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Shinko Tire Test - Part 1 and miscellaneous ramblings

dlama

dlama

Moped
Installed a pair of Shinko Verge 2X dual compound touring tires this week.
FR 120/70ZR17 58W load index
RR 200/50ZR17 75W load index

And then I did something I never thought I would do. I intentionally rode 100 miles in the rain.

I visited East Texas Motorsports (an independent Moto shop) who mounted and balanced the new Shinkos on my 2012 Connie. The tires balanced easily with 2.5 oz weight required on the rear and 3/4 oz required in the front.

This is the DLAMA version of a tire test. Very little science and lots of unnecessary rambling. Until this year I have been embarrasing most everyone around me in how much money I was willing to shell out to have all of my wrenching done by someone else. Anyone but me. For some unknown reason I had become allergic to anything time consuming, requiring thought or concentration and certainly would feign injury before I would volunteer to assist anyone in "hold this" while they cut, drill, torch, impact, rip or tear the offending part. I digress...

Coming off Michelin PR3 55 series with 7785 miles on them. The rear was way past due and the front had another 1500 miles (possibly) but the cupping and asymmetrical wear pattern was disturbing me in handling and safety concerns. These were hard and fast RURAL commuting miles with a dozen or so longer days of 200 -300 miles. Many quarter mile fun starts, lots of high speed curves but NOTHING like the blistering of tires shown by some ex-racers in this forum. I must admit I have ridden this C14 hard enough that the top speed limiter kicked in a couple times. But then I started turning it into more of a Metric Gold Wing (wait a minute.. the Gold Wing is Metric). Regardless, the guys that wear out two front tires for every rear tire are basically racing on public roads. I don't even know how to make a motorcycle do that to a tire so I'm not "on the cool". But my miles were hard enough that I decided to slow down ALL of my rides to be able to stay safe and make this a long, successful love affair with the road. I still love my wife and children but this bike is one of my key fobs to happiness. Better than any mood altering prescription I know of and only significantly more expensive. Hide the bank statement, the eBay invoices, the Amazon emails, the Revzilla boxes, and no one is the wiser. I did get a look from my college career son the other day when I was bolting on a new farkle. I had JUST told him we were broke and he was using too much DATA on his phone plan. Never mind that I have spent much of his college fund on a used Metric Sport Touring Machine.

That statement to the college career son went over like the proverbial lead balloon. He is also a motorcyclist and former licensed operator of an R6 that he totalled after the 3rd day. It was his birthday. That 6k down the tubes is what I use as motivator when I think I will wait until AFTER the weekend to insure my motorcycle purchase. OOPS. That's when I looked up insurance information and actuaries indicating the expected life of an R6 after purchase. Hold on to your checkbooks... 6 weeks. With my son's 3 day blissful crotch rocketing (rocketeering?) on city streets only lasting 3 days I believe 6 week average life of an R6 might actually be optimistic.

Back to the Shinkos...

I am checking out this new shop (for me) as well as the technicians with some friendly discussion before and after the tire mounting. The young man is a certified Ducati tech, very proud of his own experience as a "race mechanic"  and had some interesting observations about the C14. I am not sure why I am impressed that a Ducati aficianado is a such a big fan of the Concours 14. At least he is making me feel confident in his skills at this first meeting. But then I heard him talking to the Vespa customer that came in after me, and the Harley guy that followed him. Then I realized... he is repeating the same shpiel for each person that comes in. At least the Scooter guy got some props. I did not know that Ducati built racing Scooters and have their own Superbowl of Scooter races. Apparently the upper end of Scooter Mania are almost as lively and purposeful as the Tifosi of Ferrari. Impressive... This looks promising for future tires at least.

My son (the R-6 pilot) thinks Ducatis are so fast they get speeding tickets sitting at the stoplight. And Aprilia, well if you point those just right before you hit the throttle you could possibly break the pull of gravity and enter deep space. But of course he is 20 and two years experience from the R-6 incident he now possesses the ultimate measuring device for speed - testosterone. He can sense it with his... well never mind.

Like many others on this website I have not been that impressed with technicians in my area, especially when I started working on my own motorcyle and discovered the shoddy work and low quality results from almost everything I ever hired done on this 2012 Connie. It was just 3 years ago I reentered the Motorcycle Owners Association of American Motorycle Operators or MOWAAMO for short. I invented the association 40 years ago when a friend of mine totaled his Kawasaki road/trail bike in front of the whole group that eventually joined my "Association". By joining I mean to say they would have joined if I had put it on paper and created a membership sheet and charged dues. Never the less, this was the first Association name that was created from the spelling of the sound of a motorcycle crash. MOWAAMO was the sound the Kawasaki made as it overshot the jump in entered Kawasaki afterlife so I just made up the rest to match the sound. It's actually pretty cool to get the sound first, then the Association comes later. A little like the Steve McQueen movie "BULLITT". First came the movie, then Ford decided to capitalize on the Mustang in the movie and invented a Mustang model BULLITT later to match the title of the movie. We are in rare air here... BULLITT/MOWAAMO very genius IMHO. But I digress...

After the Shinkos were mounted I looked at the radar and the rain was everywhere around me so I headed North on Hwy 259 to Daingerfield to visit my Father at Windsor Place Nursing Home, about 40 miles away. The roads were very wet and I had never scrubbed in new tires in the wet so caution was the word for the afternoon. I never get tired of the feeling of new shoes for the Moto. It's like getting a new bike again. Every bump feels better and the tires immediately impressed me with the familiar comfort of brand new rubber.

They were warming up nicely and after 20 miles the road dried out briefly so I gently scrubbed them in with some weaving at speed and some nice curves when the traffic was clear. The vibration of the tires was minimal, and reminded me of the PR3's after they replaced the OEM Bridgestones. I always dig in my fingernails through the glove touching the brake lever or other spot that could measure potential vibration. If it doesn't cause pain through the gloved end of my fingernail, it probably won't make my fingers go to sleep. I used this test when I mounted a set of Avons on a 2013 Yamaha Supertenere and rode two times to work and then immediately took them back and had them install the OEM Battlewings and sold the Motorcycle. It was almost like electric shock the pain was so bad on the fingernail and the whole buzzing front end horrified me that I decided there were two things at play: The SUCKY tires and the 2 cyclinder gigantic pistons thumping in a parallel something or other that Yamaha tried to convince me was awesome. I loved the rider position, hate hate hated the buzzfest at any speed over 65 mph. I could have slowed down and enjoyed the bike but DLAMA just ain't wired for slow unless it has to do with work. Then I am the slowest moving creature on earth. The"fingernail test" was passed with flying colors on the SHINKOS mounted on the 2012 Connie.

After the rain rides the C14 needed a good bath. I have always considered myself the best "wash tech" in the world. I take my time and I get in ALL the crevices. No need for high pressure water or anything else that might blow into the seals of valuable moving parts. I scrubbed this baby down with the most gentle of all blends of Automotive Car Wash lotion/bubbles and then I saw it... Mr Ducati scratched the paint of my rims installing the SHINKOS. If I was to put this in my high school daughter's words (or emoticons) FROWNY FACE to the MAX. But these wheels need powdercoating anyway. I read it here in these pages by one of the great contributors. The OEM paint is POROUS. But I digress...

I have ridden two more times in the dry to complete the scrub-in of the tires. They are so comfortable over the small ridges and cracks that I am having a hard time believing these SHINKO tires will last as long as the PR3's that they replaced. The comfort factor is one notch above what I remember the PR3's were and they were actually better when I aired them up to 42/42 for the 2nd and 3rd ride. For some odd reason the "Ducati" tech aired them up 36/38 and that's what I rode on during the rain test.

I know guys don't sound credible when they say "these new tires are WAY better than the last set" because the "last set" was worn slap out when they changed them and any Sears and Roebuck tire would feel good when you are riding on a slab of uneven rubber that is about to explode or separate at any minute. I know it's usually not THAT bad but most of us need to feel the need to spend money on new tires. Explosions or delaminating treads from steel belts are usually enough to convince the wifey that the cash will be spent on something "life sparing".

So this next part is for the moderators, the leaders, the big guys who keep us herded into manageable bunches on the COG. I am sorry. Yes, I am a wordy person who likes to fart around and write stuff that nobody really cares about. But I am a sincere C14 owner who recognizes a Ducati Mechanic when I see one. And my Ducati man said my bike is AWESOME... So that makes me awesome because I own it. But I digress...

If I am not blown out of this forum level membership before I purchase a full membership, please tell my children that I tried... Big Daddy (that's my real name to my children and grandchildren) gave it his best shot.

If allowed, I will bring updates with (or without) the miscellaneous ramblings in a few thousand miles. Next up: PR4 GT comparision with the SHINKOS and the Ducati Mechanic's take on life in the "fast lane". And I might bring to his attention that Ducatis must be impervious to paint scratches on the rims when they get tires mounted... MAYBE NOT.

http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/dlama0514/media/0103186365b0180f8199f6920f967f5ba1e20b445c_zpsnic8paud.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/dlama0514/media/Shinko%20Tire%20Test%202015%20021_zpsyhp8oni7.jpg.html?sort=3&o=5

http://s1065.photobucket.com/user/dlama0514/media/Shinko%20Tire%20Test%202015%20024_zpsfnhpdsbb.jpg.html?sort=3&o=2
 
I must warn you the names may (or may not) have been changed to protect the innocent. And some facts are actually... well... lies to make me look good or funny. That way the Ducati tech won't know and the 180 mph stoppie that the Ducati riders do everyday on the way to work will still be "on the cool".

But I am being straight about the SHINKOS vs Michelin PR3's and then after I wear out the SHINKOS I will write about the PR4's and see if the Michelin mystique is really ALL THAT... Don't get me wrong I love the Michelin tires. It's the $$$ starting to wear a hole in my wallet.

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u387/dlama0514/Shinko%20Tire%20Test%202015%20052_zpsokykuonv.jpg
 
Any issues with the 200's width?  Is it going to rub on anything when you're fully loaded and hit a good compression?
 
But you digress....with enough humorous wordsmithery to keep me reading. ;D

I await your Shinko review as miles rack up.

Sent you a PM.
 
Pilgrim, the width of the 200 is only 0.16" wider than the Shinko 190/50ZR/17 and only 0.39 taller. The Shinko site recommended a 6" wide rim for the 190 and a 6.25" rim for the 200. This got me to checking other brands of tires and I found enough variances to realize the SHINKO 200 is on the smaller size of the 200's I researched and quite similar to many of the 190/55/17 tires in which I could get published measurements. After riding these and flat footing at stoplights I am fairly sure this 200 is actually shorter in height than the PR3's which had me on the toes a bit when I was riding on the Simmons custom seat which was intentionally built to add 1.5 inches height.

The main reason I committed to the 200 was the overall size, the 75 W index weight rating and price all looked good to me. I got these shipped and mounted for less than the price of a set of PR4 GT tires. So far no issues, clearance is good. Unless it grows more than 1/2 of an inch on the left side to the swing arm during summer heat we are good to go! Below are the published specs on the SHINKO Verge 2x.

Front Tires

WPS Part    Load Index  Rim  Diameter Width      Load  PSI Type    Retail Price
87-4083
120/60ZR17 W 55 3.5   22.68 4.55 R    418 42 T/L   115.95
87-4084
120/70ZR17 W 58 3.5   23.62 4.63 R    520 42 T/L   116.95
Rear Tires

WPS Part     Load  Index    Rim  Diameter  Width    Load  PSI  Type Retail Price
87-4085
160/60ZR17 W 69   4.5     24.57    6.36 R    716      42  T/L     184.95
87-4097
180/55ZR17 W 73     5.5      24.8   7.02 R     805      42  T/L   199.95
87-4098
190/50ZR17 W 73     6         24.49    7.44 R     805    42  T/L   198.95
87-4099
200/50ZR17 W 75     6.25 24.88    7.56 R       853    42  T/L     211.95

 
UPDATE: Chicken Strips are getting smaller. After 600 miles these Shinkos are still making a great impression. I can't find anything they are not doing well at this point. Confidence is increasing and the tires are giving me what I expected: Cheap Thrills!

I did a couple of high speed runs and the tires are smooth as butter. This test is not to be relied on for science or engineering. I am not an engineer, even though I know how to spell engineer. This test is for the masses. Those of us who work, who toil, who slave for the big man at the top. (I used to be the big man and now I am just dlama) The voice of reason, the human side that rages against the system, the watchman, the... wait I have to go now, my wife said it is too late to be farting around on the COG.

And I don't want to tick her off since she said we could go to California via the Wild West Route (whatever that is) on the Connie. I wanted to go now (April) she wants to go in June. I told her the air conditioning doesn't work very well on the Connie in June in the desert. But we have all this Air Glide, Air Chill, Air Max etc clothing that should work JUST FINE. I even read that you can get frost bite wearing some of this stuff if it is below 89 degrees. I am thinking you don't even need cold drinks, just put the Monster Go Juice inside your jacket where the refrigerator action is happening. Frosty action and NICE AND COLD... Can't wait.

...Later Dudes
 
I'm a fan of the shinkos as they are a bargain at their price point.  Best price per mile out there and I feel they are 9/10th the tires the pilots are...for me.  I ride moderately aggressive and the rest commuting.... 
 
Scotty, when you say 9/10 does that include mileage? I am looking for some targets on longevity for the Shinkos. I wasted PR3's in about 7500 miles. If I can get similar mileage from the Shinkos I will be richer for the experience. A penny saved is a penny earned. Too bad pennies are not worth much any more...
 
Bought a set of Shinko 011s. UPS man brought them today. Getting them installed tomorrow.
Love the price: $192 total for both. Another $80 for the install, so I'll be at $272 for both. If I can get 4,500 miles out of them, my tire cost per mile average of about 6 cents will continue to hold.

It still surprises me that tire cost per mile for the C14 is about the same, if not greater than the fuel ost per mile. I've never had any other vehicle where that was the case. Not a car, not a truck, not a bike...nothing. But the C14 absolutely eats tires like they were Cheerios.
 
Just got back from 1500 mile trip on my new Shinkos. Like them a lot so far. Rode the Natchez Trace, some back roads of Louisiana, and 600 miles of interstate to get back home.. Wear looks great so far, but we will see what happens when I finally get to some curves. My chicken strips are at least 1.5" now, LOL! Not many curves on the Trace...I think there might have been one in there somewhere along the 400 miles, but I could be mistaken, ha ha.
 
CW,  Nothing like a new pair of  "PF Flyers" to make you feel fast again. We used to get those shoes as a kid and try to outrun cars. I  have the 200/50 size Shinko and I won't be able to get the chicken strips down much further. 3/4 inch left on the rear and I have broken both little drag pegs off. I heard the last one ping off in a tight curve. I think I may have more tire than bike can use. I love the tires but I won't measure the chicken strips anymore and try to soothe my ego by getting them smaller. Front tire chicken strip is down to 1/4 inch. Great ride and grip but for me not quite as grippy as the PR3 in the wet. If these tires last more than 6,000 miles I will be impressed enough to buy again. But next set I'm going to try the PR4 GT set to go from low to high on the $ and see if the value is there. I relish the thought of a 10,000 mile motorcycle tire set for $200 but it just ain't gonna happen. And I enjoy my skin attached to all of my vital parts so I'm not going to ride a set past a certain performance level. When the ride gets squirrely I put on new rubber. No one wants to flop around with a tennis shoe blowout and everyone has their limits!
 
I too opted for the 200-50 series rear tire when I bought my Shinkos. Interesting to note that speedo still reads 4 mph high at 45 mph, based on comparison to my GPS. This with the 200 rear tire.

I used to be annoyed at lack of speedo accuracy, but I rarely dwell on it anymore. It just really doesn't matter all that much.
 
Update on the Shinko Tire Test. 6,000 miles and they are still going strong. Not quite strong enough for my multi-state tour to California so I am going to take them off and save them and put on a new set of... SHINKOS Verge 2x just like I am taking off. I just can't go back to Michelins right now. I really like to change tires in pairs (really not sure why except for the obvious reasons of matchy matchy). These tires save me about $100 per set. And I am not seeing miracle miles from the bulk of the PR4 GT buyers.

Yes I know you can get 12,000 miles out of a set of PR4 GT's but I also know there are those who burn them up in 3,000 miles. I am somewhere in between. I got 7500 from a set of PR3's with the optional B? 55 series rear tire for loaded touring. I will easily match that with the Shinkos. 

The last 3 months of flown by and I cannot believe I have 6,000 miles on these tires. They are still railing in the turns and still decent in the wet. I have ridden in flash floods and light showers. The progressive slip is reassuring and easy to adjust to if you are dialed into the bike. Panic stops are also proof of a great tire.

Here are the tires at installation:





Here is a picture after scrubbing in and finding out there was more tire available than motorcycle. I knocked off the scraping pins under the pegs and still had these chicken strips showing.



Here are the tires after 6,000 miles of various loaded, unloaded, two up and a few twisties in the mix.









I really think I have a few thousand left in these tires but we may ride up to 6,000 miles on the California trip so I am changing out and saving these for later.

If any COG member is rolling through East Texas and needs some "get me home" tires I will be happy to help out a fellow in need. (No charge for these babies if you are having an emergency).

I will post a SHINKO TIRE TEST update only if I put these back on and add to the mileage. For now I am staying with this brand, this size and this model of tire until something changes my mind.

Thanks for reading and HAPPY SAFE RIDING TO YOU ALL.

dlama
 
A follow up to this tire test: I am installing the 3rd set of Shinko Verge 2x tires on the C14. The last set lasted 7,200 miles before the metal belts started showing through on the rear tire. At least 5,000 miles were two up fully loaded and the front still has another 1,000 miles possible but I am changing both. I just can't go back to more expensive tires that don't perform that much better in the wet. This last set was $236 bought directly from a Shinko distributor here in Longview, TX. The Cycle Shack is owned and operated locally and is a great find for me for Shinko tires. They will install them for about $100 which is not the cheapest labor but for $336 I am in business for another 7k of pure fun on the Connie.
 
Yes I know this is an old topic but its nice to find that I can still use Shinko's on my C14 , love them on my C10 and Tiger explorer .
 
Mortech said:
Yes I know this is an old topic but its nice to find that I can still use Shinko's on my C14 , love them on my C10 and iger explorer .
Click to expand...

I have Shinkos on all three of my bikes: Ravens on the C14; 804/805s on my KLR; and 244s on my DRZ.

I have run Shinkos for many years, on many different bikes, and have always been very satisfied. They are hard to beat for the price.

The C14 is the ONLY bike I have ever had for which the cost per mile for tires exceeds the cost per mile for fuel! Shinkos help to improve that ratio.
 
I'm running Verge 11 on he front and 777HD on the rear of my C10 , complete set of 705s on my Tiger Explorer 1200 , never had a problem in 3 years of using Shinkos .
Still watching for further updates from the OP .
 
Ok time for an update. The 3rd time was NOT the charm for me. :mad: The rear tire (200 width) was out of round and had the threads showing on the high side at 750 miles. Front is fine just like the other two sets. Additional BUMMER: The replacement 200 rear tire provided by the dealer AND the rep is also messed up. Less than 3,000 miles and the threads are showing through on the high side of the tire. Obviously there was a BAD BATCH of 200's on the Verge 2x tires. So I'm going back to the tire dealer to get some help on another tire. :-[ Perhaps this 3rd time WILL be a charm.

What I know about tires comes from my background of field services for local industry including a Goodyear Tire Plant that shuttered its doors in East Texas. The factory went from producing 36,000 automotive tires per day but was failing to meet cost per unit goals set by Goodyear. They had a decent spoilage rate of 2% (that's 620 bad tires each day that had to be shredded) and a few other blemished tires that were supposedly safe but maybe not aesthetically perfect.

What I know about the quality control issue with that tire plant reminds me that there should be a tighter reign on motorcycle tires since the safety window is so much smaller. I am beginning to wonder about the quality control issue of bargain brand imported tires.

I would like to hear from other COG members about quality control issues with SHINKO and any other brands you may have experienced. I will start another thread on that subject and keep this post alive with more updates.

All the best,

Denny

 
I decided to try the Shinko Verge dual compound rear tire in a 190-55-17 size since my tire bill is rediculous as I ride pretty hard and burn up a lot of tires. The tire was very heavy, and very stiff, but handled fine, and felt OK. I was happy with it for the price to performance, but it did not last long. I only got 1800 miles out of the rear. Aggressive riding just ate it up. Mike.
 
:-\  Wow Mike! That's a short life for any tire. I've been getting into long distance riding and the hard fact of life about the C14 just keeps cropping up: Sport Touring tires are short lived when you put the throttle to the Sport side of the equation. They eat tires so fast it's almost every oil change! That's ridiculous so I've been searching for some options. I recently purchased a 2005 C10 and installed some Avons in optional sizes and weight ratings. I can tell you this: The stock OEM replacement Dunlops were so slippery you could lock up front or rear brake at will. Not so with the Avons. Now the weakness is in the brakes. LOL. The Avons chosen are supposed to last 12,000 miles. I'm not going to lay any bets but I've never heard of any tire for the C14 make this claim. So many factors go into a high mileage claim... Overall Weight, riding style, tire maintenance, suspension settings, tire BRAND, tire MODEL, tire TREAD, tire BELTS, tire SIZE, etc. The specifications are all over the place and weeding through the technical part was fun for a few thousand miles and a few sets of expensive and not so expensive tires.

My challenge right now is to find anything ( ANYTHING !) to fit the C14 that will give me more than 8,000 miles of loaded/unloaded commuting and/or touring. I came close on my first set of Shinko Verge 2X at 7500 miles. The last 500 were junk miles just to see how long the rear would go before showing the belt. I believe I see the significance in the two bikes mentioned: The C10 is lighter, lower, slower and simpler. The C14 is heavy, powerful, sporty and fast. The laws of physics are working just like I expected (come to think of it).

I enjoy the information shared on the COG and I am convinced that the C14 was a huge step forward in technology but the limitations are obvious. All that power and weight must get transferred through the traction points. The two credit card size contact patches are working EXTRA hard on the C14.

So I think I found my personal answer to the Shinko tire shredding problem with the C14. The answer for me is the C10... HOW IRONIC! The answer can be found in the past. The OLD SCHOOL. I suppose the moderator will need to chasten me with a warning for being OFF TOPIC. Go ahead. Wapp my wee wee for a wandering subject. (Sorry Cheech and Chong flashback) But that's what you get with a TIRE THREAD. It goes every which way because the answers are as varied as the wind.

So I guess I will be ending this thread and starting a new Subject: Long Distance Tire options for the Gold Wing, I mean C14...  :))

Regardless, I will still be seeking more tire options for the C14. I'm removing the Shinko Verge 2X tires today and installing a set of... a set of... Michelins PR4GT's. (Whew it's been 20,000 miles since I've coughed up the $526 fee for these tires (price includes installation). They will hopefully get me through a 6,000 mile tour with my son. We are each going 2up with our better halves at the pillion position. He's on the C10 with Avons and I'm on the C14 with Michelins. May the best man... No better not.

Pray for us... LOL  :motonoises: :motonoises:
 
Well, hello fellow COGgers. A long overdue additional update on the SHINKO tire update and long term test then switch over to Michelin PR4 while continuing the miscellaneous ramblings...

Last April I installed the Michelins in stock sizes on the 2012 C14 and took off in May to the Pacific Northwest via NM, CO, UT, WY, ID, OR, CA, AZ etc. with my son who rode a newly acquired and farkled 2005 Concours 1000 also newly shod with Avons.

The C14 with Michelins now have 8,000 plus miles on them. I am totally impressed yet again with the expensive and top quality tires. I just now started seeing the line in the very center of the back tire that indicates end of life. I have squeezed 500 - 1000 commuting miles out of tires with this line or I have also made threads show in one 100 mile day of hard riding. But the end is near for the REAR. The front is still good to go.

HOWEVER, I did have to spend $100 to get them rebalanced after returning from the California trip (6200 miles). I'm starting to believe there may be a way to get more miles and quality results out of ANY tire via balancing my own tires. I've never balanced a motorcycle tire but it cannot be harder than an auto tire... it just takes a little focus and some patience and the jig let the wheel freely roll to the gravity point.

I've always had a question in the back of my mind every time I pick up my motorcycle from a service shop. I have become skeptical at 57 years old and after being burned a few times. PLUS, I'm slow, methodical and very thorough. Line mechanics cannot be slow and be successful. That's why you find things like: the OLD FRICKIN WEIGHTS STILL GLUED ON THE WHEEL ALONG WITH THE NEW WEIGHTS with your new Michelins. (Did I just say that with my outside voice?)

My thought here (just a concept mind you) is that if someone sold you Michelins at full pop and charged you full installation price by the book, then if they goofed up the balance procedure by, let's say doing something like, maybe forgetting to take the old weights off, they might consider giving you a DISCOUNT or (God forbid) even consider forfeit the labor to do the job right, as it should have been done.

But I paid the ticket anyway and walked away from the dealer who is struggling to keep his doors open... no small wonder, that. Michelins 8200 miles and counting... a new record for longevity for dlama.
 
Dlama, 

What you've mentioned is why I mount and balance my own tires any more.  With my own balancing I'm getting 9000 miles out of the PR4GT rear.  I also replace the front at the same time even though it has tread left, but there's enough cupping that I replace it. 
 
I've been doing my own mounting and balancing for the past year or so, comprising five sets of tires. I have not noticed any differences in longevity at all. But I have saved a bit from not having to pay for M&B, and not having to haul the wheels back and forth to some shop to get it done.
 
CW said:
I've been doing my own mounting and balancing for the past year or so, comprising five sets of tires. I have not noticed any differences in longevity at all. But I have saved a bit from not having to pay for M&B, and not having to haul the wheels back and forth to some shop to get it done.
Click to expand...

The money saved from one time not taking the tires to the dealer bought me all the tools I need to do the job going forward. 
 
Tire Update: I guess I am close to that point now. Pricing the tools I need to do my own tires. By the time I get all the stuff I need I'll be too old to use it. Well maybe not. I've seen a few Craig's List deals where shops are closing and you can get full motorcycle shop tools for $10,000. Lifts, tire mounting devices,  snap on boxes, special tools, everything. I should have at least looked at the stuff. It's a catch 22 for me. I don't mind paying to have it done if I could find someone who cared enough to do it right.

I replaced the Michelin PR4GT rear only at 9,000 miles. Wow. That's a new record for DLAMA. There were probably 500-1000 miles left in the carcass but my disbelief could not take the tire any further. This is also the first time I have ever put a new rear tire and left the old front.

The new rear? I put on a $169 Conti-Sport that was mounted and balanced by a fantastic little Motorcycle Shop in Baton Rouge, LA. The name of the is RAD CYCLES. www.radcycles.com

The owner and his sons are real fanatics and they have a full retail and mechanic shop. One of the sons mounted my tire and balanced it perfectly. They only charged me $45 because I took my own side cases off!

I talked to the owner (Robert who goes by the nickname of RAD) and he talked me into trying the Conti-Sport. I've tried so many tires and had so many varied results I thought, WHAT THE HECK.

I really like the the lively feel of the CONTI and it really likes to enter the turn and after break in has absolutely improved the handling of the bike over the squishy squirmy PR4GT. I suppose all of the sipes in the all weather design creates movement in the rubber so the Michelin PR4GT cannot stay as planted as the CONTI on dry pavement.

The mileage issue will have to be seen as we rack up the winter/spring miles. I'm planning on going to see my mother in California for a quick turn around from East Texas so we will see if the CONTI can burn the slab. It will be a cold, fast and long southerly route about 6 days and 4,000 miles. I've ridden some 7-800 mile days to prep for the shock of the long first day. The Allroad Rukka Goretex clothing and Gerbings heated gear will be used to maximum effect.

I will try and update the CONTI rear tire upon my return. I am riding with a friend who will try to keep up with me on his 2014 BMW 1600GT lol. Happy New Year 2017!
 
Update on the CONTI-SPORT rear tire: I don't recommend mixing this tire with a Michelin PR4 front. The handling completely changed. It got less stable especially at higher speeds. Turn in is very very quick and it falls into turns almost too quickly at speed. Some of you might say, DUH. But I've never tried mixing brands or types of tires before. The CONTI is also completely different in the wet, as in NOT an all weather tire. I never thought I could FISHTAIL this bike in the wet with the KTRAC but that is incorrect. With a grippy front tire and a sport dry rear tire you have a potential problem on your hand. You can't ride with confidence.

So I'm going to burn this CONTI off with some dry miles and replace this tire and get a full set of tires for the Winter California Run.

The only question now is: At 48,000 miles on the clock what "All Weather" tires will I try on sweet old Connie now? The last PR4 GT rear got over 9,000 and the front is perfectly fine with 12,000. I find the nearest rival the Shinko Verge but I'm not so sure about doing the Dual Compound because of my problems of two bad out of round rear tires that had to be warranteed last year.

Does anyone on the COG have a good high mileage all weather tire to stand up to the almighty Michelin Man?
 
I don't know what I was thinking getting talked into this type of tire in Winter. I'm going to try and burn off the CONTI-SPORT rear tire with a 48 hr / 2,000 mile run from Longview, TX - Kansas City - Denver - Sante Fe - El Paso - Longview  during this week's mild weather. Then I am going to try another set of tires
 
SHINKO TIRE TEST update: I ordered a set of Shinko Ravens in factory recommended sizes for my C14 from Revzilla on March 8th for $156 with free shipping. They were bumping my doorstep on evening of March 10th. How can they possibly DO THAT? If they were any faster the tires would get there BEFORE I ordered them.

eCommerce at it's finest. No wonder Revzilla now have over 300 employees.

I'm excited to see if these tires can stack up to my previous expectations from Shinko. I will roll a few more miles on the MIchelin PR4 front and Continental Sport rear - should have near 50,000 miles on this sweet machine by the time I get these Ravens mounted. I'm going to replace wheel bearings and seals with this tire change.

Questions: Any input/ideas on mileage from Shinko Ravens? What about grip and handling compared to Michelin PR4 GT's?

I've heard the trash talk about how Ravens are terrible for "track days" and "peg dragging". If you all have read this thread you know where I stand on all that. I'm interested in high mileage with decent and predictable handling. Mild manners is good enough for me as long as I don't have to change tires WITH EVERY OIL CHANGE!

The Michelin PR4 GT tires have proven their worth to the point that they lasted longer than any other tire that I have purchased. HOWEVER: It was that much MORE painful when I picked up a screw and punctured the rear PR4 with 1300 miles on it during a multi-state tour last may.

It should be noted that I plugged the hole (it was off center about 2 inches from middle of tire.while on the trip and I proceeded to ride another 8,000 miles on that tire and only replaced it with the current Conti-Sport because I could clearly see the PLUG mark wearing down from the mileage.

So the trouble with buying the best is you may be upset if something unplanned happens. Is the superior handling and mileage worth all that extra money? Only if YOU think so.

I'm a little like the Judge at the PIE EATING CONTEST.

"Don't rush me, I'm still tryin to decide!"

 
I get about 6,000 miles out of a rear Raven, Been threw 3 of them & I do change them with maybe another 500-1000 miles left on them. I got 7500 miles out of PR4GT's But they are well over double the price. As far as handling ask anyone who's ridden with me at RTE's, I'm always in the front pack !!!!!!!!!  :motonoises:
 
SHINKO TIRE UPDATE PART 2?
- the $156 PAIR of Shinko Ravens are mounted. Revzilla shipped them to me for free. DLAMA toted the tires to the local Kawa dealer that had messed up the balancing on the previous PR4GT purchase/install. They had messed it up and then charged me to rebalance it later. Well, they just made up for it. The front TPMS Sensor was out so KTPP Extended Warranty paid for the front mounting and balance. Also, supplied them new wheel bearings and seals from Murphs Kits. Also, the front fork seals were out. So I got a front fork rebuild with new fluid. NO CHARGE! KTPP ROCKS.

Let's RECAP (sorry for tire pun). The front tire I just pulled off was a Michelin PR4 GT and it was mounted last April. The bike had Apx 35,500 miles on it. Now we are at 49,840. PR4 front that came off was still smooth and grippy. No real issues. 14,000+ miles is incredible for loaded two up touring front tire and lots of long distance single riding. 42 lbs psi settings, always 😳 in front and rear.  The rear PR4GT got pulled off at about 9,000 miles because it had carried a plug for 7,700 miles and I didn't want to push my luck. (As if 7,700 miles wasn't pushing it 😂 It had some tread life left - estimated 1,000 miles. So the Michelins CAN DO 10,000 miles! And more... for only $565 a set plus mounting...

Now I'm interested to see if I can do 8,000+ miles on these $156 Shinko Ravens. The biggest surprise was that the Conti-Sport was so slippery in the rain. It started showing threads at 5340 miles. Not bad for a $169 tire but the Shinko Ravens at $156 for the PAIR?

💰💰💰Money in the bank and time on my hands. In June we will be going TWO UP to Lake Michigan, via Arkansas, Missouri, Tennessee, Kentucky, eventually to Pennsylvania in June. Will update later...
 
If you're taking requests still, I'd be interested to see how long it takes you to burn off a set of Metzeler Roadtec 01's, and how well they handle wet pavement.

Been contemplating a set.  Decided on a set of Shinko 016 2x's for now.  Bought a jacket at the same time, and the cheaper tires were easier on the wallet, and it's my first first attempt at mounting my own tires, so if I mess it up, I'm messing up a cheap set of tires.
 
GIant81, how are the prices on Metzler?
I definitely want to try Metzler. I also envy you getting up the hutzpah to mount your own tires. I'll put those Metzlers on the list after the wife and I go two up on our Circle the Great Lakes trip in June. These Ravens may carry me through summer if all goes as planned. I'm trying to limit my jackrabbit starts to save the back tire but it's so hard to resist!

The Shinko Raven rear is a little flatter profile with sharper corners on the rear. It feels different than any tire I've had so far. Not bad, just different. I went with stock size (not 55 series rear) and you can feel the square edge of the tread when leaning over. It took some adjusting in my turning skills. I like them so far and they were fine in two rain storms (one was 100 miles of a steady rain).

The front tire has the deep groove down the middle and I've read comments about that being a nuisance on ridged pavement and other asphalt cracks causing the tire to steer along the uneven surface. After a few hundred miles of mixed roads I'm not finding this to be an issue.

So far, $156 WELL SPENT.



 
Looks like a set of Roadtec 01's will run you about $341 on revzilla.  And I think they have a $40 rebate going now so $300 a set for the 55 series rear in an HWM version.

I have a friend of mine that used to bust tires all day at a local farm supply store.  Haven't done motorcycle tires, but after watching the MC garage video on it, I feel it's something I can tackle.

I'm sure he makes it look easy, and it's going to take me all day, but since I only paid like $100 bur all the gear to do it, won't take me many times mounting my own to make that money back. 
 
CW, Do you get more miles out of Verges than Ravens? What is it about the Verges that you like better? I've had several sets of Verges and liked them fine until I ran into a quality control issue and got 3 bad rear tires in a row. That's when I bought the Michelins and set my personal best mileage on a set of PR4GT's.
 
2200 miles on the Verge II and they are toast. I have never had tires wear so bad and so fast, even on my R1. I never liked the way they felt or turned in. Not worth the savings on the Angel GT. I have removed them and put the GT's back on. Lesson learned.
 
I would love to have a picture of Verge II @ 2200 miles and "toast". You must have put those tires on the limit like you were on a MOTOGP test! Of course MOTOGP tires only last one race, and some don't even last until the end. You probably don't need to be on dual compound tires. C'mon... Were you trying to SHRED those Shinkos?
 
They have already gone to the recycle bin. I should have got a photo. Most of the miles was just a few around town, one trip to Cheaha mtn and one trip to Deals Gap and surrounding area. I mean they looked really bad like I had done a track day for sure. I was very disappointed. The last 2 sets I ran were Conti Road Att 2 and got 4800 and the Angel GT the front was shot at 6k but the back could have gone another 1k.
 
I have a set of Shinko Verges on my 2014, and they are great, rain or shine. Pushing 5000 plus miles and they still look and ride just fine. I live in the mountains of WV, and the roads are twisty, with steep grades of up to 10 percent. Riding here requires a lot of in and out of the throttle, high braking, etc.  It is hard use on tires. Not at all like "super slab" touring.

Next set will be another set of Shinko's.
 
Undertaker said:
I have a set of Shinko Verges on my 2014, and they are great, rain or shine. Pushing 5000 plus miles and they still look and ride just fine. I live in the mountains of WV, and the roads are twisty, with steep grades of up to 10 percent. Riding here requires a lot of in and out of the throttle, high braking, etc.  It is hard use on tires. Not at all like "super slab" touring.

Next set will be another set of Shinko's.
Click to expand...

Mirrors my experience as well.
 
I just put the new Verge on the back.
Current front is a 1/2 used PR-4.

My plan is to do a ride with the PR-4 and then install a Verge on the front.
Maybe I'll be able to get a feel of the difference..

Good/bad plan??

Ride safe, Ted
 
Ted,

I'm still a new guy on the COG. But I love to  iterate these things. Others may chime in here. That will be an interesting test. Same type of tire (all weather) but different brands. I have mixed brands front/rear tires a couple times with "mixed" results. Recently bad results because I put on a new sport tire on the rear and left a high mileage all weather tire (PR4GT) up front. It was rather squiggly in the wet as the front stayed planted and the rear traction control was working overtime. I was happy to burn a rear Conti off in ~ 5,000 miles and mount the Ravens I have now.

These Ravens are still growing on me. They are nimble. I just got my forks serviced so things are diffferent up front with the forks back to stock function at 50k miles. But the Ravens are also not as good in the wet as I hoped. I might be pushing harder to test them and the rains so far have been light which makes the East Texas roads slick. So I'm still in the first 1.000 miles. We will see when we make our trip around Lake Michigan, Lake Huron in June.

Predictability in handling is a fact and a reality for end users. The mental aspect and perceptions come into play too, but it's a real engineering point and something I believe all tire companies are constantly testing. Impromptu switch ups in the field by riders requantifies all of that testing the manufacturer has done and then we become the test pilots. Then we get to share the info on the COG. The opinions become louder than the math and engineering in many cases.

When the best contributors give their input to the COG some of us listen. Others could care less. But I enjoy the opportunity to make a decision based on input. The value is in the HEARING and the DOING.


"In the end it's your butt on the seat pinching the foam."

Be safe out there...

One thing I DON'T mess with is tire pressures. 42/42 is my point of reference. I know there are some variances for reasons I can't/don't/won't understand but I'm doing just fine with 42/42.


Right now it seems to be the Pirelli ANGELS in regular or A spec are doing the most things right for the most people riding C14s and other ST bikes too.

But then I realize most of the people that love the Pirelli tires are also riding the C14 like it is on FIRE at least some/most of the time. The suspension upgrades, the EVO flash (yes I want one of those) all to tweak the bike so they can ENJOY IT.

One of the main reasons I don't think I could ever go to a COG Rally? I don't want to crash my motorcycle watching all the other motorcycles. 😂😂😂

BTW... I've got to try a set of those ANGELS  after I burn through these Ravens, then a set of Metzlers (just because I said I would). Should be on the Pirellis before Fall 2017? That means I will have 62-65,000 miles on this beast by then? Maybe not, we will see...

Another long post for the records... I'm going for a ride!
 
dlama; I bought the Shinko as a spare tire when we recently did Cliff's ride in Arkansas.
Turned out I didn't need it,  but it was close!
            But I have it,,, sooo, I'm gonna give it a try.

You sed: One of the main reasons I don't think I could ever go to a COG Rally? I don't want to crash my motorcycle watching all the other motorcycles.

Most of the Riders are not riding the C14 like it is on FIRE.
Many are riding briskly, but not like you might think from the discussions on the Forum.
Heck I keep up reasonably well, and I'm old and slow...
If I have to ride above my pace,,, I let them go on... Not a problem.
You really need to do a COG Ride. I highly suggest a COG National! (or the next Ark ride...)

The reason I'm interested in putting the Shinko on the C-14 is cost.. {ie: I'm cheap}
  I wore out the stock tire in 4300 miles.
  I paid for the Michelin's expecting better mileage and better handling.
  Mileage; They did better, but not a lot better. (rear gone in 5000, front has about 1/2 - 1/3 left)
  Handling; Better. But not OMG, those were way better than the stockers.
    NOTE: I'm not a fire breather, just enjoy riding a bit brisk.

  I plan to see what the Shinko's do mileage wise. If they make it to 4000, and if they handle ok (ie; don't scare me to death) they
      might be a good option. Time will tell...

Ride safe, Ted
 
Thanks Ted. I would like to do the COG National or any rally meet. But it's just not likely to happen. My time for riding is so limited and I'm so SELFISH... actually I'm henpecked and I have a beautiful wife and 8 children, (now grown) and 12 grandchildren and counting. The wife loves to go on long trips with me two up but these are for getting away since we spend so much time with family. So I have to get my kicks on the COG writing about things like Shinko Tire Tests, learning, reading and RIDING when I can.

There is however, one possibility of us heading up through Lake Ozark, MO during the Nationals since that is our general direction and date for our Circle the Great Lakes Tour we have devised for June this year. But if I pre-register it will jinx the whole thing. I have to ease up there and pretend like it's a total unexpected COINCIDENCE...

"What a nice RESORT AREA. Wow, Lots of MOTORCYCLES... they must have had the same idea we did honey!"

One can only HOPE...
 
Well, to extend this test, I just had a pair of Shinko's installed on my 2011 C14. I have NOT had time to run the mold release off yet, but will get a few miles on today. The Dunlops that were on the bike when purchased in Dec. 2016 were almost gone, and I have a 3.5K, six day ride in about three weeks. I'll report back after and let everyone know what I think of the tires. I know I'll probably go to the Angels, but I wanted to see how these work out, as the Shinko is the ONLY tire company that makes a rear for my 1978 XS1100 Yamaha.
 
dlama said:
Thanks Ted. I would like to do the COG National or any rally meet. But it's just not likely to happen. My time for riding is so limited and I'm so SELFISH... actually I'm henpecked and I have a beautiful wife and 8 children, (now grown) and 12 grandchildren and counting. The wife loves to go on long trips with me two up but these are for getting away since we spend so much time with family. So I have to get my kicks on the COG writing about things like Shinko Tire Tests, learning, reading and RIDING when I can.

There is however, one possibility of us heading up through Lake Ozark, MO during the Nationals since that is our general direction and date for our Circle the Great Lakes Tour we have devised for June this year. But if I pre-register it will jinx the whole thing. I have to ease up there and pretend like it's a total unexpected COINCIDENCE...

"What a nice RESORT AREA. Wow, Lots of MOTORCYCLES... they must have had the same idea we did honey!"

One can only HOPE...
Click to expand...

Did you make it to the Rally?
If no, next year it will be in Kerrville Texas..  hint hint

Diver ray, I also have a Shinko {Verge II} on the bike. So far, so good...

Ride safe, Ted
 
No Ted, sorry to say I did not make it anywhere near the Nationional Rally. We decided to change our travel plans and we went west from Longview, TX to Cimmaron, NM and took Hwy 64 west and enjoyed a scenic trip to HWY 550 (the million dollar highway) in CO all the way past Grand Junction, CO Then took 139 (the lost Hwy) North up over Douglas Mountain Pass into Vernal, Utah on our way to Jackson, WY. 
The Shinko Ravens are doing better than expected on wear, but worse than I expected on handling. A little skiddish and less confidence inspiring than Michelins PR4GT or the Shinko Verge 2X. But no real issues for two up, high speed loaded touring during the 3500 miles of mountains and canyons along with some slab burning home.
 
I'm running the Verge 011's although the new front is still lying on the floor. Got about 1500mi on the rear, 180-55 (no two up riding so 180 is probably fine) with just a hint of starting to square off. I haven't pushed it hard but in brisk twisties it does well. Feel of the bike hasn't changed since the worn Angel GT front is still on. I'm gonna stay away from dual compound fronts which is why I tried the 011's. The dual compound produces that weird crown wear pattern once worn some. The Angels were like magic new but at 2000 miles the front started hurting that wonderful turn-in the new ones produce. Squaring off a front  (or whatever the dual compound does) does not seem like the hot ticket. I'm not riding a lot due to family/work obligations but will probably put on another 2500 miles before it gets cold. We'll see how the Verges do. Got to get the front installed!
 
You gave me the perfect opportunity to say something that's a bit controversial...
Ya'll know how much I hate saying controversial things.  ;)
Nay-sayers, {brace yourselves} "here it comes"...

If the tire is not handling right, and has a flat spot with crowns on both sides, or it is cupping,,,
    Raise the front of the bike and reshape the profile of the tire with a body grinder...
      ie; Grind the crown points, smooth the cups, and make the profile round again.

Let the flames begin..

Ride safe, Ted
 
It will improve the ride during the last miles you travel on the tire.

Try it.
      If I'm wrong, it's Harry Martin's fault!

Ride safe, Ted
 
Well, I've put about 4.5K on the Shinko's, and so far so good. I DID have a problem with the front feeling "loose" part of the time, but after I pulled the front tire and replaced rotors/pads, it's better. The reason was NOT the rotors, though. I think the shop made a mistake when putting the front wheel back on. I noticed the axle flange was against the outside stops on both sides of the forks. When I installed the tires, I tightened the axle and THEN tightened the clamps, and I have about 2-3mm on each side. The bike is MUCH better in the sweeping corners now, and no loose feeling in the front end. Tires look about 1/3 worn, and as part of the trip was close to triple digits on both air and speed, that's not bad!
 
connie_rider said:
You gave me the perfect opportunity to say something that's a bit controversial...
Ya'll know how much I hate saying controversial things.  ;)
Nay-sayers, {brace yourselves} "here it comes"...

If the tire is not handling right, and has a flat spot with crowns on both sides, or if it's cupping,,,
    Raise the front of the bike and reshape the profile of the tire with a body grinder...
      ie; Grind the crown points, smooth the cups, and make the profile round again.

Let the flames begin..

Ride safe, Ted
Click to expand...
 
Well, the Shinko tires are gone! about 7,500 miles on the set. Replaced with Angel GT "A" spec, and boy, WHAT A DIFFERENCE! :great: My commute has one corner that the State has tried to fix, and this bike has never liked that corner. It does a shimmy all the time, until now! My last two sets of tires BOTH caused a shimmy, and the Angels DO NOT. So no matter how often I need to change them, it's Angels for the Connie!
 
After about 6k my shinko rear had to go, so on went the roadtec 01 HWM, then about another 1600m later, I have my new roadtec 01 front HWM version ready to go on with a set of pads.

I have to admit I liked the shinko, price/mi is not bad, but I have nothing to compare it to.  I'll see how the Metzlers go, then a set of PRT4's, then maybe a set of angels, then a set of Dunlops, and finally just settle on which I like the best and go with them.

This test may not entirely be apples to apples since I'm running an HWM Metzler and the shinko doesn't have a heavier version, but then maybe it is since I bought the heaviest weight version in both I could. 

Being a 300lb rider with a straight commute, I burn out the center pretty fast. 
 
GIant81 said:
After about 6k my shinko rear had to go, so on went the roadtec 01 HWM, then about another 1600m later, I have my new roadtec 01 front HWM version ready to go on with a set of pads.

I have to admit I liked the shinko, price/mi is not bad, but I have nothing to compare it to.  I'll see how the Metzlers go, then a set of PRT4's, then maybe a set of angels, then a set of Dunlops, and finally just settle on which I like the best and go with them.

This test may not entirely be apples to apples since I'm running an HWM Metzler and the shinko doesn't have a heavier version, but then maybe it is since I bought the heaviest weight version in both I could. 

Being a 300lb rider with a straight commute, I burn out the center pretty fast.
Click to expand...

I have enjoyed commuting on rural roads since 2012. The benefits of 30 miles each way cannot be underestimated in reduction of medications that would otherwise be required. The other benefit is in the short term testing of FARKLES. If it's no good at least you are not committed for days on end of a long distance trip!

But motorcycle commuting and tire/suspension testing is probably the ultimate "feel" test. You know where each bump and turn is after so many repeats. It's almost like your personal / public track. (All perfectly legal of course).  :motonoises:
 
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