excess". How much is that anyway?). Not to mention that the K&Ns hold up better with age.

I've always been skeptical of the benefits (and wary of the risks) of switching to oiled gauze filters on vehicles that came OEM with well-designed large-surface-area dry paper element filters, but on models that came with oiled foam, not so much.
 
I swear some of the off the wall information, on this forum makes my chest hurt!
 
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