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The C14 shock on a C10

rwjc

rwjc

Scooter
I was asking around, and suggested to make this public to garner more feedback.

As such: how?, does?, will? the 1" higher rear end affect steering and handling response??? Now, I am about 300lbs, so it won't stay an inch long. LOL

Any good advice or experience appreciated! Thanks in advance.
 
Well my limited understanding is that changing the relationship between the front and rear ride height will have an effect on steering response.

You can measure sag for the rear suspension just the same as you can for the front suspension. I tried it with the stock shock and the ZZR shock and even with max air pressure in the stock unit, or the ZZR I was not able to get to the 30mm recommended for street use. Stock shock at 30psi was 24mm with just the bike and the bike + me was 46mm. At 50psi I had 14mm with just the bike and 38mm bike + me. -- So the ride height in the rear is slightly low anyways.

Anyways what you might want to play around with is.... put the bike on the center stand and measure the length from the axle to a point in the antler ( or something like that ) straight above that. Get the bike off the center stand and sit on it and get some one to measure your static sag.  :p    with the stock shock. 

Then with the C14 shock I would not worry so much about the extended length being 1" longer and dial in the rear preload to 30mm of static sag based on the stock measurement.  More than likely the stock shock is riding low for your weight even at 50psi. And the 1 inch longer C14 shock will get you real close to the 30mm sag.  -- If you then find that your right height is too high based on the stock measurements you can worry about lowering link later.

 
because of my weight...I cause a lot of SAG!
Seriously
Added
Gravity!

Even my local tech noticed it when I sat on the bike right after airing up the shock!

C14 will be in. I will get measurement with out me, with me, with me and luggage(normal riding).

We can then compare that to "normal" ride height and see where we are??
 
Well hopefully others will speak up if I had too much coffee this morning. Here is how I was thinking of this.

1. I put my connie on the centerstand and removed one saddle bag. I measured 14.75 inches between the center of the rear axle bolt and the bottom edge of the antler straight above it. Note the antler run at an angle like this so mark the point you measure, even which side of the tape measure you looked at.  So we have consistency. -- You want to do this with the STOCK SHOCK.

2. Reverse engineering my measurements. 30mm is 1.18 inches, 38mm is 1.49 inches and 46mm is 1.81 inches.

3. Remove bike from the centerstand and sit on it. Ideal if someone can hold you up so you can put feet on the pegs and then have someone measure that exact same distance from the center of the axle bolt to the same spot on the antler. Bounce up and down a few times to let it resettle. Do the measurement several time. Will probably be slightly different each time. Average your readings.

4. Reverse engineering my measurements. Ideally I would have measured 14.75 - 1.18 = 13.57 inches for my average. However what I really got at 30psi was 14.75 - 1.81 = 12.95 inches ( 14.75 - 12.95 = 1.81 inches which converts to 46mm ). AT 50 psi I measured 14.75 - 1.49 = 13.26 inches average.

5. In the ideal world according to them books and stuff 30mm of sag for the rear in street use. So I would have liked to measure 13.57 inches average for the STOCK SHOCK. This would be the idea ride height for the rear of the Connie.

6. When you install the C14 shock, lets assume the 1 inche longer shock directly translates into 15.75 inches difference between  the axle and the antler. It will probably not be the case, but for the sake of discussion measure this and see what it is. However I am thinking of this as not important

7. I am thinking that regardless of that measurement, you adjust the preload of the C14 shock so that you get 13.57 inches for your average. As this is the ideal ride height for the Stock Connie.

8. Note you do not have to be exactly right on the money. Close is plenty good enough. -- There was another thread around here recently about doing this on the front. And the concept is the same. Too much sag is eating up you suspension travel for soaking up bumps. Yet you do not want no sag at all ( which you will not have ). But dont waste all day trying to get it perfect. Not that critical.

9. In any case, my idea here is to see of you can dial in the ideal ride height for the stock connie. If your measurements show you are too high, then you also know by exactly how much. Lets say your measurements show 14.25 inches, due to the longer shock and lets say the spring rate is much better too. You know you are 14.25 - 13.57 = .68 inches too high. 

10. Is that .68 inches bad? Probably not. How does it effect road comfort in suspension settings. Should not effect it at all as its not changing the spring rate or dampening rates.  -- But is is making the ride height in the rear taller in relationship to the front and this should have a slight impact on steering response. -- I THINK this will make it quicker. Needs to be confirmed.

11. So as long as you can still reach the ground easily enough for your inseam size, and the steering is not all goofed up you might choose to live with it. If you choose to lower it some you can better select the appropriate lowering link to get the proper ride height.
 
I have been riding with this mod for over two years. You can't adjust the preload on the c-14 shock to get you down to the stock ride height. You will have to buy a lowering link. I see that you are 300lbs or so. That will make a difference as far as ride height goes. I only weigh 190. It was way too much weight on my wrists with out a lowering link. The bike looked cool and handled great but I could only take it for about an hour. Other problem with out the lowering link was a small breeze would blow it over on the side stand. I have ridden the C-14 shock, the zzr shock and the Progressive shock. IMHO the c-14 used, for the money is the best. The progressive is pricey but I found it to be almost as nice as the c-14. The zzr is better than stock but too stiff for my daily commute. EgoDriver is running the C-14 shock with out a lowering link he might be able to offer another perspective....
 
Theoretically, at least, raising the rear should quicken the steering, at the cost of some stability, as this would reduce the steering head angle... and you are also putting a slight more weight towards the front... whether an inch would make any detectable difference in respect to handling... I doubt you'd be able to tell the difference, but I don't know, just my opinion.
 
As Willy states, in general raising the rear will make the steering quicker, even more so than raising the forks in the front, and at 1" you should notice a difference.  As Slybones implies, whether it is enough to be a concern to you or cause any problems depends on your own comfort zone and how your bike is set up in other areas.  I will say that I know of a person who installed ZX9 forks on their bike along with a C14 shock with no lowering link plus he installed a rear tire that was taller than stock.  This had the same net effect on the front end geometry as raising the rear about 3" with the stock forks, and he was very happy with the handling.  I only mention that to say that it is possible to make a pretty significant change to the steering geometry on the C10 and still not have handling problems, assuming you didn't have problems to begin with.  The stock trail on the C10 is fairly long compared to sport bikes, so it tends to be pretty stable to begin with.

HTH,
 
"Other problem with out the lowering link was a small breeze would blow it over on the side stand."
Side note: most who install lowering links shorten the side stand.
 
THANKS!!  Really helpful info. Very appreciated. At work I put my bike on centerstand because of passerby's, and because of wind. I also cover it. right now..the bike is almost straight up, so a lean would be nice! Once I get it mounted, I'll post some pics, and get some expert advise if it leans too far/not enough, or safe. Thanks again. Shock should be in tomorrow, bushing on Thursday.
 
oldsawfiler said:
"Other problem with out the lowering link was a small breeze would blow it over on the side stand."
Side note: most who install lowering links shorten the side stand.
Click to expand...

Really? Really? Read my post before you decide to highlight it in red! Got a lot of folks riding on C-14 shocks with lowering links shortening the side stand? (The lowering link is to get the C-10 back to stock riding height)

Think before you criticize.....
 
Thanks for the apology Mr sawfiler..It is appreciated...Sorry I got so uptight...In the past, when I have tried to offer some help with a mod that I have been riding for years I have been shot down by others..It's one of the reasons I don't post very much...
 
  Just for Clarification - Everything Diablo posted is correct. We did the install together, and I have the same setup on shoodaben. The c-14 shock IS over an inch taller, maybe closer to 1.5", and without the lowering link it does put more weight on your hands and gets the bike too upright when on the centerstand. I think the steering is quicker with the rear up like that, but it's just not practical in other areas, as he mentioned. Even with all the preload off, the shock itself is just that much longer than stock, so without a lowering link you're dealing with some "issues".

  I also rode Tom Epps bike, which I think is the one GF was referring to. It had a zx9 front end and a c-14 shock with no link.  it handled very quickly in the mountains, very easy to turn, but a pile of weight on your hands. Good for fun, no good to live with.

  Ian - relax. It's just the interweb.  :beerchug: Steve
 
RWJC said:
best place for a lowering link??

Thx Steve!
Click to expand...



Ha - you're funny - there's a FEWaround that norm soucy made. you'll have to find them used. bTW, mine has a 1.125" drop, and worked out great with my shock to give me stock + a little ride height. Steve

 
where should I look???  I was not trying to be funny... :eek:

So then this is a rare custom piece?
 
This was posted in Nov of 2011

"  here is the Addy for : {deleted. Please use PM to provide this info}
HTH....

 
You may want to send that info in a PM rather than posting it in the open forum, diablo6v.  We shouldn't be posting other people's email here.
 
RWJC - you'll see my bike and diablo's bike at the tech session on the 10th. that'll be a good oportunity to see / learn what you need to - steve
 
That's Norms link right there in the ebay listing. the yellow bike is his. The price has gone up because he's cutting them and has a neighbor handling the ebay sales, and he's slapping a little (alot) on for himself. Still, if you're needing the bike lower, it's the only game in town - Steve
 
diablo6v said:
Thanks for the apology Mr sawfiler..It is appreciated...Sorry I got so uptight...In the past, when I have tried to offer some help with a mod that I have been riding for years I have been shot down by others..It's one of the reasons I don't post very much...
Click to expand...

First time I've read this post. My advice (its free and worth the price!  ;)) If you have something to say that is worthwhile then say it. Puck the dictractors. If you are wrong admitt it, but if you are right and it is worth saying then say it. We need all the help we can get from those with experience in these different areas.  Lord knows I say a lot of stupid stuff and I get shot down, but I still contribute where ever I can. So thicker skin there diablo6v!  ;) 
 
diablo6v said:
EgoDriver is running the C-14 shock with out a lowering link he might be able to offer another perspective....
Click to expand...

I also have the shorter `86 clip ons and a 17" front wheel.

If I didn't have the AudioVox, the weight on the wrists would be a bit much after awhile.  But for around town, it's a BLAST!!!

With you coming in at your weight, you'll probably compress it to close to stock height for the typical Japanese rider the original suspension was designed for.

Biggest question is what inseam do you have.  My 32" inseam makes it to where I am on the balls of my feet solo with both feet down.  I can easily flat foot one.  And if I'm 2up, I can flat foot both.

If you can handle the extra height, DO IT!!!  You won't regret the conversion to the C14 shock.
 
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