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TDC vs Lobes Up Valve Adjustment

B

Bill Self

Guest
Guest
I am retired mechanic shop owner who does my own wrenching on all my vehicles including my 2002 Concours.

HEADS UP:  In reviewing the COG Tech Pages for the C10 Valve Adjustment;  I would warn against the 2003 Update advice of using the Cam Lobes Up model for adjusting valves. Here's my reason (verify yourself):  Adjusting your valves the factory manual recommended TDC way may get different results than the Lobes Up valve adjustment.  I just figured this is true for my 2002 ZG1000. Maybe it is different for other models? 

For the record, my tunes ups have my Connie purring like a kitten; and producing full smooth power when I pass cars.  I use sea foam fuel cleaner at least twice per year to keep my carbs free of varnish. I would recommend the Tech overseeing COG's Valve Adjustment info. include my "Heads Up" in the official valve adjustment section.

I now believe the COG Tech "Update Oct 2003" may produce unintended lesser tuned Connies:  The specific text of that update says:  "Starting at cylinder number 1, I hit the starter until the intake cam lobe is anywhere above horizontal and thereby leaving the valves fully closed. Just a few quick taps or two on the starter button will usually do it. Check and adjust both #1 intake valves as necessary. Then, move on to the intakes on cylinder number 2. It's just that easy. Once the intakes are done, do the exhaust. Don't forget to change to the other feeler gauge."s

Yes that is easier, but it get different results as compared to the factory recommended TDC way on my 2002 Concours (for me).  Food for Discussion?  I Hope So!
 
Exactly. What was the difference? Many people here including very capable C10 owners have used the lobe up method forever and I am sure they have examined/thought of the difference and either found none or the difference was negligible to be concerned with..
 
When completed my last valve adjustment, I started on intake 4 and moved down to 1. I then moved from exhaust 1 and moved up to 4.

After each adjustment, I would spin the cam one full revolution and test again.

I used two feeler gauges at he same time to make sure the adjustments were even. (this takes 4 hands)

When we finished, we rechecked all of them again, just to make sure.

Am I missing something about the process?

DS
 
I can address this.

  Lobes straight up gets the measurement on the base circle of the cam. The true base circle. When doing the tdc measurement, it can actually produce maybe .001 more clearance than the base circle. That seems strange. I asked the company that grinds my cams about this, and the response is that this is common due to grinding of the lobes and when the grinder is making contact as it transitions from ramp to base circle.

  Good observation from the OP.

  Here's a video of my c10, adjusted on the base circle.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LZ4WbgiihI

Steve
 
Somebody asked what was the difference: Reply from the original poster.  I did the lobes up way recently after reading that 2003 update, and was suprise my intakes on # 4 were very tight (guessing 003" vs .006").  ... If I had done the factory recommended TDC way the first round, I am sure my adjustments would have been closer to norm.  I adjusted all valves the lobes up way, and had to adjust many valve clearances. I went back to the TDC way, and readusted most of the valves back to what (I believe) has historically made my connie pure like a kitten, plus have full smooth power when I want that.

Will all Connie camshafts be like that? I do not know. This is my experience on my 2002 Connie I had about 15 years. If you are doing your own valve adjustments, I certainly recommend you check out the differences in clearance between the TDC way, and the Lobes Up Way.    I will be registering this info. with my personal experience, and using the TDC way (taking off side cover and rotating crank 180 degrees counter clockwise to the TDC marks of each cylinder for each cylinder's valve adjustment) from now on!
 
I have tried it both ways.  For whatever reason, my 2003 engine "seems" to be a bit smoother using the TDC method.  Note that I have SISF's cam retiming mod (using the stock cam shafts).  I would believe what Steve says above, (I tend to believe anything Steve says about Connie engines) and I also believe, but cannot actually confirm, that the slight difference in positioning of the whole collective set of lobes in relation to the valves/valve springs gives a somewhat different total spring tension on the camshafts which my affect their relative positions within their bearing bores in the head. 

When setting my clearances, I also make every effort to get them all the same as opposed to just being "within limits".  Again, the closer they are to being the same, the smoother the engine seems to run.

I have been known to be full of crap on many occasions, this could be one of them.
 
Bill, the Concours Owners Group c-10 technical editor position is currently open and desperately needs filling. Perhaps you could consider filling that position, as I'm sure many c-10 owners would appreciate you sharing your years of knowledge with them.

Steve
 
I use the TDC method of adjusting valves but I feel there are are a couple of things to mention. If you get a 3/8" square drive clicker type of torque wrench and you use a notepaper and pencil, you can set the valves equally and consistently. 

For a gently ridden 80K mile bike with a working cooling system, my Connie's valves are staying pretty well adjusted.  I am reminded of  Studebaker V8's I used to own and a mechanical lifter Toyota Corolla my wife owned that just ran year after year not needing much in the way of valve adjustment.

Somewhere on this website I posted pictures showing the use of four #64 rubber bands, some black silicone permatex and a 14" bamboo skewer to hold the valve cover gasket to the valve cover while maneuvering the valve cover onto the engine. The final trick is to snip the rubber band  with scissors and hold the same rubber band with a long nose pliers so it does not shoot off who knows where.
 

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Wow! Thanks guys. With winter coming perfect timing!

Does that qualify as a pun?!

Great looking rubber band trick too!
 
    I'd like to add that IMO, either the TDC method or the "lobe up" method will work equally as well.

    i'm basing this on the fact that the idea is to get the valves solidly on their seats to insure cylinder pressure during the compression cycle and also , particuularly int he case of the exhaust valve, to provide cooling. that is the "mechanical reason"

  But then there's the "non mechanical " reason , well actually 2 that I can think of.

  1) The concept of the Concours Owners Group regarding maintenance is that you can learn how to maintain your own bike, even if you aren't a professional  mechanic.  While I agree that the TDC method is proper, it can create some difficulties in understanding with guys who are not mechanics. The lobe up method is pretty foolproof... you can trust your eyes.

  2) Turning the crank with a wrench has a HUGE pitfall for the uninitiated... that would be the potential shearing of the ignition plate locating pin.  This failure is easy to create but not easily identified when the bike runs poorly, or doesn't run at all after the ignition timing is blown. Again, this would be a huge problem for a non professional, and I dare say, a diagnostic nightmare even for a professional who doesn't know this failure can happen. And yeah... BTDT.  :-[ :-[

  Steve
 
Steve in Sunny Fla said:
  While I agree that the TDC method is proper, it can create some difficulties in understanding with guys who are not mechanics. The lobe up method is pretty foolproof... you can trust your eyes.

 
Click to expand...
This is the most relevant statement in the entire thread,with emphasis on "foolproof",With an exception for the large 400plus thumpers with a compression release on one valve.
 
from original poster: 

Since I am waiting for a new valve cover gasket to arrive today before buttoning up my Concours, and just finished (yesterday) my TDC way of adjusting all my valve clearances to as close to I could get to all .006" for intakes, and 008" for exhausts;  I decided to re measure my clearances the Lobes Up way.

Here's what I got 20 minutes ago: The difference in measurements were striking to me on my stock 2002 Concours: Cylinder #1: .004" intake  .006" exhaust;  / #2: .004" intake  .006" exhaust  / #3: .005" intake .006" exhaust /  #4: .0025" intakes  .008" exhaust    I am sure my Concours would still run readjusting my valves the Lobs Up Way, but I doubt it would be purring like a kitten.

Will every Concours have this striking difference?  I do not know.  This is on my stock 2002 Concours.  My local extremely experienced moto buddy running the Honda Moto Dealer shop says always use the TDC method, though mentioned a way to do an extra intake and exhaust on two other cylinders while rotating the crank only twice. I will stick to the 4 - 180 degree rotations/ do each cylinder on TDC with cam lobes facing away from each other on each cylinder's valve clearance check and adjustment.

My tune ups have resulted in my Concours purring like a kitten, plus having full smooth power on a moment's notice. I noticed Nosmo posted: " I have tried it both ways.  For whatever reason, my 2003 engine "seems" to be a bit smoother using the TDC method."

For the record: I aim at exactly .006" intake clearances / .008" exhausts instead of the range between this and that a dealer shop might use. That's me wanting to be exact. I like the lesser clearance vs larger clearance because I think that makes the valves open slightly earlier, close slightly later, giving valves a slightly longer open interval for a hairline more power when I run up my rpm.

Re: Steve in Fla's: "Turning the crank with a wrench has a HUGE pitfall for the uninitiated... that would be the potential shearing of the ignition plate locating pin."  My thoughts are if someone can do all that work to get the valve cover off, and then back on; it makes sense to me they could also handle taking off the side cover to rotate the crank 4 times without messing up the ignition plate locating pin. I would recommend: Just make sure to have the spark plugs removed when rotating the engine counter clockwise (there is a little arrow on same disc indicating that turn direction) to the T (TDC) mark next to "F" mark (ignition firing mark) . Cylinders 2 and 3 were marked "2.3"  on that same indicator disc on my Concours. Applying anti-seize lube to sparkplug threads is smart idea.

I made a record of this second set of Lobes Up Valve Clearance measurements for all us DIY Concours owners to consider. I personally think the TDC way is a no brainer. If you think the lobes up way it good enough, I recommend to at least check out the difference for yourself on your next personal valve adjustment; and report back here.

Happy Trails, and Keep the Rubber Side Down!
 
My 20+ years of experience with cats has shown that "purring like a kitten" is not what I want my engine doing.  :)
The purring is in fact smooth, but then the kitten cuts out a bit before smoothing out again. 
Maybe my cats need a valve adjustment. :-[




 
From Original Poster: Not attached/ but would be nice to see:

I Propose:  2019 Update to COG Tech / C10 Valve Adjustment Page:

2019 Update:  Re: TDC vs Lobes Up Valve Adjustment: While many C10 Concours owners have used the Cam Lobes Up method for valve adjustment maintenance to their satisfaction, there is a report by one member that the Top Dead Center way of adjusting valves gets difference valve clearances than the Lobes Up method on his 2002 Concours. The factory recommended TDC way of adjusting valves may produce better tuning results on at least some Connies.  Check out the discussion: http://forum.cog-online.org/concours-c10-zg1000-general-chat-and-tech/tdc-vs-lobes-up-valve-adjustment/ -vs-lobes-up-valve-adjustment/
 
Bill, you really ought to consider joining COG and maybe accepting the tech editor position. the position is currently open, and in need of a mechanically educated individual to fill. It's not often that a person with real mechanical knowledge comes along, and others can benfit from your experience. I am suggesting this with all sincerity and humility.

Steve
 
Yo Steve, I appreciate your compliment about my being a mechanically educated individual. I will consider your request at a later date, but will decline for now. I have some web topics of another nature coming up that I will eventually get my priority over COG. I think this is a notice to everyone reading this thread: COG Can really use some volunteer energy in the Tech Pages Dept.  ... What a great forum; and source of DIY and comparing notes support for Kawaski Concours owners. 
 
FWIW from a non-professional, for me it's hard to hit .006" or .009" on the nose to begin with.  I don't have the tool that holds the adjusting screw so I used a screwdriver and a box wrench.  Try as I could the adjusting screw always got 1/8 turn or more tighter when I tightened the locknut.  The screw is 7mm according to the parts book and the standard thread for 7mm is 1mm pitch.  1mm is almost .004" so .001" is about a quarter turn of the adjusting screw.  1/8 to 1/4 turn movement while I snug the lock nut is halfway to the next feeler size.
Then there's the play in the rocker /cam follower, that 2-headed snake that has the adjusting screws in it. Wiggling side to side doesn't cause much movement but the clearance seems to change when it's off center.
The surface the cam slides on isn't necessarily factory flat either.  If one valve had more clearance than the other for any length of time then one side might have worn down more than the other.  There's also the question of how much push it should take to insert the feeler gage between the cam and the follower.  I felt like I was pushing the clearance open a lot of times, but once it's bigger than the gage it slides in and out so easily the gap isn't really indicated by the gage size, it's just bigger.
In the end I used a lot of voodoo, which was re-doing it again until it felt kind of right.
It starts and runs better than before.  While I was almost selling it to BB he asked if doing the valves was difficult.  I didn't know what to say because it's not hard to do, but it might be hard to do right.
Regarding the lobes up vs TDC, I used TDC but re-gaging the clearances often got different results for all of the above reasons.
If you're doing a racing tune-up the you want perfect, I think for keeping a 33 year old bike running some liberties need to be taken.
I did re-adjust a couple of valves after rotating the engine to do other valves.  When I thought enough is enough I figured that Kawasaki would have come up with a better adjuster if they needed better adjustments.
 
To Tour1: All of your points are well taken. The key to any adjustment,
be it valves, carbs, tire pressure, etc. is being consistent, not
necessarily accurate. Getting them all the same ( while in range )
is more important than “on the nose”. Whatever technique is used
is fine as long as it’s repeated across all points of adjustment.
 
Works4me said it correctly . It is a feel thing though. To me if its so tight that im scratching the gauge then its too tight.  If its loose then how loose? So I go for a slight drag. As far as lobes up or TDC.  While  debatable im not sure theres much difference either way if the clearances are consistent.
  I remember years ago when i worked for my uncle who raced the old KZs .For racing he would set the intakes on the tight side of spec and the exhaust on the lose end  but for normal  maintenance he did like most say here and went to the loose side for longevity. 
 
Tour1 said:
I figured that Kawasaki would have come up with a better adjuster if they needed better adjustments.
Click to expand...
Funny how people think about things, In my experiences this is both the simplest and most efficient method for valve adjustment in existence. If you think playin around with removin cams and keepin track of shim sizes under buckets is better than more power to ya.My only advice would be to not approach it as a one try deal, just keep playin with it until you get them all the same even if it takes you all afternoon and you have to spin the motor a couple dozen times.The more you do it the more confident and quicker youll get.
 
Now, armed with this information, how many of you will change the way you do your valves? I'm not.

My old bike is not a precision race machine, she runs fine, sounds fine, crisp throttle responses, so I am happy with the lobe method.


 
i've always aimed for the middle of the valve lash spec, via the factory book method, on every bike i've done since i was 20. My old engines class instructor always used to say: its going to change as it runs, aim for the middle'. never has served me wrong, that advice. never had an issue. they are precision machines, but they are NOT hard to maintain.  and yes, shim and bucket does suck. want time consuming? do a desmo. still not THAT bad to do. Just a bit more time.  .02
 
DC Concours said:
Now, armed with this information, how many of you will change the way you do your valves? I'm not.

My old bike is not a precision race machine, she runs fine, sounds fine, crisp throttle responses, so I am happy with the lobe method.
Click to expand...

Yes...sometimes "good enough" is good enough, in my twisted opinion. 

My Wee-Strom is shim-under-bucket and being a V-twin, it's a pain in the arse.  Luckily, only need to check every 17,000 miles, and usually after the first re-shim (you'll need to have a shim kit on-hand) they usually don't require any other adjustment.  I can adjust the screws on Connie in about 1/5 the time, and no parts needed.
 
I had a 1st gen sv fro 11 years. that rear cyl sucked. you're right, only had to check it once as well.
 
With the Crankshaft at TDC on #4 cylinder and the Cam Lobes Up on #4 and the Marks On The Cam Sprockets Aligned I adjust #4 Intake and Exhaust and Intake on 2 and Exhaust on 3. Using the "Crankshaft Rotating Nut" I rotate to number 1 Cylinder TDC and align the cam sprocket marks and adjust the remaining valves. Valves are set with .001" more clearance than factory. For those who do not have a feel for adjusting valves use .005" and .007" feeler gauges to check a .006" setting. Always rotate, align the cam marks and double check clearances.

Important things to watch out for are the sleeves for the exhaust gas recirculating ports in the valve cover. If a sleeve comes loose it could fall into an abyss. Before removing sparkplugs carefully inspect for any debris around the plugs, etc. If something falls through a sparkplug hole during a well meaning valve adjustment you can kiss Connie Goodbye.
 
Tour1 said:
FWIW from a non-professional, for me it's hard to hit .006" or .009" on the nose to begin with. I don't have the tool that holds the adjusting screw so I used a screwdriver and a box wrench. Try as I could the adjusting screw always got 1/8 turn or more tighter when I tightened the locknut. The screw is 7mm according to the parts book and the standard thread for 7mm is 1mm pitch. 1mm is almost .004" so .001" is about a quarter turn of the adjusting screw. 1/8 to 1/4 turn movement while I snug the lock nut is halfway to the next feeler size.
Then there's the play in the rocker /cam follower, that 2-headed snake that has the adjusting screws in it. Wiggling side to side doesn't cause much movement but the clearance seems to change when it's off center.
The surface the cam slides on isn't necessarily factory flat either. If one valve had more clearance than the other for any length of time then one side might have worn down more than the other. There's also the question of how much push it should take to insert the feeler gage between the cam and the follower. I felt like I was pushing the clearance open a lot of times, but once it's bigger than the gage it slides in and out so easily the gap isn't really indicated by the gage size, it's just bigger.
In the end I used a lot of voodoo, which was re-doing it again until it felt kind of right.
It starts and runs better than before. While I was almost selling it to BB he asked if doing the valves was difficult. I didn't know what to say because it's not hard to do, but it might be hard to do right.
Regarding the lobes up vs TDC, I used TDC but re-gaging the clearances often got different results for all of the above reasons.
If you're doing a racing tune-up the you want perfect, I think for keeping a 33 year old bike running some liberties need to be taken.
I did re-adjust a couple of valves after rotating the engine to do other valves. When I thought enough is enough I figured that Kawasaki would have come up with a better adjuster if they needed better adjustments.
Click to expand...

My sentiments exactly on the "adjuster". Hydraulic adjusters have been used for years which require zero maintenance, but, then again I am no "Expert" mechanic. So maybe there are reasons for manually adjusted ones. My Goldwing has automatic ones so, I never have to touch em, which is nice. I was gifted a 88 C10 that just needs a lot of TLC..so it's going down to frame, engine out and refinish, rebuild EVERYTHING except the engine. She runs already. I visited here to get a idea of the process and likely will be re-visiting when the engine 'is out. It's much easier to deal with and then put it baack in. Engine out is due to all the flaking paint and white aluminum corrosion. When Connie's engine goes back in, it will look like it came off the assy line.
 
anon.imous191919658 said:
My sentiments exactly on the "adjuster". Hydraulic adjusters have been used for years which require zero maintenance, but, then again I am no "Expert" mechanic. So maybe there are reasons for manually adjusted ones. My Goldwing has automatic ones so, I never have to touch em, which is nice. I was gifted a 88 C10 that just needs a lot of TLC..so it's going down to frame, engine out and refinish, rebuild EVERYTHING except the engine. She runs already. I visited here to get a idea of the process and likely will be re-visiting when the engine 'is out. It's much easier to deal with and then put it baack in. Engine out is due to all the flaking paint and white aluminum corrosion. When Connie's engine goes back in, it will look like it came off the assy line.
Click to expand...
Greeting @anon.imous191919658, you have quite the project in front of you - sounds like fun, and enjoy hearing your enthusiasm to dig in.

Last winter I had a C-10 come to me from a customer who had disassembled the entire machine (for not unlike the purpose you are stating) then didn’t have time to get it back together. Life happened and soon a decade had gone by, owner moved from one residence to another, parts got scrambled, forks damaged and many nuts and bolts ended up mixed into a few large storage bags... Owner then decided it was time to return to the world of sport touring however the task was larger than expected and I was asked if I would take the job. Seeing the machine show up on a trailer and in the back of a truck in a pile of parts was interesting and the project was a joy seeing the motorcycle come back to life. Machine looked and ran great, forks rebuilt, leaking rear-end fixed, carbs cleaned, oil changed, battery swapped to Lithium-Ion, lights changed to LED, brakes changed, all hydraulic fluids vacuum replaced, etc., etc., etc.. You will find a few 'etc.' as well.

Get yourself a Factory Service Manual (FSM), take your time, (maybe not as long as owner above :)) note all the parts, bolts etc. for easier reassembly. Due to the pile of bolts I had there was the need to 'map' the bolts by going through the schematics of each assembly, measuring, - laborious - try to avoid this.

@anon.imous191919658 First thing you should do though - Become a Full Member of the COG and gain access to technical sections of the COG database which will be helpful over time for the new to you C-10 and C-14 if you decide to upgrade down the road. Also there's a great group of folks to get to know, discounted rates as a member for events and gatherings.

Then regarding hydraulic vs mechanical lifters - mechanical lifters are generally used in higher revving engines - this is mostly about performance and reliability. Hydraulic lifters (especially of the C-10 era) are not great for RPM over 8K. Here's a couple layman thoughts:
  1. Hydraulic lifters:
    • Use engine oil compressed within the lifter to control clearance between the valve stem, lifter and cam lobe. Due to the lifter design and dynamics of compressing oil these type lifters have a safety factor built-in which results in less than optimum valve open and closing. IOW, the valves are closing sooner or opening later; understand we are talking about very small amounts but thousands of times over it adds up where performance and efficiency suffers at the expense of convenience.
    • At higher RPMs hydraulic lifters have risk of floating the valves (valves staying open because tolerance has been lost - the oil could not be squeezed within and out of the lifter quick enough). Your Goldwing engine will never turn the RPMs like the new to you C-10 is capable of and similarly the C-14, thus hydraulic lifters are used in your Goldwing and require no routine maintenance
    • There is no routine maintenance needed.
  2. Mechanical Lifters
    • Adjustable or Non-Adjustable Lifters are temporarily (permanent in-between maintenance schedules) set to a prescribed clearance between the valve stem, lifter and cam lobe consistently at low or high RPMs and do not suffer from the fluid dynamics.
    • C-10 as you know uses a locking/threaded adjustment to set the clearance on the valve train mechanism.
    • C-14 uses a shim under-bucket to precisely set the clearance between the valve stem, lifter and cam lobe. Although it is much more work, I prefer the shim under-bucket design over the adjustable mechanics of the C-10 for precisely what you have described above.
Hope this helps a little bit. Join the club as a member, supplement information here with a FSM and enjoy your time on a Concours.

Wayne
 
2andblue said:
Greeting @anon.imous191919658, you have quite the project in front of you - sounds like fun, and enjoy hearing your enthusiasm to dig in.

Last winter I had a C-10 come to me from a customer who had disassembled the entire machine (for not unlike the purpose you are stating) then didn’t have time to get it back together. Life happened and soon a decade had gone by, owner moved from one residence to another, parts got scrambled, forks damaged and many nuts and bolts ended up mixed into a few large storage bags... Owner then decided it was time to return to the world of sport touring however the task was larger than expected and I was asked if I would take the job. Seeing the machine show up on a trailer and in the back of a truck in a pile of parts was interesting and the project was a joy seeing the motorcycle come back to life. Machine looked and ran great, forks rebuilt, leaking rear-end fixed, carbs cleaned, oil changed, battery swapped to Lithium-Ion, lights changed to LED, brakes changed, all hydraulic fluids vacuum replaced, etc., etc., etc.. You will find a few 'etc.' as well.

Get yourself a Factory Service Manual (FSM), take your time, (maybe not as long as owner above :)) note all the parts, bolts etc. for easier reassembly. Due to the pile of bolts I had there was the need to 'map' the bolts by going through the schematics of each assembly, measuring, - laborious - try to avoid this.

@anon.imous191919658 First thing you should do though - Become a Full Member of the COG and gain access to technical sections of the COG database which will be helpful over time for the new to you C-10 and C-14 if you decide to upgrade down the road. Also there's a great group of folks to get to know, discounted rates as a member for events and gatherings.

Then regarding hydraulic vs mechanical lifters - mechanical lifters are generally used in higher revving engines - this is mostly about performance and reliability. Hydraulic lifters (especially of the C-10 era) are not great for RPM over 8K. Here's a couple layman thoughts:
  1. Hydraulic lifters:
    • Use engine oil compressed within the lifter to control clearance between the valve stem, lifter and cam lobe. Due to the lifter design and dynamics of compressing oil these type lifters have a safety factor built-in which results in less than optimum valve open and closing. IOW, the valves are closing sooner or opening later; understand we are talking about very small amounts but thousands of times over it adds up where performance and efficiency suffers at the expense of convenience.
    • At higher RPMs hydraulic lifters have risk of floating the valves (valves staying open because tolerance has been lost - the oil could not be squeezed within and out of the lifter quick enough). Your Goldwing engine will never turn the RPMs like the new to you C-10 is capable of and similarly the C-14, thus hydraulic lifters are used in your Goldwing and require no routine maintenance
    • There is no routine maintenance needed.
  2. Mechanical Lifters
    • Adjustable or Non-Adjustable Lifters are temporarily (permanent in-between maintenance schedules) set to a prescribed clearance between the valve stem, lifter and cam lobe consistently at low or high RPMs and do not suffer from the fluid dynamics.
    • C-10 as you know uses a locking/threaded adjustment to set the clearance on the valve train mechanism.
    • C-14 uses a shim under-bucket to precisely set the clearance between the valve stem, lifter and cam lobe. Although it is much more work, I prefer the shim under-bucket design over the adjustable mechanics of the C-10 for precisely what you have described above.
Hope this helps a little bit. Join the club as a member, supplement information here with a FSM and enjoy your time on a Concours.

Wayne
Click to expand...
Ironically after I posted and was heading down to the shop, I thought of that exact thing about high rev engines and sort of answered my own disillusionment. I knew it but at the time (us ol foggies tend to forget stuff at times) I simply wasn't dialed in on that thought. Bought s set of go-no go gauges and that'll likely help. Ordering up the parts as I think of things, got the brake, fork rebuild kits and a M/C kit. Getting everything lined up and I'm nearing completion of the project I'm currently knee deep into. Was cruising the FB Market when I came across an Ol 88 C10 for 500 bucks. Talking to the guy (looking for a new project) he basically said if I come and get it I can have it. Well just had to make that 2 hour drive with my trailer in tow. First thing I did was pull the plugs, cleaned em, shot some fogging oil into it. Putting the coils back on still had one off and thought lets see if she spins up. Dang thing fired off on 2 cylinders with the fogging oil as fuel. I was happy slappy happy. My shop Partner said he is interested to help me with it, so within the next 2 weeks it's gonna get broke down. Already got storage bins boxes for the parts, I label EVERYTHING, and then break it all the way down. Considering the bike was free, I got about 800 in parts for it with a few remaining items perhaps, but, it is going to be a labor of Love and with only 35K miles, I'm sure its gonna be fun this summer.
Edit note: Got a shop manual already, and good advice. I never not get one. It can be a lifesaver, literally...(torque specs and the like).
🍻
 
Check for indications of hydrolock damage before tearing too deep into the machine, probably do that before anything else actually.

After you sign up search the site hydrolock test, it’s a basic measurement practice looking for a bent rod - unfortunately not an altogether uncommon event for the C-10.

Wayne
 
2andblue said:
Check for indications of hydrolock damage before tearing too deep into the machine, probably do that before anything else actually.

After you sign up search the site hydrolock test, it’s a basic measurement practice looking for a bent rod - unfortunately not an altogether uncommon event for the C-10.

Wayne
Click to expand...
How could it possibly be hydro locked when it fired right off?
 
anon.imous191919658 said:
How could it possibly be hydro locked when it fired right off?
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Not hydro-locked now, I am referring to a previous hydro-lock event having caused damage. An engine can run with a bent rod.

Chances are you are just fine but it’s a good check to do before going through all this work then finding out there is a major problem.

Also while there check the cyclinder compression. Yes better done warm but a cold check can at the least show consistency between cylinders.

Wayne
 
2andblue said:
Not hydro-locked now, I am referring to a previous hydro-lock event having caused damage. An engine can run with a bent rod.

Chances are you are just fine but it’s a good check to do before going through all this work then finding out there is a major problem.

Also while there check the cyclinder compression. Yes better done warm but a cold check can at the least show consistency between cylinders.

Wayne
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Gotcha, read up on it and its a simple test and easy to do.
 
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