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Reasons for ATGATT
- Thread starter mcgyver74
- Start date
sharp charge
Moped
Mad River Marc said:Reasons for ATGATT
I agree. :motonoises:
He does have gloves on.....
It also looks like some rash on the side of his motor, I think that might be a good indication that more gear may be in order.
It also looks like some rash on the side of his motor, I think that might be a good indication that more gear may be in order.
Cap'n Bob said:Does it prevent a broken neck or internal injuries from killing you? Sorry, I couldn't resist. Now where's the pop corn because here we go!opcorn:
Ha! Can you say "devil's advocate" ? :rotflmao:
I associate with people who actually believe that since helmets and motorcycle clothing with proper padding and abrasion resistance won't save you when you run head on into a pickup truck at 60 mph, you shouldn't bother wearing them.
Having gotten off a sportbike at 60mph in an uphill turn due to a low-side, and then slid up the road at 40 mph, I can say ATGATT saved my skin, my feet, my hands, my elbows, my back, my face, and my head without a doubt. Without it, I would have been dead or at best, in ER getting gravel picked out of 60% of my skin for a few hours followed by months of plastic surgery.
And still I don't wear good enough gear all the time.
After my recent get off at an "unpublished" highway speed, I can safely say ATGATT works for me. My Fieldsheer leather and Mesh jacket saved me a lot of grief, money, scarring, and time healing (not to mention pain). Landing on the right side of my face and right shoulder, the leather on the right sleeve was worn through as was the mesh and the EC armor was abraided on the pavement, but zero rash on my right arm. It didn't prevent a shoulder separation, but it minimized the damages that could have/ would have complicated treatment and recovery (not to mention comfort).
My HJC helmet and faceshield are toast too, but not a mark on my face or head and no broken neck. The only rash I received was on the left wrist where my glove tore away and my watchband wore through. THis spot was about and inch or slightly larger and is already completely healed. Considering the speed and conditions involved I think this is phenominal.
Three years ago I had an easier get off going on this same ride. I suffered another skinned up helmet, skinned jacket, and abraided gloves, but had zero rash. It would turn up later that I had a broken pelvis, but I "walked it off" and waved the ambulance ride that time. Point being, either of those accidents was potentially fatal due to head contact with pavement and both accidents would have surely caused a lot of skin loss if not for the gear.
I wear it and will continue to as long as I ride. That's my two cents anyway.
My HJC helmet and faceshield are toast too, but not a mark on my face or head and no broken neck. The only rash I received was on the left wrist where my glove tore away and my watchband wore through. THis spot was about and inch or slightly larger and is already completely healed. Considering the speed and conditions involved I think this is phenominal.
Three years ago I had an easier get off going on this same ride. I suffered another skinned up helmet, skinned jacket, and abraided gloves, but had zero rash. It would turn up later that I had a broken pelvis, but I "walked it off" and waved the ambulance ride that time. Point being, either of those accidents was potentially fatal due to head contact with pavement and both accidents would have surely caused a lot of skin loss if not for the gear.
I wear it and will continue to as long as I ride. That's my two cents anyway.
sharp charge
Moped
JimA said:Not me! I wanna feel the wind on my skin! J/k - couldnt resist!
My old bike!!
ChipDoc
Sport Tourer
Is that girl actually barefootin' it? I may be crazy, but I'm not THAT crazy...JimA said:
I'm a commuter here in Florida and I've noticed that heatstroke is as much or more of a danger than crazy cagers. I've also noticed that all of the ventilation in the world does no good whatsoever if you're sitting in afternoon rush for an hour and a half - without some forward motion to move air across your body, you're just baking in there.
So as the summer drags on, I'l drop the riding pants and boots and go with jeans and sneakers. Once July gets here I'll drop the leather gloves for textile gloves. Someone was asking about a waterproof glove, but I embrace the rain since it cools me down.
Yes I know I'm giving up abrasion protection, but I increase my chances of not dropping her in the first place by staying cool enough to not pass out. Everything's a compromise.
glenjj
Bicycle
Thanks for the post OP (and hot weather comments from ChipDoc) and I wanted to ask how others handle the heat and humidity...I lived in Orlando for a few years and although I am in the Ozarks now (we have hot and humid here too) I wondered how those who are ATGATT handled the heat/humidity issue.
I wear my riding jacket all the time unless I am just going to pass out from the heat (just how I roll). I was seriously thinking about shopping for a more summery lighter jacket as the First Gear jacket I have is pretty thick even with the liner removed.
Does anyone have a good recommendation for lighter more summery riding jackets that still give reasonable protection? Thanks in Advance.
GlenJJ
I wear my riding jacket all the time unless I am just going to pass out from the heat (just how I roll). I was seriously thinking about shopping for a more summery lighter jacket as the First Gear jacket I have is pretty thick even with the liner removed.
Does anyone have a good recommendation for lighter more summery riding jackets that still give reasonable protection? Thanks in Advance.
GlenJJ
GlenJJ said:
The jacket I use is the Tourmaster Flex series 2, available at motorcyclegear.com for under $100. It has 3 layers...the "main" layer is mesh with built in armor; there is a waterproof shell that zips over that; and a quilted liner that goes under. 90+ is comfortable with just the mesh layer, and with all 3, I could use it as a ski jacket.
Thanks
Matt
GlenJJ said:
NUMBER 1.
I repeat, NUMBER ONE (1)
1. BEaded Seat Cover. Seriously. This is THE most effective "keep cool" item I own and use three quarters of the year. (the other quarter I am crashed and the bike needs repaired) <--- that's a joke.... sorta.
2. Get a Camelbak or similar minimalist water bladder that you can fill with cool or even ice water and wear under your....
3. Mesh jacket. I use, and have used for years, Fieldsheer Mesh gear. Now, I use their mesh stuff that has leather too because I want protection. So it is HOT where the leather portions are and you will arrive with sweaty spots at the shoulders and elbows. But the camelbak will help keep you cool because IT is cool, and also you will have something cool to drink when hanging out behind fifty miles of cagers all waiting to take your exit.
4. SHorty shield. You need airflow to style cool. That big shield that feels so good in January will be your death in August (or even May around here with our 90-100* days)
5. If I'm on a trip or it doesn't matter if I show up at my destination damp or wet, then a cooling vest or collar are wonderful. Even just a wet T-shirt with a spot of breeze will put the "chill" on yer skin that will translate into reduced thermal fatigue.
6. Safety sunglasses by day and clear or amber by night. I generally pull my shield off to get the airflow when it's hot and I'll stow it in a "Crown" bag in the saddlebag for protection until I need it. Keep an extra pair packed in a good case ALWAYS. Yes, bugs do hurt and also taste bad... why do you ask? Aren't you riding a motorcycle too?
If I am commuting across town and need to show up looking pretty, cool, and composed... I'll take the cage and run the AC on max. If moist and sloppy is OK, then all of the above are on my agenda for summer riding Houston style. Seriously though... the beads are important. I have used several different animal hides (including the Alaskan Sheepskin Randy brought me back from... yeas, Alaska) and they are pretty comfy, but just cannot hold a candle to the bead's butt AC. It's all about airflow and the beads win that contest as a "no contest" contest.
That's the mainstay of my list and I ride while most others have parked their bikes until fall. Yeah, it can be miserable some days, but with a little planning and the above gear it is really not that tough to deal with. Don't forget to sunscreen your face.
I was amazed at how many riders wore nothing but shorts and t shirts....some even ride with flip flops on my trip up to Arkansas this past weekend . Wasn't Even that hot . I'm guessing they never scraped their butt cheeks off in a crash . I did back when I was young and dumb .Took months to heal completely .I wear a Joe rocket mesh jacket that works well but wish it wasn't black .got a great deal on it used on ebay so can't complain.
tonywaters
Moped
+1 on Rev Riders comments. I love my mesh Joe Rocket Phoenix 2 & mesh pants. They work great for my 30 mi each way commute. I use the stock shield all the way down for my hot weather riding here in South Carolina. Need to give the beads a try.
Ranger Jim
Sport Tourer
When I'm touring during the warmer months I wear shorts and a tee shirt under my Aerostitch Roadcrafter or Darien Light/Darien Light pants. I make sure all the vents are open. Yes, it's hot when I'm not moving but I have plenty of fluids on board in a camelbak-type container. I wear elkskin roper gloves and Vasque hiking boots with wool socks. When I'm riding around home, running errands and such, I wear First Gear mesh gear (jacket & pants) over shorts/tee shirt, elkskin roper gloves and lightweight motorcycle boots (don't know what brand they really are but were offered by Buell). Helmets are HJC Sy-Max II and a HJC IS-Max.
For those who choose to wear less protective gear because "it's hot:" I, truly, hope you never get to find out how uncomfortable it is to crash without it.
For those who choose to wear less protective gear because "it's hot:" I, truly, hope you never get to find out how uncomfortable it is to crash without it.
ejames
Moped
I have the Tourmaster Air Intake II and absolutely love it! My first silver and black lasted me years - only gave it away because the black had faded to purple. I replaced the first one with a more-visable yellow one. If you see a guy in NJ with this jacket sitting atop a black 2011 C-14, its probably this guy! In NJ, we get some cold weather in winter and hot sticky weather in summer. This is my all year jacket with its removable rain liner and Thinsulate liner. If you want an all-season jacket, this is it.
Ranger Jim said:
+1 on shorts under Roadcrafter. When I sent my ZX11 to London, and then ferried to Calais, rode to north coast, road to south coast, went left a little, right a little, the whole time it was smoking hot.
As I got close to the south coast of France, the temps climbed rapidly, even in the southwestern-most Alps.
I rode in basically nylon mesh shorts and a mesh t-shirt, Roadcrafter opened as much as I could, motorcycle boots, motorcycle gloves, helmet. I was mostly comfortable. Sweating by the time I arrived in Antibe on the south coast (Sun Coast) and glad to take the Roadcrafter off.
S Smith said:
Notice the side of a mountain in the background... definitely NOT Florida. :-[
To make this more obvious.... they're turning.
But seriously.... Let's focus on the GOOD.
1) They are both wearing full faced helmets.
2) HE is wearing back protection... hehe.
3) She is wearing a four leaf clover on her shirt.... obviously for luck!
notsluggo
Crotch Rocket
Before you can become old and wise, you must first be young and stupid.
Y'all ain't going to tell me that you've gone ATTGATT each and every time you've swung a leg over a bike. I know I haven't - and I've been fortunate.
I've never been in their shoes (or flip-flops as the case may be) - so I cannot comment / judge other than to say - I probably wouldn't do that.
Y'all ain't going to tell me that you've gone ATTGATT each and every time you've swung a leg over a bike. I know I haven't - and I've been fortunate.
I've never been in their shoes (or flip-flops as the case may be) - so I cannot comment / judge other than to say - I probably wouldn't do that.
Froggerman
Moped
Is it just me or is her helmet strap not cinched properly???
alexx45
Training Wheels
I didn't always ATGATT. In fact I have a couple of pictures on my wall with me riding in nothing more than a t-shirt, sunglasses, shorts & sneakers. Today however I do ATGATT and heres's why: I've had three friends wreck their motorcycles. Two were wearing helmets & one was not. Of the two that wore helmets both of their bikes had to be towed or trailered from the crash site. The one without the helmet had his bike ridden from the crash site. The two that had helmets on were both taken to the hospital. The one without the helmet was taken to the morgue. That was enough to convince me to wear a helmet. The two without helmets would have had much shorter healing times with little more than jackets on. That was enough to convince me that my skin is worth protecting. Yes I'll wear mesh in the summer & heavier gear in the winter. Yes sometimes I miss the wind in my hair & the air in my skin. But then I remember they are called accidents for a reason.... they don't happen on purpose. Having my gear on if I should ever need it does.
slybonesjesse
Sport Tourer
On wearing Jeans in the hot weather. I have a pair of Carharts with CE armor in them. There was a motorcycle magazine article a while back that said Carhart double front jeans were as abrasion resistent as them expensive riding jeans with the Kevlar sewn in them. Of course this is not as good as riding pants, but better than regular jeans. Your standard pair of Jeans are 7oz or 8ox denim. Carhart double fronts are 15oz denim. And have a double layer down the front. I split the top seam and dropped in some CE approved armor from my old FirstGear pants. Then I had the wife sew pockets into the hip area and I put the CE hip Armor in there. So now I have the heavy duty 15oz jeans with Armor.
These are of course hotter than regular jeans, but no where near as hot as my regular riding pants. I dont have mesh pants. I tend to wear the riding pants with shorts on under them for as long as I can. Only when it just gets too hot I will switch to the Carharts with Armor.
I always wear boots and gloves.
I always wear my mesh Jacket. When it gets super hot out there I have an evaporative cooling vest I wear underneath. It will last about 1 - 1.5 hours. Depending on length of travel I will recharge it every other rest area on the freeway. For when out on the back roads, I choose rest / break locations that have water. I carry along a 1 gallon ziplock bag. I stuff it into the bad, fill with water and wait 5 minutes while I am getting a drink, eating a snack, etc.
-- One note on the Carharts. I bought them 1 size larger in the waist specifically so I could have the wife sew in the panels for the hip armor. Not sure it was really necessary, depending your exact fit. But might want to allow for that like I did.
These are of course hotter than regular jeans, but no where near as hot as my regular riding pants. I dont have mesh pants. I tend to wear the riding pants with shorts on under them for as long as I can. Only when it just gets too hot I will switch to the Carharts with Armor.
I always wear boots and gloves.
I always wear my mesh Jacket. When it gets super hot out there I have an evaporative cooling vest I wear underneath. It will last about 1 - 1.5 hours. Depending on length of travel I will recharge it every other rest area on the freeway. For when out on the back roads, I choose rest / break locations that have water. I carry along a 1 gallon ziplock bag. I stuff it into the bad, fill with water and wait 5 minutes while I am getting a drink, eating a snack, etc.
-- One note on the Carharts. I bought them 1 size larger in the waist specifically so I could have the wife sew in the panels for the hip armor. Not sure it was really necessary, depending your exact fit. But might want to allow for that like I did.
slybonesjesse
Sport Tourer
http://store.mm411.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&product_ID=848&ParentCat=228
On the cooling vest I have found these TechNiche ones from SoundRider to be farily inexpensive and work great. This is the standard model, there is also a deluxe model and a deluxe model with sleeves.
On the cooling vest I have found these TechNiche ones from SoundRider to be farily inexpensive and work great. This is the standard model, there is also a deluxe model and a deluxe model with sleeves.
I have a Sedici mesh jacket, and just got First Gear HT Air overpants
On 90* humid days, it is quite bearable for the 40 minute commute I
have. I wear shorts (work uniform) and a t-shirt underneath.
Mesh Gloves cover the digits, and the RF-1100 Helmet get's moist
inside, but is far from uncomfortable. I have no uni-tasked heat reduction
gear.... YET. I do have a fully air-conditioned car for TOO Hot days...
...I jump in the cage on really hot days. Why be uncomfortable? Eh?
On 90* humid days, it is quite bearable for the 40 minute commute I
have. I wear shorts (work uniform) and a t-shirt underneath.
Mesh Gloves cover the digits, and the RF-1100 Helmet get's moist
inside, but is far from uncomfortable. I have no uni-tasked heat reduction
gear.... YET. I do have a fully air-conditioned car for TOO Hot days...
...I jump in the cage on really hot days. Why be uncomfortable? Eh?
ChipDoc
Sport Tourer
I'd really like to put in a good word for my FirstGear Kilimanjaro Air mesh jacket. It's a 3/4 length touring jacket and I love it because of all the pockets and other wonderful convenience features. Sunday night I got to experience another of its great features when I plowed into a left-turning car at 45mph, sailed over the trunk, and found myself lying in the street.
Yes I broke my wrist, but there's not much which can guard against that. But I wound up hitting on my left side right on the armor and it did its job. I didn't even get any road rash - none. That jacket may well have saved my life. Way to go, FirstGear!
Yes I broke my wrist, but there's not much which can guard against that. But I wound up hitting on my left side right on the armor and it did its job. I didn't even get any road rash - none. That jacket may well have saved my life. Way to go, FirstGear!
Really sorry to hear of the accident!
Hope that you heal fast.
Hope that you heal fast.
twowheeladdict
Training Wheels
This is my observation over the years. The more gear a person wears the more risk they are willing to assume. Meaning the faster they will take the curves increasing their risk of a single vehicle wreck.
Careful, defensive SKILLED riders have less risk of going down or getting run off the road or getting hit.
But, there will always be the risk of the unforseen. The animal in the road. The drunk / unattentive / sleep deprived driver. etc.
I tend to wear my gear according to how and where I am going to be riding and the level of risk I am willing to incur.
My gear is all motorcycle specific but some offer more protection than others.
Careful, defensive SKILLED riders have less risk of going down or getting run off the road or getting hit.
But, there will always be the risk of the unforseen. The animal in the road. The drunk / unattentive / sleep deprived driver. etc.
I tend to wear my gear according to how and where I am going to be riding and the level of risk I am willing to incur.
My gear is all motorcycle specific but some offer more protection than others.
I'm sure unhappy to hear of your accident and injury ChipDoc. I agree 100% that the gear is a lifesaver. Are you going to have to buy a car now?ChipDoc said:
twowheeladdict said:
I have to disagree, at least in part, with this assessment though you are very correct on most of your observations. The more gear, the more one is willing to assume risk is a fallacy in most case, but I cannot see it as a universal rule. I DO agree that there are those for whom that is true. There are also those who will assume ANY risk regardless of gear who are also as likely if not MORE likely to get into that single vehicle accident. But I believe that MANY single vehicle accidents happen to NEW or less experienced riders who just get into a situation and haven't the skill or knowledge to escape it. The guy you describe might overcook his corner and lose it, but that's really a very small segment of motorcycle accidents I think. And if two riders go into a corner hot, one in gear the other without, the one who is overconfident in his gear's ability to save him will still have a cooler head than the one who does not and cannot have that gear induced confidence (even if it's an ill informed confidence, at least he's not going to panic for fear of injury or death).
This is VERY true and IMHO the first and foremost reason I wear gear. I would add to that list though, every car on the road, every patch of sand and gravel that somehow shows up, road gators, road snakes, and just about every other molecule on the planet. THIS is the real deal. Because virtually all of life is unforseen, we have insurance of every kind. You buy insurance for your home, your car, your income, your life, but none of those pay off until the unforseen happens. It's hard to write those checks each month because you cannot see what your getting but the only reason you can't see what your getting is because it's "unforseen". I like those Allstate commercials and that "mayhem, like me" guy... He's around every curve and waiting at every intersection. Alll of th skill, all of the preparation in the world won't save you from him... sometimes he's gonna rule your world. For those times is why you buy insurance and for those times is why you wear gear.
Every time you throw a leg over that sucka you assume all the risk that exists... life and death, drunks on the road, deer in the headlights, cell phone soccer moms in traffic, someone putting on their makeup or reading the newspaper or texting or spilling oil and this list can go on and on and on. So my take is this... IF I am assuming a life and death risk every single time due to the unforseen, why not take out the insurance?
For me, personally, I know that changing what I wear changes the feel and operation of the bike. IF I want to be as confident and safe as possible, my preparation includes being completely comfortable riding in my gear so that the feel of gloves or boots or riding pants or an armored jacket is my NORMAL when on the bike. Then I am set free to concentrate on looking for the unseen mayhem dude. My $23.97 on that one.
twowheeladdict
Training Wheels
Rev Ryder said:
You see in my post that I do wear gear. I just can't wear full race leathers all the time and let's face it, full race leathers offer the highest level of protection currently available. They even have airbag equipped full race leathers.
Sometimes a modular helmet, kevlar lined jeans, mesh jacket, perforated gloves, and over the ankle motorcycle boots are what I choose to wear. Sometimes it is just too hot to zip up that jacket, but I guess you have to weigh risk vs enjoyment. If one is miserable while riding is that considered enjoyment? Since I ride all year round I have to pick and choose my battles. Some days I am prepared for Mayhem and some days I am not. I guess that is just part of the risk / reward game we all play when we decide to ride on two wheels.
Well said Twowheeladdict... and I suspect most of us are right with you. While I NEVER ride without my gear, I don't own any leathers which are, by far, the best abrasion protection avaiable. We all accept total risk every time we ride... I'd bet few of us buy, and use, the BEST insurance available "all the time".
oldsawfiler
Crotch Rocket
Yesterday when I went to unload my son's R6 from the trailer after the Bun Cooler, I put on my mesh jacket, gloves, pants and helmet. Over kill for backing a bike out of a trailer? Well, long story short. I forgot to put up the kickstand and it hug up on the trailer. Trying to push the bike back in while sitting on it I lost my balance and fell off the trailer. All except my right leg which was pinned under the bike and over the side board. Thought that I broke my leg, but just a bad bruise. My helmet took a good whack on the asphalt though. No other damages to except my throat from screaming for help. One small chip in the fairing edge near the wind screen thanks to my leg cussion.
Anyway ATGATT. ???
Anyway ATGATT. ???
oldsawfiler
Crotch Rocket
The HJC did its job
Here's my latest reason.. tangled with a gator and lost, did a high-side down the middle of I-40W just east of Ft. Smith. Walked away without a scratch. Can't say the same about Ol Connie. FTR-Tip Over Bars don't work when you drop it at 80mph!! :-\
Just found out I'm in the 2012 Aerostich Catalog. ...I'd still rather have my Connie!
Just found out I'm in the 2012 Aerostich Catalog.
...I'd still rather have my Connie!
After 20 yrs of riding went down in ice at maybe 25 mph in a left turn. Thrown off of bike, left side of helmet contacted pavement. Gouges,scratches all over left face shield and left side of chin bar and helmet. No harm to me but my ego. Good jacket, pants, gloves and boots, no injury to me. Can't imagine no helmet!
ATGATT.
Rock
cog 5879
'99 'electric
ATGATT.
Rock
cog 5879
'99 'electric
Everyone knows that old saying about two types of bikers...
...in past experience, years ago, I took quite a few spills on
dirt/trail bikes. I have NOT taken a spill on a street bike to date.
(Knocking wood) This being since last November.
This reason alone is why I wear ATTGAT. It's inevitable, and
when it does happen, I want it to hurt as little as possible.
The previous posts being the 'proof in the pudding'
...in past experience, years ago, I took quite a few spills on
dirt/trail bikes. I have NOT taken a spill on a street bike to date.
(Knocking wood) This being since last November.
This reason alone is why I wear ATTGAT. It's inevitable, and
when it does happen, I want it to hurt as little as possible.
The previous posts being the 'proof in the pudding'
twowheeladdict said:
I have to disagree, at least in part, with this assessment though you are very correct on most of your observations. The more gear, the more one is willing to assume risk is a fallacy in most case, but I cannot see it as a universal rule. I DO agree that there are those for whom that is true. There are also those who will assume ANY risk regardless of gear who are also as likely if not MORE likely to get into that single vehicle accident. But I believe that MANY single vehicle accidents happen to NEW or less experienced riders who just get into a situation and haven't the skill or knowledge to escape it. The guy you describe might overcook his corner and lose it, but that's really a very small segment of motorcycle accidents I think. And if two riders go into a corner hot, one in gear the other without, the one who is overconfident in his gear's ability to save him will still have a cooler head than the one who does not and cannot have that gear induced confidence (even if it's an ill informed confidence, at least he's not going to panic for fear of injury or death).
I'm gonna have to agree with Snarf here, I don't think that just because a person wears more gear they are going to ride more dangerously, The people who are inclined to ride fast like that will do it gear or no gear. Once in a blue moon I see a rider wearing ATGATT riding stupidly, but that is far outshadowed by the number of kids riding like idjits with a tee shirt and flip flops....
On a side note...the most important part of ATGATT in my opinion is training, How often do we practice our emergency maneuvers or practice proper cornering technique?
Ps, I have the Cycleport Air Mesh II kevlar and I can say it holds up great in an accident, I lowsided in Vermont in front of Mad River Glen ski area (and I am not an aggressive rider) and I walked away without a scratch....
On a side note...the most important part of ATGATT in my opinion is training, How often do we practice our emergency maneuvers or practice proper cornering technique?
Ps, I have the Cycleport Air Mesh II kevlar and I can say it holds up great in an accident, I lowsided in Vermont in front of Mad River Glen ski area (and I am not an aggressive rider) and I walked away without a scratch....
Sport rider
Iron Butt
As one who rides this way and determines gear needs accordingly, I understand what TwoWheel is trying to say here. I wear gear based on the riding I'm going to be doing. If it's just casual around-town, my gear choice is different than if I'm going to be out on the back roads hitting the twisties. As well, I control my pace depending on what I'm wearing. It's not accurate that those who ride fast will do so regardless of their gear selection. There are times I am out on a back road and if my gear doesn't fit how I want to ride, I back off my pace. I will say though, that my gear selection does not dictate how defensively I ride relative to other vehicles, etc. When approaching intersections, or various other cage-type encounters, I'm a pretty cautious rider regardless of being in a t-shirt, or race leathers.
It's unfortunate the rider is only a percentage of the equation. ATTGATT is a
practice that tries to compensate for the other parts of the equation.
Those parts are not consistent, including other drivers, road conditions, weather
conditions, a rider's mental and physical condition, to name a few. It's these
variables that push me towards ATTGATT
You can do everything right.... and it can still go wrong. That's what all my gear
is for.
practice that tries to compensate for the other parts of the equation.
Those parts are not consistent, including other drivers, road conditions, weather
conditions, a rider's mental and physical condition, to name a few. It's these
variables that push me towards ATTGATT
You can do everything right.... and it can still go wrong. That's what all my gear
is for.
Mcfly said:
Excellent comment. Nothing's a guaranty of safety or even survival. You can do everything right, even wearing all the best gear, and still die. The gear is an attempt to bring the balance closer to my side, at least to some degree, in the event that everything goes wrong.
millsan1
Mini Bike
Obviously I can ony speak for myself.
ATTGAT except riding pants when I commute. All other times, Pants, Jacket, Gloves, Boots Helmet.
I do tend to ride more aggressively when I have my full protection on.
I had this conversation the other day with a person in my condo in the elevator:
She: You must be hot in all that gear (it was over 90 that day)
Me: Yeah it is rough
She: It is too hot to be wearing all that stuff
Me: The ground is too hard to not wear it. I dress for the crash, not for the ride.
She: OMG you are so smart and manly, take me now!
OK, I made up the last part.
ATTGAT except riding pants when I commute. All other times, Pants, Jacket, Gloves, Boots Helmet.
I do tend to ride more aggressively when I have my full protection on.
I had this conversation the other day with a person in my condo in the elevator:
She: You must be hot in all that gear (it was over 90 that day)
Me: Yeah it is rough
She: It is too hot to be wearing all that stuff
Me: The ground is too hard to not wear it. I dress for the crash, not for the ride.
She: OMG you are so smart and manly, take me now!
OK, I made up the last part.
necron99
Crotch Rocket
it's human nature to take more risks when we feel more protected. Look at the injury rates in the NFL vs. professional rugby or Australian football. WAY more gear, WAY more injuries.
That doesn't mean EVERYONE will ALWAYS take more stupid risks when better protected. It's just a general human nature thing. Just think in the reverse. Let's say you were FORCED to take a 50 mile route without any protective gear at all... like the guy on the Honda with the girl a few posts back... but without helmets either. Would you take it SUPER easy? Well... if you say you'd take it easy riding naked, then you're ADMITTING that you ride more aggressively with protection. "more aggressively" doesn't mean that you're riding poorly. Some aggression is necessary.
That doesn't mean EVERYONE will ALWAYS take more stupid risks when better protected. It's just a general human nature thing. Just think in the reverse. Let's say you were FORCED to take a 50 mile route without any protective gear at all... like the guy on the Honda with the girl a few posts back... but without helmets either. Would you take it SUPER easy? Well... if you say you'd take it easy riding naked, then you're ADMITTING that you ride more aggressively with protection. "more aggressively" doesn't mean that you're riding poorly. Some aggression is necessary.
- i have a FLSTC and the C14 , so have a bit of perspective here.
- when i am on the HD , its not ATGATT , but its not bare-backed riding either. Ie, will ride appropriately to the amount of gear that is on at the time. So, cornering speeds , gaps , etc - all are dealt with more conservatively.
- on the C14 , its usually full ATGATT. Simply because the bike can get a rider into serious trouble , very quickly. Again , will ride appropriate to the gear i have on - speeds and gaps are dealt with more aggressively.
- i think most riders are like that (whether they will admit it or not).
- as for the "covering all/most eventualities" type arguments ... heck .. we ride motorcycles ...
.
- when i am on the HD , its not ATGATT , but its not bare-backed riding either. Ie, will ride appropriately to the amount of gear that is on at the time. So, cornering speeds , gaps , etc - all are dealt with more conservatively.
- on the C14 , its usually full ATGATT. Simply because the bike can get a rider into serious trouble , very quickly. Again , will ride appropriate to the gear i have on - speeds and gaps are dealt with more aggressively.
- i think most riders are like that (whether they will admit it or not).
- as for the "covering all/most eventualities" type arguments ... heck .. we ride motorcycles ...
.
I was taught this long ago.. 'Only expose the skin you are willing to lose'. So, I sweat alot.. When I was in my 20's, I moved to
a new town, and was cruisin' around getting the lay of the land. Saw a street coming up on the right, and took it. As I was in
a full lean, head up, about 40 feet from the corner that I just passed were two signs, one on each side of the road, both pointed
in my direction, and both with the print "DO NOT ENTER ONE WAY". I didn't even get out 'oh $hit', when my focus from the signs
shifted down the road to two sets of headlights coming at me. I had no choice but to lay the bike down right then. The gloves,
helmet and jacket saved my hide, and the engine guards saved my leg from being ground to a pulp. Oh, what an idiot I felt like.
After I picked up my Honda 750 four LTD, pushed her to the side of the road, I collected my thoughts and calmed down. I re-evaluated
the whole scenario and honestly there was no way for me to see those signs unless I was riding by the street and looked down it,
or by doing exactly what I did, and turned down the street. But that's another debate. As for this, ATGATT saved me from everything
except embarrassment. I rode her home with just a few scratches as a reminder. I still believe it's a choice to wear gear or not, but
for the folks that choose not to wear it, please think of your family and friends that have to deal with your decision. That's when the 'if only'
statements come out. Please change that to the 'if I hadn't worn it', and save some sorrow and grief for those that love you..
a new town, and was cruisin' around getting the lay of the land. Saw a street coming up on the right, and took it. As I was in
a full lean, head up, about 40 feet from the corner that I just passed were two signs, one on each side of the road, both pointed
in my direction, and both with the print "DO NOT ENTER ONE WAY". I didn't even get out 'oh $hit', when my focus from the signs
shifted down the road to two sets of headlights coming at me. I had no choice but to lay the bike down right then. The gloves,
helmet and jacket saved my hide, and the engine guards saved my leg from being ground to a pulp. Oh, what an idiot I felt like.
After I picked up my Honda 750 four LTD, pushed her to the side of the road, I collected my thoughts and calmed down. I re-evaluated
the whole scenario and honestly there was no way for me to see those signs unless I was riding by the street and looked down it,
or by doing exactly what I did, and turned down the street. But that's another debate. As for this, ATGATT saved me from everything
except embarrassment. I rode her home with just a few scratches as a reminder. I still believe it's a choice to wear gear or not, but
for the folks that choose not to wear it, please think of your family and friends that have to deal with your decision. That's when the 'if only'
statements come out. Please change that to the 'if I hadn't worn it', and save some sorrow and grief for those that love you..
cra-z1000 said:
:iagree:
It's all about risk management and the only thing we can do is be properly prepared... We need to be mentally prepared, well rested, and alert to effectively use street strategies such as the Search, Evaluate, Execute that MSF teaches. The practice of wearing protective riding gear on each ride is also important. Each ride imposes a similar risk, no matter what bike, speed or roads. Last, but not least we need to be sure our motorcycle is well maintained and prepared to ride.
ChipDoc
Sport Tourer
Rev Ryder said:
Well it was either that or walk the 30 miles to work. I actually ended up with a little stretch-cab pick-em-up truck - a 98 GMC S10 Sonoma. It's nice having a little more cargo room than Connie provides.
Of course I also have an 01 and an 02 Connie. I'll get them fixed up and rideable now that I don't have to depend on them for transportation. I've got to admit that it's nice to be able to make that hour and a half commute in air conditioning. Perhaps I'll wait until winter before riding again. Winter is GREAT riding weather here in Florida!
AC in South Texas is essential to survival in these summer months. LOL I'm spoiled. I drive a Suzuki Grand Vitara. It's my beach buggy for when I go shark fishin'... which is as often as I can. Caught a nice lil bull off the Waverunner the other day. The wife prefers me ski-ing over riding. And right now, I don't have a shifting foot anyway. LOL
When I'm working real hard on something, trying to meet a deadline or whatever, I sometimes find my eyeglasses have gotten filthy to the point that it's become hard to see through them. I try to use clean eyeglasses as an indicator of how well I'm balancing my needs against the job I'm trying to finish, understanding that the dirtier my glasses get the harder it is to do the job (I'll leave it to somebody else to talk about sweat on eyeglasses).
How much gear you're using might be a similar indicator given that the number one job is really to get to your destination unharmed. I started riding to save money on my commute so adding riding gear costs is a minus, riding on hot or cold days is a plus. The connie's saddlebags really help to have the right gear available when work hours dictate riding conditions but even then there's questions about what really improves safety. If being comfortable keeps you riding too long you can lose the mental focus on riding safely. When I ran onto the grass going around a freeway ramp there had already been signs of problems like missing an exit and then enjoying the lean instead of thinking about traction. I was wearing a helmet, long pants and mesh jacket but only sperry moccasins on my feet... guess what was the major injury? Of course, my low-side foot.
One thing I wonder is why there is no A/C system for riding suits? Astronauts and Jet pilots have had them since the 50's, haven't they, like 60 years ago? I wouldn't expect a full race rig to want the extra weight but a nicely overpowered touring bike should have plenty of power to spare. I web-searched to see what's for sale of this ilk and got
http://www.fastraceproducts.com/page/fastraceproducts/CTGY/coolsuit
Looks like $350 will get you a fancy ice box and some hoses that loop around your chest area. The helmet page shows systems that use forced air and start at $650 or so. I'm not sure if that's a good price for what it is, but they both depend on carrying that box of cold stuff somewhere, not exactly what I had in mind. And then there's the question whether, just like choosing to ride without the gear, is it really safer or is it a brain-drainer that will have you feeling your oats and taking curves too fast?
How much gear you're using might be a similar indicator given that the number one job is really to get to your destination unharmed. I started riding to save money on my commute so adding riding gear costs is a minus, riding on hot or cold days is a plus. The connie's saddlebags really help to have the right gear available when work hours dictate riding conditions but even then there's questions about what really improves safety. If being comfortable keeps you riding too long you can lose the mental focus on riding safely. When I ran onto the grass going around a freeway ramp there had already been signs of problems like missing an exit and then enjoying the lean instead of thinking about traction. I was wearing a helmet, long pants and mesh jacket but only sperry moccasins on my feet... guess what was the major injury? Of course, my low-side foot.
One thing I wonder is why there is no A/C system for riding suits? Astronauts and Jet pilots have had them since the 50's, haven't they, like 60 years ago? I wouldn't expect a full race rig to want the extra weight but a nicely overpowered touring bike should have plenty of power to spare. I web-searched to see what's for sale of this ilk and got
http://www.fastraceproducts.com/page/fastraceproducts/CTGY/coolsuit
Looks like $350 will get you a fancy ice box and some hoses that loop around your chest area. The helmet page shows systems that use forced air and start at $650 or so. I'm not sure if that's a good price for what it is, but they both depend on carrying that box of cold stuff somewhere, not exactly what I had in mind. And then there's the question whether, just like choosing to ride without the gear, is it really safer or is it a brain-drainer that will have you feeling your oats and taking curves too fast?
Well.... To "Air Condition" a suit in the traditional way, with freon and a compressor, you'll
either need a compressor driven by the engine, OR a 12v powered compressor... which might
need 3 or 4 full sized tourers to power... it'll require some considerable amperage at 12v.
So conventional A/C suits for motorcycles are not very practical, or feasible. :-[
(Mind you, jets and rockets have a formidable power supply on board to run the hardware)
That leads you to Solid State or Thermoelectric cooling. Neither of these are very efficient
at cooling, so we're back to the large power draw... Even with a SS cooling system, a pump is
still required to circulate the coolant... more power... I'm not holding my breath for one in the
near future.
As a rider, I run hot, so if anyone wants an effective cooling suit, it's me. I went for a larger
metal suit... fits 4 people, it even has a radio! That's right, I take the car!
The racing type suits you linked to might work, if you converted a Givi trunk or saddle bag to hold
the icy water!
either need a compressor driven by the engine, OR a 12v powered compressor... which might
need 3 or 4 full sized tourers to power... it'll require some considerable amperage at 12v.
So conventional A/C suits for motorcycles are not very practical, or feasible. :-[
(Mind you, jets and rockets have a formidable power supply on board to run the hardware)
That leads you to Solid State or Thermoelectric cooling. Neither of these are very efficient
at cooling, so we're back to the large power draw... Even with a SS cooling system, a pump is
still required to circulate the coolant... more power... I'm not holding my breath for one in the
near future.
As a rider, I run hot, so if anyone wants an effective cooling suit, it's me. I went for a larger
metal suit... fits 4 people, it even has a radio! That's right, I take the car!
The racing type suits you linked to might work, if you converted a Givi trunk or saddle bag to hold
the icy water!
SOme years ago there WAS a AC suit designed for race car drivers. I never had one but they were around. Can't remember the technology though. If it was total loss and use flourocarbons, well, that's illegal these days. Seems like it was something else though. Can't recall. Getting old I reckon.
Here's one that might be nice. EZ PZ design. Buy one or build something similar. Looks a lot less nutso than an ice chest thing. LOL
http://www.veskimo.com/
http://www.veskimo.com/
Here it is.
http://www.coolshirt.net/
Looks like the price is now a third of what it was back when.
EFIT TO ADD:
Not sure what the $179 model gets you. THe free standing one that I was talking about is actually $799. That's even higher than I remembered them. This is the same outfit though.
http://www.coolshirt.net/
Looks like the price is now a third of what it was back when.
EFIT TO ADD:
Not sure what the $179 model gets you. THe free standing one that I was talking about is actually $799. That's even higher than I remembered them. This is the same outfit though.
Looks like they all depend on loading up some cold stuff before riding.
I would like a system that is powered by the bike's engine, quick connects to a carhart-coverall type of garment, and would cool or heat as desired.
I'd like to have a totally non-breathing windproof garment with inflatable seals at my neck, wrists, and ankles.
It should have powered, controllable ventilation independent of wind speed.
They actually make diesel powered ones for semitrucks but the unit weighs as much as a connie and doesn't come with coveralls.
Mind you, I've been talking about a commuter setup, one where you know you'll be 50 miles from home, tired and faced with riding or just hanging out for hours (or days).
Just riding around the block would be different.
I would like a system that is powered by the bike's engine, quick connects to a carhart-coverall type of garment, and would cool or heat as desired.
I'd like to have a totally non-breathing windproof garment with inflatable seals at my neck, wrists, and ankles.
It should have powered, controllable ventilation independent of wind speed.
They actually make diesel powered ones for semitrucks but the unit weighs as much as a connie and doesn't come with coveralls.
Mind you, I've been talking about a commuter setup, one where you know you'll be 50 miles from home, tired and faced with riding or just hanging out for hours (or days).
Just riding around the block would be different.