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Traxxion forks?
- Thread starter nando
- Start date
They are THIS much better, but I can't say if they are THAT much better... :great:
I have the complete AK20 cartridge and spring upgrade and it represents a significant improvement over the stock internals... and the stock forks are not too bad as they come. With the AK20's you get both rebound and compression damping, and single-rate springs that are very well suited for this bike and it's intended performance niche. I have better front end feel, a very solid "planted" composure in cornering, and a more compliant and comfortable ride all around.
Installation is straightforward if you have the right tools -- Traxxion sells a very good fork maintenance kit which I'd highly recommend. There are plenty of posts on this forum showing installation tips and tricks. The only complaint I had was the rebound and compression cartridges are not (always) labeled by Traxxion, so you need to figure out which is which on your own. Traxxion was always helpful and supportive with any questions I pestered them with!
I have the complete AK20 cartridge and spring upgrade and it represents a significant improvement over the stock internals... and the stock forks are not too bad as they come. With the AK20's you get both rebound and compression damping, and single-rate springs that are very well suited for this bike and it's intended performance niche. I have better front end feel, a very solid "planted" composure in cornering, and a more compliant and comfortable ride all around.
Installation is straightforward if you have the right tools -- Traxxion sells a very good fork maintenance kit which I'd highly recommend. There are plenty of posts on this forum showing installation tips and tricks. The only complaint I had was the rebound and compression cartridges are not (always) labeled by Traxxion, so you need to figure out which is which on your own. Traxxion was always helpful and supportive with any questions I pestered them with!
I like the forks. Feels very planted. Really nice at a
fast pace. Only complaint from me is that if entering
a 20 mph or less corner there is a twitch. But its
probably my fault for not correctly setting my
suspension . Just haven't taken the time to do so.
I'm happy now. And after a day or two of tweekin
I bet I'll really love them.
fast pace. Only complaint from me is that if entering
a 20 mph or less corner there is a twitch. But its
probably my fault for not correctly setting my
suspension . Just haven't taken the time to do so.
I'm happy now. And after a day or two of tweekin
I bet I'll really love them.
nando
Crotch Rocket
ripper said:
At 20mph the stock "twitch"...I think its probably the forks flexing. The pressure of the force vector causes the forks to flex. You might want to ask Fred about that.
Traxxion on my Wing was the best thing I have ever bought for a motorcycle. It made that tank handle like if it was another bike. I have the Connie lowered on the rear with a Muzzy and I am not sure how Traxxion forks will work in the front.
nando said:
it's not that much better, ........... IT'S 3 LIGHT-YEARS BETTER!!!!!!!
Complete control, not harsh, stable at 125 in curves, you are already late getting them. I can't believe BigK would put such a pitiful suspension on a motorcycle capable of such speed and acceleration. I went with the 4-way damping adjustable Penske shock in the rear and you should, too. The combo is stable, controlled and plush over sharp bumps.
Colt, in checking with Traxxion, they has several different fork options for this bike. Which one did you go with? The prices ranged from about 300-1200 depending on which fix a person wanted.
nando
Crotch Rocket
My Goldwing traxxion cost around 1500 if I recall...
If/when I put Traxxion on the C14 it will be 'the works'...I will send my tubes to Max and have them re-do the inside with a complete Traxxion set up...it will be great to have that Traxxion quality fork again.
On the Wing, you would not recognize how different that bike rolled with Traxxion; it was an amazing improvement...amazing!
But like I said: Honda is painstakingly cheap on Wing front end problems...yea, problemSSSS with SSSSS...
If/when I put Traxxion on the C14 it will be 'the works'...I will send my tubes to Max and have them re-do the inside with a complete Traxxion set up...it will be great to have that Traxxion quality fork again.
On the Wing, you would not recognize how different that bike rolled with Traxxion; it was an amazing improvement...amazing!
But like I said: Honda is painstakingly cheap on Wing front end problems...yea, problemSSSS with SSSSS...
rcannon409 said:
I got the AK-20 kits with compression damping adjustment in one leg and rebound damping adjustment in the other. Each leg provides both compression and rebound damping, but you can change the compression damping in only one leg and rebound in the other. Yamaha did it on some R1s and it works darn well.
i also went with the Penske 8987 Triple Remote Reservoir shock, too. having had experience with well tuned Ohlins on my Duc, I wanted as much adjustment as I could get, so I could stop bouncing and oscillations but not have my fillings jarred over manhole covers and pavement seams.
It has been a complete success! While I heartily recommend modding both ends at once, I did it with my year-end bonus, making it easier. If you can't do both at once, go with the rear shock first and change the fork oil to one step thicker. The OEM forks are the better of the 2.
BigK should offer my suspension as an option in a "S" model.
stewarth
Scooter
I'll state up front I'm no expect, but during the few trackdays I've completed (ever) on the C14, I'd have to say the suspension performance has been the 1st thing I've questioned. I'm going to up the fork oil in the Spring.
But threads like this and the Ohlins give me serious pause to think if I had the extra cash......but then if did have the cash maybe I would get a lighter trackbike. But if I got a lighter track bike the benifits wouldn't be there on the road trips.....ah the suspension dilemma.
But threads like this and the Ohlins give me serious pause to think if I had the extra cash......but then if did have the cash maybe I would get a lighter trackbike. But if I got a lighter track bike the benifits wouldn't be there on the road trips.....ah the suspension dilemma.
stewarth
Scooter
nando said:
I don't personally know, but my mechanic said they do it on most bikes when servicing forks, my track day instructor suggested it, dave moss might have written about (but that included valves as well) and obviously because it was mentioned on the forum/internet then it must be true.
Worth a try, no investment if I'm having them services anyway after 15K miles.
mcrider007
Bicycle
nando said:
If your goal is a harsh ride then heavier oil in the forks will help achieve that goal.
mcrider007
Bicycle
Stewart said:
The total resistance in the forks is the resistance of the springs plus compression damping. The C14 has very heavy springs (1.2 KG) and using heavier oil is going to increase both the low and high speed compression damping and hamper the forks ability to compress over bumps giving a harsh ride. I have ZX-14 forks on my C14 with 1.0 KG springs and it is a tremendous improvement over the C14 forks.
Taking it to the track is not my thing but you need much heavier springs on the front in a track environment to avoid bottoming under heavy braking. Two ways to avoid bottoming without changing springs are to (1) add oil to the forks creating more air resistance at the end of the stroke, or (2) use heavier oil to slow the fork down and reduce nose dive. The harsh ride you may feel on the street due to heavier springs probably will not be as noticeable at the track because higher speeds makes the front end lighter which in turn unloads the springs to the point they do not have nearly as much resistance to bumps as they would at lower speeds.
Oil weight in a modern cartridge fork is not like we dealt with in our old bikes. Back then, a person could switch between 10, 20, 30 or heavier weights of oil and somewhat change compression and rebound damping. Somewhat, since the oil traveled through big holes in the damper rod.
Now, the fork oil is a thin fluid. Usually somewhere near 5 wt. A change to a 10 weight would be as drastic as changing from 10 wt to 60 in the old days. Maybe even more so.
Now, the fork oil is a thin fluid. Usually somewhere near 5 wt. A change to a 10 weight would be as drastic as changing from 10 wt to 60 in the old days. Maybe even more so.
http://www.traxxion.com/shipping-policy.aspxJS_racer said:
nando
Crotch Rocket
The thing is:
I got lowered rear end....stock front. I wonder how/if those Traxxion tubes would help my ride...
...m not a racer but I do not like the vagueness of the stock when I crank hard turns...I guess I am comparing to my previous RT which cornered like lizard in heat.
I got lowered rear end....stock front. I wonder how/if those Traxxion tubes would help my ride...
...m not a racer but I do not like the vagueness of the stock when I crank hard turns...I guess I am comparing to my previous RT which cornered like lizard in heat.
nando said:
You'll get just what your talking about from lowering just the back end. Doing so kicks the front end out like a chopper. Lowering the front an equal amount is the place to start.
mcrider007
Bicycle
nando said:
There isn't any shot in the dark with lowering the front end because there is not any linkage involved, it's a 1:1 ratio to the change in the height adjusters. If you want to lower the bike, turn the fork's height adjusters counter-clockwise and then change the rear end to get the desired steering geometry.
mcrider007
Bicycle
nando said:
In spite of what the owner's manual says, the adjusters do not preload (compress) the main spring, they compress the top out springs inside the cartridge and change the length of the fork which in turn changes the ride height and steering geometry. It also changes the amount of travel that is available before bottoming. If you wanted to lower the front end without changing the available travel then you would have to raise the forks in the triple clamps.
Try it, you can measure the change in ride height by the change in how much fork tube is exposed at the bottom of the fork.
nando
Crotch Rocket
007,
Per your inspirations I too the lowering kit off and put it back OEM height. I must admit, I liked it better lowered...maybe you can take the chopper from an old guy but you can't take away longer rake...or something like that.
I do admit the bike handles better OEM if you hot-rod in the turns...But it feels more comfortable to me with the lowered butt.
I am gonna put a different lowering kit...ones from Precision Engineering...these may be a more conservative drop.
ON FORKS:The lowering the forks with the bolt alters the pre-load sag. Would that not defeat the purpose of adjusting the sag to fit your weight. If one adjusts the forks to achieve a certain height you might end up bottoming out and front shocks being too soft...or would it be too stiff?...what are your thought on these
Per your inspirations I too the lowering kit off and put it back OEM height. I must admit, I liked it better lowered...maybe you can take the chopper from an old guy but you can't take away longer rake...or something like that.
I do admit the bike handles better OEM if you hot-rod in the turns...But it feels more comfortable to me with the lowered butt.
I am gonna put a different lowering kit...ones from Precision Engineering...these may be a more conservative drop.
ON FORKS:The lowering the forks with the bolt alters the pre-load sag. Would that not defeat the purpose of adjusting the sag to fit your weight. If one adjusts the forks to achieve a certain height you might end up bottoming out and front shocks being too soft...or would it be too stiff?...what are your thought on these
mcrider007
Bicycle
nando said:
I could give a long winded and complex explanation of why you really cannot adjust sag on cartridge forks, just the ride height, but your concern about bottoming is valid and the only way to see if it is a problem is to put a zip tie around the fork tubes or clean the bottom of the tubes so you can see fresh dust marks and go for a ride. If you have less than 25mm of clearance at the bottom of the fork tubes when you get back then you either bottomed or were very close to it. An occasional bottoming under heavy braking is not a reason for concern but at that point you probably should turn the adjusters clockwise to increase the available travel.
mcrider007
Bicycle
nando said:
My C14 forks are off the bike so I was able to take some very precise measurements. The adjuster on top of the forks has 15mm of range. Going from full in to full out lengthens the fork by 10mm, therefore the adjusters are preloading the main spring by 5mm. That is not what I expected to find because it means that there is overlap in spring tension between the main spring and the top out springs. I went to RaceTech.com and sure enough, the top out springs have a rate of .65 KG which explains the 2:1 ratio change.
If your adjusters are currently set to 13mm (per the manual measurement) then you only have 6mm of adjustment left and using all that adjustment would only lower your forks by 4mm, enough to make a difference in steering geometry but not enough to notice when you are putting your foot down. You are going to have to raise the forks in the triple clamps to lower the front end enough to notice a difference. I would use the adjusters to get 3mm and raise the forks 10mm. You could then lower the back end by 13mm to keep your same steering geometry and that will also lower your CG. That doesn't sound like a big difference but I think you will like the results.
UPDATE: I just read your other post and think you are probably lowering the back too much, but if you want to lower the front past 13mm as I have outlined above, you are going to have to do it by decreasing your spacer length....and will have to test the result to make sure you are not bottoming. Before you cut spacers or add a lowering kit to the back, I would lower the front 13 mm as described and then lower the back by going to zero preload, add 15 pounds to each saddlebag, put 15-20 pounds on the back seat to simulate a truck if you don't already have one....and take a test ride and see what additional changes need to be made. Your shock preload adjuster provides up to 10mm of spring preload which translates to about 25-27mm of potential ride height adjustment after you factor in the multiplier effect of the rear linkage.