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Race tech EMULATORS

sas mayhem

sas mayhem

Street Cruiser
For those who have them. What color spring would one use,? Blue or yellow. And how much of a difference would it make?  I'm 220 lbs now on my way to 200ish.  Would that be a factor? I want a firmer and more stable feel.  And I have the Race Tech springs. 1.0 and Oil 15 wt.

Cheers
Ron
 
I don't think the emulator settings work the same as fork spring settings, but they are probably impacted by the riders weight. I drilled extra holes in my blow off plate (total 4) so the oil will move more easily through the emulator on small bumps, and went with 2 turns on the blue springs for the blow off preload. i have a very controlled compliant front end now. It sucks up bumps like they're not there, but is very stable, too. Remember that the street isn't a racetrack, and IMO if you hit bumps that destabilise your tight suspension, all you've done is unsettle the bike and ruin the handling. My opinion only - Steve
 
My understanding of the emulator springs is the blue ones are listed as 40# springs and the yellow ones are listed as #64 lb springs.  Use the preload adjustment on the spring to control low speed dampening and the spring rate to control high speed dampening.  -- Emulators do have a fixed low speed port. Most dont mess with that. General consensis is to go with less preload so the spring starts to open sooner to control slow speed. And use spring rate to control high speed from there. -- Emulators also have a separate refill port for the rebound dampening. Most dont mess with that either. Use your oil weight IE 10W, 15W, etc to control rebound. I have read on advrider site about a few guys welding some of the refill ports closed to get more rebound dampening.

Yellow springs with 2 turns preload seems to be stock. Blue springs with 3 turns preload seems to be a popular option. This is supposed to give the same slow speed dampening and a bit more complaint on the high speed.  -- This seems to be a common theme in some posts I have read, where people seem to like the slow speed, and how it soaks up large freeway dips, and stuff like that. But want to soften up the sharp edges like manhole covers.

Talked with the RaceTech guy at the motorcycle show when it was here back in Dec. He said he sets most all his up with the blue springs and 3 turns.

I have the stock yellow springs in there now. I have order and sitting in the garage the blue springs. going to install them with a fork oil change next free weekend. Which looks like friggin middle of July at this point.
 
Thanks for the feed back. Well I went with the blue with 3 turns.  I did a back road and slab ride to see how she handles.  Well ALL of the brake dive is just about gone absolutely no jarring at any speed and she handles the curves with ease everything has smoothed ....... But I think me measurements and/ or were off when setting the size for the spacer .  I say that because even with the preload adjuster all the way out, I have ZERO sag. When I get on the bike the forks don't give, at all. 
But the ride comfort is great. What do I need to check or is this ok?

Cheers
Ron
 
How are you measuring sag?

Zero Sag is not the difference between you on the bike and you off the bike. Which is how I interpret what you said.  Which means the forks are compressed some by the weight of the bike.  Sag is the different between the forks fully extended, front tire off the ground and the forks with you sitting on the bike. You want this to be about 30-35mm.

The forks not moving when you sit on it means you have enough preload on the spring, such that additional weight you add, is still not enough to over come the amount you have the spring preloaded.

Adjust your Sag appropriately is what I would do.  Here is a link to Sonic Springs site
http://www.sonicsprings.com/catalog/setting_sag_street_tech_article.php

As far as the length of the spacer. With your forks fully extended it should be slightly below the top of the of the forks fully extended. Then when you add the cap and screw it down it should be giving the spring a tiny bit of preload.  -- Which is different than the stock springs with stick out and need to be preloaded just to get the cap on. -- Also note, at least the Sonic Springs, I assume RaceTech is the same/similar, do not require all the preload the stock springs did to get the sag set right. With the stock springs you might have been turning the preload adjuster down quite a bit. With the aftermarket springs and spacer set right, you will have the preload turned all the way out and hardly have to adjust it to get the sag set.
 
Slybones said:
How are you measuring sag?

Zero Sag is not the difference between you on the bike and you off the bike. Which is how I interpret what you said.  Which means the forks are compressed some by the weight of the bike.  Sag is the different between the forks fully extended, front tire off the ground and the forks with you sitting on the bike. You want this to be about 30-35mm.

The forks not moving when you sit on it means you have enough preload on the spring, such that additional weight you add, is still not enough to over come the amount you have the spring preloaded.

Adjust your Sag appropriately is what I would do.  Here is a link to Sonic Springs site
http://www.sonicsprings.com/catalog/setting_sag_street_tech_article.php

As far as the length of the spacer. With your forks fully extended it should be slightly below the top of the of the forks fully extended. Then when you add the cap and screw it down it should be giving the spring a tiny bit of preload.  -- Which is different than the stock springs with stick out and need to be preloaded just to get the cap on. -- Also note, at least the Sonic Springs, I assume RaceTech is the same/similar, do not require all the preload the stock springs did to get the sag set right. With the stock springs you might have been turning the preload adjuster down quite a bit. With the aftermarket springs and spacer set right, you will have the preload turned all the way out and hardly have to adjust it to get the sag set.
Click to expand...

OK Slybones you are correct.  I thought sag was the difference with me on and off the bike.  :-[  With the stock set up the front would give so that what I was expecting with the new set up. Nooow you steered me in the right direction.  And my space in almost to the top of the forks too. Thanks a mil

Cheers
Ron
 
Got to my fork oil change today. My emulators now have the blue springs with 3 turns preload and some fresh fork oil. Got some pics will get posted later.
 
that 150mm - 6" in our terms - is measured with the spring out and and the fork COMPRESSED. I'm not sure I really understood the zero sag you have, but if you put a zip-tie on a fork tube tightly affixed, then extend the fork all the way, then get on the bike and sit on it, then centerstand the bike and extend the forks all the way, you should see the zip-tie slid up the fork tube appx 1.375" .
  BTW, I did alot of work to get the settings I have on my emulators - drill a hole, install, ride, repeat, set spring, install ride repeat - but when it's right the front end soaks up everything and you don't even feel stuff coming through the bars. I rode a stocker yeserday, and the difference was quite noticeable . HTH, Steve
 
I've got a '01 with Racetech emulators and springs which I bought with bent forks, so I haven't ridden it yet.

Steve, do you recommend everyone drill holes or would you say that is a matter of tailoring to your specific needs?
 
Great info here with tuning tips. I'm running the stock setup (64# spring at 2 turns) and it really helped my front end. We do get the frost heaves on our roads here in Northern Arizona which make a pretty good jar on the front end. I'll have to play around with the other lighter spring and 3 turn preload setup. Drilling more holes sounds interesting too, we'll see. Mark
 
http://www.racetech.com/HTML_FILES/DampingRodForks.HTML

Here is a nice page on RaceTech site which shows some pretty good detail on how dampening rod forks work and why they suck. And then how emulators work.

Scroll down to figure 3.17 and you can see how the 3 areas of the compression circuit effect things. The preload does not change that initial curve or the spring rate, just when it pops open. -- Then spring rate is not changing when it opens, but the rate it pushes open. -- And then more or less low speed circuits ( drilling holes ) changes the shape of that initial curve, with some small effect on when the valve opens.
 
For those wanting to follow along here is a pic of the top of the emulator showing the valve, spring, and the one low speed bleed hole in the top. This is with yellow spring and 2 turns as it came from Race Tech. How I have blue springs and 3 turns.


IMGP6394.JPG



 
for completeness. Looking down from the top you can see the 3 refill ports with the stainless steel washer underneath. Below that is another spring. This is the rebound circuit mentioned in the article.

IMGP6395.JPG
 
Hey Slybones

Your doing a great job with this investigative work.  I'm guess the blue springs are available at Racetech and are you running 10W or 15w fork oil?

 
I don't have any of my old boxes for the emulators, so I don't know if they box came with the extra springs or not. Yes I ordered mine from Race Tech. Cost me $10  plus S&H for about $17 total. I got them about a week later.

I am using 15W oil. This is what is recommended by Race Tech for their springs and also Sonic for their springs. From a tuning point of view, I believe the idea is to match the weight of the oil to the fork spring rate to control rebound. Then tune your compression adjustments from there. -- Just follow the fork spring MFG recommendation for weight oil to match their spring. 

In the article from Race Tech:
Installation of the Emulator does not change rebound damping, therefore, adjustment of rebound damping is made by changing the oil viscosity. Though it may not sound like it, this is still a significant change. In a standard damping rod fork with no Emulator, changing the oil’s viscosity will change rebound damping, but at the expensive of changing compression damping in a similar way. With an Emulator it doesn’t matter what weight oil is used to obtain ideal rebound damping because compression damping can be adjusted separately.
Click to expand...
 
wild man said:
Hey Slybones

I'm guess the blue springs are available at Racetech and are you running 10W or 15w fork oil?
Click to expand...

With my kit (Race Tech fork springs and Emulators) they had the yellow springs installed ,and the blue springs where in a separate bag in the same box.

Cheers
Ron
 
SAS Mayhem said:
wild man said:
Hey Slybones

I'm guess the blue springs are available at Racetech and are you running 10W or 15w fork oil?
Click to expand...

With my kit (Race Tech fork springs and Emulators) they had the yellow springs installed ,and the blue springs where in a separate bag in the same box.

Cheers
Ron
Click to expand...


Really glad that it's all working out for you Ron.

 
Chief- B this is a great set up.  Sooooo much more confidence in the turns without any wobble and it really soaks out the bumps.  Noooo brake dive either, making low speed maneuvering a breeze .  Now I need to  invest with a ZZR 1200 rear shock to tie it all together, when I can.  Thanks everyone for there input.  It looks like I'll be hitting the BRP again these weekend.  >:D

Cheers
Ron
 
To further add to Slybones pic at the top that shows a break down of the emmulator,  The disc that came on the earlier kits had one hole in it.  The newer kits have two holes and two indentation to drill two more holes to further tweak. But of course you can drill the earlier disc if need be.  The hole size is approx 7/67th. And the disc is pretty soft metal, so a simple cordless drill would make short order of it.

The disc on the left is what I had, two holes and two indentations, and the one on the right is after I added two more holes.
After I get me ZZR shock installed I'll let you all know how it rides.
FYI, I installed the blue spring and went 3 turns on the preload also. I'm 220 lbs, so I split the difference between 2 turns preload and 4 turns preload.
allsorts170.jpg


Cheers
Ron
 
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