Programming C14 FOB Keys

[Vetterun]

Please forgive me if this is old news regarding dealer programming of FOB keys for the C14. I know much has been written by both detractors and fans of KIPASS. Prior to today, I would place myself in the neutral camp. I learned to carry both FOB keys, spare CR2025 batteries and take what other measures I could implement to avoid problems. Now, it seems like an interesting application of technology, but unnecessary, costly and aggravating.

I've owned many different rides since I was a teenager, but have always had at least one Kawasaki in the stable since 1972. Needless to say, I am a fan and put my money where I believe it does the most good. I consider my 2008 C14 to be the best purchase I have made. Recently, I managed to wash one of my two FOB keys, which proves how human I am and just how definitely not waterproof the devices are. My bad!

I purchased a replacement online, as I am extremely leary of having only a solo that could leave me with a 600 lb. stone, rather than my favorite toy. I tossed the baggie the new FOB key arrived in and went to dealer to have the unit programmed. After a 2-hour wait, I was asked if I had the package for the FOB. Trash was collected today and I knew the plastic bag was now a future archaelogical find, but unrecoverable by me. The service manager kindly showed me a Kawasaki dealer bulletin, which stated the FOB key could not be programmed without the registration number found on the package. The memo went on to say how much of a problem this had caused owners and that the parts department should tell each buyer to record the registration number in their owner manual or save the plastic bag. It said they were working to make this known to all future buyers with changes to packaging, the owners manual or some other notification process, but for now, verbal advice by the parts department would have to do.

I am more unhappy with myself than ever, but didn't have a clue that Kawasaki would have no means of programming or re-programming my expensive FOB keys. It seems amazing there is no central registry that can be accessed by dealers or the factory. There is no permanent way of bypassing KIPASS and I only wish I could have bypassed my mistakes. I hope this note helps some other owner avoid repeating my errors. At best, I can only hope to not add triple-jeopardy to my own score card.

Incidentally, I phoned Kawasaki directly and got the same feedback as provided by the dealer. The rep said KIPASS technology was a vendor component and that Kawasaki had no control over the implementation of the procedures or lack of any redundancy for the surprise registration number fiasco. Good luck!

:'(

 

[jimp]

Russel - sorry about the new fob problem, and I have to disagree with Kawi's cust serv response. In the industry that employees me, we control our vendor procedures for our parts. It's all part of being ISO 9001 certified, which I'm sure Kawi is. So I call BS on Kawi CS.

Your old soaked fob should still be OK. Just open it, dry it out real good and install a new battery. Brian (BDF) has been drenching his for years to prove how (un)reliable K-Pass is. His most recent was in a glass of wine.

 

[jasonc32amg]

What a bummer. I'm confused though because I thought the programming information they need is on the original baggie with the extra key fob you got with the bike?

 

[Cap'n Bob]

<snip>
Your old soaked fob should still be OK. Just open it, dry it out real good and install a new battery. Brian (BDF) has been drenching his for years to prove how (un)reliable K-Pass is. His most recent was in a glass of wine.

Well kind of. Brian dunks his fob in a glass of liquid to prove how good KIPASS is (more for my amusement). Normally for short periods, the FOB tends to be pretty water resistant. Brian's last attempt in the wine, killed the fobs battery and filled it with wine. After drying out and installing a new battery, his did go back to work.(although it now has the smell of wine) Others had run it through the wash and also was able to dry out and replace battery to get it working again. But it doesn't always work. The longer it sits with moisture in it, possibly the longer it may not work. So take it apart and get to drying. And pull the battery also and try replacing. It may still work as Jim has said.
I totally agree with you on your KIPASS thoughts. But of course I have been the anti KIPASS guy around here since my first of multiple standings and problems on my 2008 way back when in 2007! So unlike the pro KIPASS people, I found it to be an unreliable, costly, unessary piece of junk that I didn't need! But anyway, the KIPASS system is made by Mitsubishi. And yes you need the bag for the number. Or another fob is worthless.
So for what it's worth, your not alone! 

 

[mkorn]

i never got the original bag from the dealer ... does this mean i am hosed if i ever need to add or replace a FOB?

 

[obrienl]

That sucks about the package being thrown away.  Like others have said, you can probably dry the fob out and it will most likely work.  I have washed mine twice now.  Not on accident mind you, I just like the mountain rain fresh scent.  ;D 

i never got the original bag from the dealer ... does this mean i am hosed if i ever need to add or replace a FOB?

You should be ok if you replace a lost fob.  As I understand it you will need to have your remaining fob with the bike when you have the replacement coded to the bike. 

 

[ernie4110]

The company I work for supplies parts to different manufactures. On programmed boards we provide a digital code on the package that allows the other party to take that digital code and reprogram the board to the mating electronics. If you do not have this code you are finished. The only way for us to read this lost code is send it back to us and reprogram the board which would cost about the same as buying a new FOB.

Rash

 

[Cap'n Bob]

i never got the original bag from the dealer ... does this mean i am hosed if i ever need to add or replace a FOB?

It would probably be a good idea to request the package when you purchase a new fob. That way you could sell the fob in the event of something happening to your C14 (theft, crash, fire, etc.). That way you always have the number.

 

[Vetterun]

Thanks everyone. I may not feel less foolish, but at least I feel less alone.

I tried a new battery, but my detergent or duration of exposure has probably exceeded even the "wine" test. The board and all the contacts have that lovely turquoise corrosion that may be desirable on a copper roof, but usually spells death for circuit boards.

I agree about the lameness of Kawasaki CS response, but I am sure the young man has been coached not to encourage hope in KIPASS bitten owners. I appreciate knowing that Mitsubishi is the vendor of the component, even if restoration is cost prohibitive.

I really do believe I am the author of my personal aggravation with KIPASS.  If I wasn't careless with the FOB key in the first place or the package the replacement arrived in, I would be much happier. Since that is not an option, I am going to remind myself what an excellent ride the C14 is in nearly all other respects.

I am new to COG and frankly blown away by some of the excellent feedback on the Website. It's a pleasure to encounter such kind and knowledgeable enthusiasts. I hope I get to meet many of you in person down the road. Thanks again!

 

[ernie4110]

Since the FOB is trash and nothing to loose, take the circuit board and place it in a cup of water that has two teaspoons of baking soda in it and let it set for 8 hours. Pull it out and place it in another cup of water for one hour to get rid of any baking soda on the board. Blow off the borad with air and let it sit for 24 hours to dry. If that does not work it really is trash and the only thing you wasted is about 10 minutes of your time.

Rash

 

[B.D.F.]

Even if the RF portion of the fob has failed, it will almost certainly work as an RFID fob. This will still provide a 2nd fob even though the transmitting / receiving part does not function. The fob can be used in RFID mode by removing the key and putting the notch in the fob for the key directly onto the boss on the front side of the ignition housing. DO NOT discard your old fob as it probably works, at least in RFID mode. The procedure is also outlined in the owner's manual and makes an amusing read too.

Brian

Thanks everyone. I may not feel less foolish, but at least I feel less alone.

I tried a new battery, but my detergent or duration of exposure has probably exceeded even the "wine" test. The board and all the contacts have that lovely turquoise corrosion that may be desirable on a copper roof, but usually spells death for circuit boards.

<snip>

 

[B.D.F.]

There is a unique and sequential number burned into every wafer used in the control of things like KiPass when it is manufacturered. This is used to identify the specific device later and guarantees that no two controller chips have the same number. Intel does this with their processors for example and your computer uses this unique number as part of the server code so that each and every computer on a network (local or global) can be identified, much like a unique mailing address.

The problem with the system is that this number is not readily available during and after manufacture. What the manufacturer does is to carefully keep track of the number and associate it with the original wafer; in this case, the packaging has the number on it rather than the device itself.

As to Kawasaki or Mitsubishi making this situation obvious enough, they really have not done a good enough job of that in my opinion. Something like a red plastic tag attached to each fob with the number and a warning that you will NEED that number should be used. Perhaps even a sticker that wraps around and inside the fob body itself so the fob has to be opened up to dispose of that tag and number. It is not unusual to open a package, take out the device you just purchased and throw away the packaging. I don't think you did anything wrong, just an uninformed situation that all of us would have fallen into before finding out how that number works from other victims.

Brian

<snip>

I purchased a replacement online, as I am extremely leary of having only a solo that could leave me with a 600 lb. stone, rather than my favorite toy. I tossed the baggie the new FOB key arrived in and went to dealer to have the unit programmed. After a 2-hour wait, I was asked if I had the package for the FOB. Trash was collected today and I knew the plastic bag was now a future archaelogical find, but unrecoverable by me. The service manager kindly showed me a Kawasaki dealer bulletin, which stated the FOB key could not be programmed without the registration number found on the package. The memo went on to say how much of a problem this had caused owners and that the parts department should tell each buyer to record the registration number in their owner manual or save the plastic bag. It said they were working to make this known to all future buyers with changes to packaging, the owners manual or some other notification process, but for now, verbal advice by the parts department would have to do.

<snip>

 

[Vetterun]

Well guys, I have tried most everyone's suggestions regarding cleaning the FOB key board, changing batteries, etc.  I must have really toasted the unit, because I even get an error message when trying to use it in the RFID mode.  The screen shows a key icon, then flashes the following: "Subkey 10 Error." I will research what that code means and post the answer if I find it.

I am sure glad I have one FOB key that works.  Mike and Jamie at Shawnee Cycle Plaza have been great about trying to help also.  Mike reminded me today that you must have at least one working FOB key to program  new ones, up to six total.  He said that if you ever lose or destroy (e.g. wash with "fresh spring pine scent" detergent) all FOB keys, then you are looking at replacement of the related ECU as well.  As near as I can figure, that means about $255.00 (retail) for each FOB key, plus $939.86 (retail) for the ECU, plus $40.00 (minimum labor charge) for reprogramming the keys, plus labor to install the ECU, plus taxes, plus shipping (if applicable), plus .......  The good news is that Kawasaki will sell you a new 2011 C14 (with KIPASS) for not much more.  ( - ;

It's funny, you can get a bus pass, have cardiac or gastric bypass, ride through a mountain pass, but you can't take a pass on KIPASS.  Can you tell I have gotten a little cynical after this KIPASS experience???  Thanks again for all of your help and suggestions.  You guys rock!!!

 

[B.D.F.]

A new KiPass ECU is stingy but not that bad- Ron Ayers lists them for about $815 and the new ECU comes with two new fobs so you do not have to add the cost of them to the total. Of course the unit will still need to be coded into the bike.

I would suggest trying RFID mode again after removing the battery completely from the fob. It is unlikely you damaged that portion of the fob because it is a passive chip and shouldn't be damaged unless you hit it with a hammer. Again, remove the battery and try it in the RFID mode against the ign. switch housing. That fob may be transmitting garbled or 'bad' data to the RF unit while at the same time transferring 'good' data to the RFID scanner. Removing the battery will guarantee it is not broadcasting anything at all. The damaged fob will function as a spare or a second fob if it works in RFID mode only.

Brian

Well guys, I have tried most everyone's suggestions regarding cleaning the FOB key board, changing batteries, etc.  I must have really toasted the unit, because I even get an error message when trying to use it in the RFID mode.  The screen shows a key icon, then flashes the following: "Subkey 10 Error." I will research what that code means and post the answer if I find it.

I am sure glad I have one FOB key that works.  Mike and Jamie at Shawnee Cycle Plaza have been great about trying to help also.  Mike reminded me today that you must have at least one working FOB key to program  new ones, up to six total.  He said that if you ever lose or destroy (e.g. wash with "fresh spring pine scent" detergent) all FOB keys, then you are looking at replacement of the related ECU as well.  As near as I can figure, that means about $255.00 (retail) for each FOB key, plus $939.86 (retail) for the ECU, plus $40.00 (minimum labor charge) for reprogramming the keys, plus labor to install the ECU, plus taxes, plus shipping (if applicable), plus .......  The good news is that Kawasaki will sell you a new 2011 C14 (with KIPASS) for not much more.  ( - ;

It's funny, you can get a bus pass, have cardiac or gastric bypass, ride through a mountain pass, but you can't take a pass on KIPASS.  Can you tell I have gotten a little cynical after this KIPASS experience???  Thanks again for all of your help and suggestions.  You guys rock!!!

 

[bdhszy1]

I bought my 08 used and the original owner said he only had one fob. I too was afraid of riding without a spare, so I bought a mini, RFID only fob for a 2010 for about $35 and had it programed. The nice thing about the small unit is it can be put on a key ring or easily hidden on the bike.

 

[Cap'n Bob]

I bought my 08 used and the original owner said he only had one fob. I too was afraid of riding without a spare, so I bought a mini, RFID only fob for a 2010 for about $35 and had it programed. The nice thing about the small unit is it can be put on a key ring or easily hidden on the bike.

I like the idea of hiding it on the bike. That fob has to be used near the ignition switch. So hiding it under the seat of someplace similar is a good back up. You just need to hide a key to get under the seat to get to it!
I use to do this with my spare fob. It was wrapped in aluminum foil to prevent it from transmitting. And in a plastic bad to keep the weather out (more to keep it clean). I had a spare key hidden on the bike as well. That way if I lost the fob. I could get to the spare and get home.  I see the credit card fob as being perfect for this solution. 

 

[mcgyver74]

I have a 2010, I have 1 main FOB and 1 RFID,  I will be getting an additional RFID FOB to carry while 1 stays safely in the safety deposit box, this way even if I lose both the FOB and the RFID i can still code another to the bike)

Some Kipass Knowledge that B.D.F imparted on me at the Spring fling...

1) You actually don't need to have an actual RF FOB to program another FOB,  having the RFID tag WILL suffice to let the dealer code another FOB

2) there are 6 RF Fob slots in the ECU total and each slot can be programmed for 1 FOB,  and once a slot is used it can never be reclaimed,  So if you  have 6 Fob's programmed and somehow lose 5 FOB's you can never add another  RF fob,

3) HOWEVER,  the RFID slots CAN be reused so even if you lose all but 1 RFID chip you can code more

(Did I get that right Brian?)

 

[Cap'n Bob]

I have a 2010, I have 1 main FOB and 1 RFID,  I will be getting an additional RFID FOB to carry while 1 stays safely in the safety deposit box, this way even if I lose both the FOB and the RFID i can still code another to the bike)

Some Kipass Knowledge that B.D.F imparted on me at the Spring fling...

1) You actually don't need to have an actual RF FOB to program another FOB,  having the RFID tag WILL suffice to let the dealer code another FOB

2) there are 6 RF Fob slots in the ECU total and each slot can be programmed for 1 FOB,  and once a slot is used it can never be reclaimed,  So if you  have 6 Fob's programmed and somehow lose 5 FOB's you can never add another  RF fob,

3) HOWEVER,  the RFID slots CAN be reused so even if you lose all but 1 RFID chip you can code more

(Did I get that right Brian?)

Your have learned well young Jedi! The one part I am not sure about is the RFID. But what would it matter. If you used and lost the fobs registered in all 6 slots for the KIPASS ECU. Then you would either have to always use a RFID to start the motorcycle. Or replace the KIPASS ECU (that comes with two fobs (IIRC).
I seriously doubt that anyone would want to use the RFID slot for the rest of the bikes life. So it's really a moot point, other than the fact the the RFID should get you home! You would pretty much need to spring for a new ECU and programing!    :sorry:



Just a note. Replacement keys on a standard ignition are by far easier to replace or make spares of, and in most cases, much less expensive. Sorry, I just had to point that out!  )

 

[B.D.F.]

Yeah, I believe that is how it works. Also because there are two different authentication systems on the bike, it acts differently depending on which one you use. If you use the RF part of KiPass (the radio part where the fob is some distance away from the bike), the system will 'ping' the fob at several different times once the bike is started; when you pass 12 MPH, when shifted into 6th gear and similar (going by memory here). But if you use the RFID portion of KiPass, the system does NOT look for the fob to be there at any time again after initial starting. This is because they know you cannot ride around holding a fob against the ign. switch housing.

Brian

I have a 2010, I have 1 main FOB and 1 RFID,  I will be getting an additional RFID FOB to carry while 1 stays safely in the safety deposit box, this way even if I lose both the FOB and the RFID i can still code another to the bike)

Some Kipass Knowledge that B.D.F imparted on me at the Spring fling...

1) You actually don't need to have an actual RF FOB to program another FOB,  having the RFID tag WILL suffice to let the dealer code another FOB

2) there are 6 RF Fob slots in the ECU total and each slot can be programmed for 1 FOB,  and once a slot is used it can never be reclaimed,  So if you  have 6 Fob's programmed and somehow lose 5 FOB's you can never add another  RF fob,

3) HOWEVER,  the RFID slots CAN be reused so even if you lose all but 1 RFID chip you can code more

(Did I get that right Brian?)

 

[Vetterun]

Hi guys.  I wanted to get back to you regarding my continuing KIPASS saga.  I tried Brian's suggestion and removed the battery of my well-washed FOB key, then tried RFID mode again.  Unfortunately, I still get the "Subkey 10 Error" message even with the FOB key sans battery.  The idea made perfect sense and I appreciate the thought.  I am willing to give most anything a try, but I suspect the "Subkey10 Error" message really means 666 or something else equaly satanic.  I have not been able to determine any other possible meaning, but will give Kawasaki support another ring today.  Also, I appreciate RR's suggestion on acquiring one of the small 2010 RFID only cards.  The price is much more reasonable, but I am not sure if it is compatible with my 2008 C14 KIPASS ECU.  It gives me another topic of discussion with Kawasaki tech support.  I will let you know what they have to say.  Thanks again for your persistent and much appreciated ideas.

 

[Cap'n Bob]

Other people with 08-09 C14's have already purchased the credit card version  and had programmed to the bike without issues. So yes it can be done for your 08.

Hi guys.  I wanted to get back to you regarding my continuing KIPASS saga.  I tried Brian's suggestion and removed the battery of my well-washed FOB key, then tried RFID mode again.  Unfortunately, I still get the "Subkey 10 Error" message even with the FOB key sans battery.  The idea made perfect sense and I appreciate the thought.  I am willing to give most anything a try, but I suspect the "Subkey10 Error" message really means 666 or something else equaly satanic.  I have not been able to determine any other possible meaning, but will give Kawasaki support another ring today.  Also, I appreciate RR's suggestion on acquiring one of the small 2010 RFID only cards.  The price is much more reasonable, but I am not sure if it is compatible with my 2008 C14 KIPASS ECU.  It gives me another topic of discussion with Kawasaki tech support.  I will let you know what they have to say.  Thanks again for your persistent and much appreciated ideas.

 

[mcgyver74]

the CC FOB is just a different form factor but is the same RFID chip that is in regular FOB so yes it will work

 

[elektradw]

I recently left my key fob on my seat at a rest area and drove off. When I got to my destination and turned off the bike I realized I was in big trouble. I was able to bribe someone to drive me back with the hopes of finding the key fob for $100 plus gas. I was about 200 miles from home and the spare fob so I was praying on the way back to the rest area. There it was in the roadway in pieces. I put it all back together carefully and it actually started the bike in RFID mode. Would not work remotely though. So I had to purchase a new fob. Reading this thread I started to get a little paranoid. I called the service department and was told that yes I need the package the new fob came in and the old fob to start the bike. The spare fob (flat) still has all the original fob numbers on it but that wasn't needed. Total cost of being a dumb ass: fob $299; rescue $150; reprograming 1hr $116. Live and learn.

 

[Vetterun]

Thanks again guys.  I contacted Kawasaki before reading your latest posts.  They confirmed, for those reading-challenged (i.e. yours truly) that the mini-FOB is indeed retro-compatible with the earlier C14's.  Also, I finally have an answer to the "Subkey 10 Error" message that flashed when I try to use my very clean, very ruined, FOB key (battery in or battery out).  Not only am I dumb enough to wash my FOB key, but I truly can't read.  The error message actually reads "Subkey ID Error."  It would have been nice if Kawasaki saw fit to include punctuation, such as Subkey I.D. Error, but they probably count on C14 owners to have grammar-school literacy.  I obviously don't and won't try to defend myself.  Aw heck, I can't resist - there is a KI-passing similarity in shape bewteen a numeral zero and a letter D for astigmatics like myself.  ( - ;  I ordered the new mini-FOB this AM and promise to not lose the registration number, so hopefully my struggle will come to an end soon.  I also amended my owners manual to read "NO-PASS" wherever the term "KIPASS" appears.  It is a way of reinforcing all the things I've learned about a system I would have happily left undiscovered.  ( - ;  Thanks again for all of your kind support and excellent feedback.  I wish every vehicle and equipment I ever owned had a resource as great as you all.

8)

 

[Vetterun]

Elektra, I feel your pain.  ( - ;  Thanks for sharing.  There is some comfort in truly knowing "to err is human."  I just wish I wasn't so very danged human.  ( - ;  Peace and happy trails!  Russ

 

[Cap'n Bob]

The fun with this KIPASS system never seems to end! 

 

[Z1400]

where
can I get the mini RFID.

Mr. Max

 

[jwh20]

where
can I get the mini RFID.

Mr. Max

Lots of information on this thread: http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,53502.0.html

But this is the Kawasaki PN for the "mini-FOB" that I think you are asking about:

One caveat to this: The bike MUST be programmed to accept this FOB, as well as ALL OTHER passive FOBs including the one(s) in your active FOBs by a KDS system.  So if you order one online, take your bike to the dealer and make sure they have a KDS and the proper cable for your C14 and KNOW how to perform this procedure, and take ALL your FOBs with you.  If they hesitate, then they don't know, you should keep looking for an in-the-know dealer service dept.

 

[Fred H.]

You might want to check with a few locksmiths and see if any of them have a device that can read the code out of the FOB. I know it is possible to do on the TPMS sensors, as I have a tool that can read the ID from it, and I think there may be some tools out there that can do the same for key fobs.  I can't say for certain, because I haven't tried it, but I know most good locksmiths now have some pretty sophisticated tools that they use to program new key fobs for modern vehicles, and I'm pretty sure that the FOB transmit's it's ID code, so all you have to do is get a device that can poll it and read it.

 

[Rembrant]

...and I'm pretty sure that the FOB transmit's it's ID code, so all you have to do is get a device that can poll it and read it.

Yup, it's been done...I think there's a video on Youtube too. Some of these locksmiths (or hardware stores) can read the ID code in the emergency FOB...but not the main Keyfob.

Rem ;D

 

[Rembrant]

Here it is...

Concours 14 kipass spare

 

[jwolffie]

where
can I get the mini RFID.

Mr. Max

Lots of information on this thread: http://forum.cog-online.org/index.php/topic,53502.0.html

But this is the Kawasaki PN for the "mini-FOB" that I think you are asking about:

One caveat to this: The bike MUST be programmed to accept this FOB, as well as ALL OTHER passive FOBs including the one(s) in your active FOBs by a KDS system.  So if you order one online, take your bike to the dealer and make sure they have a KDS and the proper cable for your C14 and KNOW how to perform this procedure, and take ALL your FOBs with you.  If they hesitate, then they don't know, you should keep looking for an in-the-know dealer service dept.

I would look for a dealer that DOES NOT know how to program in a FOB. They did mine for FREE because I had to teach them how to do it. :rotflmao:

 

[jwh20]

I would look for a dealer that DOES NOT know how to program in a FOB. They did mine for FREE because I had to teach them how to do it. :rotflmao:

I like it!  It's so stinking easy I don't get why the dealers have so much trouble with it.  Heck an oil change is harder!

But glad you got it programmed and did some on-site training to boot!