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Some general flash questions

Strawboss

Member
Member
I've asked around about flashes, I know from the amount of people who rave about them that they obviously are a difference but most cannot nail down exactly how to describe the difference other than "much better than stock" or "night and day" or "releases the beast Kawasaki won't let you have". So what is released, what is better, what change is dramatic?

-Quicker throttle response?
-less "herky jerky" on trailing throttle to increased throttle?
-dramatic roll-on performance?
-more HP?
-smoother roll on exiting curves?


I don't have enough miles on this thing to make a judgement and most riders butt dyno assessments are usually vastly different than mine, hearing about how I need to do this simply isn't enough for me to start dabbling in the changing around of the bikes systems. Am I on the right path as to the change involved? Please try not to post links to those who do this work as I won't go there, I've perused them and found some useful info but not enough to satisfy my questions regarding changing things on the bike. I like to hear from others not involved in selling the product.
 

2andblue

Member
Member
My wife immediately noticed the extra smoothness in shifting - tremendous difference. Since she’s not holding onto the handbars so the changes in motion effect her more easily.

I immediately noticed the crisper throttle response. Since I’m the one with wrist on the throttle I noticed how much better, even and accurate the throttle response is.

I felt some Improvement in top end RPM but less than I had expected. After switch to FullAreaP and associated flash then I was happy in this area.

Temperature reduction for ‘fan on’ I did opt for this and there is a noticeable difference on the gauge and duration the fan is on for is shorter. Stock in traffic I would routinely hit 4 bars and even occasionally 5 bars in extended traffic - now fan turns on at 3 bars and never has returned to 4. Stock and after flash always when riding on a normal 70-100*F day and moving along the bars are at 2 or if slow going 3. So I think the more consistent temp was a good call? Of course unless KAWA has the riding temp too cold…

I did notice at first a little different exhaust smell, leaner mixture? Less during of the CAT?

This are my thoughts - but certain if it’s anything you haven’t already read.

Wayne, Carol & Blue
 

IKnowYouRider

Member
Member
- lower Idle Speed
- lower temp
- eliminated the binary on/off throttle response. this was a very noticeable difference for me. Always read about fuel cut for emissions but never thought it would make a big difference. always thought the bike ran fine as is until I decided to try a flash
- smoothness, honestly I don't even understand how a flash can eliminate vibrations but it did. also smoothness throughout the rpm range. very noticeable difference.

If you are on the fence like I was, I would recommend going for it as it was a surprising difference for me. My bike is completely stock outside of the flash and risers. I just sent mine out on Monday as an update was available and received it today. Still haven't ridden it yet. But that is another cool thing about a flash, you can get it updated if updates are available or swap out exhaust you just need to pay for shipping to update the ecu.
 

Pmack

Member
Member
-Quicker throttle response?
-less "herky jerky" on trailing throttle to increased throttle?
-dramatic roll-on performance?
-more HP?
-smoother roll on exiting curves?
Yes to all except dramatic roll on performance. It is improved, but I wouldn't say dramatic.
Increased low to mid range punch is what I was going for and bought an appropriate exhaust for that.
Area P makes the most peak power. I went with a Black Widow for the low end torque bump.
Seat of the pants doesn't feel dramatically faster because it makes more power at lower revs now.
It doesn't have the same rush as when the stock tune "comes on the cam" so to speak.
It is definitely faster, and comes off the corners harder with less revs.
Talk to whoever is doing the flash, and tune for the way you ride the bike.
 

Pmack

Member
Member
The tune I chose responds to throttle inputs immediately, you can't ham fist it.
If you are the kind of rider that likes a throttle tamer, you may want to look into a tune with a softer bottom end.
I think SISF has just such a tune.
 

Strawboss

Member
Member
OK, great responses, that's what I was looking for and I'm seeing a pattern of people noticing a difference on the things I noticed before their flash. The one thing I noticed recently is the sudden herky jerky riding on an uneven surface and in traffic with varying speed changes, VERY difficult to be smooth.
-I liked the fan switch option temp
-fuel cutoff seems to be the hekry jerky
-I like the throttle tamer
-smoother shifting related to fuel cutoff or delivery?

Great, as I said, I'm still learning this thing. Thanks so much, I'm gathering as much info as I can, looks like I'll also be talking to a lot of folks at the rides I'll be going to this year.
 

IKnowYouRider

Member
Member
From everything I've read and know, for a concours, you have two main options. Ivans and SISF. I went with Ivan's since I knew his work from previous motorcycles I came from a Z900RS to this bike and Ivan does many motorcycle makes at his performance shop. I'm sure either work perfectly fine though and will be an improvement over the restricted stock tune.
 

Pmack

Member
Member
If I were tuning bikes for a living, I think would buy a few ECUs and allow potential customers a test run of options if need be.
I understand that would be costly, but you could make certain the correct tune was purchased by the customer.
I don't think the available tune from IPP changes too much regardless of what exhaust, filter, etc you run. SISF may be different, IDK.
I would have gone Shoodaben had I not had a N1k ECU I needed to update the flash on when I put the BW exhaust on the C14.
Excellent experience with IPP flash on my N1K is the only reason I went with this tuning option. I don't have history with SISF(yet), period.
He is much more involved on COG than IPP, and his tunes may dominate for this bike for good reason, IDK.
I really like my IPP tune though.
I had no idea of the "flash war" until after I had sent my ECU off. I am not trying to incite one.
 
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Strawboss

Member
Member
Interesting, did not know you could swap computer chips on bikes. Thats deep for me right now but enjoy learning this stuff.
 

gilbysan

Member
Member
To me one of the great benefits of the flash, in addition to all that was mentioned above was the improvement in "Parking Lot" performance. You know, when you are crawling through a lot trying to not get run over by a driver focused on sliding into or out of a slot, etc. The change in low speed response and removal of the jerky throttle was worth the cost of flashing all by itself.
 

Pmack

Member
Member
Ivan contacted me today to discuss my post above.
He was concerned that I may not be enjoying my tune.
When I stated --"I don't think the available tune from IPP changes too much regardless of what exhaust, filter, etc you run.", I was flat out wrong.
He made it clear that the tune I have was developed specifically for the Black Widow exhaust, and the tunes are different based on what mods are on each particular bike. I should have been clued into this as the last 4 digits were B3BW.
It isn't possible to swap ECUs due to the immobilizer.
I was ignorant, now I have more info.
The N1k ECU is different , you can swap it with another bikes.
 

KretonsLC

Member
Member
I think some people new to large inline 4s like the Connie think a ECU flash requires a more experienced rider to handle the additional power. But having had my Connie for about a year prior to getting it flashed, I'd argue a properly flashed bike is more user friendly for someone stepping up from a smaller, less powerful bike largely because of the smoother throttle and shifting at lower speeds the flash provides.

Also, even conservative riders can benefit from a flash with improved MPG. My flash gave me a lot more torque in the 2-4k RPM range, so probably 90% of my shifts are below 4k RPM, which really helps with mileage.
 
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2andblue

Member
Member
I think some people new to large inline 4s like the Connie think a ECU flash requires a more experienced rider to handle the additional power. But having had my Connie for about a year prior to getting it flashed, I'd argue a properly flashed bike is more user friendly for someone stepping up from a smaller, less powerful bike largely because of the smoother throttle and shifting at lower speeds the flash provides.

Also, even conservative riders can benefit from a flash with improved MPG. My flash gave me a lot more torque in the 2-4k RPM range, so probably 90% of my shifts are below 4k RPM, which really helps with mileage.
Could not agree more - KAWA missed the mark on the tuning, partially / probably because of big brother…
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
All good info. Good points. Well stated.
(Even the post by 2andblue is ok).

But, I don't see the main thing that impressed me the most.
That thing is Smooth usable TORQUE.
ie;
When you riding along, and
Decide to speed up a bit,,
or; If your riding double, and want to go,,,
or; if your riding and want to ease past a car,,,,
or; If your enjoying the twisties and want to pull thru a turn,,,
or; If your on a hill and discover your not in the ideal gear,,,,,
Your far less likely to need to downshift.
Just twist the throttle and the bike pulls.

Ride safe, Ted

PS: Please don't tell 2andblue that I sed something nice about him... <evil grin>

PS-2; Strawboss, I sent you a PM. {Part shipped/Did it arrive}?
 
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KiowaEagle

Geezer but not on a wheezer
Member
The smoothness was what I did it for and what I am most happy with. Pre-flash I had to really concentrate using the throttle while shifting to avoid the jerkiness and I'd think twice about shifting in a curve. With the flash that all went away, it's a much more enjoyable ride.
 

Bud

Member
Member
One day I will have to ride an un-flashed 14. Mine was flashed when I got it so I haven't experienced the flaws of the stock tuning.
 

IKnowYouRider

Member
Member
One day I will have to ride an un-flashed 14. Mine was flashed when I got it so I haven't experienced the flaws of the stock tuning.
trust me, you will realize right away there is a problem with the throttle control. its completely binary, just like all modern motorcycles now to comply with strict environmental regulations.
 

Strawboss

Member
Member
OK, thanks all to those who have given advice, I see patterns here, good ones. After 400 miles I too see patterns too when riding. If anything to get it to stop jerking when using the throttle that would do it for me, and I really try to be smooth.
 

FTB530

Member
Member
OK, thanks all to those who have given advice, I see patterns here, good ones. After 400 miles I too see patterns too when riding. If anything to get it to stop jerking when using the throttle that would do it for me, and I really try to be smooth.
The smootness of the shifting is the first thing i noticed post flash, worth every cent to have that smoothness, IMHO
 

connie_rider

Member
Member
This is a good discussion that is sharing a lot of information.
So, lets keep it going.
(All) Can we please keep this as a "general discussion" on the benefits of "a Flash".

Ride safe, Ted
 
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texas.devops

Eager Upshifter in SW Houston
Member
This is a good discussion that is sharing a lot of information.
So, lets keep it going.
(All) Can we please keep this as a "general discussion" on the benefits of "a Flash".

Ride safe, Ted

I concur Ted, this is a valuable discussion that shouldn't be shunted off to a corner somewhere. There are likely more than a handful of C14 riders who will benefit from seeing and hearing more about this and who will find the motivation to prioritize getting their ECU "fixed".

Pls don't delete anyone or push this conversation off the main feed into a sub-forum. Thx, AB
 
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