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This was unsettling to see at the gas station .....

P

Proliant

Training Wheels
I was out for a ride and stopped for gas ..... I'm glad I ran into the store for a Gatorade because on my way out something looked wrong. It almost seems like part ripped off and not that it was worn off. I ride pretty gentle usually between 40-60mph on back roads and I really don't take corners hard. I'm just glad that I was able to gingerly get it home, I don't think I was faster than 25. For me riding is all about relaxation. How the heck did this happen without me even knowing about it or noticing? The person I bought the bike from said the tires had about 3k on them and they certainly looked good (That was in August - the front still looks fine). Are Avon AV66 tires known for this? If so than I certainly don't want them back.

I know there are other options for tires ..... will I have an issue with different brands front and back or should I replace the whole kit and kaboodle regarding tires?
 

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you can mix tires, you will a bazillion answers to this I am sure but run the tire you like. I sugges a Dunlop E4 in goldwing size, very good in all conditions and will last about 12000 or more miles. I ran one and it was fine but I switched to a car tire and love it, has 30366 miles on it and still lots of tread left. Works grest in rain too, ran over a large bolt about 15000 miles ago and took it off patched it on the inside and been riding it since.

Do what makes sense to you and what your comfortable with.
 
Switched to a car tire? I think I have heard of people with Valkyries doing that ...... and heard nothing but good depending on riding style. Do you have to do the "mean streak" wheel swap for that? Sizes, brands, work required? It certainly caught my interest.
 
You don't have to change wheels to run a car tire.  I believe that a bit of grinding on the swing arm may be required.  Going to the dark side (running a car tire) is controversial to say the least, but it does have a following.  IIRC Federal and Nexen have the desired sizes.
 
Dan the Moto man would be the one to ask about the car tire. Dan runs a car tire on his C-10 and his V-Rod, I was skeptical about handling but I will admit I struggle to keep up with Dan on a C-14 through the the twisties  :motonoises:
 
I am using the oem wheel and an Austone Taxi tire, 175/75R16 I did need to do some minor clearanceing on the front of the swing arm but can tell you it was a ver good swap.
 
Proliant said:
I was out for a ride and stopped for gas ..... I'm glad I ran into the store for a Gatorade because on my way out something looked wrong. It almost seems like part ripped off and not that it was worn off. I ride pretty gentle usually between 40-60mph on back roads and I really don't take corners hard. I'm just glad that I was able to gingerly get it home, I don't think I was faster than 25. For me riding is all about relaxation. How the heck did this happen without me even knowing about it or noticing? The person I bought the bike from said the tires had about 3k on them and they certainly looked good (That was in August - the front still looks fine). Are Avon AV66 tires known for this? If so than I certainly don't want them back.

I know there are other options for tires ..... will I have an issue with different brands front and back or should I replace the whole kit and kaboodle regarding tires?
Click to expand...

How many miles have you put on them?  I put a total of 7K of reasonably agressive riding on my Avon Storm 3DXM (AV65 front, AV66 rear), then tossed them.  But my rear tire didn't look like this.  Mine was squared off somewhat, but still had tread on it.  For context, I put more details here:

http://forum.cog-online.org/tiressuspension-c10/my-avon-storm-3dxm-experience/

I personally don't like to mix tires, but won't argue with anyone who does.  ;D

I ran wing size tires and got better mileage out of them:
- Almost 20K out of Michelin Pilot GT's (that they don't make any more)
- About 15k on Dunlop E3's.

Was considering Dunlop E4's, but they were expensive as I recall, and I was looking for stock sizes and couldn't find a 110/80-18 front, only 110/90-18, and I was worried about clearance.  Decided to go with Avon Roadrider (AM26) in stock sizes as they are reported by some COGnoscenti as having performance as good as the Storm 3DXM's.  Hoping for 10k out these.  If I get that, I'll stick with these.  I just don't want to be changing tires twice a year.
 
Looks like abnormal wear... The right side appears to have tread left and the left is worn to the cords??
I would mount another rear tire and pay particular interest on how it wears..

I get about 5000 miles on the rear if I use radials, but NOTE that I ride a bit harder than you do.
If I recall, I got 8000-9000 if I have belted on the bike.
But, I didn't like the handling as much as when the bike has radials.

{On the C-10's} Some of the guys in the club (including me) are running radials on the front and belted on the rear.
Improves the overall mileage and handles more like having a pair of radials.

Ride safe, Ted
 
What Ted said. You need to figure out what is loose, tight, bent, or something. I put 65,000 miles on a C10 and never wore a tire out like that.
 
The left side of the tire will (almost) always wear more than the right due to the crown of the roads. One thing that wasn't posted was the AGE of the tire and when was the last time the OP checked his tire pressure (should be done before departing home).  Low pressures will result in more tire "squirm" and quicker wear.
 
Before I put anything new on it I am trying to see what (if anything) could be rubbing etc ..... I check the pressure every week or so and it still seems to have correct pressure even now. Really, it looks more like something ripped part of it off, not normal wear at all. Unfortunately, it'll have to wait until I get home to have a better look with the bags etc .... pulled off. Damnedest thing I've seen. I had a ride 2 weeks ago with my lady on the back (probably 140 pounds plus my 280) ..... perhaps it was more than the Progressive 465 could handle and it rubbed on something? I dont want to spend money on a tire just to replace it again because I didn't do my due diligence.
 
There should be no issue with the Progressive 465.  I have one.  I've ridden at 250 with full saddlebags, a full 52L Givi trunk, and a passenger with no problems at all.
 
Proliant said:
I was out for a ride and stopped for gas ..... I'm glad I ran into the store for a Gatorade because on my way out something looked wrong. It almost seems like part ripped off and not that it was worn off. I ride pretty gentle usually between 40-60mph on back roads and I really don't take corners hard. I'm just glad that I was able to gingerly get it home, I don't think I was faster than 25. For me riding is all about relaxation. How the heck did this happen without me even knowing about it or noticing? The person I bought the bike from said the tires had about 3k on them and they certainly looked good (That was in August - the front still looks fine). Are Avon AV66 tires known for this? If so than I certainly don't want them back.

I know there are other options for tires ..... will I have an issue with different brands front and back or should I replace the whole kit and kaboodle regarding tires?
Click to expand...

I've seen this happen before... there is a part missing....

when you pull that tire off, and the axle is pulled out, the washer under the axle bolt head should be there... with the tire removed, probe into the recess of the splined coupling on the rear drive, there should be a spacer tube there, it usually sits there held by the seal, when the axle is pulled out.. some people have dropped this before, or mis laid it, and when the assembly is put back together without that tube, it cocks the rear tire slightly first time you accelerate, and will result in this wear pattern, as the tire isn't being held 'in tension' thru the combination of bearings and such..

I also highly suggest cleaning the splined drive, and mating part in the wheel damper really well with some solvent, and examining both... usually the drive side will be ok, but the wheel side is subject to extreme wear on the splines, especially if that spacer was missing... you may even need to replace it..
before the teeth are non existant.

p/n is

92027-1553 COLLAR,20.2X28X89

the picture from the fiche shows it with the axle, and washer, but the spacer is actually installed inside the drive housing when pushing the axle in...
 

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Dang, is there anyway to check to see if it's missing short of pulling the wheel back off? I just swapped in a Mean Streak 17" wheel and I had just assumed it was ready to install. The only thing I looked at was the bearings to make sure they were well greased. I might have to pull my wheel back apart and check it just for peace of mind.
 
@MOB ..... crap, more stuff to look at ..... its never ending. I guess I should just resign myself to more wrenching than riding.
 
Proliant said:
@MOB ..... crap, more stuff to look at ..... its never ending. I guess I should just resign myself to more wrenching than riding.
Click to expand...

batboy said:
Dang, is there anyway to check to see if it's missing short of pulling the wheel back off? I just swapped in a Mean Streak 17" wheel and I had just assumed it was ready to install. The only thing I looked at was the bearings to make sure they were well greased. I might have to pull my wheel back apart and check it just for peace of mind.
Click to expand...

WELL, it's really not a big deal as far as time and effort, imho it can be done in about a half hour max, taking your time, ... 3 wrenches... one for axle nut, one for axle end, and one for brake stay bolt...

Pro, you have to pull that tire off anyways... what's the big deal?

PLEASE NOTE...
my suggestion/diagnosis is based entirely on what I've seen it the past, combined with your photo...
but, if you would have taken the picture from an angle where the 'gap' around the area where the rear drive alligns with the wheel hub, it would be easier to diagnose...
meaning, if the bike is on the centerstand, and you look at that clearance gap top and bottom, and around the hub, it should be all the same, about 2-3mm (1/16"-1/8"), and when the wheel is flexed side to side, the gap should not vary, or when it's rotated also... if it has contact anywhere around it's circumference, you can bet it's a missing spacer...

9 times out of 10, that spacer stays in place, held inside the drive housing by the inner seal friction, and most folks never have it fall out, or notice it's even there...
when reinstalling it, pre grease the axle shaft full length lightly with bearing grease, slip it with the washer, thru from the outside of the drive housing till its stick out the other side, slip the spacer on the axle, and push the spacer in untill it grips in the inner seal, and slip the axle back an inch to clear the splined section so the wheel goes in.... then shove the axle into the wheel to keep the spacer in place, and thru the wheel so you can slip thopposite side external hat shaped spacer on the shaft, then drop the caliper bracket in between it and the swingarm and finish pushing the axle thru.

no big deal, you can do it all sitting on the ground in a parking lot... which I have done many times for people...  not rocket science.
 
I was about to go pull the wheel back off when I remembered that I had photos. This pic sure looks like the spacer is present and accounted for, so that's cool.
 

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batboy said:
I was about to go pull the wheel back off when I remembered that I had photos. This pic sure looks like the spacer is present and accounted for, so that's cool.
Click to expand...

The spacer tube is not shown in that picture, it would most likely be inside the final drive opening, if I remember my C10 well enough? It is that way on the C14.  I believe if it is somehow left out while assembling, when you torque down the axle nut, the wheel will be pushed against the final drive housing, tight, and the rear wheel will not turn at all? I am thinking that is not the issue?
 
batboy said:
I was about to go pull the wheel back off when I remembered that I had photos. This pic sure looks like the spacer is present and accounted for, so that's cool.
Click to expand...

that is not the spacer, that is the bearing's inner race you see in the photo...
there is however another spacer, inside that wheel hub, between the 2 bearings to space them when being pulled together.

the spacer I speak of, ends up in contact with the bearing race you see, on the drive hub side.

as for when it's missing, and the hubs being pulled together, and preventing wheel rotation, it doesn't always occur, sometimes the splines are worn, and notched, making it seem as if it's tight, and a gap may still be present, but shortly after riding like that, the splines reallign, and wear in further, and the wheel goes tight again.. depends on how much wear was on the splines prior.
But yes, worse case is shown immediatly when the wheel and drive housing close up and pinch.

again, I've seen a few instances of the missing spacer, and the results looked like the tire photo...
but, Avon tires have decreased in quality im my opinion, since the Azaro was 'the best' back in '03..
and even those began having issues... 6k miles on an Avon, is about max, I think the best i got when using them on my C10's was around 6k.. and they were shot. Not shot like the o/p's tho... that is totally shot.  bet that one was throwing sparks going down the road... :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
 
I can see this happening very easily. Torque the rear axle and the wheel is too tight. Think about your old Chevy pickup with tapered wheel bearings and loosen it up a little bit until the wheel turns. I has a cotter pin to keep the nut from coming off. Our bikes do not have tapered bearings. The spacers are on the axle bolt, inside the wheel and drive assembly so you torque up tight on the inner races of all the bearings. The spacers keep everything at the correct places to allow everything to rotate smoothly.
Looking at the OP it looks like the PO put the tire on. Thanks MOB, another thing to look at when you look at a used bike, and the part no. if that is the problem.
 
connie_rider said:
I think this is what your looking for.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/06-Kawasaki-Concours-ZG1000-Rear-Axle/382394558036?hash=item59087de654:g:ydAAAOSwu~FalggJ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/86-Kawasaki-Concours-ZG1000-Rear-Axle-Drive-Spacer/382394568120?epid=1334763753&hash=item59087e0db8:g:VDsAAOSw~~xalhP0

Ride safe, Ted
Click to expand...

if you trust ebay...
no part number is associated with either, just pictures, and as there are 2 different spacers (one inside the rim, between the bearings), who knows...
my response, #15, shows the actual part number...

:great:

surprisingly, the same part is used on EVERY Concours, from 1986 thru current 2018...C14...

$23 from Ron Ayers.
 
I start working on the C-10's suspension tomorrow. Before I work on the forks, I'll pull that rear wheel off and check the axle spacer (final drive side). Reckon those types of things should be checked each time it's reassembled. I'm a newbie, but I'm learning.  :great:
 
batboy said:
I start working on the C-10's suspension tomorrow. Before I work on the forks, I'll pull that rear wheel off and check the axle spacer (final drive side). Reckon those types of things should be check each time it's reassembled. I'm a newbie, but I'm learning.  :great:
Click to expand...

perfect time to completely clean, inspect, and re grease the drive splines.. but don't over grease them... just a nice coating will suffice, use a small bristle brush, like a 'flux' brush.
 
Proliant said:
@MOB ..... crap, more stuff to look at ..... its never ending. I guess I should just resign myself to more wrenching than riding.
Click to expand...
Yeah, it's not like you gotta pull that rear wheel off and look for that spacer anytime soon, you probably got another 5K left on that tar.
 
No part number is associated with either, just pictures, and as there are 2 different spacers (one inside the rim, between the bearings), who knows...

Was intended to be "just pictures" {to help clarify what they are looking for}. :truce:
The spacer in the photo's is the one that fits in the rear drive, not between the bearings in the wheel.
      Looks like the one I'm holding in my hand..

Ride safe, Ted
 
connie_rider said:
No part number is associated with either, just pictures, and as there are 2 different spacers (one inside the rim, between the bearings), who knows...

Was intended to be "just pictures" {to help clarify what they are looking for}. :truce:
The spacer in the photo's is the one that fits in the rear drive, not between the bearings in the wheel.
      Looks like the one I'm holding in my hand..

Ride safe, Ted
Click to expand...

I hear ya, and I understand why you posted the pictures, I included a "pictorial" in my post #15 also, just to show it.;
but always caution about ebay parts, and a 'spacer' sitting on a lift, by itself, doesn't lend itself to my confidence level... the assembled axle photo would, but then who knows... he pulled parts from 2 different year Conni's it seems, an '86 and an '06, and as both the spacers I note "look similar"
it's easy for a seller to 'mix up' parts when they strip down bikes... and if he pulled a wheel apart, and tossed the spacer in a box with other parts, he probably wouldn't know the difference...( they guy has a bazillion things for sale.... but parts from 2 conni's that I can see...)
one is longer... the one I am referring to being correct is
92027 92027-1553 COLLAR,20.2X28X89

the one between the bearings is slightly longer...
92027B 92027-1901 COLLAR,20.2X28X105.5

and the front wheel bearing spacer is similar... by sight....
92027 92027-1545 COLLAR,17X25X92

this should illustrate what I mean about a picture of 'a lonely spacer sitting on a piece of diamond tread' and saying for certain what it really is... buying it, awaiting delivery, and finding it may not be correct...
:'( :'( :'( :mad: ;) ;) ;) ;)

I have boxes-o-parts like that...
along with many other "EBay chunks of Gold" I bought, like :
complete Ninja and Concours carb racks, stuck in a poly bag filled with styrofoam peanuts, and boxed and sent... without the forethought of draining all the float bowls...  messy bag of melted foam covered carbs... a couple sets at that...

or 'pristine ZX Ninja heads, with complete cams and valves, disassembled, wrapped in a bunch of news papers, stuffed in a huge box, loosely filled with crumpled news paper, and shipped cross country...
only to arrive looking like a ball-o-metal parts, with broken and dented edges...in a box that barely held together, even when re-taped and labled as "box repaired by US Postal service, Please examine contents upon receipt"...

:mad: :mad: :mad: :'( :'( :'( :-\ :-\ :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:

I used to love shopping E Bay... ask my wife... she will tell you how fast $5k can be "distributed" thru PayPal..... :rotflmao: :rotflmao: :rotflmao:
 
Well .... after getting back from vacation I took the bike into a shop I trust and they couldn't find anything rubbing or any issues with the spacer etc .... they felt the tire had a manufacturing defect. Avon has been contacted but of course they are unwilling to do anything because of the mileage. In the end I will never purchase another Avon tire. I replaced them with Perelli's and on the short trip home they felt good. Unfortunately, since we are about to have a pretty rockin' storm here in CO a real road test will have to wait. Either way I learned a fairly important lesson and no one was hurt. Plus I learned quite a bit about the rear end mechanicals.
 
Proliant said:
Well .... after getting back from vacation I took the bike into a shop I trust and they couldn't find anything rubbing or any issues with the spacer etc .... they felt the tire had a manufacturing defect. Avon has been contacted but of course they are unwilling to do anything because of the mileage. In the end I will never purchase another Avon tire. I replaced them with Perelli's and on the short trip home they felt good. Unfortunately, since we are about to have a pretty rockin' storm here in CO a real road test will have to wait. Either way I learned a fairly important lesson and no one was hurt. Plus I learned quite a bit about the rear end mechanicals.
Click to expand...

well, seeing as you paid the expense to have that rear end and assembly inspected, and supposedly Avon has "been contacted", and won't do anything about it, maybe have that tire (call the mechanic a.s.a.p. to make sure he doesn't dispose of it tomorrow...) and tell Avon to accept the tire back for inspection, and to pay for shipping also, and a replacement... as that tire is clearly defective... no way possible should you have steel belts showing on one side, and perfectly good tread just opposite of it...
Get your photo of that in their hands... and tell them you plan to make sure all your COG associates see this photo... tell them you are willing to advertise their "quality, and business ethics" free of charge, until it is handled... don't be so eager to offer up mileage, that part is moot... it's a case of a defective tire.

best of luck, and it's good to hear that mechanically your bike is fine and correct.
 
Are you sure you didn't just ride across Nebraska going east with a 40 mph wind out of the north? :)) I kind of thought my tires would look like that after leaning into the wind all afternoon today. ;)
 
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